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[Timedog]

Don't you also do calf raises and wrist curls and other isolation stuff? You seem to post a lot about how you want to isolate muscles. And no, starting strength isn't a BB routine, but if you alter it, it's not exactly starting strength anymore.

For someone who was asking originally about the point of "bench shirts" you seem to have already made up your mind about gear. It would seem your original question was merely designed to give you license to bash/complain about it.

There's nothing inherently more boring about geared meets than ungeared meets, especially at a higher level, again, it's not like the gear is doing all the lifting.

How are you supposed to effectively work certain muscles without isolation? I'm of the opinion that it's dumb to harp on things like range of motion in some areas and ignore them in others. I find it dumb talk about how you need full range of motion in the squat to fully work the main squat muscles, and then ignore the fact that squats don't work your calves very well and any work that the calves do is in a piss poor ROM. If your only goal is to be good at squats, your calves will be fine for that task, but if you want better overall body performance you should probably do some isolation.

Outside of SS I'll do some calf raises, barbell curls, lying french press, lateral raises, once in awhile I'll do a set of incline BB press. Typically 1-3 sets of these exercises per day i.e. not very much.

The "who can master the gear the best" aspect seems boring to me personally. I just don't get it.

No, but your questions and input do tend to come from the BB realm. Not a bad thing, but how it seems.

Not really, I just really dislike when people shit on bodybuilding because they have different goals. I'm of the opinion "who gives a fuck what anyone else's goals are or what they want their body to look/perform like".

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Smh, I'm not going to bother anymore. More of a hassle than it's worth.

Going to go back to my policy of not responding to him at all.

 

[kylej]

Claiming something like a bench shirt "artificially" increases the amount of weight you can lift is retarded. Ever use chalk? Sorry, that's artificially increasing the amount of weight you can lift. Wrist straps? Same. Weightlifting shoes? Same. Pre-workouts? Same.

Regardless, your workout is any competitive powerlifter's warmup, shirt or no shirt.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

I started training last week for the specific goal of being able to do a nice slow man-up. I thought it would take at least a couple weeks but I was repping 5 of them out without janky crossfit swinging. Cool little change up to your routine.

 

[grumble]

How are you supposed to effectively work certain muscles without isolation? I'm of the opinion that it's dumb to harp on things like range of motion in some areas and ignore them in others. I find it dumb talk about how you need full range of motion in the squat to fully work the main squat muscles, and then ignore the fact that squats don't work your calves very well and any work that the calves do is in a piss poor ROM. If your only goal is to be good at squats, your calves will be fine for that task, but if you want better overall body performance you should probably do some isolation.

Outside of SS I'll do some calf raises, barbell curls, lying french press, lateral raises, once in awhile I'll do a set of incline BB press. Typically 1-3 sets of these exercises per day i.e. not very much.

The "who can master the gear the best" aspect seems boring to me personally. I just don't get it.


Not really, I just really dislike when people shit on bodybuilding because they have different goals. I'm of the opinion "who gives a fuck what anyone else's goals are or what they want their body to look/perform like".

I'd definitely argue that the range of motion in the squat is very different from the range of motion in a calf raise, for a couple of reasons.

1. Biomechanics only activate posteior chain adequately when going deep into the squat ie hit below parallel. If you only go down halfway you have muscles that simply won't grow much.

2. There have been a few studies that demonstrate that calves see their highest neural activation as the foot points while the knee extends (ie sprinting, jumping, pushing stuff, climbing up hills carrying rocks above your head).

This doesn't invalidate your point and I can agree that for experienced lifters they can choose to put meat on their body however they want, and that in certain situations isolation lifts can be a good addition to a routine (but rarely for a novice!)

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

I started training last week for the specific goal of being able to do a nice slow man-up. I thought it would take at least a couple weeks but I was repping 5 of them out without janky crossfit swinging. Cool little change up to your routine.

Man up? Never heard if that, either way good work pushing to your goal!

