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[parrotbeak]

There is a reason you get a massage from a human and not a machine. You don't see the problem in giving yourself a massage with what amounts to be $1 worth of foam and plastic.

The profit margin on these is insane and you have people in every gym giving word of mouth testimonials with no evidence.

I control the pressure and where it goes. I wouldn't use a chair massager that just pushes in a pre-programmed pattern, but I would use a tool that I have control over to hit pressure points and knots. Hawaiians (and I'm sure other people) have used curved sticks to give themselves back massages for generations.

The benefits of massage therapy from another person don't have much hard scientific evidence either.

I'm sure the profit margin is insane, but I don't have the ability to make something like this myself. Or if I did it would be a piece of shit.

 

[Dany]

Does anyone here use meal replacement bars? I havn't had those probars but everyone is loving them

 

[MickeyKnox]

There is a reason you get a massage from a human and not a machine. You don't see the problem in giving yourself a massage with what amounts to be $1 worth of foam and plastic.

The profit margin on these is insane and you have people in every gym giving word of mouth testimonials with no evidence.

You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

You can see how effective self-myofascial release is literally on the spot. Test your range of motion in a bilateral lift, hammer out one side and test again, you'll note the difference quite easily.

Using a barbel to work the fascia above your elbow is like pressing a magic button to fix your rack position on the front squat/snatch.

 

[shira]

I control the pressure and where it goes. I wouldn't use a chair massager that just pushes in a pre-programmed pattern, but I would use a tool that I have control over to hit pressure points and knots. Hawaiians (and I'm sure other people) have used curved sticks to give themselves back massages for generations.

The benefits of massage therapy from another person don't have much hard scientific evidence either.

I'm sure the profit margin is insane, but I don't have the ability to make something like this myself. Or if I did it would be a piece of shit.

You can't tell if your muscle is tense. That's why it is tense. If you could relax it you wouldn't need a massage or a roller.

The masseuse/chiro/pt relaxes the muscle because they know what they are doing. The roller is basically you assuming you are smarter than a masseuse/chiro/pt and can do it manually with a cheap piece of plastic. I agree that massage is not perfect but if I palpate your shoulder I can tell exactly which muscle is tense. If you are using a roller how do you isolate that single muscle - it is a bulldozer approach when you need fine touch.

You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

You can see how effective self-myofascial release is literally on the spot. Test your range of motion in a bilateral lift, hammer out one side and test again, you'll note the difference quite easily.

Using a barbel to work the fascia above your elbow is like pressing a magic button to fix your rack position on the front squat/snatch.

ok well I guess you are smarter than me.

 

[Draft]

Muscle? Unlikely. Mass? Sure.

I think it's possible (easy, even) to build way more than 1.5 lbs of mass a month. There are some fat fucks out there that have to be beating that by a factor of 10, or else the morbidly obese would all be no younger than 40.

1.5 lbs of muscle per month sounds feasible, to a point. Someone untrained could probably do it easily. Someone that's a rock hard 220 probably couldn't, at least not without some serious chemical assistance.

edit: foam roller is just another stretch. It's not magic, and it's not going to fuck up anything, either.

 

[MickeyKnox]

You can't tell if your muscle is tense. That's why it is tense. If you could relax it you wouldn't need a massage or a roller.

The masseuse/chiro/pt relaxes the muscle because they know what they are doing. The roller is basically you assuming you are smarter than a masseuse/chiro/pt and can do it manually with a cheap piece of plastic. I agree that massage is not perfect but if I palpate your shoulder I can tell exactly which muscle is tense. If you are using a roller how do you isolate that single muscle - it is a bulldozer approach when you need fine touch.



ok well I guess you are smarter than me.

So what you're saying is you don't understand how it could work, therefore it can't.

 

[X-Frame]

I would love to see some references or science behind the rollers. They don't work, they are quite bad for you. I don't know why GAF loves them so.

I would love to see some references behind your claim that foam rollers are bad for us.

As far as them not working, I respectfully disagree in light of my own personal experience using them for years.

I don't need some random studies to validate my foam roller purchase.

 

[MickeyKnox]

I would love to see some references behind your claim that foam rollers are bad for us.

As far as them not working, I respectfully disagree in light of my own personal experience using them for years.

