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Final Fantasy XII The Zodiac Age |OT| You Had One Job!
- Thread starter FlutterPuffs
- Start date
I've read that Ito didn't want to let people find all that stuff, because it is supposed to be "your" playthrough in that regard. It's still the worst thing about FF12 that you have to spawn treasure chests for spells and good equipment etc. with most of the treasures having shit in them.
In the case of the sewerway there is a clue for that in one of the houses in the underground of Rabanastre. So that is something which you can also find for real.
neoism
Member
lol strategy guide OR just us the internet like everyone...
SkylineRKR
Member
Those sidequests are ridiculous. That woman at the fountain who leaves for another place. Good luck finding her without a guide. Or Otto, who the fuck was Otto?
They aren't bad per se, they are kind of unique. But they do scream "buy our shitty Brady guide". Which was a thing back then. FFIX's Ultimate weapons were probably as vague, even with pics it was still hard.
They aren't bad per se, they are kind of unique. But they do scream "buy our shitty Brady guide". Which was a thing back then. FFIX's Ultimate weapons were probably as vague, even with pics it was still hard.
Vincent Grayson
Member
I've never seen anyone provide any actual evidence that game designers *ever* make decisions based on selling guides, much less that it happens/happened "all the time".
It's just dumb design choices centered on stupid notions like "it's fun to hide secrets that are obscure as fuck".
It's just dumb design choices centered on stupid notions like "it's fun to hide secrets that are obscure as fuck".
pelicansurf
Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
Gotta just go with one gambit or two I guess depending on how many remedies you have:
Ally:Any = Use Esuna (or Remedy)
It'll just use esuna/remedy whenever it actually does something aka when anyone has any status effect. Kind of a mana sink but mana comes easy for the most part. Just have someone who isn't a primary mage do it.
These Rare monsters that only spawn based on clock timer can go die in a fire. Such a stupid thing. I mean they're easy enought to spawn, but it's so annoying and feels like extremely poor design.
I actually remembered Otto. I talked to everyone in Old Archades on the way up and the name stuck. that women by the fountain though. I gave up and looked it up
I actually remembered Otto. I talked to everyone in Old Archades on the way up and the name stuck. that women by the fountain though. I gave up and looked it up
LordOfLore
Banned
Ashe(Uhlan/Time): Quickening 50 or 125? Just have her in Uhlan currently.
There's a letter that tells you the order of the gates. There's a lot of information about the game hiding behind the kill X amount of monsters, too.
semiconscious
Member
while i agree it's purely design choices, i'm not so sure it's 'dumb', or unfair. some developers just used to be into this kinda 'hidden goodie' stuff, which's only a 'problem' now, with the advent of trophies/achievements. iow, back then, it was understood that we weren't supposed to find everything, which, imo, just added to replay value, & was part of these games' charm
...
ST2K
Member
So, I beat it. And I'm a bit baffled. Some questions.
I feel like I missed a lot or this game was meant to have a ton of sequels that never came to be.
Was there really zero explanation of how Vayne got wrapped up with Cid and Venat? No explanation why Venat hates the other Wisp Godghosts or of his larger motives? No fleshing out of the idea of the Godghosts guiding the history of men? What was the deal with the Bahamut? How did destroying the Sun Cryst make it materialize? Why did it stop working at the end? Basch ditching Ashe to serve Larsa kinda of undermines the whole central dispute of retaining honor with Gabranth, doesn't it?
I feel like I missed a lot or this game was meant to have a ton of sequels that never came to be.
FreeMufasa
Junior Member
How do I get past the feywood ice area
ArkhamFantasy
Member
The shrines will show an illusion between the pillars (like a tropical area) go in that direction.