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Man up? Never heard if that, either way good work pushing to your goal!

Thanks man. This is what it looks like.

Can anyone here do a planche? I have been trying to do one of those bastards for months. Really difficult.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Thanks man. This is what it looks like.

Can anyone here do a planche? I have been trying to do one of those bastards for months. Really difficult.

Wow I'm impressed good shit bud!

 

[CliqWriter]

I don't know my Man-ups were so easy for me, but the planche was much harder to achieve. But yes, I can do it.

Gonna start working on my dragon flag tomorrow.

 

[Spiritreaver]

Cyclic carb? Definitely my favorite cutting diet.

Yup! I enjoy it too. Keeps the meals form getting boring as I get to eat different foods for different macro goals.

Today was a fun day, it was a high carb "cheat" day. It wasn't a cheat at all, everything within macros, nothing unhealthy. In fact, everything I had today is pretty much what I've been eating for the past month. Just experimenting and having fun.

My food processor arrived today too, so I made some blueberry pancakes with oatmeal. Was good. Though the whey I used was coffee flavored, lol.

The high carb/cal days give me more room to practice cooking and actually eat the shit I make.

 

[MrOogieBoogie]

Thanks man. This is what it looks like.

Can anyone here do a planche? I have been trying to do one of those bastards for months. Really difficult.

I can do a pretty good handstand-into-planche, but the move is hell on my shoulders.

In fact, the reason I strained my rotator cuff two weeks ago was because of the planche, so be warned.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

I don't know my Man-ups were so easy for me, but the planche was much harder to achieve. But yes, I can do it.

Gonna start working on my dragon flag tomorrow.

Ha exact same thing for me except I still can't do a planche even close. What exercises helped you the most? I have been doing the one where you put your feet high up against a wall and then slowly slide down while keeping your arms locked out but progress is slow.

I can do a pretty good handstand-into-planche, but the move is hell on my shoulders.

In fact, the reason I strained my rotator cuff two weeks ago was because of the planche, so be warned.

Handstand into a planche! You my friend are a freaking bad ass.

 

[CliqWriter]

Ha exact same thing for me except I still can't do a planche even close. What exercises helped you the most? I have been doing the one where you put your feet high up against a wall and then slowly slide down while keeping your arms locked out but progress is slow.

Handstand into a planche! You my friend are a freaking bad ass.

I had to do a lot of core and stability training. Anything and everything I could find.

 

[Keyouta]

Just finished day one of insanity, going to push myself to get to 60. Has anyone done it before? Is it a good program?

 

[MrOogieBoogie]

Ha exact same thing for me except I still can't do a planche even close. What exercises helped you the most? I have been doing the one where you put your feet high up against a wall and then slowly slide down while keeping your arms locked out but progress is slow.



Handstand into a planche! You my friend are a freaking bad ass.

Trust me, I didn't feel like a badass when my shoulder cramped up and I couldn't move my arm without feeling pain for a few days.

Not going back to the planche for a while.

 

[Mully]

Bought some cottage cheese for the first time. I always thought it would taste disgusting, but I had it with some cut apples today and it was delicious.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Bought some cottage cheese for the first time. I always thought it would taste disgusting, but I had it with some cut apples today and it was delicious.

Yeah, I always have mine with fruit.

 

[entremet]

So what fitness blogs and sites do you guys read. I've been wanting to add more stuff to my RSS reader.

Currently I read:
Mark's Daily Apple
Jason Ferruggia
and the venerable T-Nation

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Trust me, I didn't feel like a badass when my shoulder cramped up and I couldn't move my arm without feeling pain for a few days.

Not going back to the planche for a while.

If I saw you do the planche in the gym and in the process witnessed you strain your shoulder I would still think "fricken bad ass"

Yeah, I always have mine with fruit.

Grapefruit is my favorite pairing. Almost makes the grapefruit taste sweet.