I don't need some random studies to validate my foam roller purchase.

It's just a subset of the anti-conformist mindset as applied to fitness.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Shit, I roll on beefaroni cans, that shit's good for you and gets real results.

 

[parrotbeak]

Shit, I roll on beefaroni cans, that shit's good for you and gets real results.

Even kids do it so it is natural.

 

[shira]

So what you're saying is you don't understand how it could work, therefore it can't.

No, its called sarcasm. Rage harder plz.

I would love to see some references behind your claim that foam rollers are bad for us.

As far as them not working, I respectfully disagree in light of my own personal experience using them for years.

I don't need some random studies to validate my foam roller purchase.

The problem is that there are no valid studies either way. How do you know what you are doing is correct? There is no company accountability.

When I see a product that is totally unregulated and has a 5000% markup I know something is wrong because stores will sell it to make a profit without regard for customer safety.

 

[reilo]

Buy a PVC pipe for $3 then.

 

[Price Dalton]

The problem is that there are no valid studies either way. How do you know what you are doing is correct? There is no company accountability.

Because it makes my joints not hurt and my muscles move more fluidly. Because it works, dude. I don't need a poorly constructed study to inform my every action.

 

[MickeyKnox]

No, its called sarcasm. Rage harder plz.


The problem is that there are no valid studies either way. How do you know what you are doing is correct? There is no company accountability.

When I see a product that is totally unregulated and has a 5000% markup I know something is wrong because stores will sell it to make a profit without regard for customer safety.

Now you're just delving into paranoid territory.

Hint hint, the concept is to knead out your fascia and muscle fibers, you don't need something with a "5000%" mark up, a good piece of PVC piping will do an awesome job of it.

 

[parrotbeak]

The problem is that there are no valid studies either way. How do you know what you are doing is correct? There is no company accountability.

When I see a product that is totally unregulated and has a 5000% markup I know something is wrong because stores will sell it to make a profit without regard for customer safety.

There aren't hard scientific studies on massage either.

You'll know you're doing it correctly if it improves your mobility. I don't know how you could do it incorrectly. If you can lift weights without injury you can probably figure out how to use a roller without hurting yourself.

Lots of products have huge mark-ups. That's not an argument against the benefits of self-massage.

 

[J Tourettes]

You can't tell if your muscle is tense. That's why it is tense. If you could relax it you wouldn't need a massage or a roller.

The masseuse/chiro/pt relaxes the muscle because they know what they are doing. The roller is basically you assuming you are smarter than a masseuse/chiro/pt and can do it manually with a cheap piece of plastic. I agree that massage is not perfect but if I palpate your shoulder I can tell exactly which muscle is tense. If you are using a roller how do you isolate that single muscle - it is a bulldozer approach when you need fine touch.



ok well I guess you are smarter than me.

Chiropractors are a laughing stock in England so I'd much rather trust a piece of hard foam in place of charlatans claiming to be able to cure asthma and other ailments via the power of massage. Those fuckers are almost as bad as reiki healers.

 

[hxa155]

Sounds like your body composition is changing, which is normal yes. Are you a beginner or had you been working out prior?

I'm a beginner. But to be honest, I've been cheating way too much to say I'm eating clean. I'm gonna lower the intensity on my workouts and try to do the keto diet as clean as possible.

I've gained like 5 pounds back and now I have a small double chin :/

 

[J Tourettes]

I reset my OHP this weak as I just couldn't get past 45kg (99lb). I bumped it down to 35.5kg (78lb) and am increasing it in 1kg increments per session, should I be thinking of assistance exercises as well?

My current workout is SS:

A:
Squat 95kg (209lb)
Bench 79.5 (175lb)
Deadlift 105.5 (232lb)
Chin ups

B:
Squat
OHP
Power cleans 56kg (123.5lb)
Pull ups

Do my OHP figures seem too high/too low/about right compared to the rest of my lifts? Thanks.

 

[HisshouBuraiKen]

Just tell him to get some cutting gel, the GNC magazine says it works!

Oh my god it's a real thing

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Oh my god it's a real thing

I can't make that shit up dude.

 

[MjFrancis]

Do my OHP figures seem too high/too low/about right compared to the rest of my lifts? Thanks.

