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[DragonKnight]

Fitness-Gaf, my friends always tell me to take a every-other day rest when working out, otherwise I will hurt myself. I hear people on Gaf working out everyday. So, what should I do? Should I take a every-other day break, or should I work out everyday?

To clarify, I'm not aiming to lose weight (I'm a twink actually); I am aiming to tone my body, and to work on my abs.

I think muscle "tone" is a function of body fat % therefore you will need to lose some weight i.e. calorie deficit

 

[ajim]

just had some mcdonalds - large double qtr pounder meal, and a double mcchicken burger.

i love a good ol' dirty winter bulk.

 

[reilo]

just had some mcdonalds - large double qtr pounder meal, and a double mcchicken burger.

i love a good ol' dirty winter bulk.

Winter? It's June!

 

[TheRagnCajun]

Fitness-Gaf, my friends always tell me to take a every-other day rest when working out, otherwise I will hurt myself. I hear people on Gaf working out everyday. So, what should I do? Should I take a every-other day break, or should I work out everyday?

To clarify, I'm not aiming to lose weight (I'm a twink actually); I am aiming to tone my body, and to work on my abs.

A beginner should start with 3 times a week probably. Once you're intermediate and your recovery improves you can workout every day. Its pretty hard to overtrain as I understand, just don't make your workouts 3-hour lift-a-thons.

Listen to your body. If you start developing pain you need to rest.

 

[MjFrancis]

Fitness-Gaf, my friends always tell me to take a every-other day rest when working out, otherwise I will hurt myself. I hear people on Gaf working out everyday. So, what should I do? Should I take a every-other day break, or should I work out everyday?

I like at least one day a week off from any training, strength or conditioning. I strength train 4x/week, any more hampers my recovery, given my selection of programming. Like rando14 said, remember that muscles grow when you're not training, so keep that in mind with whatever you do. Of course muscles also like plenty of sleep and a healthy caloric surplus to grow, too.

 

[Cooter]

Otherway around. Pull-ups involve biceps more, chins hit lats & delts

This is incorrect.

 

[Attackthebase]

Thanks for the advice, guys! I'm a beginner at working out (only truly started nearly a month back). I'll stick to working out three days a week.

 

[grumble]

Winter? It's June!

That is winter in a lot of places.

 

[MjFrancis]

I would also highly recommend Starting Strength or the beginner's template outlined in the OP. You want to get 'toned' and forcing muscle strength and hypertrophy will yield quicker results. Relatively heavy squats will also tax your abdominals, and both programs would have you perform these every training day.

 

[MWS Natural]

There was some pull-up talk yesterday, and I just thought I'd quote some of what Jim Wendler had to say in his last book about pull-ups. Maybe others can find some of it helpful.

I know Malleymal is busting them out like there's no tomorrow, and FallingEdge is going to try 25 a day. Both are awesome. I've just started by adding a set of ten first thing in the morning, but I'll take this info under advisement and slowly increase my sets/reps in the morning while also including more at the beginning of every workout and fitting in a few quick ones in between pressing sets. I was at about 100-120 a week for the past few months, over 150 by the end of this week and by the end of June I hope to consistently pull off 200+ a week. I'm increasing the volume slowly enough as to not sabotage any of my lifts and hopefully the adaptation will be painless.

Wendler advises not to major in the minors, but I still think pulls are ridiculously awesome. As I do more and more pull-ups everything else seems to fall into place for me. Definitely my favorite exercise after deadlifts and squats.

I finish every workout session with 1 set max of pullups. I give myself motivation by setting a goal for more than I did in the previous week and rewarding myself with less cardio if I meet it. So if I did 12 in a row last week I will go for 15 and if I get it I will do 5minutes less cardio afterwards.

 

[Zalasta]

Anyone here training with hypothyroidism? Good gym sessions seem rarer and rarer these days.

I have hypothyroidism (and it doesn't seem to affect my weight). However, I haven't started weight training yet. I'm just doing core/body-only exercises until I can get my own equipments together. Probably not exactly what you're looking for.

 

[Heel]

Hey guys, was looking for a little guidance on my beginner's workout regimin. I'm 5'11", 220 lbs. or so. Looking to get to about 190-200. I'm not a terribly strong guy, falling in the "skinny fat" category for sure. I've researched a decent amount but was looking for some reassurance on what I'm doing, haha.

I've been going to the gym 6 days a week for about 1 to 1 1/2 hours, 2 weeks now, interchanging these two days:

Day A) Complete circuit on the gym's weight machines (not ready for free weights quite yet). There's 12 different machines, and I switch between upper and lower body as I go. I know eventually I need separate days for different muscle groups, but read this should be fine for a beginner?

Set 1: 6 reps at 50% weight.
Set 2: 4 reps at 75% weight.
Set 3: 10 reps at 100%, nearing failure.
Set 4: 10 reps at 100%, nearing failure.


Day B) Attempting what I think is considered a HIIT'ish routine on the elliptical trainer?

1: 5 minutes warmup at moderate pace, 2 out of 20 on resistance.
2: 12 cycles of the following:
A) 15 seconds full out as hard as I can, resistance 12 of 20
B) 45 seconds moderate pace, resistance 2 of 20
3: 20-25 minutes at moderate pace, resistance 2 of 20 (Is this counterproductive after doing HIIT cycles?)