TurnipFritters
Member
They fleshed out the Occuria's actions earlier in the game: At Jahara the elder was like "Yeah so they gave us the fantasy nukes first but then took it away because refused to use the fantasy nukes and gave 'em to the Dynast-King"
Bahamut was a weapon built by Cid. Remember how the Judge tried to use the Dawn Shard (I think?) to power his airship earlier in the game, and it caused a massive explosion? They were looking for energy sources that could actually power Bahamut, which they find in the Sun-Cryst (or rather, the Mist absorbed from the Sun-Cryst's destruction).
...let's just say that the Bahamut absorbing the Sun-Cryst's mist is how the party survived the explosion even though they were standing two feet away.
...let's also just say that the Bahamut crashes because Vayne absorbs vital components when he transforms into the final boss
...let's just say that the Bahamut absorbing the Sun-Cryst's mist is how the party survived the explosion even though they were standing two feet away.
...let's also just say that the Bahamut crashes because Vayne absorbs vital components when he transforms into the final boss
TheChillyAcademic
Member
I know I've said this before but the Espers in this game; both their design and backstories are some Silent Hill shit jfc
ST2K
Member
Right. I get that the Dynast-King used the nethicite from the Occuria. But...
1) The Occuria want to use nethicite to control history. Control history to do what?
2) Venat seems to have disagreed with them and split off, but he's using nethicite to control humans for his own ends too. So... is that intentional to allude to the fact that he wants to control humans as well, just for different ends?
3) What did Venat want? The only answer I could discern was that he didn't want the Occuria to control humans. Is that it? He seemed to have been portrayed as a far more sinister character.
4) Why were Vayne/Venat/Cid so bent on world war? If their true desire was to end the Occurias' intervention in history, then it should've ended with the destruction of the Sun Cryst, right? Why did they want to crush the resistance and bring the other empire into the conflict at that point?
1) The Occuria want to use nethicite to control history. Control history to do what?
2) Venat seems to have disagreed with them and split off, but he's using nethicite to control humans for his own ends too. So... is that intentional to allude to the fact that he wants to control humans as well, just for different ends?
3) What did Venat want? The only answer I could discern was that he didn't want the Occuria to control humans. Is that it? He seemed to have been portrayed as a far more sinister character.
4) Why were Vayne/Venat/Cid so bent on world war? If their true desire was to end the Occurias' intervention in history, then it should've ended with the destruction of the Sun Cryst, right? Why did they want to crush the resistance and bring the other empire into the conflict at that point?
Ah, that makes a bit of sense. Though, I thought they were pursuing nethicite to use as a weapon? Or was that the crew misunderstanding the Empire's intent? Was the Bahamut ever alluded to directly before it appeared? Was it constructed completely in secret?
Stalactite
Member
Mistwalker. Finally. ._. I lost count of how many times I tried to get Black Hole.
TIP: Don't use Basch. Fulminating Darkness + Flame Purge were lagging the shuffle chance and button selection for some reason. Also noticed a bit of lag with Vaan's White Whorl, Fran's Whip Kick, and one of Ashe's, her level 2 iirc.
^ this is probably placebo, but Basch really was lagging the quickening chains when he was part of them.
TIP: Don't use Basch. Fulminating Darkness + Flame Purge were lagging the shuffle chance and button selection for some reason. Also noticed a bit of lag with Vaan's White Whorl, Fran's Whip Kick, and one of Ashe's, her level 2 iirc.
^ this is probably placebo, but Basch really was lagging the quickening chains when he was part of them.
Sad, because Basch has the Best Quickenings animations IMO.
Ashe is Second
Penelo is dead last.
YankeeDonB
Member
Truth. And now that they're in HD and actually hang around for more than a second, and you can actually see their special attacks, really drives it home!
No way. Basch's punch one is SUPER lame looking, as is his laser fist attack. Makes him look he's badly cosplaying a Street Fighter character.
Balthier's are cool, as are Fran's ("Tremble!"), and Vaan's (even though I don't like Vaan). Could take or leave Ashe's, and then Basch and Penelo, yuck.