Three sets of five reps, yes? They are probably a little low compared to your bench in my humble opinion. But on that subject, everyone's press is relatively weak. I believe my own to be lacking.

Within the confines of SS, I can't think of anything offhand to improve your press that you haven't done already. Resetting was a good idea. If one lift of five isn't going your way that still means 80% of your lifting is fucking awesome.

I've been pressing every weekday but today will be the final day I stick with this abhorrent strategy. I haven't decided if I should rest two or three days until I attempt to gauge what, if any, difference in strength this has yielded.

 

[JB1981]

Now that I work out at our corporate gym I am being forced to become more of a Crossfitter.

Yesterday I did:

DB Bench Press 5x3
Bent-over rows: 10x3
Chins: 4xfailure

Then I did some conditioning work:
DB squats followed by Box jumps (jumping onto stacked steppers), followed by medicine balls slams 4 rounds for time, no breaks.

The conditioning work actually felt great. I'm trying to be a little inventive there since my equipment is limited. I have been pushing a punching bag across the aerobic room prowler-style.

I am really missing the barbell, dumbbells suck ass. I hate benching with them (hate the stress they put on my low back when racking weight). Barbells are just safer and more practical and more scalable. I took a job in Newark where I travel 1:30 mins each way and getting to a good gym is really hard. Any other ideas for what I can do at my work gym, GAF? I want to do a push-pull style routine with DBs if I can and add conditioning work like I described above.

I am also looking into doing more dumbbell complexes but I don't like much either because they fatigue the crap out of your hands and they would be better done with a barbell. They're just not very practical for explosive movements.

 

[kylej]

I am really missing the barbell, dumbbells suck ass. I hate benching with them (hate the stress they put on my low back when racking weight). Barbells are just safer and more practical and more scalable.

I am also looking into doing more dumbbell complexes but I don't like much either because they fatigue the crap out of your hands and they would be better done with a barbell. They're just not very practical for explosive movements.

Sounds like dumbbells are kicking your ass tbh. Don't blame the dumbbells, get stronger stabilizer muscles.

DBs are pretty much universally safer than barbells. No fixed range of motion and if you go to failure by yourself you can drop the weight.

 

[JB1981]

Sounds like dumbbells are kicking your ass tbh. Don't blame the dumbbells, get stronger stabilizer muscles.DBs are pretty much universally safer than barbells. No fixed range of motion and if you go to failure by yourself you can drop the weight.

Please point out to me in my post where I said that? Are you trying to tell me that dummbells are safer for doing things like cleans, deadlifts, push presses, squats? For real? Has nothing to do with stabilizer muscles, has to do with dumbbells are a terrible alternative to a barbell for complex movements like the ones mentioned.

I will work with them in the abscene of an olympic bar and the complexes are somewhat interesting but there are some things that are some movements that are just not optimal with a dumbbell, particularly if you want to get strong.

And you seriously think dropping heavy dumbbells on a missed rep is safe? That's a great way to destroy your shoulders.

 

[ezrarh]

I reset my OHP this weak as I just couldn't get past 45kg (99lb). I bumped it down to 35.5kg (78lb) and am increasing it in 1kg increments per session, should I be thinking of assistance exercises as well?

My current workout is SS:

A:
Squat 95kg (209lb)
Bench 79.5 (175lb)
Deadlift 105.5 (232lb)
Chin ups

B:
Squat
OHP
Power cleans 56kg (123.5lb)
Pull ups

Do my OHP figures seem too high/too low/about right compared to the rest of my lifts? Thanks.

Press is hard.

Here are my stats (all 1x5 except deadlift)

Squat: 325
Bench: 195
Deadlift: 330 (1 rep max, I have trouble with grip to do x5 at higher weights)

and
Press: 120

And it's only recently I got up to 120. I was stuck around 110 forever though. Only recently when I made an effort to gain more mass was I able to get through the plateau.


edit: On another note, my coworker brought me some of his home made venison jerky. Tasty stuff.

 

[BlueScrote]

You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

You can see how effective self-myofascial release is literally on the spot. Test your range of motion in a bilateral lift, hammer out one side and test again, you'll note the difference quite easily.

