Costanza-san
Banned
This does the complete fucking opposite of taking away their choice. The whole point is giving the child the choice to be whoever they feel they are with as few restrictions as possible.
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First baby born without a gender in Canada
- Thread starter CoolOff
- Start date
glimmerman
Member
All they have to do is Google this kids unique name.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
...If biological sex is necessary for running tests and diagnosis on that child, the physician has another way of knowing that information other than a letter on an ID card. Christ.
Doesn't the reverse then apply aswell? What influence does the certificate have on the child's gender if barely anyone gets to see it anyway.
I mean, the parent could be anti-vax, so it's not so bad for them.
Also, we're playing right into the parents hands here, calling the baby "them" and "the baby". So maybe it's working lol (at least, until the baby beings to express sex specific features)
it was a joke, we all know r. l. stine wrote the Pooh series.
Interframe
Member
Yeah as opposed to the kind of parents many LGBTQ kids around the world get who want them dead for who they are, are closed-minded and abusive and lead to the kids committing or attempting suicide?
But Clearly these are the worst kind of parents. Yeah totally.
benicillin
Banned
I have no idea because I'm not sure what the Canadian government uses this information for, but if the idea is to leave it open for any possibility, leaving it blank seems like...not that big of a deal. Again, the medically relevant information can be figured out *very easily by any trained medical professional.*
EdibleKnife
Member
Every child is literally subject to the agenda of the parents when they're born. From food to entertainment to religion all the way to gender and how they're "meant" to portray it from the perspective of the parents. No child in history has had the first word in terms of their upbringing in general. What makes this any different or worse when the parent literally already said they're ready to accept whatever avenue their child chooses once they reach that point of comprehending what gender they'd like to present? Especially in comparison to some parents who would outright emotionally or physically retaliate against a child choosing to go against gender norms.
Playmaster
Banned
TheDarkLord
Banned
Yes you are 100% right to think that, each to their own. But if someone does not agree with that calling them transphobic is a clear over reach and actually misses the point and it does more to distract from the actual social issues then anything.
"identify with a gender different from the one you were born"
if you are not born "none" than identifying as none is different than what you are born
It simply goes against logic. Biological sex is identifiable, everyone agrees on that. The birth certificate states the biological sex. Why should government documentation now suddenly act like you can't identify the biological sex?
Astral Dog
Member
Yeah of course i agree we should have better education at the very least (here is very ,um closed/catholic)
im not sure what you mean but i think she is afraid of young boys entering girls restrooms or something like that, it was an uncomfortable conversation because she is the most 'liberal' in the family.
yeah i hope regardless of 'pick your genre' they still teach more about this stuff in school here because its important and because of course 'fuck the sexual minorities they don't exist' mentality is toxic and isn't working anyways, it would have helped me growing up :'(
UnemployedVillain
Member
It's not an ID card. From what I've read from Googling it isn't something a person would have to show to anyone, except for whenever they're getting medical treatment (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
That sex identification is no different than any other pertinent medical information or history that might be written for a person. Yes a medical professional has other ways of knowing that information, but I can still envision it possibly being important
AmaterasuOkami076
Member
They're forcing the kid to be different is my point. Its pointless hassle. Kids at school will latch on to anything at school. That's gifting them ammo on a plate.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
I said a bad draw, not the worst. Hope that helps.
soundahfekz
Member
UoT gives no fucks
😂😂😂
I guess that sort of makes sense if we were talking about [biological] sex, but under the understanding that Gender is a social construct is it because at one point they did identify as being of a gender?
Audioboxer
Member
Cmon, do a bit of reading then
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Gender-dysphoria/Pages/Introduction.aspx
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria
In the sense that 3 is a number but outside of the binary 1 and 0
Dysphoria is based on the perception of your own body.
saying people of any gender can have lots of possible (including masculine and feminine) bodies actualy decrease dysphoria a little
These parents don't appear to be helping the sex/gender confusion with this choice. Unless that was a typo in the article.
Other than that, I say run! Be free, ambiguous baby!
Other than that, I say run! Be free, ambiguous baby!
I hate this way of looking at data and polls. Oh, 54% of younger people are okay with transgender people? Splendid. I guess the 46% that aren't will just keep to themselves since they are a slight minority in a poll.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
You're assuming the kid won't have an identity and by the time school starts it will be walking around in grey cloths and will tell everyone how it doesn't have a gender and won't be labeled and bla bla bla.