MegaSackman
Member
I have used them with overleveled enemies and some hunts, not in my wildest dreams I could have done that in the original.
The animation for the Espers and their special attack are so well done. After watching Zodiark's attack dozens of times during my fight against the Judges, it made me really regret not using the Espers more often since a lot of care seemed to have been put into them. I don't even think I summoned any of the others aside from Belias and Zodiark tbh.
TurnipFritters
Member
I honestly didn't realize that espers had big summon animation attacks until this version of the game.
Zodiark became one of my Top 3 Summon Animation thanks to this remaster and me actually Seeing its animation.
I doubt that we'll see Zodiark again however.
Vincent Grayson
Member
while i agree it's purely design choices, i'm not so sure it's 'dumb', or unfair. some developers just used to be into this kinda 'hidden goodie' stuff, which's only a 'problem' now, with the advent of trophies/achievements. iow, back then, it was understood that we weren't supposed to find everything, which, imo, just added to replay value, & was part of these games' charm
"Back then"? It came out in 2006, not the 80s or 90s. Obnoxiously hidden secrets have existed for a long time, and they've always been bullshit.
And people didn't like XII's loot system or seemingly random elements at launch either, so this is not some "noob" bullshit where people don't like how games "used to be".
YankeeDonB
Member
The esper special attacks are indeed awesome in this, and do a great deal to give each summon a lot more personality. I like to summon them just to watch! Which is how I always felt in FF 7/8/9.
SkylineRKR
Member
They look great but there is never a situation where Espers seem to be be helpful. I've summoned Shemhazai and it looked awesome.
I did like it. And today, i like it even more.
People nowadays are a little too used to know everything without having to search in the first place.
SkylineRKR
Member
But FFVIII already had magazines that revealed ingredients needed for the weapons.
Flachmatuch
Member
Just finished it. Loved many of the Japanese voices (Sanji, Viola, Kyros, Jinbei...yeah I quite like One Piece And of course Wakamoto Norio...I never understand what his voice is supposed to convey but it sure is funny and awesome.
Combat was a lot of fun of course, which is why I started NG+ as soon as I finished - I more or less chose jobs at random at first so I'll try the more obviously powerful ones now and at least I don't have to worry about levelling everyone this way. I really like the idea of this kind of NG+.
First, I understand you can rationalise and put together a more or less coherent explanation for many of these issues - it's just that I think the motivations of the main antagonists should be a lot clearer if you're playing a game :-D I don't want to just "understand" the story. I prefer to "experience" it as it happens in the game and this kind of stuff makes it hard.
Second, the political intrigue stuff takes a LOT of talent and courage to do well. Don't pretend you're doing it then do the cheap stuff when it stops working or becomes too hard. And if you're not doing it...please do some crazy stuff. I want complete full-on lunacy - like time compression or clones of aliens or whatever. Or crucified plushies or whatever.
Third, I had no issue with Vaan and Penelo. Sure, the rest of the cast was great, but I like that someone who wasn't born special and just tags along like a common man but still kind of inspires people. I mean, if we take the story seriously, they have an actual "meaning".
Yeah I know it's pretty trivial but still, I liked them.
That's not really the point he was trying to make? As far as I can see, he said that trophies make these secrets feel worse than they really are, Which I think they do. And they do seem to have an effect on game design. I ignore them completely though tbh so I don't really mind at all.
And of course Wakamoto Norio...I never understand what his voice is supposed to convey but it sure is funny and awesome.Combat was a lot of fun of course, which is why I started NG+ as soon as I finished - I more or less chose jobs at random at first so I'll try the more obviously powerful ones now and at least I don't have to worry about levelling everyone this way. I really like the idea of this kind of NG+.
