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[berzeli]

Both Prime Minister Juha Sipilä and Finance Minister Petteri Orpo took to Twitter Monday afternoon to announce that the government coalition would no longer include the nationalist Finns Party. According to new Finns Party chair Jussi halla-aho, the coalition stumbled over the thorny issue of immigration policy.

The election of hardline anti-immigrant Eurosceptic Jussi Halla-aho last weekend to replace outgoing chair Timo Soini has introduced a new complexion to the nationalist Finns Party – and created a political headache for Sipilä's pro-EU government. It also propelled PM Sipilä into a huddle with Halla-aho, Orpo and opposition parties to decide on a way forward.

"Discussions held. Our joint proposal to Centre/NCP Parliamentary groups: no ground to continue cooperation with a Finns Party led by Halla-aho," Sipilä and Orpo wrote in identical tweets Monday afternoon.

Via Yle
Good. Halla-aho has no business being in government. Hell, he has no business being in charge of a party but here we are.
And for bit of a background on Halla-aho:

Halla-aho, who holds a doctoral degree in linguistics, was found guilty of ethnic agitation and disturbing religious peace in 2012 based on anti-Islamic and anti-Somali comments he had posted on his blog.

Which is Yle's way too kind description of Halla-aho saying that Somali people are "genetically predisposed of committing theft". The man is a virulent racist.

edit: Another example of how Halla-aho is a fuckwit

I really wouldn't want to be in this country, if it was lead by a man with statements like this:

Rough translation:

"As I was standing next to a gay person, I was wondering, if I should take a gun from upstairs, and shoot him in the head. Would the euphoria be big enough, that it would be worth the jailtime? Violence is these times an underrated way of solving problems"

2nd edit:Finns Party splinters, new group makes bid for Sipilä government

Following its exit from Juha Sipilä's government, the Finns Party's parliamentary group has collapsed, with a band of 20 MPs forming a new group to be known as the "New Alternative". Chair of the new group Timo Elo said the move was not just about the election of anti-immigration hardliner Jussi Halla-aho as Finns Party chair, but about elements that had taken over the party.

 

[DonShula]

That thread title tricked my American brain into thinking the opposite of what it actually meant.

 

[ERotIC]

The Fins have the most curious names.

 

[Impeccable]

A sweeping movement of hate continues across the world.

 

[illamap]

Halla-aho would have been fine with current policy-plan so, this is man-hunt most of all.

 

[Tacitus_]

Well that was faster than I expected, thought they'd at least try a bit to work together.

I wonder if this was in time to stop the fuckery the government was trying to pass.

 

[Sarek]

Halla-aho would have been fine with current policy-plan so, this is man-hunt most of all.

Are you serious? He wasn't fine with it. He demanded tougher anti-immigration policy based on his on own interpretation of the goverment agenda. Interpretation not even his own party hadn't had before.

 

[theechrisfox]

Your politicians seem to have spine over there. I'm jelly.

 

[Nordicus]

Ugh, had the tiniest hope the party would pick Terho.

Regardless, I want the trend from the municipal elections to continue and the True Finns to get fucking slammed. They lost 1/4th of their seats there.

 

[amar212]

Life really have strong sense for sarcasm when anti-islamic leader's surname is Halla-aho.

Hallaharious.

 

[Burbeting]

Not a very surprising turn of events. I would have been disturbed if Halla-aho would have been allowed in the government.

 

[L176]

Are you serious? He wasn't fine with it. He demanded tougher anti-immigration policy based on his on own interpretation of the goverment agenda. Interpretation not even his own party hadn't had before.

The immigration part of the government program is so loosely worded that you can make almost any kind of interpretation about it...

The problem now is that The Finns are now in a same kind of position as the Svenskademokraterna in Sweden. Because of them neither a left or right wing majority government is impossible to achieve without one side making huge compromises. No one will take the Finns to the government now. And that even if we have a new election. At the moment they can at least try to form a center-right government together with the small Christian democrats and Swedish people's party (101 to 200 reps).

