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First Image of the new Sailor Moon Anime Revealed
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But he throws roses with such intensity!
KDash31987
Member
Totally boss.
Yeah, Tuxedo Mask doesn't really do anything by himself. But without him, the scouts would've died a million times over.
It's not really germane to the comparison I was making beyond the fact that it isn't the show's fault if people misconstrue shit as being "pandering." Look over in that thread about Spongebob where the writers say "Yeah he and Pat aren't gay, no matter how gay the situation is." People gonna see shit as they see it. And I'm going to have to really ask how a show about girls making a band is any more pandering toward ephebophiles than Josie and the Pussycats Archie comics are. There's some pretty wild generalizations going on here.
Then I think you're taking this more seriously than you should be, certainly more seriously than I am, and more seriously than a discussion of cartoons requires, and construing the word punishment to be more severe than I had really meant for it to be.
Well it doesn't. Just calling these shots as I see 'em.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Prax basically summarizes my feelings about some of the dishonesty I perceive in shows like K-On but usually feel to nervous to type out. So, uhm, cool.
The show, and shows like it, are something a lot of people car significantly about. If its something that is cared about, if its something people are invested in, its worth taking seriously.
The show, and shows like it, are something a lot of people car significantly about. If its something that is cared about, if its something people are invested in, its worth taking seriously.
I can't say I agree, because the way people are acting isn't the kind of "serious" that I'd say is very respectful of stuff people are invested in. If you're launching accusations of pedophilia at people without some good means of backing that up, then there's no conversation to be had, only witch trials.
It's fine to debate, to disagree, and to get heated, but some of the accusations I've seen in this thread reflect poorly on people I know are capable of better discussions.
Have you actually watchdd either show? There's something sleazy about K-On that nothing Nickelodeon produces can even approach.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Prax has touched on some of the things that back up accusations of...okay, I wouldn't call it pedophilia, that's too strong and I don't think its accurate, but I would call it innocence-fetishism, namely the way the show frames some of the characters movement and emphasizes their bodies and physical closeness contrasted with their truly almost infantile mannerisms, and a portion of the additional media and memorabilia produced surrounding the show that seems to serve that fetishism. Is it enough to say the show "caters to" or "panders to" a certain crowd? No, probably not. But its an undercurrent there and you'll have a hard time convincing me its not a deliberate one.
I haven't seen K-On, no, but I have seen some implicitly skeezy stuff coming off some of those Nick shows.
Well sure, and if everyone were able to discuss things using that vocabulary, the discussion could go better, but launching accusations of this nature are anathema to good discussion, because right off the foot you've got people on the defensive. I wouldn't call that taking things seriously. I mean, you can only expect so much on a website where people routinely think it's okay to judge something about someone based upon their avatar, but I really think we can do better than this thread has done.
Crash Station
Member
Yeah, I guess that makes sense.
Really, I've interacted with the fanbases of these kinds of things enough to know the wide range of reasons why people consider whatever cute, whether it be a legitimately innocent level of affection or sexualization. At this point, the phrase "that's just creepy" doesn't enter my mind. Maybe I'm just desensitized after experiencing stuff with elements of some of these things without being the focus (like Saya no Uta for the horror or Kill la Kill for the action), but the way these threads go is pretty mentally taxing at this point, especially considering this is a Sailor Moon thread and not a "anime is dead because of K-on" thread.
In my opinion, accusations of pedophilia are most definitely crossing the line when talking about cartoons of all things .
Messofanego
Banned
Huh, didn't know K-ON attracted that kind of audience, but then show looked worthless so never watched it to care.
Back when I was living in USA Michigan 2002 for a couple of years, we had an aerial and would mess around with it to suddenly find cartoons on one channel. The reception was terrible, but the first cartoon was Sailor Moon. My sister and I liked it, probably cause it was the only entertaining thing on. Then she went into Cardcaptor Sakura and sadly CLAMP rubbish.
That said, X was not awful and Tokyo Babylon had one hell of an earworm ("Strawberry Kiss Kiss").
Back when I was living in USA Michigan 2002 for a couple of years, we had an aerial and would mess around with it to suddenly find cartoons on one channel. The reception was terrible, but the first cartoon was Sailor Moon. My sister and I liked it, probably cause it was the only entertaining thing on. Then she went into Cardcaptor Sakura and sadly CLAMP rubbish.
That said, X was not awful and Tokyo Babylon had one hell of an earworm ("Strawberry Kiss Kiss").
I'm about halfway through the manga and there's a lot more to the series than I initially thought. Sailor Neptune and Sailor Uranus have just been introduced and I already like them a lot. I'm looking forward to this new anime since I missed out on the original.
Also...Why are we talking about K-ON and pedophilia again?
Also...Why are we talking about K-ON and pedophilia again?
Cos anime.
Prax
Member
Not all otaku get labelled as bordering on fetishisizing innocence. There are different types of otaku!
It just happens to share a border or some gray area with pedophilia (young girls + fetish [or appeal pandering maybe as a lighter term for fetishism] of something about them) so that's why everyone's red flags go off. But I think for myself, I have made my points pretty clear. And due to sleep-deprivation-induced inhibition, have managed to sum up a lot of thoughts of what people feel deep inside their hearts when they see a K-On group glomp.
