Nerdkiller
Membeur
Warning: ALL CAPS and third person speak.
http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/05/24/civil-war-spider-man-2-and-the-dangers-of-assumed-empathy
These days, there's been the notion that Marvel movies have become safe, rounded affairs that are more interested in creating fun characters instead of compelling ones on top of that. And while that hasn't always been true, it is an approach that Marvel has become more and more increasingly reliant on. And while I have yet to see Civil War for myself, I feel as though the article at hand best describes whatever problems these movies had after Phase 1 on a character and storytelling level. I know for a fact that I really started to notice the stink after viewing Age of Ultron, which as the article describes:
And the article also best articulates why I think Spiderman 2 is, and will probably continue to be in my opinion the absolute pinnacle of superhero movies for the foreseeable future. And while I have little doubt that Homecoming will be a good movie (especially after the last two cack handed flicks), that roundedness that continues to persist in Marvel's features will probably prevent me from calling it a truly great one.
But I really hope that all this is only a result of Ike Perlmutter and his involvement up until recently in the movie front. Maybe now we might get something with a little more edge now that he's reduced to just doing television (then again, he is overseeing Daredevil, and Luke Cage seems especially ballsy judging from the photos released). Who knows at this point. All I know is that Marvel needs to step up their game and make great characters instead of just great jokers.
And a few more exerts.
http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/05/24/civil-war-spider-man-2-and-the-dangers-of-assumed-empathy
These days, there's been the notion that Marvel movies have become safe, rounded affairs that are more interested in creating fun characters instead of compelling ones on top of that. And while that hasn't always been true, it is an approach that Marvel has become more and more increasingly reliant on. And while I have yet to see Civil War for myself, I feel as though the article at hand best describes whatever problems these movies had after Phase 1 on a character and storytelling level. I know for a fact that I really started to notice the stink after viewing Age of Ultron, which as the article describes:
The bolded in particular is something that best describes how I thought about the conflict between Cap and Stark in Ultron. Particularly when Cap says that "win a war before it starts" line. It all came off as a resounding thud for me by the end of the feature, and judging from the article, it looks as if I might not see anything that expands on that further in Civil War, despite the movie supposedly being all about that.Film Crit Hulk said:GREAT MOMENTS HAVE EVER SO SLIGHTLY BEEN REPLACED WITH GREAT JOKES. ACTUAL CONFLICTS HAVE BEEN REPLACED WITH GENERAL FEELINGS. AND TO LOOK AT THE DOCTOR OCTOPUS APPROACH, YOU'LL NOTICE TOO THAT SO LITTLE ATTENTION IS PAID TO THE VILLAINS OR THEIR STORIES SINCE THE SECOND PHASE STARTED. AND THAT'S BECAUSE THE VILLAINS ARE NOW CONSIDERED MERE OBSTACLES TO THE CHARACTERS "DOING WHAT THEY WANT / BEING THEMSELVES." MEANING IT'S NO LONGER ABOUT VILLAINS BEING OBSTACLES TO THEIR GROWTH, THE VILLAINS ARE JUST OBSTACLES TO THE ENTERTAINMENT. SO THEY TAKE A BACK SEAT AND BECOME BORING FUDDY DUDDIES THAT THE HEROES CAN EFFECTIVELY MAKE FACES AT.
And the article also best articulates why I think Spiderman 2 is, and will probably continue to be in my opinion the absolute pinnacle of superhero movies for the foreseeable future. And while I have little doubt that Homecoming will be a good movie (especially after the last two cack handed flicks), that roundedness that continues to persist in Marvel's features will probably prevent me from calling it a truly great one.
But I really hope that all this is only a result of Ike Perlmutter and his involvement up until recently in the movie front. Maybe now we might get something with a little more edge now that he's reduced to just doing television (then again, he is overseeing Daredevil, and Luke Cage seems especially ballsy judging from the photos released). Who knows at this point. All I know is that Marvel needs to step up their game and make great characters instead of just great jokers.
And a few more exerts.
So yeah...what do you think?Film Crit Hulk said:THERE IS A FAIRLY COMMONPLACE SENTIMENT AT THIS POINT AND IT GOES SOMETHING LIKE THIS: "WOW! IN JUST 15 MINUTES, CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR DID WITH SPIDER-MAN WHAT ALL OF THE MOVIES COULDN'T DO WITH THEIR ENTIRE RUNTIMES!"