 

[jakonovski]

Halla-Aho basically engineered this whole thing to go to shit. And now he's being smug as fuck about it. Tell you all you need to know about his type. All they want to do is destroy.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

 

[Tovarisc]

I imagine Perus Suomalaiset (nationalist Finns Party in question here) take hit at support from people because of Halla-Aho. Timo Soini really put that party on the map and got a lot people behind them, but I doubt Halla-Aho can maintain that support.

 

[fatchris]

I imagine Perus Suomalaiset (nationalist Finns Party in question here) take hit at support from people because of Halla-Aho. Timo Soini really put that party on the map and got a lot people behind them, but I doubt Halla-Aho can maintain that support.

I reckon the party's cabinet members are none too pleased as well. With the economy doing better than predicted and the Social Democrats regaining popularity, it's hard to imagine that Halla-aho will lead Perussuomalaiset anywhere but back into the sidelines.

Punditry is a fool's errand, but it looks like they played themselves.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

This Halla-aho fellow seems like a delight

The racial hatred charges relate to his comments that “that robbing passersby and living on taxpayers’ expense are cultural, and possibly genetic, characteristics of Somalis.”

 

[Burbeting]

This Halla-aho fellow seems like a delight

I really wouldn't want to be in this country, if it was lead by a man with statements like this:

Rough translation:

"As I was standing next to a gay person, I was wondering, if I should take a gun from upstairs, and shoot him in the head. Would the euphoria be big enough, that it would be worth the jailtime? Violence is these times an underrated way of solving problems"

 

[Tovarisc]

I really wouldn't want to be in this country, if it was lead by a man with statements like this:

Rough translation:

It escapes me how PeruS picked him to lead them... like fuck?

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

This Halla-aho fellow seems like a delight

Utter cunt.

 

[GCX]

I really wouldn't want to be in this country, if it was lead by a man with statements like this:

Rough translation:

That's one of the few writings he has "regretted" afterwrds. Not that it matters though because he did write it and my god what a horrible human being.

 

[Gattsu25]

I really wouldn't want to be in this country, if it was lead by a man with statements like this:

Rough translation:

WHAT THE FUCK??

 

[SuperBanana]

I really wouldn't want to be in this country, if it was lead by a man with statements like this:

Rough translation:

This is literally serial killer levels of fucked up shit. He's flat out admitting how great it would feel to kill someone.

 

[FrontalMonk]

That's one of the few writings he has "regretted" afterwrds. Not that it matters though because he did write it and my god what a horrible human being.

All other reports from this thread sound like it's not something he regrets writing, but something he regrets people being offended by.

 

[berzeli]

The immigration part of the government program is so loosely worded that you can make almost any kind of interpretation about it...

The problem now is that The Finns are now in a same kind of position as the Svenskademokraterna in Sweden. Because of them neither a left or right wing majority government is impossible to achieve without one side making huge compromises. No one will take the Finns to the government now. And that even if we have a new election. At the moment they can at least try to form a center-right government together with the small Christian democrats and Swedish people's party (101 to 200 reps).

I'm not sure what your point is, especially with regards to it "this is man-hunt most of all".
edit: You weren't the one who said that. I wasn't paying attention.
If there is a new election, it isn't certain that they will get the same amounts of votes and be in the same position as of now.

I reckon the party's cabinet members are none too pleased as well. With the economy doing better than predicted and the Social Democrats regaining popularity, it's hard to imagine that Halla-aho will lead Perussuomalaiset anywhere but back into the sidelines.

Punditry is a fool's errand, but it looks like they played themselves.

I really hope that this will end up backfiring on them, but fear that it won't.

I really wouldn't want to be in this country, if it was lead by a man with statements like this:

Rough translation:

Oh. Oh.
Well he can go fuck himself alright.

 

[KillerMan91]

While of course didn't want to coalition to continue with halla-aho the new coalition will suck too as they have to bring christians and swedes to it. Gonna sink those few good policies that they were trying to enact with current coalition (loosening the grip of mandatory swedish in schools and passing more sensible alcohol laws).