Well, I think it's pretty clear that the game's a bit incomplete in terms of story. There are no fundamental contradictions, just unanswered questions :-/ Although tbh I don't know if the supernatural stuff is shoehorned in or if the story was actually built around it - the story started as a political drama but maybe it was too big a task for the writer to make it work without resorting to using the easiest way out? In any case, regardless of the larger storyline, this could have been better if at least the story focused a bit more on the characters and their interactions - or, my preference, if it had some of the crazy shit from 7 or 8. I actually prefer a badly written convoluted and meandering story to this kind of half-assed one. This game also felt a lot more grounded and "realistic" than my favourite FFs (7 and 8) which was the main reason I didn't really like it when it released...and this is exactly why the resolution feels silly and cheap because it abandoned the "realism" :-/ Also, all the stuff that I found cool had to do with the characters or with the political story, not the rest.
They could have shown how and why the Occuria control humans, and why and how anyone would notice they do - but they just asserted this was the case and of course the reason that humans even seem to know what's happening was Venat rebelling? And what was with the emotional outburst when they mentioned Venat when Ashe was talking to the Occurians? That seemed pretty silly. Also, how exactly did the Dynast-King use the nethicite? And...he actually really didn't, according to Ashe? So...how exactly did the Occuria control anything?
They could have shown how and why the Occuria control humans, and why and how anyone would notice they do - but they just asserted this was the case and of course the reason that humans even seem to know what's happening was Venat rebelling? And what was with the emotional outburst when they mentioned Venat when Ashe was talking to the Occurians? That seemed pretty silly. Also, how exactly did the Dynast-King use the nethicite? And...he actually really didn't, according to Ashe? So...how exactly did the Occuria control anything?
First, I understand you can rationalise and put together a more or less coherent explanation for many of these issues - it's just that I think the motivations of the main antagonists should be a lot clearer if you're playing a game :-D I don't want to just "understand" the story. I prefer to "experience" it as it happens in the game and this kind of stuff makes it hard.
Second, the political intrigue stuff takes a LOT of talent and courage to do well. Don't pretend you're doing it then do the cheap stuff when it stops working or becomes too hard. And if you're not doing it...please do some crazy stuff. I want complete full-on lunacy - like time compression or clones of aliens or whatever. Or crucified plushies or whatever.
Third, I had no issue with Vaan and Penelo. Sure, the rest of the cast was great, but I like that someone who wasn't born special and just tags along like a common man but still kind of inspires people. I mean, if we take the story seriously, they have an actual "meaning".
they're pretty much the only ones that aren't dragged along by the "fate" created by the supernatural assholes but of their own volition
That's not really the point he was trying to make? As far as I can see, he said that trophies make these secrets feel worse than they really are, Which I think they do. And they do seem to have an effect on game design. I ignore them completely though tbh so I don't really mind at all.Yeah. But then, weapons in VIII are only upgrades and if you don't upgrade you are like... Toast?
There's a ton of secrets in every FF, and sometimes you even find something huge by randomly checking things.
Secrets are good, they identify you as "the player" , not "a player" .
SkylineRKR
Member
The story is def. a disappointment. It starts out excellent but the development issues obviously shine through. It sort of goes nowhere. Its just that I can appreciate it more because we've had FFXIII and FFXV. FFXII's story is still far better than those.
Compare the hunts for example. In FFXII you can accept as many as you want simultanously. Some hunts have some funny dialogue and a bit of story, others are part of side quest chains. Compare that to FFXIII's stupid cieth stones and FFXV's well, burger joints and only one at a time bullshit.
This game is just far more advanced than its sequels. Quite ridiculous.
Compare the hunts for example. In FFXII you can accept as many as you want simultanously. Some hunts have some funny dialogue and a bit of story, others are part of side quest chains. Compare that to FFXIII's stupid cieth stones and FFXV's well, burger joints and only one at a time bullshit.
This game is just far more advanced than its sequels. Quite ridiculous.
