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[plagiarize]

You kind of phrased it in a way that came off as "we could just tell," rather than the child being able to tell, which would explain the confusion.

Well I don't know that they are really aware of what it means to be cisgender, but if you don't force a gender on someone and they start demonstrating behaviours associated with a certain gender I think you can say it's apparent.

Just don't ask me to quantify what it is to be male or female, because I do not feel remotely qualified to approach that subject. But we accept that there are apparent differences I hope, that go beyond liking certain things. Neither of my nieces are what I would call Tom boyish but they aren't girly girls either. If that makes a lick of sense to anyone.

 

[MUnited83]

What if people find being labeled "cis gender" is offensive ? Personally I associate being called cis gender as a slur the LGBT community use towards us. I guess I am not allowed to get offended at a term that has become a slur.

considering the majority of the LGBT community is cis gender, sounds like you're pulling that straight out of your ass. Seems like you just read a anti-LGBT meme somewhere and bought into it.

 

[asagami_]

Honestly if the child is loved and accepted by their parents I don't see any wrong in this. Likely in a few years the child will know what wants, so unless the parents are against the child decision, there isn't need to worry at all.

 

[Timeaisis]

Ok but what sex was the baby.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Those problems kind of are solved by a U though. Nobody can unintentionally misgender the child based on what their birth certificate says, and also nobody can hold the person's birth certificate over their head when anti-trans issues come up if the child ends up being trans or non-binary.

So we are going to keep the kids sex a secret to avoid someone accidentally misgendering them. And when does the child make that decision for themselves? What if they change later on again anyway?

And this is about all registration of the childs sex. So can a doctor put it in their database then, or a school? Because in both cases, it might be useful to have that.

 

[Dice//]

Physical differences between children of different sexes, genitals aside, are much less pronounced before puberty.

Give every eight year old kid the same clothes and haircut and you wouldn't be able to sort them by gender as accurately as you probably think you could.

Hopefully, give their young age, they don't have to worry much about their genitals.

Frankly I'd love to see this blow over in the simplest way. Maybe mystery baby is a boy who identifies themselves as a boy, or vice versa.

Why is this being treated as big a deal as it is? Who cares, let the parents do what they want, at a young age the only BIG ISSUE I see is the kid deciding what toilet to use at school and the occasional dumb bully who needs to have a beef with it.

So we are going to keep the kids sex a secret to avoid someone accidentally misgendering them. And when does the child make that decision for themselves? What if they change later on again anyway?

And this is about all registration of the childs sex. So can a doctor put it in their database then, or a school? Because in both cases, it might be useful to have that.

The first is a non-issue hypothetical we won't know. So why dote on that.

The second, for medical reasons, at least has me hope the doctor is smart enough to maybe not identify gender as the parents request but still take an apparent note if the kid has a penis or a vagina as...y'know kinda critical doctor info. (and I hope the parents aren't dumb enough to disqualify that point on a medical level).

 

[darkinstinct]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40480386



Interested in hearing Gafs take on this.

Bonus:

Great job Koty. Instead of choosing for your kid to be a potentially 50 % weirdo you make sure that it is seen as a 100 % weirdo. Just because you are unable to decide your own gender you now force your kid through the same instead of offering it the childhood it deserves. It will feel isolated and alone and other kids will mock it, because that's what kids do to outsiders. Great fucking job failing as a parent. You're right there with those parrnts that feed their child as a vegan because you decide what's best. With all the effects that has on the childs development because they need variety. There should be a parent's license so these attention seeking morons can no longer harm their children.

 

[plagiarize]

So we are going to keep the kids gender a secret to avoid someone accidentally misgendering them. And when does the child make that decision for themselves? What if they change later on again anyway?

And this is about all registration of the childs sex. So can a doctor put it in their database then, or a school? Because in both cases, it might be useful to have that.

Gender identity isn't something people change multiple times through their life.