Using a barbel to work the fascia above your elbow is like pressing a magic button to fix your rack position on the front squat/snatch.

Are there any videos showing someone doing this?

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

Squat: 325
Bench: 195
Deadlift: 330 (1 rep max, I have trouble with grip to do x5 at higher weights)

Those are pretty damn well proportioned numbers, good job.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Are there any videos showing someone doing this?

http://www.mobilitywod.com/

About the guy who runs it.

About Kelly Starrett

Coach Kelly Starrett received his Doctor of Physical Therapy in 2007 from Samuel Merritt College in Oakland, California. Before starting his own physical therapy practice at San Francisco CrosSFit, one of the first 50 CrossFit affiliates, he practiced performance-based physical therapy at the world-renowned Stone Clinic. In his current practice, Kelly continues to focus on performance-based Orthopedic Sports Medicine with an emphasis on returning athletes to elite level sport and performance. His clients see exceptional results from his progressive blend of manual physical therapy and strength training. Since 2009, Kelly has been traveling the country teaching his “Movement, Mobility & Maintenance Course” in an effort to spread his message that good mobility and proper movement are the keys to good performance and that all humans should be able to perform this basic maintenance on themselves.

Kelly’s clients have included Olympic gold-medalists, Tour de France cyclists, world-class extreme skiers and X-Games medalists, dancers with Smuin, San Francisco, and Sacramento Ballet Companies, military personnel, and competitive age-division athletes. Kelly has also served as the strength and conditioning coach for the Marin Rowing Association high school rowing program where he helped lead the varsity girls to a national title in 2008. He is also proud to have served as strength coach to reigning rowing Olympic gold medalist Erin Cafaro, in preparation for her success in the 2008 Beijing Olympiad and the 2009 World Championships.

Kelly’s background as an athlete and coach includes paddling whitewater slalom canoe on the US Canoe and Kayak Teams, and leading the Men’s Whitewater Rafting Team to two national titles and competition in two World Championships. In his free time Kelly enjoys spending time with his wife Juliet and two daughters, Georgia and Caroline, surfing, paddling, Olympic lifting, hot-tubbing, and dancing.

I think he MIGHT know what he's talking about.

 

[kylej]

I will work with them in the abscene of an olympic bar and the complexes are somewhat interesting but there are some things that are some movements that are just not optimal with a dumbbell, particularly if you want to get strong.

And you seriously think dropping heavy dumbbells on a missed rep is safe? That's a great way to destroy your shoulders.

Of course DBs aren't going to be as efficient for an exercise designed for a barbell, I was responding to your point that "dumbbells suck ass" and that barbells are "safer and more practical".

If you go to failure on DB bench you don't have to rack the weight, you can lower your arms and drop the weight to the floor. I'm not saying throw the dumbbells and snap your arm off.

Best of luck at your new gym.

 

[JB1981]

Of course DBs aren't going to be as efficient for an exercise designed for a barbell, I was responding to your point that "dumbbells suck ass" and that barbells are "safer and more practical".

If you go to failure on DB bench you don't have to rack the weight, you can lower your arms and drop the weight to the floor. I'm not saying throw the dumbbells and snap your arm off.

Best of luck at your new gym.

Ok, I should clarify. DBs are not good for me because i have an existing low back injury and moving around heavy DBs tends to aggravate my back. Sorry if I came off like a d*ck. Thanks for the well wishes.

 

[Price Dalton]

Please point out to me in my post where I said that? Are you trying to tell me that dummbells are safer for doing things like cleans, deadlifts, push presses, squats? For real? Has nothing to do with stabilizer muscles, has to do with dumbbells are a terrible alternative to a barbell for complex movements like the ones mentioned.

I will work with them in the abscene of an olympic bar and the complexes are somewhat interesting but there are some things that are some movements that are just not optimal with a dumbbell, particularly if you want to get strong.

And you seriously think dropping heavy dumbbells on a missed rep is safe? That's a great way to destroy your shoulders.

I've been messing around with standing single arm dumbbell shoulder presses. You press with the one hand while stabilizing the other side of your bod (which holds no dumbbell). Really hard on the torso and they've actually improved my barbell presses.

Also, try dumbbell snatches. I find they feel better than dumbbell cleans.

