Finding the Rap GOAT final (2Pac vs Eminem)
- Thread starter Majestad
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PhoenixDark
Banned
I don't think either are GOAT but Pac at least belongs in the discussion.
And I hope I don't catch a ban for this but I have to say it.
Not only do I not think Em is the best rapper, But for all the "I can't relate" types I cannot even relate to Em. As a white guy both ill bill and slaine talk about stuff I have been through, I have family members who are addicts and I grew up listening to both rap and metal and not fitting in because of it.
However I have never powerfantasied about killing my mother. There is more to hip hop than raw technical ability.
And I hope I don't catch a ban for this but I have to say it.
Not only do I not think Em is the best rapper, But for all the "I can't relate" types I cannot even relate to Em. As a white guy both ill bill and slaine talk about stuff I have been through, I have family members who are addicts and I grew up listening to both rap and metal and not fitting in because of it.
However I have never powerfantasied about killing my mother. There is more to hip hop than raw technical ability.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Honorable mention to O.C.--not the GOAT, but still dope, and always a personal favorite.
Congratulations on your reading comprehension abilities. So having the "bodies of work" doesn't have anything to do with being the GOAT? Lmao. And all of the things I listed are a product of that: the albums, the records, and everethying these encompass (flow, lyrical ability, content, etc.)
Are you upset because you bought it?
Did he stop making music after those albums or something, or is this one of those selective debates where all the bad albums don't count?
Black album was his last good album and that came out in like 2003.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Grover Cleveland
Member
Nas
Rakim
3 Stacks
Biggie
Jay
Pac
Kool G Rap
Scarface
Raekwon
Black Thought
Big Daddy Kane
Ice Cube
Mos Def
Ghostface
Snoop
Em
I'm telling yall Em's discog has aged AWFULLY. MMLP is his best record and its only a borderline classic. The rest ranges from WOAT to very good.
Specifically on Jay, Reasonable Doubt, Blueprint, Black Album (and arguably Volume 1) are all better than Em's best CD. And MCHG, Kingdom Come, and Blueprint 3 are all better than Encore on the back end.
btw, there is some excellent trolling going on in this thread. I almost didn't catch it.
Rakim
3 Stacks
Biggie
Jay
Pac
Kool G Rap
Scarface
Raekwon
Black Thought
Big Daddy Kane
Ice Cube
Mos Def
Ghostface
Snoop
Em
I'm telling yall Em's discog has aged AWFULLY. MMLP is his best record and its only a borderline classic. The rest ranges from WOAT to very good.
Specifically on Jay, Reasonable Doubt, Blueprint, Black Album (and arguably Volume 1) are all better than Em's best CD. And MCHG, Kingdom Come, and Blueprint 3 are all better than Encore on the back end.
btw, there is some excellent trolling going on in this thread. I almost didn't catch it.
PhoenixDark
Banned
This is patently not true. The idea that "renegade'd" is on the same level as "ether" is laughable nor is there an ounce of evidence to support it; find me some rap heads who believe that shit. Hell, Nas is the one who said Eminem destroyed Jay on Renegade.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
nobody has ever said Renegade'd
ever
ever
Sequence Six
Member
DANCE, PUPPETS
--
I'll admit that I have a hard time relating to some things in the rap I hear. So I don't have a deep knowledge of artists that don't hit mainstream radio play. Is there someone I can tap into to see what I've been missing? I tend to prefer older style of rap that I grew up with like Run DMC, Beastie Boys, and Snoop.
MoodyFog
Member
http://youtu.be/0pcMCrKwrmk
http://youtu.be/0mnyBp4FzzI
http://youtu.be/UKjj4hk0pV4
So there are people that think Eminem is anywhere close to these dudes?!!
http://youtu.be/0mnyBp4FzzI
http://youtu.be/UKjj4hk0pV4
So there are people that think Eminem is anywhere close to these dudes?!!
Jay Z was great but his reputation has suffered because he's moved on to focus on other things. Also, the Black Album came out a long time ago.
But that doesn't change the fact that he was on top for nearly a decade, not only commercially but also creatively. He's easily above Eminem and Pac in my opinion.
But that doesn't change the fact that he was on top for nearly a decade, not only commercially but also creatively. He's easily above Eminem and Pac in my opinion.
Agreed, I just disagree with your original argument about consistency. Jay-Z hasn't been consistent since 2003. Unless you're including consistent bad albums in which you'd have to include Eminem as well.
Listen to Stan and try to say is not a brilliant song any way you want to look at it.
Black Republican
Member
we need a GOAT producer thread, Premo, Pete Rock, Havoc, Erick Sermon, Alchemist, too many to name lol
No Order
Redman
Nas
Big Pun
Kool G Rap
LL Cool J
2pac
Prodigy
Andre 3000
Ghostface Killah
Big Daddy Kane
Biggie
No Order
Redman
Nas
Big Pun
Kool G Rap
LL Cool J
2pac
Prodigy
(Infamous - Hell on Earth-Murder Muzik-HNIC) he was fucking amazing-Apostles Warning gives me chills
Ghostface Killah
Big Daddy Kane
Biggie
Never was a big fan of JayZ
richardhawk
Member
Gucci mane is the greatest rapper alive.
Eminem gets more way more criticism on GAF than is deserved but lol at some of the defenses here.
When people reference Renegade, they don't say "Renegaded", if they say anything, they say "you got murdered on your own shit". Nas came up with the damn line.
When people reference Renegade, they don't say "Renegaded", if they say anything, they say "you got murdered on your own shit". Nas came up with the damn line.
Now that's a list of names that belong in the conversation at least.