 

[despire]

Via Yle
Good. Halla-aho has no business being in government. Hell, he has no business being in charge of a party but here we are.
And for bit of a background on Halla-aho:

Which is Yle's way too kind description of Halla-aho saying that Somali people are "genetically predisposed of committing theft". The man is a virulent racist.

edit: Another example of how Halla-aho is a fuckwit

Yeah well in all honesty it might be prudent to present all the facts in the OP. Not trying to defend this but you can't really leave them out because it will give these some context.

In the case of the genetic predisposition case:

-This was said to be a test of the finnish justice system. Particularly whether or not you can say something about an another group of people (the majority) but can't say a similar thing about an another group of people (a minority). In this case a large finnish newspaper had written that "finnish people are genetically predisposed to drinking and violence." Halla-aho wanted to see if you could write something similar about some other group or not. This was even mentioned in the start of the blog post. The whole point was to turn the statement around and see what would happen. He wanted to see what the prosecutor would do. And it seems that while you can make untrue and racist statements about finnish people you can't make similar untrue and racist statements about a minority group.


In the gay man case:

-This was not just a gay person, it was some rough looking dude who came up to him and demanded to give him a blowjob. He didn't give up and kept aggressively insisting on a blowjob in the middle of a street. Not saying what he wrote was okay but I'm not sure what I would feel if someone would basically sexually harass me in the street like that.

This was in 2006 mind you so it's an over a decade old post.

 

[bionic77]

Most Western countries seem to have lost their damn minds in the past year.

I really hope that the facists lose in the long run.

 

[Quixzlizx]

Yeah well in all honesty it might be prudent to present all the facts in the OP. Not trying to defend this but you can't really leave them out because it will give these some context.

In the case of the genetic predisposition case:

-This was said to be a test of the finnish justice system. Particularly whether or not you can say something about an another group of people (the majority) but can't say a similar thing about an another group of people (a minority). In this case a large finnish newspaper had written that "finnish people are genetically predisposed to drinking and violence." Halla-aho wanted to see if you could write something similar about some other group or not. This was even mentioned in the start of the blog post. The whole point was to turn the statement around and see what would happen. He wanted to see what the prosecutor would do. And it seems that while you can make untrue and racist statements about finnish people you can't make similar untrue and racist statements about a minority group.


In the gay man case:

-This was not just a gay person, it was some rough looking dude who came up to him and demanded to give him a blowjob. He didn't give up and kept aggressively insisting on a blowjob in the middle of a street. Not saying what he wrote was okay but I'm not sure what I would feel if someone would basically sexually harass me in the street like that.

This was in 2006 mind you so it's an over a decade old post.

Sounds legit.

 

[Arttemis]

I was expecting the US Republican party to do the same during their primaries, when the now-POTUS was literally taking about 'blood coming out of her whatever', Pocahontas, stamina and dick measuring contests, and outright lying.

 

[despire]

Sounds legit.

Yeah like I said I'm not condoning what he said here. Just giving some context.

 

[TTOOLL]

Yeah well in all honesty it might be prudent to present all the facts in the OP. Not trying to defend this but you can't really leave them out because it will give these some context.

In the case of the genetic predisposition case:

-This was said to be a test of the finnish justice system. Particularly whether or not you can say something about an another group of people (the majority) but can't say a similar thing about an another group of people (a minority). In this case a large finnish newspaper had written that "finnish people are genetically predisposed to drinking and violence." Halla-aho wanted to see if you could write something similar about some other group or not. This was even mentioned in the start of the blog post. The whole point was to turn the statement around and see what would happen. He wanted to see what the prosecutor would do. And it seems that while you can make untrue and racist statements about finnish people you can't make similar untrue and racist statements about a minority group.


In the gay man case:

-This was not just a gay person, it was some rough looking dude who came up to him and demanded to give him a blowjob. He didn't give up and kept aggressively insisting on a blowjob in the middle of a street. Not saying what he wrote was okay but I'm not sure what I would feel if someone would basically sexually harass me in the street like that.