A lot of the aversion is probably subconscious. You gotta search for why, but I don't think a lot of people wanna spend time digging up why they don't like fetishisization of innocent girls who act like babies. And people not good with words sometimes. I don't know if there is some shota (little boy) version of this stuff for girls to watch, and I am not sure I wanna know, but I think part of it is because the culture does not as actively encourage the objectification of cute little boys (for now..?).
I mean go look up Idol culture in Japan (or Korea I guess lol). REALLY look--and then check out Idol Master/visual novel culture! And then maybe you will see how K-On shares some unsettling undercurrent with them.
Have you ever witnessed idol culture with fans watching their slice-of-life antics and fetishizing their innocence or nobility or appeal and then the fanshipping and fanfiction? Everything that's popular (and some niche) has this kind of extreme insular hole of weird to it powered by obsessive fans, but then you realize some certain media actually propagates or encourages it. And unfortunately (for people like me who don't like that stuff), K-On is one of the things that does that (though I will note, not as bad/explicitly gross as others and with higher quality of subtlety! So EVERYONE can "enjoy" but ESPECIALLY some someones).
I don't want to go into too intense a discussion of the real reason why I dislike it so, because it has to do with sexism/gender representation/objectification/feminism stuff and that type of thing goes down so stupid on gaf most of the time so I saved all my ammo for this Sailormoon thread hahaha.
So I really hope Sailormoon knows who's its audience SHOULD be, and I hope they don't think it should be obsessive-type otaku. lol For their own sake. And for the sake of the show. So that I may enjoy it more.
My cousin and I are deciding to ignore how ugly the poster art is, because usually promotional poster art stinks, and hope that the actual execution of the show will look better.
It just happens to share a border or some gray area with pedophilia (young girls + fetish [or appeal pandering maybe as a lighter term for fetishism] of something about them) so that's why everyone's red flags go off. But I think for myself, I have made my points pretty clear. And due to sleep-deprivation-induced inhibition, have managed to sum up a lot of thoughts of what people feel deep inside their hearts when they see a K-On group glomp.
A lot of the aversion is probably subconscious. You gotta search for why, but I don't think a lot of people wanna spend time digging up why they don't like fetishisization of innocent girls who act like babies. And people not good with words sometimes. I don't know if there is some shota (little boy) version of this stuff for girls to watch, and I am not sure I wanna know, but I think part of it is because the culture does not as actively encourage the objectification of cute little boys (for now..?).
I mean go look up Idol culture in Japan (or Korea I guess lol). REALLY look--and then check out Idol Master/visual novel culture! And then maybe you will see how K-On shares some unsettling undercurrent with them.
Have you ever witnessed idol culture with fans watching their slice-of-life antics and fetishizing their innocence or nobility or appeal and then the fanshipping and fanfiction? Everything that's popular (and some niche) has this kind of extreme insular hole of weird to it powered by obsessive fans, but then you realize some certain media actually propagates or encourages it. And unfortunately (for people like me who don't like that stuff), K-On is one of the things that does that (though I will note, not as bad/explicitly gross as others and with higher quality of subtlety! So EVERYONE can "enjoy" but ESPECIALLY some someones).
I don't want to go into too intense a discussion of the real reason why I dislike it so, because it has to do with sexism/gender representation/objectification/feminism stuff and that type of thing goes down so stupid on gaf most of the time so I saved all my ammo for this Sailormoon thread hahaha.
So I really hope Sailormoon knows who's its audience SHOULD be, and I hope they don't think it should be obsessive-type otaku. lol For their own sake. And for the sake of the show. So that I may enjoy it more.
My cousin and I are deciding to ignore how ugly the poster art is, because usually promotional poster art stinks, and hope that the actual execution of the show will look better.
The Silver
Member
Prax has summed up everything nice and neat with a bow on top, good work.
No way in hell they'll try to appeal to the otaku crowd. lol
The original creator, Naoko Takeuchi (happy birthday to her), wouldn't allow it.
Isn't that kind of redundant? I mean otaku already means that someone is obsessive
Box of Bunnies
Banned
Being a useless goof and being a boss aren't mutually exclusive as long as you're stylish about it.
MaschinenZimmer had it right. This forum has become a powderkeg of moral panic and almost irresistible to stirring the pot just to see everyone explode over the worst sort of guilt by association. It's not even actual wrongdoing that people are enraged about, as anime fans most certainly not raping children as the rhetoric would imply, but nebulous and vague notions of unacceptability that involve both hypocrisy and misattribution. Yes, many are socially awkward and have weird interests. That's because they're male nerds. Once we can return to acknowledging this maybe threads can have actual discussion again instead of constantly being shut down like it's the Catholic League proclaiming boycotts of Disney films or evangelicals proclaiming the satanism in Dungeons and Dragons.