 

[Timedog]

Smh, I'm not going to bother anymore. More of a hassle than it's worth.

Going to go back to my policy of not responding to him at all.

Your BB routine comment was hilariously off the mark. As was your baseless accusation that I don't care about powerlifting. But yes, please stop bothering anymore so you stop getting owned like with the barbell on the back semantic jackoff nonsense.

Thanks,
Timedog

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Grapefruit is my favorite pairing. Almost makes the grapefruit taste sweet.

Haven't tried that yet, I usually do it with peaches. I may need to give that a shot, but we rarely have grapefruit in the house anyway.

 

[Deleted member 12837]

Your BB routine comment was hilariously off the mark. As was your baseless accusation that I don't care about powerlifting. But yes, please stop bothering anymore so you stop getting owned like with the barbell on the back semantic jackoff nonsense.

Thanks,
Timedog

You're overreacting and coming across as pretty defensive about all of this (I imagine that propensity of yours is what he's referring to by "hassle"). I never got the sense he was attacking BB in any way. In fact, I'm pretty sure some isolation exercises are part of his 5/3/1 + BBB routine.

Also, it was perfectly reasonable for him to assume you weren't into powerlifting, because what he followed up with is correct: many of your posts reference isolation exercises or contain BB-type comments. There was no critique there, just an observation.

 

[Carbonox]

Cottage cheese with fruit? Could not imagine myself eating that. Love the stuff on its own.

 

[FallingEdge]

Your BB routine comment was hilariously off the mark. As was your baseless accusation that I don't care about powerlifting. But yes, please stop bothering anymore so you stop getting owned like with the barbell on the back semantic jackoff nonsense.

Thanks,
Timedog

A lot of your posts in this thread come off as condescending in the sense that you tend to overreact a lot for no apparent reason. I agree with others in this thread that your comments leaned more into BB/isolation routine. Which is perfectly fine. There are plenty of individuals in this thread who prefer that style. Alienshogun was not attacking BB at all.

While I do admit that there can be posters who get the wrong idea, BB/isolation is perfectly acceptable. The problem most people have in this thread is when someone would just post a chest/arm routine while ignoring their back/legs. Working out all parts of the body helps everything grow even if your main focus is arms.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Cottage cheese with fruit? Could not imagine myself eating that. Love the stuff on its own.

One of the best combos ever with cottage cheese is 1 cup of cottage cheese, 1/2 cup of cooked oatmeal, slivered almonds that were broiled, and fresh fruit of your choice.

 

[Petrie]

Your BB routine comment was hilariously off the mark. As was your baseless accusation that I don't care about powerlifting. But yes, please stop bothering anymore so you stop getting owned like with the barbell on the back semantic jackoff nonsense.

Thanks,
Timedog

You just come across as more BB focused in this thread, this isn't a bad thing, to each their own. Embrace it. Lol

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

We need some good before / after pics in this thread.

 

[M_A_C]

Benched 315 twice today! Yeah I know livejournal... But I thought I'd be stuck at 275 forever, then I started doing DoggCrapp Training a few months ago, and I'm making great gains.

 

[rando14]

For those who take Hemo Rage Black, Jack3d, Oxyelite, etc, the FDA is pissed at their makers and has issued warnings:

http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm302133.htm

 

[balddemon]

if the topic is still bench shirts, i was talkign to a guy at the gym about them. said that at higher weights (like 1000+lbs) you have to wear them and have perfect form otherwise your arms snap off. and that this guy (Forgot his name)that benches 1200lbs, if his shirt tears while hes lifting, the weight does silly things. thought that was kinda intersting.

he also mentioned that the world champ squatter lives in our town. mofo is in the 168 weight class and squats 880lbs. jesusfuck

anyways my workout today was pretty good:

swuat - 305x3x5. wow hard, last rep was scary but i got it.

press - 120x3x5. hard, cheated a bit, boucning on my back leg fora couple reps, but its coutns

bench - 185x3x5. hard and needed a spotter and the last rep on the last 2 sets were suspicious, but i'll count it and do 190 next time.



quick question: i want to cut. get shredded.