This was in 2006 mind you so it's an over a decade old post.

Thanks for putting some context in this.

 

[berzeli]

Yeah well in all honesty it might be prudent to present all the facts in the OP. Not trying to defend this but you can't really leave them out because it will give these some context.

All the facts, sorry, all the facts are in the OP. And whether or not you are or are not trying to defend him, what you are writing is defending him. The context doesn't exactly help, he still wrote those things.

I don't care if he wrote it in a "gay panic" in 2006. He did write it, and it is revolting. That is fact and it's in the OP.
I don't care if he wrote it as an exercise in being an asshole. He did write it, he did get convicted for it. Those are facts and are in the OP.

 

[hiredhand]

While of course didn't want to coalition to continue with halla-aho the new coalition will suck too as they have to bring christians and swedes to it. Gonna sink those few good policies that they were trying to enact with current coalition (loosening the grip of mandatory swedish in schools and passing more sensible alcohol laws).

It is still possible we're gonna have a new election.

I think Kokoomus might actually want a new election because that would probably make them the biggest party in the parliament and make Orpo prime minister.

 

[GCX]

A little background to those not familiar with Finnish politics:

The Finns party was created and led by Timo Soini, a charismatic populist politician, for the past 20 years. The party rose from the ashes of Finnish Rural Party and it's not rooted in far-right ideologies like many other populist parties in Europe. Soini has always been a populist and divisive party leader, but he's not a far-right racist like Halla-aho.

Now that Soini decided to retire, the far-right section took over the Finns Party in one big swoop led by Halla-aho. Soini's legacy was erased in one weekend when pretty much all of the key figures of the party were replaced with far-right alternatives.

Many more moderate members of the party will probably leave and the party will become radicalized and isolated by all the other parties.

Also, their popularity was around 10% before the switch from Soini to Halla-aho. They've been on a downward spiral for the past few years so that's also one reason for their radicalization.

 

[illamap]

All the facts, sorry, all the facts are in the OP. And whether or not you are or are not trying to defend him, what you are writing is defending him. The context doesn't exactly help, he still wrote those things.

I don't care if he wrote it in a "gay panic" in 2006. He did write it, and it is revolting. That is fact and it's in the OP.
I don't care if he wrote it as an exercise in being an asshole. He did write it, he did get convicted for it. Those are facts and are in the OP.

It's just ironic kokoomus allows(ed) convicted assaulter, robber and drunk driver (vapaavuori), who was minister for many years and now mayor of capital, but few provocative blog posts are greater crime over a decade ago with understandable context is against kokoomus' "values", and thus not allowed in cabinet.

 

[L176]

I'm not sure what your point is, especially with regards to it "this is man-hunt most of all".
If there is a new election, it isn't certain that they will get the same amounts of votes and be in the same position as of now.

That's exactly the problem. They wont get as many votes but they will still be in a position to deny both a center-right and a left wing government. Even though the Greens and Social democrats are doing better, i'd guess both blocs are getting some where between 80-90 reps. It despise the Finns party and I wanted to get them out of a governing position even before. I just don't think this is going to make things any better here in the short term at least. We are back to 2011 when you had to make such a broad government that it couldn't get anything done and only helped the Finns to get more power.

 

[berzeli]

That's exactly the problem. They wont get as many votes but they will still be in a position to deny both a center-right and a left wing government. Even though the Greens and Social democrats are doing better, i'd guess both blocs are getting some where between 80-90 reps. It despise the Finns party and I wanted to get them out of a governing position even before. I just don't think this is going to make things any better here in the short term at least. We are back to 2011 when you had to make such a broad government that it couldn't get anything done and only helped the Finns to get more power.

I don't think it is certain that they will remain in a kingmaker type position if there is a new. They could head back to 2007/2008 type numbers (~4%) if Halla-aho ends up being a disaster, I realise that there is a lot of "ifs" in this post but I feel it is a bit early to tell how this will play out.