When what's actually going to happen is the kid will find things it likes, cloths it likes, wear that and most likely this won't be an issue except for people on the internet thinking the kid is going to be a literal blank slate by the time it's going to school.
EdibleKnife
Member
If it's against logic then let it be against logic. The kid will still be a citizen and be able to be medically treated despite being unidentified on their birth certificate and at some point, will be able to identify themselves however they wish on a multitude of documentation. What else actually matters at that point beyond the fact that bureaucrats who read their certificate it might be confused for 5 seconds?
Captain Smoker
Member
So, what if they have "less choice", like me or most of humanity that is raised in a certain cultural fashion?
People here act like it's everything or nothing or that children who are raised in a "classic fashion" are doomed to never find their true self, which is a generalization that I certainly can't agree on, especially because this whole topic affects a small amount of the population.
As I already said there is more important stuff to teach children than micro-managing products that represent or not represent their gender: honesty, self confidence, kindness, critical thinking, etc.
spazchicken
Member
Was the kid born with no defining sexual organs?
Nice little experiment. I hope they keep track/catch up down the road so we can see how it turns out.
Nice little experiment. I hope they keep track/catch up down the road so we can see how it turns out.
TheDarkLord
Banned
Yes, every child is subject to some agenda in the sense, i can agree with you there. So take me for example i'm raising a kid now, his 3 years old, and already likes Thomas the tank engine and Ben 10. To me his growing up to be a man, Infact im raising him the same way my parents raised me ( Parents are African). And i turned out perfectly fine, I'm a straight male man. However i did at one point in time have sex with a trans person to see if i liked it. It was not what i expected it to be and i stuck to women from then on. I made that choice when i got curious and i'm happy i did. That's how i would raise my child. As the gender/sex they are given at birth and let them make their own mind up when they get to that age.
benicillin
Banned
I see nothing wrong with this, no one is harmed by a detail in a birth certificate. A piece of documentation that wont really be relevant to the child until adulthood where they can change the sex from the neutral position its in right now.
It just that now if the kids sex doesn't translate to their gender identity, they don't have to go through the process of changing it as they transition.
I don't see anything but a net positive out of this.
It just that now if the kids sex doesn't translate to their gender identity, they don't have to go through the process of changing it as they transition.
I don't see anything but a net positive out of this.
re-read this sentence please
Anything else to add?
CrackPebbles
Member
Yeah this is how I see it.
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
I'm sorry, but this topic isn't a daily occurrence for me.
TheDarkLord
Banned
I did, i'm failing to see your point.
Skellig Gra
Member
I think you overestimate the average persons exposure to topics like this.
The thing is tho thst this kid will absolutely by classified/gender by its peers/teachers/etc so if a transition were to be required they would still have to go through it.
It shouldn't. It should state the sex
Rather, terminology could change to be more sensitive to the fact that sex and gender are different. The terms are mostly interchangeable for most that don't really think about this. The move to not put it on the birth certificate is really to bring that to the forefront I think.
This doesn't seem like much of a reason. It only adds to the misconception of sex = gender
This case sure isn't helping with that as it describes the sex as undetermined which is nonsense.
you are either saying you had sex with a trans men or that trans women are not women.
EdibleKnife
Member
OK? So you were raised as a man and so was I and we both turned out fine. These parents simply have decided to make a different decision. Their child will grow up liking whatever they'd like. They will one day reconcile with the idea of gender and decide for themselves where they fit on that spectrum and the parents will be fully behind them no matter their decision. What is the inherent problem with their approach to not assign a gender at birth and let them still make up their own mind when the time comes?
UnemployedVillain
Member
It's odd that the BBC writer seemed to screw this up, both using the explicit "sex" as stated on the health card, but using "gender" is the headline.
I hadn't thought about this before
TheDarkLord
Banned
Oh, Transwoman
Defining "trans person" as some other rather than the gender she clearly identifies as ("woman") is transphobic behavior.
A trans woman is a woman, same as any other woman. At most you should clarify "trans woman" but calling her a "trans person" and then in the same breath referring to a cis woman as "woman" is pretty not OK.
AmaterasuOkami076
Member
What I had in mind is the child being who they want to be anyway and not understanding until they're older why their parents decided to give them a different start than all the other kids.
It's not a huge difference. I get that. The kid isn't going to be wearing a tag around their neck saying "Look at me! I don't conform to your standards of gender" and I'm glad that kids are becoming more accepting of those who aren't cisgender, but it still seems unnecessary to me to take this step at birth.
People disagree with me, that's cool. Opinions and all that.