Vincent Grayson
Member
Just finished it. Loved many of the Japanese voices (Sanji, Viola, Kyros, Jinbei...yeah I quite like One Piece
Combat was a lot of fun of course, which is why I started NG+ as soon as I finished - I more or less chose jobs at random at first so I'll try the more obviously powerful ones now and at least I don't have to worry about levelling everyone this way. I really like the idea of this kind of NG+.
Well, I think it's pretty clear that the game's a bit incomplete in terms of story. There are no fundamental contradictions, just unanswered questions :-/ Although tbh I don't know if the supernatural stuff is shoehorned in or if the story was actually built around it - the story started as a political drama but maybe it was too big a task for the writer to make it work without resorting to using the easiest way out? In any case, regardless of the larger storyline, this could have been better if at least the story focused a bit more on the characters and their interactions - or, my preference, if it had some of the crazy shit from 7 or 8. I actually prefer a badly written convoluted and meandering story to this kind of half-assed one. This game also felt a lot more grounded and "realistic" than my favourite FFs (7 and 8) which was the main reason I didn't really like it when it released...and this is exactly why the resolution feels silly and cheap because it abandoned the "realism" :-/ Also, all the stuff that I found cool had to do with the characters or with the political story, not the rest.
They could have shown how and why the Occuria control humans, and why and how anyone would notice they do - but they just asserted this was the case and of course the reason that humans even seem to know what's happening was Venat rebelling? And what was with the emotional outburst when they mentioned Venat when Ashe was talking to the Occurians? That seemed pretty silly. Also, how exactly did the Dynast-King use the nethicite? And...he actually really didn't, according to Ashe? So...how exactly did the Occuria control anything?
First, I understand you can rationalise and put together a more or less coherent explanation for many of these issues - it's just that I think the motivations of the main antagonists should be a lot clearer if you're playing a game :-D I don't want to just "understand" the story. I prefer to "experience" it as it happens in the game and this kind of stuff makes it hard.
Second, the political intrigue stuff takes a LOT of talent and courage to do well. Don't pretend you're doing it then do the cheap stuff when it stops working or becomes too hard. And if you're not doing it...please do some crazy stuff. I want complete full-on lunacy - like time compression or clones of aliens or whatever. Or crucified plushies or whatever.
Third, I had no issue with Vaan and Penelo. Sure, the rest of the cast was great, but I like that someone who wasn't born special and just tags along like a common man but still kind of inspires people. I mean, if we take the story seriously, they have an actual "meaning".Yeah I know it's pretty trivial but still, I liked them.they're pretty much the only ones that aren't dragged along by the "fate" created by the supernatural assholes but of their own volition
Why would trophies have anything to do with wanting to find all the cool weapons and armor in a game? Or finish all the monster hunts, or other sidequests?
I get when people argue that trophies built around grinding or unfun practices change the game for the worse, but I'm talking about basic shit like being able to explore and beat a challenging dungeon and know that the cool items will actually be there at the end of the fight. FFXII's loot system is garbage for this, and it's made that much worse because the dungeon exploration is fucking awesome.
Zodiark is more than usefull against the Trial 100
Other than that, Zalera helped me a lot on the OG FFXII when I wanted to go for the Zodiac Spear.
LegendofLex
Member
1)
They want to ordain the winners and losers of history.
2)
Yes; Vayne and Venat continue to behave like villains because they try to seize power for their own ends rather than accepting it - and rejecting absolute power - as a mantle of responsibility.
3)
Venat specifically wants to subvert the Occuria's chosen winner. Ostensibly s/he wants to do so to end the Occuria's grip on Ivalice. But there's that whole thing about means and ends, and Venat's choice of strategy basically replays the Occuria's, just from the opposing side.
4)
Simple: Vayne doesn't just want to end the Occuria's intervention in history. Vayne wants to become a self-ordained Dynast-King.
Flachmatuch
Member
Well, if you have a trophy that says "collect all weapons" or "hunt all monsters" or something like that? Of course it has a lot to do with that. It means that if you want to complete the (imo really manipulative and messed up) trophy metagame while playing the game, you will feel worse about not collecting everything etc. Look at how many people here are talking about platinuming the game and grinding the mist chains. And hunts are not nearly as bad as trophies afaics?
