Finding the Rap GOAT final (2Pac vs Eminem)

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Bubble Metropolis said:
Aw here it goes. Every time people wanna talk about rapping some millennial gotta pull DOOM out they ass. That's they one.

Look, MF DOOM is good, but compared to Tupac and Eminem, MF DOOM ain't SHIT. I even dig that shit he did under KMD and his features with 3rd Bass, but he ain't even in the same ballpark when we're talking about people with the influence of 2pac, Biggie, Rakim, Nas, Eminem, Jay Z, etc.

As for the topic at hand, Marshall Mathers LP still gets plenty of spins from me, but this is a no-brainer. It's 2pac. But 2pac definitely wouldn't have made it out of those rounds he did to get to this point, if it were up to me. The landslide victory over Biggie got me mad, no joke.
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THANK YOU!


I'm like the biggest Doom fan, but folks put him on the damn trophy shelf like he's the God of hip hop. Dude been using the same old ass beats since 2003, lazy as hell when it comes down to making music, and compared to Grimm, Sub Rock, and even fucking Kurious...dude was aight at best. Fans need to stop listening to Hip Hop for the gimmicks and appreciating every bit of the craft. When I see folks hyping up Doom in 2015, it's pretty damn funny when he hasn't put out anything since 2009. The latest thing he did music wise was give an young breakout rapper some throwaway beats and one feature.

NehruvianDOOM.jpg
 
Game4life said:
There is a higher chance that you choose an average person on the steet and he/she remembers Lose Yourself over those songs but anyways I dont want to appeal to popularity as a measure of quality. We shall agree to disagree.
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True, but they will also remember "Ice Ice Baby" and "The Humpty Dance". I'm just saying.
 
IrishNinja said:
oh, i don't at all hate it, i think it's a great track honestly - and it is iconic, especially from 8 mile - i just don't know about one of the all-time greats, that's all
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Not even the best song off that album, 8 Mile is.
Em fans in their stannery not even picking the best songs to stan for, just his blockbuster singles.
 
#1 GOAT aka the truth, the light, etc
Rakim

Losers not #1
Biggy
Nas
Andre 3000
Ice Cube
Tupac
Eminem
Jay Z
Snoop Lion
MC Lyte

Honorable mention
Lauryn Hill
Kendrick
Kanye
Talib
Big Pun
 
Game4life said:
Is this necessarily a bad thing? Different things connect to different people. Also Em is popular the world over and I would think more than any other rapper during his prime. I am from India and he was insanely popular here during my years of growing up. Sure part of it was the shock value but his rap also connected with a lot of adults and not just white kids though I understand where you are coming from.
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I didn't mean to make it sound like it was a bad thing. I just think a big part of Em's fame, aside from his obvious skill, was his ability to reach a broad white audience. A white guy signed by Dr Dre talking about things white kids could relate to, like being a white kid thats into rap music.

I have huge respect for Eminem and know his first 4 albums off by heart. I honestly believe that if Em were black, we wouldn't even be having a discussion about comparing him to PAC. Eminems race did a lot to gain him respect in the rap game, almost as much as his skill.
 
RP912 said:
The true answer to the best song off the soundtrack is obviously
Wanksta
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Yo that 8 Mile album was hot though. And it must be one of the few albums where one of the guest artists (Nas) recorded a straight up diss track directed at another one of the guest artists. (Jay)
We aint even talking about a subliminal jab in a verse, Nas' track was a full song dedicated to shittin on Jay, he did everything but say Hov's name outright.
I applaud Mathers for allowing that to happen. I wonder if he got a phone call from Hov over that, haha.
 
theignoramus said:
Yo that 8 Mile album was hot though. And it must be one of the few albums where one of the guest artists (Nas) recorded a straight up diss track directed at another one of the guest artists. (Jay)
We aint even talking about a subliminal jab in a verse, Nas' track was a full song dedicated to shittin on Jay, he did everything but say Hov's name outright.
I applaud Mathers for allowing that to happen. I wonder if he got a phone call from Hov over that, haha.
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I remember I bought my ex the album and she played out Wanksta lol, but yeah it was a dope soundtrack. One thing I truly appreciate about the Jay Z/Nas battle was the fact that it felt like a saga. They were always on rappers albums but doing separate songs, did subliminals to each other throughout their careers, and even their crews was battling.


Probably one of the best battles of all time.
 
PhoenixDark said:
Off the top of my head, in no particular order outside of the first couple

Nas, Kool G Rap, Ghostface Killah, Biggie, Scarface, Andre 3000, KRS-One, 2Pac, Ice Cube, Jay Z.

My criteria is pretty simple. Lyrics, flow, consistency (albums), storytelling, metaphors, longevity. My problem with Eminem is that his best work doesn't age well, he hasn't really grown much as a rapper, and he has been trash for a decade. He was a great rapper but his recent stuff is just bad, and the older stuff doesn't really hold up in hindsight. Obviously my list features other people who suck now (KRS-One) too.

