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[Kumubou]

Geez, that ending was peak SF5.

I'm wondering if Punk actually ran out of juggle points when the super whiffed -- I know trying to do full juggles off of air CC launches can get real wonky because of that.

I don't disagree that Capcom has fucked up the service-style stuff. They wanted to be service and "normal", and they couldn't pull that shit off at all.

But for fighting games, it's about retention and then momentum. You get a wave of people who want to be around for a few months that just drop the game. After you build a base, you grow. At least, that's the only way SFV is going to survive now.

And the past few months have been momentum building. A responsive patch that fixes balance issues (well, most of them..), a better CPT run, a new CFN (despite the goddamn delay), new characters, better communication, and more. Proof is in the pudding, so if that shit doesn't hold up they won't get that install base to grow (and stay). And Capcom is taking this way slower than a developer should. But it'll be a better look once the changes come.

The part I bolded is much more important than you may realize. Successful service-style games are set to update on much more aggressive schedules (monthly or even weekly in some instances, like with a lot of mobile titles) than Capcom is pushing. It gives the impression that Capcom isn't addressing issues, even when they are. They need to be much more agile in regards to communicating and addressing issues, but I also think that's something that's more a systemic cultural issue that would need to be addressed.

I do think SF5 can be salvaged in some way even now, but it's going to take a investment of time and resources that I don't think Capcom is willing or able to put in.

 

[Prism Sentence]

It's nice to see a black man completely dominate in SF BTW. IIRC, it's been a long time coming. I will enjoy this while it lasts with a black power fist thrust towards the heavens that will penetrate the swollen belly of the modern Trump-era, spilling the writhing maggots of injustice and bigotry into a Neo-gaijin's lap.

Or something.

PAD POWER!!

 

[Ninjimbo]

People want their DaiGOAT, Mago "2D Gawd" and Tokido Da Murdaface to do well in SFV. Which is understandable and I get they have fans but if they are truly gods of SF then they will adapt and perform well in SFV like the rest of the world.

How would an arcade release help those guys? I think people just want Japan to have new faces in tournaments and have some semblance of a scene over there. Historically, some of their best players came through the arcades since consoles didn't have online. There's nothing wrong with giving people more venues to access the game.

It's about nurturing an environment for the game to thrive in. If an arcade version can make the game more popular over there, they should do one. It benefits everybody.

But whatever. I don't understand this Japan vs USA thing.

 

[jett]

Geez, that ending was peak SF5.

I'm wondering if Punk actually ran out of juggle points when the super whiffed -- I know trying to do full juggles off of air CC launches can get real wonky because of that.


The part I bolded is much more important than you may realize. Successful service-style games are set to update on much more aggressive schedules (monthly or even weekly in some instances, like with a lot of mobile titles) than Capcom is pushing. It gives the impression that Capcom isn't addressing issues, even when they are. They need to be much more agile in regards to communicating and addressing issues, but I also think that's something that's more a systemic cultural issue that would need to be addressed.

I do think SF5 can be salvaged in some way even now, but it's going to take a investment of time and resources that I don't think Capcom is willing or able to put in.

Successful service-style games invest a heck of a lot more money into their product than Capcom is seemingly doing, too. SFV is in a stuck between two hard places situation. Not successful enough to invest money into it, can't grow much because Capcom won't invest money into it. A year later and the servers are still trash. That says it all.

 

[Dahbomb]

Best way to get better Japanese talent is to hold more tournaments in Japan for the CPT.

Problem with that is there are issues running tournaments in Japan for cash prizes and stuff or so I have heard.

 

[Kadey]

How would an arcade release help those guys? I think people just want Japan to have new faces in tournaments and have some semblance of a scene over there. Historically, some of their best players came through the arcades since consoles didn't have online. There's nothing wrong with giving people more venues to access the game.

It's about nurturing an environment for the game to thrive in. If an arcade version can make the game more popular over there, they should do one. It benefits everybody.

But whatever. I don't understand this Japan vs USA thing.

Exactly. Well said.

Point is to get more people to play and propel the scene as a whole. Japan gets arcade release, more concentrated play, comes up with tech and that benefits the rest of the world as well.

And when Japan still gets bodied there is no excuse.

 

[Boke1879]

Question. Do you guys think Marvel has a similar tournament circuit like this?

 

[Dahbomb]

Question. Do you guys think Marvel has a similar tournament circuit like this?

Yipes was hinting that it might.