I'm not defending FF12's loot system at all. No doubt it's annoying. But I do think this has a bit to do with you knowing about and expecting that particular reward and that can be made worse by particular trophies. TBH I don't think I even get the trophy prompts.
Flachmatuch
Member
You are just stating the same thing in different words. A rephrasing is not a reason.
Again: you're simply describing what they seem to be doing in the story, not providing a motivation. Just abstractly asserting that "X wants Y" is not really satisfying in any way.
You're again simply rephrasing what happened in game (with some insightful interpretation thrown in). But the problem is that the story itself doesn't make this believable in a "concrete" way.
Again...why? And why does he even
have to have war for this?
These questions are simply not answered well in the story. The motivations of the antagonists are a mess. Of course you can come up with abstract descriptive responses ("they wanted X") but that's not yet a story afaics.
LegendofLex
Member
You don't think that giving people tremendous power on the condition that they use that power to wipe out perceived threats and advance your interests is a reason?
It's a thing that happens all the time in actual history. There doesn't need to be some deep-seated personal motivation.
The question you asked was basically "are we supposed to think that this character is a hypocrite?"
I'm telling you "yes" as well as what distinguishes this character from the heroes of the story.
The villains reject a world order enforced by gods, but their vision of a world beyond those gods' control is one where they use the gods' power for themselves. The heroes reject the use of the gods' power entirely, believing it to be a poison pill for humanity, and choose to destroy the source of that power and stop the villains from using that power.
I don't see what's unsatisfying about this; it's a fantastical representation of power struggles that exist in the real world, with a clear moral dilemma at the center.
What's unbelievable about it? In the United States we just had a presidential election that was basically about exactly this scenario - where a charismatic ruler claims to be an representative of the people, claims to want only to cast off oppression from existential threats, and then in the end behaves like an autocrat, hoarding power to himself to advance his own self-interests and protect his power and wealth.
It's just that here "power" happens also to be divine magic, the existential threat is gods, and the autocrat is backed by a rebel god.
Because people don't just suddenly throw allegiance behind a dude because he asks them to?
Flachmatuch
Member
I said that the response to "Control history to do what?" as "Choose the winners of losers of history" is not really a meaningful response. It's actually one kind of a definition of what "controlling history" means, nothing else. It's pretty much a tautology when you look at the narrative. *Why* do they want to do that? Did an Occurian kick Vayne's cute kitty when he was young? Abstract shit like "hunger for power" are generally not satisfying - although of course you can use tricks to make it worthwhile...which didn't happen in this game.
No, it actually doesn't. It really, really, *really* doesn't. Sometimes power-hungry individuals can seize power - but in those cases, there's always something behind them that would exist even if they were dead (if it's not about infighting between the people who already have power). And you always only get power by conforming to or "gaming" the system, never outside of it as an individual, but that's a different issue.
Not to mention that this "hunger for power" is not even that obvious from the story
which you can see before the old emperor's death, certainly not to the people who are on the side of Vayne
I think you're reading way too much into this, as Vayne is never really characterised in this way through his actions. You seem to be projecting (maybe with reason) a very traditional set of motivations on the main characters - maybe that was the intention of the writers but it's still cheap. It's still badly done. It's not like it's impossible to understand - it's simply mostly cliched and ineffectual, unless you happen to like those cliches. (I for example like the
self-sacrificing cool guy last scene
I phrased my point wrong. I didn't mean it's unbelievable - I just think it's a "reading" you can choose to have but there may be other readings. It doesn't follow organically and evidently from the story's structure.