I'm hesitant to put 2Pac in the top ten as well. While he's a personal favorite, as a rapper he doesn't really hold a candle to guys like Biggie, Nas, Jay, etc. Or as a lyricist. But as a songwriter he was pretty damn good, and had one of the best voices/delivery in rap.

My problem with Em stans is that it's obvious most don't listen to rap outside of Em and a few rappers connected to Dr Dre. So they sit around marveling at Eminem's amazing flow while ignoring the people he got it from (G Rap, Nas, AZ, etc). Basically Eminem fans tend to be music plebes who only listen to him. How anyone can defend his last few albums is beyond me.
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Eminem's talent is undeniable. Yes, he has a lot of cheesy shit, but when he goes hard he fucking delivers. Yes, he is vulgar, offensive, and a plethora of other things. And yes, a lot of his fans like him for all of the wrong reasons....but that doesn't take away from his natural abilities. You bring up an interesting point however on what criteria people use to judge best rappers. Is it voice/delivery, their song writing skills, their lyrical ability, or something else entirely like being able to connect with a particular audience? I think with Eminem it's a mix of all of the above.
 
RP912 said:
THANK YOU!


I'm like the biggest Doom fan, but folks put him on the damn trophy shelf like he's the God of hip hop. Dude been using the same old ass beats since 2003, lazy as hell when it comes down to making music, and compared to Grimm, Sub Rock, and even fucking Kurious...dude was aight at best. Fans need to stop listening to Hip Hop for the gimmicks and appreciating every bit of the craft. When I see folks hyping up Doom in 2015, it's pretty damn funny when he hasn't put out anything since 2009. The latest thing he did music wise was give an young breakout rapper some throwaway beats and one feature.

NehruvianDOOM.jpg
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Nehruvian Doom was sick though, no idea why it was slept on so hard.

Anywho, I voted for Em. 313, and all that.
 
Can't deny Eminem's talent when it comes to rapping, but lol at calling him the GOAT. As soon as you start looking more and more into hip-hip from both the past and the present, you'll quickly find that there are rappers who are more talented than him in both lyrical content and delivery.

The people posting Rakim, Nas, Kool G Rap, KRS-One know what's up.
 
FadedRevolution said:
Where is Nas on this list?
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Started off great, faded fast. Illmatic is a classic though... but some of his shit is unlistenable.

I'm not a huge 2pac fan, so I'd go with Em over 2pac.. but neither are top in my eyes.

Black Thought
Raekwon
Biggie
Rakim
Killer Mike

Even at this point I'd put Kendrick over Pac.
 
NervousXtian said:
Even at this point I'd put Kendrick over Pac.
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398059_s.gif


Edit: I'll just add that when discussing the GOAT rapper of all time, its not just a rhyme style. While someone like Kendrick may have a better way with words that may flow better, you have to look at things like the persons influence and impact on the industry on top of their actual skill at spitting rhymes. To say Kendrick is above 2pac when discussing greatest rappers of all time is ridiculous IMO.

Edit 2: I'd argue that most people would agree that Biggie had a better flow and delivery than PAC, but PAC was more influential and that there was more meaning in his lyrics which is a skill on its own.
 
Nas hasn't faded at all. He is still one of the few thats been 20+ in the game still going strong. There's a reason so many people respect the dude. His last album Life is Good is dope as hell and his recent features have been great as well. Nas hasn't lost a step.
 
FadedRevolution said:
Nas hasn't faded at all. He is still one of the few thats been 20+ in the game still going strong. There's a reason so many people respect the dude. His last album Life is Good is dope as hell and his recent features have been great as well. Nas hasn't lost a step.
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I agree Nas is still great, but he has had a really rough periods releasing garbage like Oochie Wally, I Am, Nostradamus, streets disciple.

Distant Relatives and Life is Good were really good though.
 
Majestad said:
I agree Nas is still great, but he has had a really rough periods releasing garbage like Oochie Wally, I Am, Nostradamus, streets disciple.

Distant Relatives and Life is Good were really good though.
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Da fuq? "Oochie Wally" is the jam. I'm still dropping it like it's hot on that shit. Nastradamus is the only bad thing in his discography. I Am and Street's Disciple are straight.
 
NervousXtian said:
Started off great, faded fast. Illmatic is a classic though... but some of his shit is unlistenable.

I'm not a huge 2pac fan, so I'd go with Em over 2pac.. but neither are top in my eyes.

Scarface
Raekwon
Biggie
inspectah deck
Carmen Electra

Even at this point I'd put Kendrick over Pac.
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Who?
Fixed (if you wanna leave out Em)
 
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