Single leg deadlifts feel better with dumbbells than two legged deadlifts, too.

 

[ShaneB]

Having a hell of time getting motivated lately. Just feeling extra bored, maybe it's the coming winter time blues, or how much I've been working lately (which in turn means I see very little sun during the week), but it just feels like a chore to go the gym lately. Just feels like I'm stuck in a rut and running the same old routines and getting bored of it all.

I've seen some pretty big results since I've started, so perhaps it's a feeling of plateauing as well, realizing more results at this point gets harder and harder.

Perhaps I'll unpack my old pc and finally get those before pics and really see how much I've progressed and that'll give me a good dose of reality of keeping things together and kicking butt.

Perhaps tonight I'll keep it simple and just kick butt with some squats, deadlifts and bench press and realize it's ok to take a few days here and there to relax.

 

[JB1981]

I've been messing around with standing single arm dumbbell shoulder presses. You press with the one hand while stabilizing the other side of your bod (which holds no dumbbell). Really hard on the torso and they've actually improved my barbell presses.

Also, try dumbbell snatches. I find they feel better than dumbbell cleans.

Single leg deadlifts feel better with dumbbells than two legged deadlifts, too.

Thanks for the recommendations, I will try these. The one thing I don't like doing is DB deadlifts, though. I feel like I can't get my back in a proper position with the DBs being so low to the ground.

 

[entremet]

Does anyone here use meal replacement bars? I havn't had those probars but everyone is loving them

I try to stick with real food these days. I don't even do shakes anymore either.

 

[MjFrancis]

@JB1981

How about the stiff-legged dumbbell deadlift?

 

[parrotbeak]

Ok, I should clarify. DBs are not good for me because i have an existing low back injury and moving around heavy DBs tends to aggravate my back. Sorry if I came off like a d*ck. Thanks for the well wishes.

I have the same issue, with reracking and carrying heavy dbs. It's definitely not optional for us.

There's Bulgarian split squats as an option for bb squats.

I've also seen people use those plastic stepper things to put dbs higher off the floor for doing dls and cleans. Our gym has octogonal dbs though with flat edges so they don't roll as much.

 

[Echoes of Pink]

I'm going to pick up StrongLifts 5X5 starting this Monday. I've spent the last few days just practicing all of the movements in the program with the barbell, and I'm good on most of them. The only move where I felt my form was poor was the pendlay style barbell row. Can anyone offer any tips on how to do this properly? I was having problems finding the correct stance.

Also, any personal feedback on the StrongLifts 5X5 program? I know there seem to be a bunch of subtle variations on 5X5 programs. I think StrongLifts will work best for my situation because I can't do power cleans. I live on the third floor of an apartment building and my downstairs neighbor would murder me. Any thoughts or comments?

 

[parrotbeak]

I did SL5x5 for like Nov last year till July or so of this year as reintroduction to weights after +4 years off. It's good, easy to follow. I would leave out assistance and heavy cardio at first and add them in as you get used to the volume.

Ya, there's lots of variations of both 5x5 and SS; main thing is to pick one and go with it. You could even do SS and just sub the rows for pcs.

I wasn't great with the rows either, but basically the set up is similar to a deadlift. Remember to rest the weight on the ground/pins after each pull. I actually ended up subbing chest protected rows for these because I was worried it would aggravate my back injury.

 

[JB1981]

@JB1981

How about the stiff-legged dumbbell deadlift?

I will try these. Kind of like an RDL.

We do have a short bar here. It's not a 45lb long olympic bar. I think it's a 25lb short bar .. I actually can deadlift with that and maybe do cleans. I just can't go to heavy because I'm in a corporate office and I can't drop really heavy weights lol

 

[MjFrancis]

But dropping the weights is a sign of the alpha male. Start bulking up, throwing weights around, even steal coworker's lunches while you're at it. You've got to establish the pecking order.

 

[MrToughPants]

I'm going to pick up StrongLifts 5X5 starting this Monday. I've spent the last few days just practicing all of the movements in the program with the barbell, and I'm good on most of them. The only move where I felt my form was poor was the pendlay style barbell row. Can anyone offer any tips on how to do this properly? I was having problems finding the correct stance.