Well, there's a lot more behind Trump than this. It actually reflects the death of the Left, the strategic incompetence of the DNC and the fact that people had no one to really vote for except for what they perceived as a "wildcard" who can "drain the swamp" and so on. It's not Trump that's special in history - it's the situation itself, the state of the people. And the game's *completely* missing this layer, and the many crises that's behind this. This is true for all entertainment though, not just this particular game, and it's not even an accident. In any case, don't use video game stories to try to understand the real world. That's not how things work.
Again, this is a complete and fundamental misreading of history. There are power struggles within the ruling class, but the story was not about that.
He didn't even ask. He just wanted to destroy. He explicitly refused a peace offer. It's incoherent.
I know it's possible to work on overlooking the obvious flaws and inconsistencies if you really want to. I mean, I definitely do that with stuff I like. But that doesn't mean they're not there.
Trying to decide who to give Cuchulainn to and could use some advice. I've narrowed it down to either Fran (Red Battlemage/Archer) or Basch (Knight/Bushi). Fran would get Thundaga, Firaga and Blizzaga and Basch would get Battle Lore.
Fran seems like the obvious choice, but I really don't know how much extra damage Battle Lore would get me. Also, I rarely use black magic.
There is a way to manipulate the RNG to get as many Great Trangos as you want, if that's something you're into.
Fran seems like the obvious choice, but I really don't know how much extra damage Battle Lore would get me. Also, I rarely use black magic.
There is a way to manipulate the RNG to get as many Great Trangos as you want, if that's something you're into.
semiconscious
Member
jeez! calm down, man. obviously, you despise stuff like this, & it's no longer done nearly as much as it once was (yeah, i know, 10 years ago), but myself, it's just never really bothered me finding out that there was hidden stuff that i missed in a game. it's not like any of this stuff's ever prevented me from finishing a game, &, as i said, it just gives me one more reason to replay it...
not calling anyone a 'noob' or anything. just saying there was a point in time when this kinda thing was done more often. &, yeah, i'm sure not everyone was crazy about it then, either. so, no insult intended, okay?
...DukeLongfellow
Member
I played XII 10 years ago last but if I am not mistaken that is around the half way point?
LegendofLex
Member
Why do they need some kind of complex personal motivation? They're powerful beings who want to keep the people less powerful than themselves in check so their position in the world remains stable.
Vayne is gaming the system
by trying to get access to the godlike power that has determined the winners of history without the Occuria's approval
It's clear from the story (i.e. Larsa and Al-Cid's plans) that he's trying to bait Rozarria into war, and that doing so will give him pretext to expand Archadia's territory, entrench their control over Dalmasca, and/or wield nethicite to destroy Rozarria's forces as a potentially hostile foreign power.
And it's well-established that Vayne is both ambitious and ruthless, having risen to his station by killing two of his brothers. There's some suggestion that his brothers were traitors - do we really know if that's true? It could be, or it could not be - it could be another ruse by Vayne, or it could be a driver of his ruthlessness. We also know that Vayne rises to power in a parliamentary system that wants to keep its emperor on a leash, and that that system fears Vayne's ambition and wants to muzzle him.
We don't need to know why Vayne is ruthless for it to be apparent and believable that he is. Do we know why most autocrats decide to behave like autocrats?
I think it's fine that the story hasn't focused on developing its characters so they have a single correct reading.
I mean, I think you've just answered the question of why the game doesn't have the contextual depth to satisfy your expectations.
Sure it is.
It's about how two rulers diverge in their approach to resisting control from actors behind the scenes - one, the wicked and deceitful ruler, by co-opting the puppet strings for his own purposes; the other, the good and true ruler, by decisively cutting the strings.
I have a gendarme and I don't use it, most likely wasn't going to use the sword either. Invisible weapons are just lame and lazy.
SkylineRKR
Member
Yeah those invisible weapons look terrible. Because your character is holding nothing. The Gendarme is a piece of nothing with ridiculous Evade and absorbs all elements. It might look fine with the Kumbha, since thats a one handed Katana. Looks are also a thing, Give me Demon Shield or Genji shield. The same with Seitengrat, seeing your characters fire with an invisible bow is just lame. I'd rather use Dhanusha.