Also, sorry about confusing you with the person below, I wasn't paying enough attention when I quoted you. However the understandable context here is that you're both Junior Members without avatars and understandable context absolves me of any and all wrongdoing.

It's just ironic kokoomus allows(ed) convicted assaulter, robber and drunk driver (vapaavuori), who was minister for many years and now mayor of capital, but few provocative blog posts are greater crime over a decade ago with understandable context is against kokoomus' "values", and thus not allowed in cabinet.

Why yes, it is far likelier that someone with the same ideological stance as the ruling party/ies is in the cabinet rather than someone with a diverging ideological stance.
They didn't get kicked out for any crimes or blog posts, they got kicked out over ideology. The Finns Party lurched to the right with their election of Halla-aho.

 

[Kassu]

I really wouldn't want to be in this country, if it was lead by a man with statements like this:

Rough translation:

WTF, I've always hated him but didn't know he said something as fucked up as this. Fuck him, I really hope moderate Finns leave the party

 

[smokeandmirrors]

Most Western countries seem to have lost their damn minds in the past year.

I really hope that the facists lose in the long run.

they usually do, but not before a lot of people die :\

 

[Chittagong]

I'll go against the Finnish liberal-left consensus and predict that Finns will gain popularity in the Halla-Aho era. The last thing rural and elder Finland wanted was another centrist agrarian party, which is where Finns gradually slid since they got seats in the government. There is a non-insignificant part of the population in Finland who deeply distrust the liberal-left media (i.e. all media except shitty MV), who distrust EU, and who want tight immigration controls. They won't go away, and they won't suddenly believe in the 'dream'. Many of them lost trust in the Finns after Soini compromised on those topics, as reflected in the recent polling. Getting out of the government and electing Halla-Aho is the party's best chance of remaining relevant, since no other party will share their stance.

 

[L176]

I'll go against the Finnish liberal-left consensus and predict that Finns will gain popularity in the Halla-Aho era. The last thing rural and elder Finland wanted was another centrist agrarian party, which is where Finns gradually slid since they got seats in the government. There is a non-insignificant part of the population in Finland who deeply distrust the liberal-left media (i.e. all media except shitty MV), who distrust EU, and who want tight immigration controls. They won't go away, and they won't suddenly believe in the 'dream'. Many of them lost trust in the Finns after Soini compromised on those topics, as reflected in the recent polling. Getting out of the government and electing Halla-Aho is the party's best chance of remaining relevant, since no other party will share their stance.

I agree... If we don't have new election now, in two years they will have a backing of somewhere between 18-14%. Many left the party after the last election because the Finns weren't tough enough in pushing their policy (also the left-leaners went back to SDP cause of the austerity). Add to that the humongous level of martyrdom the party members feel at the moment.

 

[KillerMan91]

I'll go against the Finnish liberal-left consensus and predict that Finns will gain popularity in the Halla-Aho era. The last thing rural and elder Finland wanted was another centrist agrarian party, which is where Finns gradually slid since they got seats in the government. There is a non-insignificant part of the population in Finland who deeply distrust the liberal-left media (i.e. all media except shitty MV), who distrust EU, and who want tight immigration controls. They won't go away, and they won't suddenly believe in the 'dream'. Many of them lost trust in the Finns after Soini compromised on those topics, as reflected in the recent polling. Getting out of the government and electing Halla-Aho is the party's best chance of remaining relevant, since no other party will share their stance.

Some former supporters might like the new more harsher immigration stance but at the same time Hallo-aho is way way more right wing when it comes also to financial politics than Soini was. Reason why The Finns grew so much under Soini was that they were practically Social Democrats with just a harsher immigration stance. This stole a lot of voters from actual Social Democratic party. Now under Halla-aho they go even further right with immigration stance but at the same time completely flip flop their stance in other politics too.

 

[Monocle]

I really wouldn't want to be in this country, if it was lead by a man with statements like this:

Rough translation:

"As I was standing next to a gay person, I was wondering, if I should take a gun from upstairs, and shoot him in the head. Would the euphoria be big enough, that it would be worth the jailtime? Violence is these times an underrated way of solving problems"

What the fuck? Psychos like this are the reason we still can't feel safe in the world.