With regard to K-ON, it's actually not as simple as many would like, as you're actually referring to three different iterations. The original manga was most certainly targeted to the otaku audience, but the adaptation by Kyoto Animation--with female director Naoko Yamada and female lead writer Reiko Yoshida--progressively reworked the material. In the first anime, you still had moments that have the male viewer in mind, but in the second anime it goes completely off the source manga with significant changes in tone and structure. Overall, even considering said moments in the first season the overwhelming impression you get watching the actual show is that it's pretty damn inoffensive for all the wild reactions produced by it. In fact, Disney Channel in Japan picked up the show for broadcast for a time, and according to one published set of statistics (1 2), women made up a third of its viewing audience, with similar age distribution. Anecdotal reports from this forum also attest to a large female following in the movie's theatrical release in Japan.
Regardless, that all of this angst and hand-wringing be attached to Sailor Moon, a property that has been wildly successful in multiple countries, not just America and Japan, and across age and gender lines is an absolute disgrace.
With regard to K-ON, it's actually not as simple as many would like, as you're actually referring to three different iterations. The original manga was most certainly targeted to the otaku audience, but the adaptation by Kyoto Animation--with female director Naoko Yamada and female lead writer Reiko Yoshida--progressively reworked the material. In the first anime, you still had moments that have the male viewer in mind, but in the second anime it goes completely off the source manga with significant changes in tone and structure. Overall, even considering said moments in the first season the overwhelming impression you get watching the actual show is that it's pretty damn inoffensive for all the wild reactions produced by it. In fact, Disney Channel in Japan picked up the show for broadcast for a time, and according to one published set of statistics (1 2), women made up a third of its viewing audience, with similar age distribution. Anecdotal reports from this forum also attest to a large female following in the movie's theatrical release in Japan.
Regardless, that all of this angst and hand-wringing be attached to Sailor Moon, a property that has been wildly successful in multiple countries, not just America and Japan, and across age and gender lines is an absolute disgrace.
I sure hope you're not equating Cardcaptor Sakura with the word "rubbish". CLAMP did some pretty questionable work before and after, no question, but CCS is quality.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Woah woah woah whats this whole pedo thing with k-on?
Was this person banned for this? Please say yes. D:
Absolutely nothing. Background noise.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Good to know
Messofanego
Banned
I mean, that's what it comes down to. When you hear that it's the crazy otakus who are the biggest customers of some material, they become like investors, and then it's inevitable some shows pander to that crowd to keep the customer happy. A normal fan won't buy all the really expensive import DVDs or collectors stuff. That might explain why there are so many animes that have saturated the market and also are unappealing to people like me. It's the same with K-pop and J-pop culture where the biggest fans are also the more sketchy kind who stalk the stars (I've heard it's more fangirls than fanboys) down to their houses and do questionable acts enough for laws to come into place. Not pandering to your biggest fans seems like a hard thing to do.
Jex
Member
Thank your for the sanity.
I bet they will considering that the Moon Brooch on the picture looks like in the manga.
Femmeworth
Banned
The hips part?
PoemOfTheLastMoment
Banned
I think these are the funniest 'Sailor-moon' related videos i've seen on Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTH2HiTRjYA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35hNcorE00k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTH2HiTRjYA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35hNcorE00k
Messofanego
Banned
These are amazing. Sailor Pluto lol.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Exactly. It is goddamn background noise. Its background noise in so many goddamn japanese games I play. Its background noise in a ridiculous amount of anime I watch, bits of fanservice here, hints of sexuality there, often with regards to younger or more innocent characters, and its something that I don't really see out of other media to such a high degree. And while this thread was certainly derailed by it, I think its a conversation thats important to have and it seems like there's never going to be a good place to have a conversation about it because every single attempt to say something like "some of the ways this piece of media frames its female characters seems a bit skeevy" is met as an accusation of "OMG YOU ARE ALL PEDOPHILE DEVIANTS". I've been talking about it in here so much just because it was finally somewhere where it seemed like a couple other people were also trying to articulate similar viewpoints, but we all know how well a dedicated thread to the subject would go.
Meesh
Member
Same, I'm a huge "Moonie" and can't wait for this reboot. I've recently got the manga so if the art and story reflects this I'll be happy.
I would suggest being able to articulate more clear and informed points, lest you become confused with people who actually ARE making such accusations. Your tone is a little disingenuous on that account.
Messofanego
Banned
Same, I'm a huge "Moonie" and can't wait for this reboot. I've recently got the manga so if the art and story reflects this I'll be happy.
"Moonie" is to do with a Korean religion, huh interesting.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I haven't called anyone a pedophile here. I've said that I dislike the dishonesty demonstrated in some aspects of K-On (and in similar media, but K-On is a good example precisely because of how popular and well known it is) by both creators and a section of the fandom between its surface intentions as an utterly innocent show and something more...fetishized. I hesitate to even call it sexualized, although that's part of it, fetishized does seem like the more appropriate word.
Again, you're not entirely off as that's the influence of the source material, but one that gets reduced with each step.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Sure, but this entire discussion was sparked by a poster who wished the Sailor Moon reboot looked more like K-On and then posted the "dem hips" gif
He was trolling, and obviously so. My point was that this has become such a kneejerk issue that such a bait is much too effective.
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