Also, any personal feedback on the StrongLifts 5X5 program? I know there seem to be a bunch of subtle variations on 5X5 programs. I think StrongLifts will work best for my situation because I can't do power cleans. I live on the third floor of an apartment building and my downstairs neighbor would murder me. Any thoughts or comments?

Glenn explaining Pendlay rows with demo

 

[Echoes of Pink]

Glenn explaining Pendlay rows with demo

Thanks for the link. I think I'll try a few different things next time including a slightly wider than shoulder width foot position and some more hamstring warm up before hand.

I'm not sure if my slightly curved spine is affecting my ability here, but I'll keep an eye on it. If I can't hack it, would swapping out weighted inverted rows or dumbbell rows with a bench be a big no-no in a 5X5 program?

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Ack. I got 245 on bench without really any problems. Felt too confident and jumped to 265. Got stuck at the bottom on my way up. Should've just done 255 instead, which I know I could've got.

My goal is 275, and I know once I reach 265, that extra 10 pounds will be hard to reach.

I think my problem is that I lower the bar down down too slow. It's gotta be around 2-2 and half seconds to lower the bar.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Tried out that treadmill warm up you guys said you do. I did 5 minutes at 12 degree incline, then went to go do deadlifts.

Worked pretty good, and my stretching was more effective.

Also did 385 x 5 and followed it up with 405 x 1 just because.

Ack. I got 245 on bench without really any problems. Felt too confident and jumped to 265. Got stuck at the bottom on my way up. Should've just done 255 instead, which I know I could've got.

My goal is 275, and I know once I reach 265, that extra 10 pounds will be hard to reach.

I think my problem is that I lower the bar down down too slow. It's gotta be around 2-2 and half seconds to lower the bar.

IMO you should lower the bar slow, it's better for you and shows you're controlling the weight, not the other way around.

I lower it pretty slow, especially when I do higher weight, but I don't think I've ever counted how long, haha.

I'm assuming you had a spotter?

Either way, good on ya, just don't get down on yourself man.

 

[MrToughPants]

Thanks for the link. I think I'll try a few different things next time including a slightly wider than shoulder width foot position and some more hamstring warm up before hand.

I'm not sure if my slightly curved spine is affecting my ability here, but I'll keep an eye on it. If I can't hack it, would swapping out weighted inverted rows or dumbbell rows with a bench be a big no-no in a 5X5 program?

Strict BB rows are a great way to improve your bench, i'm not sure about DB rows because the rom is totally different.

 

[parrotbeak]

Just got an email that my Starting Strength 3rd edition has shipped.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Just got an email that my Starting Strength 3rd edition has shipped.

I'd buy it, but I've already got a backlog of R.A Salvatore books, and I'm done spending for the holiday season anyway.

Lemme know how it is!

 

[parrotbeak]

I'd buy it, but I've already got a backlog of R.A Salvatore books, and I'm done spending for the holiday season anyway.

Lemme know how it is!

Ya, I have a big backlog of reading also, but I've read the 2nd edition so much it probably won't be very heavy reading for me. I'm mostly interested to see what he changed. And I can then use the 2nd edition to lend out to friends (probably permanently).

 

[MjFrancis]

Nice thing about a day that fills you with furious fire and brimstone rage is that you can channel that energy into an afternoon training session. It will feel especially rewarding to drop that energy on a Friday, knowing I can start the weekend as the calm center of the universe.

 

[Cudder]

Having a hell of time getting motivated lately. Just feeling extra bored, maybe it's the coming winter time blues, or how much I've been working lately (which in turn means I see very little sun during the week), but it just feels like a chore to go the gym lately. Just feels like I'm stuck in a rut and running the same old routines and getting bored of it all.

I've seen some pretty big results since I've started, so perhaps it's a feeling of plateauing as well, realizing more results at this point gets harder and harder.

Perhaps I'll unpack my old pc and finally get those before pics and really see how much I've progressed and that'll give me a good dose of reality of keeping things together and kicking butt.

Perhaps tonight I'll keep it simple and just kick butt with some squats, deadlifts and bench press and realize it's ok to take a few days here and there to relax.

I've been feeling EXACTLY like this for the last few weeks, ugh.