Talking about Marvel Infinite here which will be released in September.

 

[jett]

Exactly. Well said.

Point is to get more people to play and propel the scene as a whole. Japan gets arcade release, more concentrated play, comes up with tech and that benefits the rest of the world as well.

Release SFV on mobile, that'll get Japan to play the game.

 

[Lulubop]

Question. Do you guys think Marvel has a similar tournament circuit like this?

def

 

[The Lone Dragon]

Around 34k viewers during GF that's not bad.

I saw 38.8k at the highest near the end of Haitani vs. Punk.

I forgot to screenshot it. Seems low but it was a very early timeslot so maybe that explains it.

Peak was around 45k, actually (don't forget the official language restreams).
Looks healthy to me. Especially with the earlier time slot.

Smash peaked around 43k.

 

[DunpealD]

It may not change tournament outcome but it would give them more opportunities to play with each other and get better. So many SFIV players didn't pick up the game for that reason. They like their arcade hangouts.

I don't care about region, I care about super high level play. Any region needs something to get better give them it.

Same here. I don't care who wins, as long as they are at their peak and so far it's no secret that the lack of arcade release did stiffle the development of the japanese SFV scene.

Nevertheless it's great to see the next generation stepping up, especially for America.
Du and Punk are currently my favorite US Players, no doubt.

 

[Anth0ny]

Did the arcade release of SFIV lose money for capcom?

 

[Prism Sentence]

How would an arcade release help those guys? I think people just want Japan to have new faces in tournaments and have some semblance of a scene over there. Historically, some of their best players came through the arcades since consoles didn't have online. There's nothing wrong with giving people more venues to access the game.

It's about nurturing an environment for the game to thrive in. If an arcade version can make the game more popular over there, they should do one. It benefits everybody.

But whatever. I don't understand this Japan vs USA thing.

You really are underestimating the capacity of the arcade culture to nurture and produce top quality fighting game talent. Imagine if you could play SFV online, with no lag, and every time you lost, you'd have to pay a dollar to play the person that beat you again. And you could see his/her face. It seems like a little thing, but it makes a big difference in how people approach fighting games psychologically and sociologically.

The Japan vs USA thing is in the DNA of Fighting Games and the arcade roots are a large part of it. There's no animosity in it, but there's a justifiable amount of pride involved.

 

[kirblar]

Did the arcade release of SFIV lose money for capcom?

Of course not. The issue with SFV is that Sony wanted everyone in the same pool since they were helping fund the game.

 

[Boke1879]

Yipes was hinting that it might.

Talking about Marvel Infinite here which will be released in September.

def

Good. Because I would hope Capcom learned from their mistakes and MvC:I has the potential to deliver a better product for the tournament scene.

Marvel at least one twitter definitely seems to be promoting the game and I'm sure the cash prizes could be pretty good if Marvel invests in the game.

 

[Kumubou]

Successful service-style games invest a heck of a lot more money into their product than Capcom is seemingly doing, too. SFV is in a stuck between two hard places situation. Not successful enough to invest money into it, can't grow much because Capcom won't invest money into it. A year later and the servers are still trash. That says it all.

Honestly, I think Capcom needs to either shit or get off the pot. If the game is recoverable (and there's an argument to it that it is the case, given the game's history) then they need to put more money into it. If it's not, then they just need to kill the whole thing. I find it hard to believe that the approach they're taking now is optimal for them in any way... but that's before taking any kind of opportunity cost into account.

Best way to get better Japanese talent is to hold more tournaments in Japan for the CPT.

Problem with that is there are issues running tournaments in Japan for cash prizes and stuff or so I have heard.

The issue with Japanese tournaments (to my knowledge, anyway) is that event runners can't have people pay entry fees that go into a pot. Event organizers can give away cash prizes (and both ArcSys and Sega have done this in the past), but they have to be added by a sponsor, not the players itself. So Capcom not giving away any money in Japan is at least in part due to Capcom Japan being cheap. Whereas in the US, I am under the understanding that it is legal for tournaments in most states for people to put in entry fees into the pot as they are seen as contests of skill (which are allowed) and not luck (which would fall under gambling laws). This is also why money matches are legal in most instances (it would literally be treated a two-person tournament), but side betting on them is not.

(*I am not a lawyer, but this is something I have gotten legal advice on in the past. You take any advice at your own risk, blah blah tomatoes.)