Spoiler

toned.

but i also want to gain weight at the same time. i weighed in at 175 today, and i think 5 more pounds would be ideal for me. i'm going to start doing some cardio on off days consisting mainly of running down a straight line and sprinting between light poles, followed by some jumproping. what else should i do? should i keep doing SS? i already barely eat enough to make gains lol.

 

[M_A_C]

For those who take Hemo Rage Black, Jack3d, Oxyelite, etc, the FDA is pissed at their makers and has issued warnings:

http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm302133.htm

Wow, interesting. I take jacked and it's always scared me a little.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

As I figured, the regulars understand what's going on. Which is why I stopped responding. Thanks for reaffirming my faith guys.

Cottage cheese with fruit? Could not imagine myself eating that. Love the stuff on its own.

You should try it! Grapes are really good in it, I've done cantaloupe too.

For those who take Hemo Rage Black, Jack3d, Oxyelite, etc, the FDA is pissed at their makers and has issued warnings:

http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm302133.htm

IMO it's only a matter of time before those are banned like Ripfuel with Ephedra was. Those things scare the crap out of me. Shit, 1 can of rockstar back when I drank those before working out gave me weird feelings.

Benched 315 twice today! Yeah I know livejournal... But I thought I'd be stuck at 275 forever, then I started doing DoggCrapp Training a few months ago, and I'm making great gains.

Fuck that, share your accomplishments. Good shit man, keep at it! Not familiar with that routine though.

We need some good before / after pics in this thread.

I posted one at my 1 year mark, probably will do another around August again for the 2 year mark.

 

[Piecake]

As I figured, the regulars understand what's going on. Which is why I stopped responding. Thanks for reaffirming my faith guys.



You should try it! Grapes are really good in it, I've done cantaloupe too.

People actually like cantaloupe?

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

People actually like cantaloupe?

Oh fuck yeah, but I prefer honeydew.

 

[MrToughPants]

How are you supposed to effectively work certain muscles without isolation?

Calf raises/isolation are fine on top of whatever compounds you plan on doing. Wrist curls are a waste of time though. Coan was doing lots of iso in his routines: leg press, leg curls, calf raises, lateral raises etc, as do many other top powerlifters. I remember seeing Malanchiev doing iso (992lbs raw squat) as well as Savickas.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Calf raises/isolation are fine on top of whatever compounds you plan on doing. Wrist curls are a waste of time though. Coan was doing lots of iso in his routines: leg press, leg curls, calf raises, lateral raises etc, as do many other top powerlifters. I remember seeing Malanchiev doing iso (992lbs raw squat) as well as Savickas.

I would argue that (specific) isolation is a must at higher levels, wouldn't you? At lower levels though it's more than likely a waste of time, at least from my understanding. (Which as I've admitted before is still very limited)

I do a bit of isolation like Ender pointed out with my 5/3/1 program, but it fits within my program and exists for balance in the muscle groups and each selected isolation serves a specific goal be it health or a bigger platform for benching (Shrugs, lat flys, reverse flys etc). I'm not nearly advanced enough yet to really dig deep into isolation, and I don't see the need for calf raises at all yet. Between running, and my main lifts my calves get nailed pretty well.

The only thing that has ever made a difference for my calves has been running with these 5-Finger shoes. I have the smallest pubescent girl calves and no amount of isolation training has made a budge in them but running in those monkey shoes tears them up. Now I finally look like a pubescent boy.

Yeah, minimalist running works your calves like crazy. That's what I do and the main reason I got a foam roller, lol.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Benched 315 twice today! Yeah I know livejournal... But I thought I'd be stuck at 275 forever, then I started doing DoggCrapp Training a few months ago, and I'm making great gains.

315! Damn bro that is incredible. Nice job.