FIRST OFF, HOW DARE YOU ALL BESMIRCH THE GOOD NAME OF SPIDER-MAN 2! BUT DON'T WORRY, HULK GETS THE INTENT OF THE STATEMENT. FOR IT IS TRUE IN THE SENSE THAT EVERY MOMENT SPIDER-MAN OR PETER PARKER IS ON SCREEN IN THIS FILM, THEY GOT EVERYTHING "RIGHT" IN TERMS OF HIS CHARACTERIZATION. SO HOW DID THEY PULL OFF THIS FEAT?
... HULK THINKS IT'S BECAUSE THEY WERE ACTUALLY TRYING TO DO IT.
THAT MAY SOUND MEAN OR SIMPLISTIC, BUT IT ACTUALLY GETS TO THE HEART OF WHAT MAKES THESE LATER STAGE MARVEL MOVIES BOTH WORK AND... WELL... NOT WORK.
***
FROM THE VERY BEGINNING, PHASE TWO BECAME THIS WEIRD, CYCLICAL EXERCISE IN "LOTS OF THINGS HAPPENING" BUT "NOTHING ACTUALLY HAPPENING." BAD GUYS WOULD SHOW UP. CHARACTERS WOULD SEEM TO STRUGGLE WITH THINGS. BUT IT WAS ALL SURFACE-LEVEL STUFF. MERE LIP SERVICE TO THE IDEA OF CHANGE. ENDLESS YET TEMPORARY INVERSIONS ALL BEFORE RESETTING THE TABLE WITH EVERYTHING STILL IN PLACE (OR AT LEAST PROMISING IT THAT WOULD BE TO MAKE THE AUDIENCE FEEL BETTER). AND IT WAS DONE COMPLETELY HAPHAZARDLY. HECK, ENTIRE CHARACTER RECONCILIATION MOMENTS WOULD BE PUT IN AS POST-CREDIT STINGERS INSTEAD OF IN THE ACTUAL GOD DAMN MOVIE.
NOW, HULK REALIZES THAT MANY PEOPLE WOULD ARGUE THE TABLE-RESETTING APPROACH "MAKES SENSE" FOR THE MOVIES BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN TELLING COMIC BOOK STORIES LIKE THIS FOR DECADES NOW. WE HAVE THE ESTABLISHED CHARACTERS AND EVERY WEEK WE GO ON THEIR ADVENTURES, RIGHT? SO WE MIGHT AS WELL JUST DO THAT WITH THE MOVIES TOO!
BUT MOVIES ARE INHERENTLY MORE COMPLEX THAN THAT. THEY HAVE DIFFERENT NARRATIVE DEMANDS AND IN FACT, TEND TO THRIVE ON ENGAGING THOSE DEMANDS. REMEMBER, THERE'S A REASON "THE TRIALS" IS ALWAYS THE MOST PRECARIOUS AND MEANINGLESS SPOT IN THE OL' HERO'S JOURNEY. BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO MAKE IT BE MORE THAN MERE WHEEL-SPINNING WITH EXTERNAL CONFLICTS. THE CHARACTERS HAVE TO ACTUALLY FACE THEIR FAULTS AND LEARN LESSONS. THERE HAS TO BE SOME WEIGHT AND HEFT TO THE DECISIONS. THE RULES OF BASIC DRAMA STATE THEY HAVE TO HAVE CHOICES AND CONSEQUENCES. AND WHEN YOU DON'T REALLY DO THAT? THEN THE CHARACTERS AROUND THEM MOST DEFINITELY HAVE TO AND TAKE THE BRUNT OF THE STORYTELLING WEIGHT. GOING BACK TO RAIMI'S SPIDER-MAN 2. THINK ABOUT HOW MUCH OF THAT FILM WAS DEDICATED TO THE STORY / CHARACTER ARC OF DOCTOR OCTOPUS. THINK ABOUT HOW THE FILM WAS REALLY HIS STORY, AND THINK ABOUT THE WAY IT CLEARLY AFFECTED PETER PARKER AND HELPED INFORM HIS OWN ARC. TO MAKE THE POINT CLEAR, THERE ISN'T MUCH THAT'S "NEW" IN TERMS OF PETER'S STRUGGLES WITH HEROISM HERE, BUT THE FILM ENGAGED IN THE SAME QUESTIONS WITH PROFOUND SUCCESS BECAUSE IT CLEARLY DEMONSTRATED CAUSE AND EFFECT WITH REGARDS TO HIS CHOICES. AND AS SUCH, THE STORY / CHARACTERIZATION ENDS UP FEELING EARNED, PERSONAL, AND REAL. SUCH IS THE NATURE OF SPINNING ANY GOOD YARN, ESPECIALLY WITH ESTABLISHED CHARACTERS.