Its not like you'll need those weapons to overcome the toughest fights.
Its not like you'll need those weapons to overcome the toughest fights.
ST2K
Member
As an aside,
That would make sense... if their reason for wanting power is explained at all. They don't want to be glorified like other gods, they don't want wealth, there's no indication that world stability is beneficial to them or what relationship they have with the world at all, besides their manipulations. I don't feel like we remotely know their nature or what they desire. Power is a means to an end: an end that we never see. They're just sitting in the netherworld living their eternal lives doing apparently nothing in particular. How would anything for them change if they didn't control history?
I get that. But it felt like the entire game was setting up there being more to the whole conflict than meets the eye. Vayne's murder of his brothers is portrayed as of an ambiguous nature, and his relationship with Larsa is good besides their differing views on foreign policy. Vayne's initial introduction showed him being magnanimous towards the conquered Dalmascans, not condescending or brutish. He makes overtures for peace with Ashe's crew. Hell, in the final scene before the climactic battle, he's shown as having pity towards Ashe for not being willing to wield power to save her people, like he (apparently?) feels the need to. He's shown as having an amicable relationship with virtually everyone he gets screen time with. The only moments of cruelty he has in the entire game is with some of the Judges, and even then he's not exactly full-blown villainous. And I never got the impression that he had the naked ambition of expanding territorial control or ruling the world, like you seem to have. His desire for war with everyone was inscrutable to me.
I guess what I'm trying to say is there's a line between "look at this morally ambiguous villain" and "look at this villain that you don't understand." Vayne definitely felt more like the latter.
Except... he doesn't co-opt the puppet strings? He destroys the nethicite entirely. Your view would be more tenable if he had killed the Occuria and/or seized the Sun Cryst for his own ends. Instead, he didn't make a move against them, destroyed the Cryst, and then delved headlong into his entirely unnecessary war.
did the Dynast-King rule over all of Ivalice? He's said to be the ancestor of Dalmascan royalty. Is it stated he ruled far beyond that?
That would make sense... if their reason for wanting power is explained at all. They don't want to be glorified like other gods, they don't want wealth, there's no indication that world stability is beneficial to them or what relationship they have with the world at all, besides their manipulations. I don't feel like we remotely know their nature or what they desire. Power is a means to an end: an end that we never see. They're just sitting in the netherworld living their eternal lives doing apparently nothing in particular. How would anything for them change if they didn't control history?
I get that. But it felt like the entire game was setting up there being more to the whole conflict than meets the eye. Vayne's murder of his brothers is portrayed as of an ambiguous nature, and his relationship with Larsa is good besides their differing views on foreign policy. Vayne's initial introduction showed him being magnanimous towards the conquered Dalmascans, not condescending or brutish. He makes overtures for peace with Ashe's crew. Hell, in the final scene before the climactic battle, he's shown as having pity towards Ashe for not being willing to wield power to save her people, like he (apparently?) feels the need to. He's shown as having an amicable relationship with virtually everyone he gets screen time with. The only moments of cruelty he has in the entire game is with some of the Judges, and even then he's not exactly full-blown villainous. And I never got the impression that he had the naked ambition of expanding territorial control or ruling the world, like you seem to have. His desire for war with everyone was inscrutable to me.
I guess what I'm trying to say is there's a line between "look at this morally ambiguous villain" and "look at this villain that you don't understand." Vayne definitely felt more like the latter.
Except... he doesn't co-opt the puppet strings? He destroys the nethicite entirely. Your view would be more tenable if he had killed the Occuria and/or seized the Sun Cryst for his own ends. Instead, he didn't make a move against them, destroyed the Cryst, and then delved headlong into his entirely unnecessary war.
FinalFanXtreme
Member
i beat the game and laughed at how easy the final boss was. Should I get all trophies?