You know what is funny I have been benching about the same amount of weight since I was in High School(10 Years ago...Damn). I have tried upping my strength but it just comes dreadfully slow for me. What's interesting is the correlation between chest size and strength for me has never been a symbiotic one. My chest has grown year after year from the inclusion of supersets, tri-sets, shock-training, and basically every exhaustive thing from Arnolds book but now its big enough that when I sit down to do some bench people are genuinely perplexed when they see me peaking at 185.

I would argue that (specific) isolation is a must at higher levels, wouldn't you? At lower levels though it's more than likely a waste of time, at least from my understanding. (Which as I've admitted before is still very limited)

I do a bit of isolation like Ender pointed out with my 5/3/1 program, but it fits within my program and exists for balance in the muscle groups. I'm not nearly advanced enough yet to really dig deep into isolation, and I don't see the need for calf raises at all yet. Between running, and my main lifts my calves get nailed pretty good.

The only thing that has ever made a difference for my calves has been running with these 5-Finger shoes. I have the smallest pubescent girl calves and no amount of isolation training has made a budge in them but running in those monkey shoes tears them up. Now I finally look like a pubescent boy.

Oh fuck yeah, but I prefer honeydew.

HoneyDew is the king of the Cantelopes!

 

[M_A_C]

315! Damn bro that is incredible. Nice job.

You know what is funny I have been benching about the same amount of weight since I was in High School(10 Years ago...Damn). I have tried upping my strength but it just comes dreadfully slow for me. What's interesting is the correlation between chest size and strength for me has never been a symbiotic one. My chest has grown year after year from the inclusion of supersets, tri-sets, shock-training, and basically every exhaustive thing from Arnolds book but now its big enough that when I sit down to do some bench people are genuinely perplexed when they see me peaking at 185.



The only thing that has ever made a difference for my calves has been running with these 5-Finger shoes. I have the smallest pubescent girl calves and no amount of isolation training has made a budge in them but running in those monkey shoes tears them up. Now I finally look like a pubescent boy.



HoneyDew is the king of the Cantelopes!

Thanks! Well, I definitely would recommend DC training. I was extremely skeptical at first because I would do like 4-5 exercises per body part. But just trying it out for a while and it's worked great for me:

http://www.simplyshredded.com/a-loa...ystem-the-next-big-thing-in-bodybuilding.html

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Thanks! Well, I definitely would recommend DC training. I was extremely skeptical at first because I would do like 4-5 exercises per body part. But just trying it out for a while and it's worked great for me:

http://www.simplyshredded.com/a-loa...ystem-the-next-big-thing-in-bodybuilding.html

Ooh very cool man Ill check it out thanks.

 

[Timedog]

Calf raises/isolation are fine on top of whatever compounds you plan on doing. Wrist curls are a waste of time though. Coan was doing lots of iso in his routines: leg press, leg curls, calf raises, lateral raises etc, as do many other top powerlifters. I remember seeing Malanchiev doing iso (992lbs raw squat) as well as Savickas.

Exactly. Many, many powerlifters do iso, no clue how me doing a set or two of iso with my SS makes me a BB. Whether iso is good for a beginner depends on their goals. If you wanna jump higher, iso calf raises can help. If you wanna throw a shotput or discus farther, iso wrist curls can help. If you wanna run faster, iso leg curls and help. If you just want those areas bigger, iso can help.

 

[Spiritreaver]

For those who take Hemo Rage Black, Jack3d, Oxyelite, etc, the FDA is pissed at their makers and has issued warnings:

http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm302133.htm

Yep, I have tried a couple of those fat burners, well OxyElite, the Lipo6x I used isn't listed. Either way I did not like what they did to me and will never use them or any fat burner again. Hell I've stopped using preworkouts as well. Just not worth risking yourself over questionable shit.