BUT INSTEAD OF SPINNING YARNS, THESE NEW MARVEL MOVIES HAVE BECAME EXHIBITIONS.
***
HULK'S SORRY BUT WE CAN'T TELL STORIES LIKE THAT AND EXPECT THIS WHOLE SHEBANG TO LAST. YES, ONCE THE VISION SHOWS UP HE'S A CHARMING, WEIRD, AND FUN CHARACTER IN HIS OWN WAY, BUT THERE'S NOTHING THAT STICKS OR MAKES US TRULY CARE ABOUT HIM BEYOND THAT PLAYFUL CHARACTERIZATION. IN FACT, TRYING TO DO ANYTHING THAT GETS IN THE WAY OF THE CHARMING / FUN ANGLE WOULD ONLY HURT MARVEL'S WHOLE "LIKABILITY" THING, SO THEY NOW TEND TO STAY AWAY FROM THAT TOO. WHICH MEANS WE ARE AT THE POINT WHERE MARVEL MOVIES OPERATE FROM A POINT OF BELIEF WHERE ACTUAL DRAMATIC STORYTELLING EFFECTIVELY GETS IN THE WAY OF THE PLACATING "STORY' FORMATS THAT BEST SERVE FOR FUN CHARACTER EXHIBITION.
***
BECAUSE THIS ALL BRINGS US TO THE SECOND AND FAR MORE STORY-CRITICAL REASON FOR WHY THIS ENTIRE CONFLICT TOOK PLACE: THE WINTER SOLDIER HIMSELF, BUCKY BARNES. AND WHAT TRULY DAMNS THAT STORY DECISION, HECK, WHAT EXISTS AS THE TRUE CARDINAL SIN OF THE WHOLE MOVIE AND PRETTY MUCH THE ENTIRE MCU IN GENERAL RIGHT NOW, IS THAT THEY DON'T DO ANY ACTUAL CHARACTER WORK FOR BUCKY. MEANING THEY DON'T REMEMBER WHAT THEY DID IN THOSE SUPER FUNCTIONAL SPIDERMAN SCENES...
THEY DON'T WORK FOR YOUR EMPATHY, THEY ASSUME IT.
***
WHICH MAY BE EXACTLY WHY THEY ARE TRYING TO FILL THE MOVIES WITH SO MANY OTHER NEW CHARACTERS. WHICH IS, IN TURN, PROBABLY THE REASON BLACK PANTHER AND LIL BABY SPIDERMAN (BEST SAID LIKE LIL BABY JESUS) ARE THE MOST EXCITING PEOPLE IN CIVIL WAR. IT'S NOT JUST THAT THEY'RE "NEW," IT'S THAT THEY'RE THE ONLY TWO CHARACTERS WHO SEEM TO HAVE ANYTHING HAPPENING ON A STORY ECONOMY LEVEL. MEANWHILE, IT SEEMS LIKE EVERYONE ELSE IS WORKING OFF ASSUMED EMPATHY. CAN HULK JUST STATE AGAIN THAT ANT-MAN IS LITERALLY THERE FOR NO REASON? THEY KNOW THIS TOO, SO THEY READILY CALL ATTENTION TO IT IN ORDER TO MAKE THINGS MORE CHARMING. TO WORK WITH THE FACT THAT YOU OF COURSE LOVE SEEING THEM ALL TOGETHER SO MUCH. THAT YOU WANT TO SEE THEM FIGHT. THAT YOU WANT THEM TO CLASH TOGETHER THE WAY YOU WOULD FIGHT WITH ACTION FIGURES, BUT AGAIN, IT ALL JUST REACHES THIS CRUX WHERE: YOU CAN NEVER STOP LIKING ANY OF THEM. AND EVERYTHING HAS TO BE MEANINGLESS IN ORDER FOR THAT TO BE TRUE. ALAS, EVEN THE FUN SPIDER-MAN SUBPLOT IS A NOTHING MORE THAN AN EXCUSE TO PUT SPIDER-MAN IN IT... BUT THAT'S BECAUSE EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS MOVIE IS AN EXCUSE TO DO "______."