Yeah well in all honesty it might be prudent to present all the facts in the OP. Not trying to defend this but you can't really leave them out because it will give these some context.

In the case of the genetic predisposition case:

<snip>

In the gay man case:

-This was not just a gay person, it was some rough looking dude who came up to him and demanded to give him a blowjob. He didn't give up and kept aggressively insisting on a blowjob in the middle of a street. Not saying what he wrote was okay but I'm not sure what I would feel if someone would basically sexually harass me in the street like that.

This was in 2006 mind you so it's an over a decade old post.

Oh well I guess it's just fine to contemplate the "euphoria" you might feel at blowing someone's brains out as long as he was sexually aggressive toward you first.

Sounds to me like this jackass was looking for an excuse.

 

[hipbabboom]

I wonder how high he would score on the psychopath's checklist.

 

[Chittagong]

Some former supporters might like the new more harsher immigration stance but at the same time Hallo-aho is way way more right wing when it comes also to financial politics than Soini was. Reason why The Finns grew so much under Soini was that they were practically Social Democrats with just a harsher immigration stance. This stole a lot of voters from actual Social Democratic party. Now under Halla-aho they go even further right with immigration stance but at the same time completely flip flop their stance in other politics too.

Indeed. To that end, beyond immigration policy, I predict an anti-EU, anti-Euro stance will give them further additional mileage, because it's again such a heretical stance that no other party will want to occupy. I'd wager there are a bunch of centre party supporters who are not massive EU fans.

 

[QuantumSquid]

I really wouldn't want to be in this country, if it was lead by a man with statements like this:

Rough translation:

I can't even begin to describe how terrifying of a quote this is.

 

[jakonovski]

Ha, Halla-Aho didn't even have the balls to come on tv tonight, instead sending his underling. Asshole who only wants to destroy but is too afraid to stand behind his words.

 

[Netherscourge]

I really wouldn't want to be in this country, if it was lead by a man with statements like this:

Rough translation: ""As I was standing next to a gay person, I was wondering, if I should take a gun from upstairs, and shoot him in the head. Would the euphoria be big enough, that it would be worth the jailtime? Violence is these times an underrated way of solving problems""

It's that "I could just shoot someone on the street and nothing would happen" mentality.

 

[Sarek]

I'll go against the Finnish liberal-left consensus and predict that Finns will gain popularity in the Halla-Aho era. The last thing rural and elder Finland wanted was another centrist agrarian party, which is where Finns gradually slid since they got seats in the government. There is a non-insignificant part of the population in Finland who deeply distrust the liberal-left media (i.e. all media except shitty MV), who distrust EU, and who want tight immigration controls. They won't go away, and they won't suddenly believe in the 'dream'. Many of them lost trust in the Finns after Soini compromised on those topics, as reflected in the recent polling. Getting out of the government and electing Halla-Aho is the party's best chance of remaining relevant, since no other party will share their stance.

That popularity won't do much if they can't find any allies. Even if they gain like 25% of the vote, which is extremely unlikely considering the last time that has happened for any party was over two decades ago, they can still be easily ignored by the other parties.

 

[DasPenguin]

I'll go against the Finnish liberal-left consensus and predict that Finns will gain popularity in the Halla-Aho era. The last thing rural and elder Finland wanted was another centrist agrarian party, which is where Finns gradually slid since they got seats in the government. There is a non-insignificant part of the population in Finland who deeply distrust the liberal-left media (i.e. all media except shitty MV), who distrust EU, and who want tight immigration controls. They won't go away, and they won't suddenly believe in the 'dream'. Many of them lost trust in the Finns after Soini compromised on those topics, as reflected in the recent polling. Getting out of the government and electing Halla-Aho is the party's best chance of remaining relevant, since no other party will share their stance.

In short, stupid people. Thankfully our educational system is still good enough to keep those fools in the minority. At least I hope so.