The parents are not going to keep the kids gender a secret. Just their sex. So that should their gender not line up with their sex they won't be made to suffer for it, or get forced down a path that makes them feel abnormal before they figure it out.

 

[Izuna]

Just don't ask me to quantify what it is to be male or female, because I do not feel remotely qualified to approach that subject.

Well, not everyone has this issue.

--

side note, I typically correct customers when they say they need a phone case "for a boy/girl" with feminine and masculine because sometimes it helps them know what they mean. I personally wouldn't think a bright blue phone case is very masculine and neither would they, but it's a "for boys" colour.

Outside of that, you're just fussing about.

 

[Daffy Duck]

considering the majority of the LGBT community is cis gendered.

Huh?

I thought cisginder mean you were say born a male and attracted to females.

Every day is a school day.

 

[plagiarize]

Great job Koty. Instead of choosing for your kid to be a potentially 50 % weirdo you make sure that it is seen as a 100 % weirdo. Just because you are unable to decide your own gender you now force your kid through the same instead of offering it the childhood it deserves. It will feel isolated and alone and other kids will mock it, because that's what kids do to outsiders. Great fucking job failing as a parent. You're right there with those parrnts that feed their child as a vegan because you decide what's best. With all the effects that has on the childs development because they need variety. There should be a parent's license so these attention seeking morons can no longer harm their children.

There should be a parent's license so ignorant people who think transgender people are just confused shouldn't be allowed to have children and raise them to be equally ignorant.

 

[TatteredHat]

Not all the time, and most of the time not until puberty.

Intersex people exist, yes, but I don't know where you're getting the bolded part from.

 

[Izuna]

Honestly if the child is loved and accepted by their parents I don't see any wrong in this. Likely in a few years the child will know what wants, so unless the parents are against the child decision, there isn't need to worry at all.

I imagine if that child comes back from kindergarten to say "I am a boy because I have this" the mother will be livid...

 

[SirRattleBalls]

Nope sorry. Male/penis, female/vagina I agree, but man, woman are not restricted by the organs.

Once you have a sex change, feel free to identify with the opposite, until then nope.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Gender identity isn't something people change multiple times through their life.

The parents are not going to keep the kids gender a secret. Just their sex. So that should their gender not line up with their sex they won't be made to suffer for it, or get forced down a path that makes them feel abnormal before they figure it out.

Gender identity also doesn't seem like something a child decides in their first years and this will just add confusion for them.

It just seems like the parent is forcing their choices on the kid here, just as much as someone would when raising them without keeping their sex a secret.

 

[Sunster]

Huh?

I thought cisginder mean you were say born a male and attracted to females.

Every day is a school day.

it means your gender aligns with your sex. it has nothing to do with who you are attracted to.

Gender identity also doesn't seem like something a child decides in their first years and this will just add confusion for them.

It just seems like the parent is forcing their choices on the kid here, just as much as someone would when raising them without keeping their sex a secret.

it actually is.

 

[Laiza]

This is factually wrong. Sexual dimorphisms is a huge research area in paediatric medicine. Sex can dramatically affect predisposition to many infections and autoimmune diseases. Hell, sex is even a prediction of the safety of some transplant operations, to the point that it's not worth the risk for one sex, due to the increased likelihood of death.

That's not even accounting for differences in physical development and behaviour.

I stand corrected.

In that case, however, it is still trivial for a doctor to determine the sex if it is relevant (it usually won't be, and certainly doesn't matter for early vaccinations and other routine medical procedures). The gender is the more important part here and removing the birth certificate as a vector for discrimination is a huge boon to the child, as is, once again, knowing that the parents will support them 100% regardless of what direction they choose to go in.

 

[MazeHaze]

So we are going to keep the kids sex a secret to avoid someone accidentally misgendering them. And when does the child make that decision for themselves? What if they change later on again anyway?

And this is about all registration of the childs sex. So can a doctor put it in their database then, or a school? Because in both cases, it might be useful to have that.