 

[Kadey]

Where is Uryo? Where is Super Santoru man who called out EVO champ Luffy and bodied him with a bad match up? Where is Ojisan? Where is Wao? Etc, etc. Those guys were entertaining as hell. Arcade release would bring many of them back.

 

[Malice215]

SFV has solid gameplay. It's the rest of the game surrounding it that sucks.

How would an arcade release help those guys?

Because they would always have access to play and train against the best players daily without having to deal with online or inviting people over to play offline in cramp living spaces. Now the advantages they have for other fighting games they no longer have in SFV because of the global release and no arcade version.

Question. Do you guys think Marvel has a similar tournament circuit like this?

They could easily add it to a circuit along with existing events for SFV, and there's already a circuit for UMVC3 in preparation for MVCI. It really depends on how much money Sony/Marvel want to throw at it.

 

[mbpm1]

Left behind

 

[Xeteh]

Xian is so dirty.

 

[Kadey]

Also I think Capcom should add more to the game. Season three they should consider another mechanic and add multiple supers and v-triggers. At this point adding more characters is getting stale.

 

[NastyBook]

Where is Uryo? Where is Super Santoru man who called out EVO champ Luffy and bodied him with a bad match up? Where is Ojisan? Where is Wao? Etc, etc. Those guys were entertaining as hell. Arcade release would bring many of them back.

Why should they be catered to? Why can't they adjust to a way of playing that other countries have been doing for years?

 

[mbpm1]

They don't have the resources for that

 

[MrCarter]

Successful service-style games invest a heck of a lot more money into their product than Capcom is seemingly doing, too. SFV is in a stuck between two hard places situation. Not successful enough to invest money into it, can't grow much because Capcom won't invest money into it. A year later and the servers are still trash. That says it all.

It's strange because if they did want to make more money they would create more content and DLC every month but it seems like what they have works for them. I think Capcom do care and invest money though, if that wasn't the case we wouldn't be getting a huge update on CFN that fixes and improves a lot of key issues the game has. Right now, it's the most played FG on steam (and I assume PS4 too) and I think with better servers and more content they can certainly sustain and grow that even further.

 

[JayEH]

Also I think Capcom should add more to the game. Season three they should consider another mechanic and add multiple supers and v-triggers. At this point adding more characters is getting stale.

They probably don't want to invest any more into the game than they have to but new mechanics are sorely needed.

 

[DunpealD]

SFV has solid gameplay. It's the rest of the game surrounding it that sucks.

On that note, it's pretty ironic. Because as an arcade game those issues wouldn't even be much of a factor.

 

[Tripon]

Capcom has at least a couple of characters they are working on that isn't in this season pass, so they haven't thrown in the towel.

 

[MrCarter]

Capcom has at least a couple of characters they are working on that isn't in this season pass, so they haven't thrown in the towel.

I heard rumours Sagat is coming this year. Hopefully.

 

[Lulubop]

I heard rumours Sagat is coming this year. Hopefully.

I mean Season 3 probably starts in December again.

 

[Kashiwaba]

I mean Season 3 probably starts in December again.

Why are they not giving us Decapre? when she is 70~80% ready from what we've seen in story mode

 

[mbpm1]

I heard rumours Sagat is coming this year. Hopefully.

I've heard it will be next year if anything

Why are they not giving us Decapre? when she is 70~80% ready from what we've seen in story mode

they still remember what infiltration did with her and are figuring out how to make that impossible.

 

[peter0611]

Now it will be interesting to see where Punk stands by the end of the year. This is not an unfamiliar scenario, with a player absolutely dominating.

One thing I admire about the Japanese and other Asian players is their perseverance and agility to adapt after getting curb stomped by something new. They are willing to learn from their mistakes and put in the effort. And work together as a community.

I'm also happy for how well Justin performed. Apparently he's trying to model his Karin play after Punk, in terms of pressure and offense. And Alex Myers and CJ have really legit Cammys.

 

[Ninjimbo]

Also I think Capcom should add more to the game. Season three they should consider another mechanic and add multiple supers and v-triggers. At this point adding more characters is getting stale.

I'm down for more options. More defensive options at least. Right now it feels like you're screwed if your opponent gets one hit it in. I liked KnuckleDu's suggestion of changing that dynamic to maybe two or three. Idk.

I just would like to see more strategies than get your opponent to the wall and start pressing buttons.