King Cobra
Banned
My list is by amount of songs I have on my phone;
2pac
Eninem
Nas
Immortal Technique
Jay z
Lil Wayne
All these other rappers you guys have listed I've actually TRIED to like. I tried to see what the hype is about most of them buy they just don't really get me.
2pac
Eninem
Nas
Immortal Technique
Jay z
Lil Wayne
All these other rappers you guys have listed I've actually TRIED to like. I tried to see what the hype is about most of them buy they just don't really get me.
holy fuck when you accuse eminem's fans of relating to casual rape and murder talks. don't 2pac and others have the same kind of lyrics in their songs? don't they like to rap about shooting n****z on the streets? about getting high and stuff? yes they do but that's not the reason why you like them, isn't it? they have great material too. is that so hard to understand that eminem has a giant list of perfect songs in terms of technique and lyrics?
no one here is trying to pick the best rapper alive objectively, myself included. we voted those we like best. and this is ridiculous of course, everyone knows these threads are jokes, because every kind of top 10 or top 2 or 5 or whatever, they are extremely subjective. so i didn't take it seriously, and I thought you didn't too, but well fuck me, seems like some of you are being a bit immature yourself.
btw my top 5 (because i don't have a top 10)
eminem
cunninlynguists
hilltop hoods
looptroop rockers
lupe fiasco (because food and liquor)
I never gave a fuck about who was the best out there, I just listen to music i like.
but yeah you got me. i genuinely think that 2pac and jay-z and the rest can be generalized like that.
no one here is trying to pick the best rapper alive objectively, myself included. we voted those we like best. and this is ridiculous of course, everyone knows these threads are jokes, because every kind of top 10 or top 2 or 5 or whatever, they are extremely subjective. so i didn't take it seriously, and I thought you didn't too, but well fuck me, seems like some of you are being a bit immature yourself.
btw my top 5 (because i don't have a top 10)
eminem
cunninlynguists
hilltop hoods
looptroop rockers
lupe fiasco (because food and liquor)
I never gave a fuck about who was the best out there, I just listen to music i like.
but yeah you got me. i genuinely think that 2pac and jay-z and the rest can be generalized like that.
LookAtMeGo
Member
PAC
FadedRevolution
Member
a whole bunch of white people who don't know about rap trying to explain why eminem deserves to be mentioned at the top of the list.
It's Yeezy because fuck lyrics.
The only thing that matters is if it sounds good in the whip.
Don't do this.
The only thing that matters is if it sounds good in the whip.
Don't do this.
honestrade
Member
Pac for sure. I like Eminem and all but this is no contest.
Hey I'm part mexican. I think.
my dude
Dreams-Visions
Member
theignoramus
Member
I wish Pun had more self control with his eating habits. That dude was coming for the crown of New York. Capital Punishment is only like a minor notch below Ready to Die and Illmatic in quality. He had all the ingredients of a GOAT tier rapper: witty, lyrical, disgusting delivery, and versatility.
Eminem could justifiably be put in a top 5 list. Number 1 though? Please. You'd be laughed out the barbershop if you said that in front of any heads and rightfully so.
He might be greatest in terms of impact and sales, but straight up rapping? Ummm hes been trash for a decade.
Eminem could justifiably be put in a top 5 list. Number 1 though? Please. You'd be laughed out the barbershop if you said that in front of any heads and rightfully so.
He might be greatest in terms of impact and sales, but straight up rapping? Ummm hes been trash for a decade.
If he and Big L had lived the whole conversation might be different.
Dreams-Visions
Member
No he wasn't. But he was quite solid and one of the better solo rappers of the era to be sure. Caribbean Connection is STILL MY SHIT TODAY. But his body of work is too small (perhaps the only small thing about him) to put him in the pantheon. He might have gotten there, but we'll never know.
LookAtMeGo
Member
2PAC was only 25 when he died. He really was wise for his years. If he had lived longer and was able to mature even more, I think we would have seen some really great things from him. His "gangster" lyrics came from his mind at where he was in his life at the time. He told stories about things that happened around him. If he were still alive today he would probably be speaking about important issues just like he was before he died. 2 PAC was a genius. Em can put words together that sound amazing and obviously his lyrics resonate with a lot of white kids but none of his lyrics can touch PACs in terms political or social importance.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Eminem can never be in goat conversations because of his subject matter. Killing madukes and all that other goofy stuff Em raps about disqualifies him from being the goat. Eminem's best music isn't as good as his competition's best music but his worse(Encore) is infinitely worse than his competition's worst.
This is better than all the above three songs - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snHfdV3gw9Q
You could have picked better examples. I also dont know why people are appealing to popularity to defend Eminem. Popularity does not mean GOAT. Anyways I would not be upset if Eminem wins this battle in the end. The guy is talented, has had a huge cultural impact and has some of the most catchy rap songs of all time. Sure he is not the rapper he was ( technically better than ever though ) but he is too influential to be left out of the conversation. All these rappers listed in this thread are great in their own way.
Firelord Chargrilled
Banned
Tough choice but i am gonna go with em
theignoramus
Member
Low key Eminems verse was so hot everyone been under rating a very respectable verse from Jay.
High key, am I crazy to say that Tony Starks had a more consistent two decades of rap albums than Nas, Jay, or Em? His highs may not be as good as those other three but the sheer consistency of the man....Purple Tape, Ironman, Supreme Clientele, Fishscale, Apollo Kids, 12 Reasons to Die.
Is this necessarily a bad thing? Different things connect to different people. Also Em is popular the world over and I would think more than any other rapper during his prime. I am from India and he was insanely popular here during my years of growing up. Sure part of it was the shock value but his rap also connected with a lot of adults and not just white kids though I understand where you are coming from.
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