Yes? And when the child makes a decision for themselves, there won't be an issue. Why would they change it once they establish a gender? Even if they're gender fluid, which the parent seems to be, people don't just flip flop back and forth like, "okay, I want to be a man now.....alright enough of that, I'll become a lady" Gender isn't a choice, it's an identity.

I don't see any reason the school would need to know the sex of a student beyond what that student identifies as, and any doctor will be able to tell the sex of this child in any instance where knowing the sex is necessary.

 

[plagiarize]

Huh?

I thought cisginder mean you were say born a male and attracted to females.

Every day is a school day.

And that attitude is one I love. We should all be ready to learn that something isn't what we necessarily thought it was.

 

[Siegcram]

.

Yikes. Just all around yikes.

 

[Dice//]

Great job Koty. Instead of choosing for your kid to be a potentially 50 % weirdo you make sure that it is seen as a 100 % weirdo. Just because you are unable to decide your own gender you now force your kid through the same instead of offering it the childhood it deserves. It will feel isolated and alone and other kids will mock it, because that's what kids do to outsiders. Great fucking job failing as a parent. You're right there with those parrnts that feed their child as a vegan because you decide what's best. With all the effects that has on the childs development because they need variety. There should be a parent's license so these attention seeking morons can no longer harm their children.

Like what? That they can watch My Little Pony? That they can wear pink? Maybe in high school this will be a bigger issue, but I honestly believe a good teacher can introduce this kid to a good and friendly environment.

A lot of what you're saying is hypothetical.

Growing up, many children have had to deal with gender issues because theirs wasn't a 1:1 match with what society gender dictates about their biological sex. These parents are allowing a free venue to explore that without the pressure.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Huh?

I thought cisginder mean you were say born a male and attracted to females.

Every day is a school day.

..?? No.

Cisgender just means the opposite of transgender; that your gender matches the sex you were assigned at birth. It has nothing to do with sexual orientation. You can be a cisgender and gay.

 

[Ketkat]

Great job Koty. Instead of choosing for your kid to be a potentially 50 % weirdo you make sure that it is seen as a 100 % weirdo. Just because you are unable to decide your own gender you now force your kid through the same instead of offering it the childhood it deserves. It will feel isolated and alone and other kids will mock it, because that's what kids do to outsiders. Great fucking job failing as a parent. You're right there with those parrnts that feed their child as a vegan because you decide what's best. With all the effects that has on the childs development because they need variety. There should be a parent's license so these attention seeking morons can no longer harm their children.

Once you have a sex change, feel free to identify with the opposite, until then nope.

Nice, we got some classic transphobia getting more blatant in here. $10 they still don't get banned because they never do for saying this stuff about us

 

[Alienfan]

Great job Koty. Instead of choosing for your kid to be a potentially 50 % weirdo you make sure that it is seen as a 100 % weirdo. Just because you are unable to decide your own gender you now force your kid through the same instead of offering it the childhood it deserves. It will feel isolated and alone and other kids will mock it, because that's what kids do to outsiders. Great fucking job failing as a parent. You're right there with those parrnts that feed their child as a vegan because you decide what's best. With all the effects that has on the childs development because they need variety. There should be a parent's license so these attention seeking morons can no longer harm their children.

According to virtually every Dietetic Association in the world your wrong about the vegan part.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Yes? And when the child makes a decision for themselves, there won't be an issue. Why would they change it once they establish a gender? Even if they're gender fluid, which the parent seems to be, people don't just flip flop back and forth like, "okay, I want to be a man now.....alright enough of that, I'll become a lady" Gender isn't a choice, it's an identity.

I don't see any reason the school would need to know the sex of a student beyond what that student identifies as, and any doctor will be able to tell the sex of this child in any instance where knowing the sex is necessary.

Yes, it isn't a choice. But the parent here acts like it is.

 

[psyfi]

Nice. In the future, I hope we raise all kids genderless and just let them be who they are.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Once you have a sex change, feel free to identify with the opposite, until then nope.