 

[MrCarter]

Why are they not giving us Decapre? when she is 70~80% ready from what we've seen in story mode

Probably around 50%. She's still missing a lot of stuff like CA, V-Trigger, win poses etc.

 

[Ronin Ray]

What's funny is that after watching a bunch of Japanese streams, a lot of young players are seemingly as good as their older counterparts. You are damn right about more CPT events need to happen there.

I agree with this. I won't to see there young talent

 

[Kadey]

Why should they be catered to? Why can't they adjust to a way of playing that other countries have been doing for years?

If you are true competitor you want your competition to be at their best. That's just plain and simple. Also as someone who wants SF to be the big boss of the FGC you'll want it to thrive everywhere.

 

[Ronin Ray]

Why should they be catered to? Why can't they adjust to a way of playing that other countries have been doing for years?

Then there should be more majors in other countries to even the playing field. America always has the biggest majors and other countries have to come here and we don't get to see a lot of there younger talent. Evo should move around like the Olympics . America always gets a home field advantage .

 

[jett]

Honestly, I think Capcom needs to either shit or get off the pot. If the game is recoverable (and there's an argument to it that it is the case, given the game's history) then they need to put more money into it. If it's not, then they just need to kill the whole thing. I find it hard to believe that the approach they're taking now is optimal for them in any way... but that's before taking any kind of opportunity cost into account.

It's strange because if they did want to make more money they would create more content and DLC every month but it seems like what they have works for them. I think Capcom do care and invest money though, if that wasn't the case we wouldn't be getting a huge update on CFN that fixes and improves a lot of key issues the game has. Right now, it's the most played FG on steam (and I assume PS4 too) and I think with better servers and more content they can certainly sustain and grow that even further.

I think they're doing the bare minimum to keep it going, keeping the faithful niche they got alive. Maybe creating DLC costumes is enough to offset whatever maintenance costs the game has.

Like MrCarter said though they did take a major step by announcing plans to rework CFN, although in classic Capcom fashion it got delayed. I honestly have no idea what Capcom's longterm plan for the game is. Maybe they're content with what they have and don't want to take any further risks. Maybe they're tied by whatever contract they signed with Sony and can't release a new SKU that could breathe new life at retail.

Also I think Capcom should add more to the game. Season three they should consider another mechanic and add multiple supers and v-triggers. At this point adding more characters is getting stale.

Maybe they could try asking Sony for a second round of funding.

 

[Kadey]

I'll throw in a lot of money for a kickstarter if Capcom needs it to expand the game further.

 

[mbpm1]

They would just spend that money on more costumes be real

I can't even say it would be a wrong decision either

 

[Zackat]

Why wouldn't Marvel just be another game on the CPT?

Does Marvel Games want in on esports? I guess everyone does lately.

 

[NastyBook]

If you are true competitor you want your competition to be at their best. That's just plain and simple. Also as someone who wants SF to be the big boss of the FGC you'll want it to thrive everywhere.

So where has that put FGC competition outside of Japan over the years then?

 

[Ninjimbo]

I'll throw in a lot of money for a kickstarter if Capcom needs it to expand the game further.

I think I would do this too tbh. I like this game a lot and I'm a relative newcomer to SF.

 

[Kadey]

So where has that put FGC competition outside of Japan over the years then?

None of them live on a island where 99% of the housing is smaller than my closet. And this doesn't just apply to Japan either. If there is any given opportunity for a scene to get better in some way it should happen. Japan has been the mecca for fighting games so long they are always in the spot light.

 

[Wallach]

just catching the rebroadcast but it felt SO good to watch xian get absolutely shit on in both winners and losers finals.

Punk literally stomped his ass so hard it knocked him back into season 1, and he still chased him into that timeline and whooped his ass even harder.

That's some shit to think about on the plane ride home.

 

[atomic moth]

it felt SO good to watch xian get absolutely shit on in both winners and losers finals.

Why's that?

 

[Kashiwaba]

Why's that?

Going back to fang was stupid, it felt desperate m

 

[KingBroly]

WOW

2 CA misses

 

[Wallach]

lmao the last round of this tournament was hilarious

Why's that?

It's mostly just the arc he's taken with the character.

There's a pretty serious question about what happens if you are gonna play Ibuki against the other absolute best players in the world and you can't rely on Ibuki's ridiculous setups. If the answer is that you get curbstomped then frankly I hope you catch it that bad.

I hope he either figures out how to step up her neutral game or move on. I don't care to see a player as good as Xian stuck on some Marn shit.