***
TO GO FROM CHAMPIONING WHAT MARVEL WAS DOING TO GLANCING AROUND THE ROOM TO SEE WHO ELSE CAN SMELL THE POOP. AND IN CASE IT ISN'T OBVIOUS, ALL OF THESE STANDARDS COMES FROM THE FACT THAT HULK LOVES THE MARVEL UNIVERSE. HULK GREW UP READING THE COMICS, WATCHING THE OLD TV SHOWS, ALL THAT STUFF. AND TO GROW UP AND SEE THE WAY ALL THESE CHARACTERS CAME TO THE FOREFRONT OF THE POP LEXICON IS, AS A FAN, A DREAM REALIZED. THE HIGH POINT OF WHICH IS PROBABLY THE AVENGERS, WHICH IS A NOT SO MUCH A GOOD MOVIE AS IT IS A SPECTACULAR CONCLUSION
AND SINCE THEN, MARVEL HAS FIGURED THIS WEIRD WAY OF MAKING SERVICEABLE MOVIES BY TAKING THE LESSONS OF THAT LAST ACT AND WORKING BACKWARD TO EMULATE IT AT ALL TIMES, BUT NOT DOING THE REAL WORK THAT GETS YOU THERE. MEANING IT HAS BECOME THE STUDIO'S WEIRD QUEST TO REMOVE THE 'BAD SCENES" AKA THE SCENES AUDIENCES DON'T "LIKE" AND AS SUCH IT HAS INDOCTRINATED ONE OF THE WEIRDEST WORKING MODUS OPERANDIS HULK CAN THINK OF. THIS IS THE GENUINE PROCESS BTW: THEY PUT TOGETHER INOFFENSIVE CHARACTER-CENTRIC SCRIPTS WHERE NO ONE SEES THE HUGE STORY PROBLEMS ON THE PAGE (PEOPLE ARE BAD AT READING SCRIPTS ACROSS THE BOARD). THEY HIRE GREAT ACTORS. THEY PUT ACTION SCENES INTO SECOND UNIT HANDS. THEY SHOOT THE SUCKER THEN GET INTO THE EDIT. AND BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE BETTER WITH SEEING MOVIES THEN THEY ARE AT READING SCRIPTS, THEY THEN REALIZE THE STORY DOESN'T WORK. SO THEY RE-SHOOT HALF THE MOVIE (THIS IS ALL PLANNED BEFOREHAND) AND INCLUDE A LOT OF THE STUFF THEY THOUGHT THEY NEEDED IN THE FIRST PLACE TO MAKE IT WORK. THEY THEN TAILOR THE FINAL PRODUCT TO BE AS ROUND AND SAFE AS POSSIBLE. THE MOVIE IS THEN GREETED WITH EITHER WITH A SHRUG OR A HEARTY LAUGH AND A SLOW SLIDE INTO FORGETTING.
THE END RESULT OF THIS IS RATHER THAN GROW TO UNDERSTAND THE MEDIUM AND WHAT MAKE PHASE ONE FILMS SUCCESSFUL ON A DEEPER LEVEL (ALONG WITH ALL THOSE PESKY UNLIKABLE ASPECTS), THEY INSTEAD LEARNED HOW TO EXPLOIT THIS MEDIUM TO GET THE RIGHT AUDIENCE-PLACATING RESULT.
HULK KNOWS THIS SOUNDS SUPER CYNICAL. AND WHO KNOWS, MAYBE THEY'RE RIGHT. HULK GENUINELY WISHES HULK COULD ABIDE BY ALL THIS AND GET ON BOARD AND AGREE THAT THE RESULT IS CHARMING ENOUGH TO MERIT VALIDITY... BUT IT'S JUST NOT ENOUGH FOR HULK. HULK LOOKS BACK AT SPIDER-MAN 2 AND SEES ACTUAL STORYTELLING AND ITS BEAUTIFUL EFFECT. AND EVEN WITH MARVEL'S SUCCESS, HULK JUST SEES IT ALL DISSIPATING SO SLOWLY, EVEN IF IT'S TO THE TUNE OF HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND GENERAL ACCLAIM. JUST AS HULK CAN READILY ADMIT THAT THE PROBABLE WORST RESULT OF ALL THIS IS PROBABLY NOTHING MORE THAN A SQUANDERED STORYTELLING OPPORTUNITY.
BUT WHEN IT COMES TO THAT STORYTELLING, HULK IS CERTAIN: THESE CHARACTERS HAVE STOPPED MAKING ANY KIND OF REAL CHOICES THAT MATTER. TO THEM. OR TO THE WORLD AROUND THEM.