Well I mean, you're wrong, so yeah. You do not need to get a sex change to identify as a different gender, and thank goodness for that. It'd basically just be declaring that only well-to-do trans people matter.

There should be a parent's license

You may as well have just said "eugenics am I right" lmao

This concept will absolutely not fly for the fact that it would be abused for selection reasons.

Plus, this whole thing is so relatively innocuous compared to a lot of actual abuse that children suffer. I certainly hope that your view of "there should be a parent's license" is determined by more than this.

 

[InfiniteBento]

wont someone please assign this poor baby a gender otherwise it will surely suffer from the lack there of 🙄

The amount of horse shit im reading in here from people who cannot grasp the concept of raising a child without gender is outstanding

 

[Laiza]

Nice, we got some classic transphobia getting more blatant in here. $10 they still don't get banned because they never do for saying this stuff about us

Seriously. I'm about to bow the fuck out of this thread, because this is more than I can deal with right now.

Can't believe the shit I'm reading.

 

[Siegcram]

According to virtually every Dietetic Association in the world your wrong about the vegan part.

Don't worry, they're wrong in the other parts too.

 

[Daffy Duck]

..?? No.

Cisgender just means the opposite of transgender; that your gender matches the sex you were assigned at birth. It has nothing to do with sexual orientation. You can be a cisgender and gay.

Got it, thought it encompassed everything that you also conformed to expected traits like being attracted to females/males respectively.

I will also admit that I did think it was a slur term from what I have seen around the internet in the past.

 

[Servbot24]

The lawyer's name triggers me.

Me too to be honest. Same reaction I get when a band calls themselves w///AT++/w or some shit

 

[Izuna]

Once you have a sex change, feel free to identify with the opposite, until then nope.

It's a very expensive and difficult process (in terms of approval). Not everyone can jet to Thailand and get what they want. I don't believe the NHS pays for the operation unless you prove you are transgender for a couple of years, right?

I doubt it's some free operation in Canada.

wont someone please assign this poor baby a gender otherwise it will surely suffer from the lack there of ��

The amount of horse shit im reading in here from people who cannot grasp the concept of raising a child without gender is outstanding

I like that you think it's some "basic concept".

 

[MazeHaze]

Yes, it isn't a choice. But the parent here acts like it is.

no they don't? They just aren't forcing a gender on them and allowing the child to identify themselves as who they are.

 

[MUnited83]

Huh?

I thought cisginder mean you were say born a male and attracted to females.

Every day is a school day.

Cisgender just means your gender identity matches your sex. It's not related to sexual orientation in any way.

 

[Ascenion]

My question was "the kid told you or you assumed because she liked playing dolls/he liked playing with cars" ?

Ideally you're properly socializing the child in respect to the biological sex and that socialization doesn't go smoothly. Around the time the child starts noticing that isn't who they are, an attentive parent will also begin to notice so you can start a discussion with your kid and choose the best path forward for them.

 

[Sunster]

Got it, thought it encompassed everything that you also conformed to expected traits like being attracted to females/males respectively.

I will also admit that I did think it was a slur term from what I have seen around the internet in the past.

it's definitely not.

 

[Dice//]

Gender identity also doesn't seem like something a child decides in their first years and this will just add confusion for them.

It just seems like the parent is forcing their choices on the kid here, just as much as someone would when raising them without keeping their sex a secret.

You'd be surprised. My fetish is something I've "known about" on some level since I was like 5, and my "tomboy"isms have been around since forever in that I've never-ever liked very girly clothing.

I'm a girl, I identify as one, but I've never been able to say I'm a Barbie/10 level of girl either.

More wide spread "force" is when parents refuse to allow give about their child. Why their son wants to dance instead of do sports, or why their daughter's avoid dancing so they can play sports. The point is not to think that way.

 

[Servbot24]

Yes, it isn't a choice. But the parent here acts like it is.

It may not be a choice but only the child can make the determination of their identity.

 

[glimmerman]

This whole thing just looks like desperate attentionseeking by both parent and lawyer.