That and I honestly feel like the pulmonary embolism I got last year may have been partially contributed by my use of said fat burners. The doctors said it was highly unlikely, and while I am genetically predisposed to clotting, I think it still may have had an effect. *shrugs* I'm just glad I learned my lesson quickly.

 

[Petrie]

Exactly. Many, many powerlifters do iso. Whether iso is good for a beginner depends on their goals. If you wanna jump higher, iso calf raises can help. If you wanna throw a shotput or discus farther, iso wrist curls can help. If you wanna run faster, iso leg curls and help. If you just want those areas bigger, iso can help.

And those with knowledge will tell you that for a beginner, everything you listed is a waste of time better put to other activities. A beginner doesn't have the strength base to make use of those isolation lifts in a worthwhile fashion. They may see results, but there are simply better ways to use that time and energy.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Christ, I thought 219g of protein a day was a lot (for me).

I can't imagine eating 450g of protein a day.

That's what Shelby has Kroc on. And this is his "diet" eating.

http://asp.elitefts.net/qa/default.asp?qid=167832&tid=

Carlos,

My diet varies widely depending on whether I'm dieting for a show, in a growth phase etc. Shelby Starnes does my diet and right now I'm dieting hard being two weeks out from one show and 7 weeks from another he has me at 450 grams of protein per day, 200 grams of healthy fats, only trace amounts of carbs and approximately 3600kcal per day. At the start of this diet the protein and fat amounts were roughly the same but I was also taking in around 200 carbs per day which meant my calories were around 4400kcal per day.

Matt

 

[Timedog]

And those with knowledge will tell you that for a beginner, everything you listed is a waste of time better put to other activities. A beginner doesn't have the strength base to make use of those isolation lifts in a worthwhile fashion. They may see results, but there are simply better ways to use that time and energy.

Assuming you are already hitting your main lifts, what are the better uses of time and energy? And why would you need an already strong strength base to make the specific iso lifts and applications I mentioned worthwhile?

 

[FallingEdge]

We need some good before / after pics in this thread.

Before. April 30, 2012

Approx 220. 14ish% bf.

Will post a new pick the first week of July.

 

[balddemon]

Exactly. Many, many powerlifters do iso, no clue how me doing a set or two of iso with my SS makes me a BB. Whether iso is good for a beginner depends on their goals. If you wanna jump higher, iso calf raises can help. If you wanna throw a shotput or discus farther, iso wrist curls can help. If you wanna run faster, iso leg curls and help. If you just want those areas bigger, iso can help.

im pretty sure jumping higher involves your hams and ass more than anything else...calf raises might help sprinters more than anything..

just sayin

 

[Timedog]

im pretty sure jumping higher involves your hams and ass more than anything else...calf raises might help sprinters more than anything..

just sayin

And your hams and ass are getting a good workout (even in a jump-like position) with regular squats. Your calves, not so much. Sprinting is predominantly hams and ass as well.

 

[Mully]

You should try it! Grapes are really good in it, I've done cantaloupe too.

I'm going to try grapes tomorrow afternoon. I've had cottage cheese with fruit once and now I'm addicted.

Also, I saw that article and didn't MusclePharm Assault on there. Would you consider that an unsafe product?

 

[Para bailar La Bomba]

I'm going to try grapes tomorrow afternoon. I've had cottage cheese with fruit once and now I'm addicted.

Also, I saw that article and didn't MusclePharm Assault on there. Would you consider that an unsafe product?

Know somebody who was hospitalized with irregular heartbeat that was probably attributed to MusclePharm Assault. If you insist on using it, use it very sparingly and make sure you don't use other stims concurrently, including caffeine.

 

[Mully]

Know somebody who was hospitalized with irregular heartbeat that was probably attributed to MusclePharm Assault. If you insist on using it, use it very sparingly and make sure you don't use other stims concurrently, including caffeine.

I rarely drink caffeiene, but I am guilty of using it for nearly every workout. And now that I'm switching over to a 6 day cutting routine, I'll have to intelligently use it.