 

[MazeHaze]

It's a very expensive and difficult process (in terms of approval). Not everyone can jet to Thailand and get what they want. I don't believe the NHS pays for the operation unless you prove you are transgender for a couple of years, right?

I doubt it's some free operation in Canada.



I like that you think it's some "basic concept".

Not all trans gender people want sex reassignment surgery, for many reasons.

And it is a pretty basic concept.

 

[SirRattleBalls]

Nice, we got some classic transphobia getting more blatant in here. $10 they still don't get banned because they never do for saying this stuff about us

Big words with little meaning here, dont project your personal views on others to simply adopt. The matter is subjective, as gender politics is becoming a more varied talking point. Thats just how i see the world, i respect how you see it and i dont throw around phobic words, its abit infantile.

Well I mean, you're wrong, so yeah. You do not need to get a sex change to identify as a different gender, and thank goodness for that. It'd basically just be declaring that only well-to-do trans people matter.

I also view it the same for people that make an effort if they cant afford surgery, if you make the effort to look it then yeah, i can get with it.

 

[Rival]

I didn't realize this was something I could choose. I think I'm going to start spelling my name with all capital letters.

 

[Alcotholic]

Just a few thoughts:
-I wonder how the government will manage this if it becomes a trend.
-I don't have a deep enough understanding of government documentation to understand what affect this will have.
-I understand why some people conflate sex and gender, but they shouldn't. It's ultimately a baseline for their biological growth and provides an explanation for many things they are going through.

 

[Sunster]

This whole thing just looks like desperate attentionseeking by both parent and lawyer.

I'm curious as to why you assume that?

 

[plagiarize]

Gender identity also doesn't seem like something a child decides in their first years and this will just add confusion for them.

It just seems like the parent is forcing their choices on the kid here, just as much as someone would when raising them without keeping their sex a secret.

Most studies suggest otherwise.

Check out this article on the matter:

This is something that children seem to know early on, but that most discard as they begin to learn about basic anatomy and incorporate that information into their own gender identities.

We often think of children’s thinking as immature, but it may be that preschoolers are actually way ahead of their time.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Me too to be honest. Same reaction I get when a band calls themselves w///AT++/w or some shit

...It's just lowercase spelling. Christ. It's not like it's hard to say/pronounce or whatever. I think it's weird and silly, but it's literally a non-issue...

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Are we forgetting primary sexual characteristics, because I think you're forgetting them.
Sex can be easily defined by the sexual organs you have, so yes, sex can be easily defined at birth.



Nope sorry. Male/penis, female/vagina I agree, but man, woman are not restricted by the organs.

And when they have intersex organs? Or ambiguous sexual organs?

You're assumption that kids have easily identifiable sexual organs 100% of the time is simply wrong, and plenty of kids have had their sex wrongly identified or simply changed because of social norms at birth because of the opinion of a doctor who takes a look and decides.

There are cases where the doctor literally tells the parents to not tell anyone the child is born, because once you label a kid with a gender and tell everyone, good luck changing that with family and friends.
That's a bit drastic, usually they tell parents to avoid gender descriptions and just use the neutral descriptions

Jack's specific diagnosis is rare, but being born with a blend of female and male characteristics is surprisingly common: worldwide, up to 1.7% of people have intersex traits, roughly the same proportion of the population who have red hair, according to the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights. The British charity DSD Families estimates that around 130 babies born in this country each year need investigations before their sex is assigned. Other people may have problems with their hormones that aren't visible at birth.

So no, this issue is not uncommon enough to hand wave away and declare that all children have easily identifiable sexual organs at birth.

 

[Dice//]

I didn't realize this was something I could choose. I think I'm going to start spelling my name with all capital letters.

 

[SoRuffShoNuff]

I can easily see this being a situation where the parent causes all sorts of issues the kid wants nothing to do with. Such as I'm school they do some sort of activity that separated the kid by sex and the parent shows up and makes a mountain out of a mole hill.