So, a few questions:

-Is interchanging weight lifting and cardio each day counterproductive for my goals? I know it's beneficial to gain some muscle to assist with fat burn, but should I do one at a time?

-When necessary, what's the best way to challenge myself for each of my routines?

For weight machine day...add a rep for each exercise and stay in 10-12 rep range, or add weight and go for 8-10 reps? Add an additional set?

For elliptical day...add a HIIT cycle, add a point of resistance, change my HIIT cycle to 20/40 to make it tougher? Change to stationary bike, treadmill?


Thanks for any pointers guys!

 

[parrotbeak]

Anyone have or know of Mike Robertson's "Bulletproof your Back and Knees Seminar"?

http://robertsontrainingsystems.com/the-bulletproof-back-and-knees-seminar/

It's a lot of money and I'm just wondering if it's worth it. I have some back problems, possibly a bulging disc and sciatica symptoms (numb foot when I sit sometimes) so if this is the END ALL for back k owledge it's worth it -- seeing as how just a couple doc appts are that much.

Plus the knees are a bonus.

Check it out and tell me what you think.

How severe is it and what's your workout look like now? I'm rehabbing from microdisctomy surgery 3 years ago on my last lumbar disc. Started off barely walking with very numb foot, and now I'm pretty much fully functional with just occasional tingling in my foot, mostly when I haven't stretched. I have a lot less disc material in that one vert, so i try not to jump or do anything with high impact. I didn't do anything special besides a lot of stretches that my physical therapist showed me. Otherwise, I just did a lot of elliptical running without holding the handles to work my core, and crunches on the swiss ball.

For lower back strengthening, I started doing extensions again (without weight) only last year or so, and then worked up to very light deadlifts and body squats. Been doing SL5x5 since December or so. Started very slow and I rest a lot and sometimes stall on weight just to be safe, but I'm happy with my progression, and my symptoms have reduced substantially.

 

[Malleymal]

That was some great info MjFrancis..

I also cant stress enough how much you will increase in strength if you do the last couple reps of pullups with the SLOW LET GO methough. Come down as SLOW as possible... Even if its only 2 that you do the negatives slowly, just go AS SLOW as you can. Count to 10 slowly on your way down. Pace yourself by breathing to a rhythm or something to keep your mind of the burn, anything. Every week that you do this you will add on 1 or 2 more pull ups easily.

I incorporate the SLOW Let go method into one of my exercises every workout. so if I am on my biceps day, and I am doing cable curls, I will do 3 sets a little lighter than normal and focus on the resistance part going down at a 7 to 10 count (remember to breathe right). Not LIGHTWEIGHT like most resistance workouts, just a LITTLE bit lighter than you are used to. You will find new peaks in that workout the next time you do it.

 

[X-Frame]

How severe is it and what's your workout look like now? I'm rehabbing from microdisctomy surgery 3 years ago on my last lumbar disc. Started off barely walking with very numb foot, and now I'm pretty much fully functional with just occasional tingling in my foot, mostly when I haven't stretched. I have a lot less disc material in that one vert, so i try not to jump or do anything with high impact. I didn't do anything special besides a lot of stretches that my physical therapist showed me. Otherwise, I just did a lot of elliptical running without holding the handles to work my core, and crunches on the swiss ball.

For lower back strengthening, I started doing extensions again (without weight) only last year or so, and then worked up to very light deadlifts and body squats. Been doing SL5x5 since December or so. Started very slow and I rest a lot and sometimes stall on weight just to be safe, but I'm happy with my progression, and my symptoms have reduced substantially.

It's not severe. I just don't ever, ever want another back episode again. I don't want intense lower back pain episodes or sciatica flare-ups. So I figure that product I linked which is 13-hours of back/knee (both go together anyway) experience, knowledge, etc so that I can prevent it from happening again it's worth it.

2-3 PT, chiro, etc appointments will set me back that much and won't give me a shred of the knowledge Mike Robertson will.

I haven't really done much lifting since I discovered the numbness in my foot 2 months ago but cardio and core exercises but this week I will introduce posterior chain and upper body lifts back into my program.


$200 is nothing if it's a culmination of all back research and knowledge to give me the tools and knowledge so that I never go to the doctor again.

 

[parrotbeak]

Ya, that's not much money if you never have back problems again, but I'm very suspicious of programs that make claims like that. The human body hasn't changed in a long time. There are no secrets to be sold, only getting to know the feel of your own body and how it reacts to different activities and stimuli.

All the improvements I've made have been dramatic since my injury, but weights have really made a huge difference. Last year I couldn't get good cardio workout even on the elliptical, cuz my back would hurt before my heart was even close to challenged. Now I can go as hard as my heart can handle. I don't know how heavy on squats or dls I'll realistically be able to go, but doing them again has helped my injury tremendously. But slow progression is key.

My surgeon, who I trust a lot, told me I'm always going to have problems because of the loss of disc material, and that everyone has disc issues as they age. The material dries out and gets more prone to ripping and shrinking. That's why so many people have back pains that can't be corrected by surgery.

To me the best prevention is to make the muscles supporting the spine as strong as you can. I try to work both endurance (holding the back straight under load) and flexibility, although of course never at the same time. That's pretty obvious, but honestly I'd never really thought about it much until I got hurt.

Based on what I saw in that 1 minute video, that's probably what he's doing also -- teaching exercises that strengthen the supporting muscles for the back and knee, and also doing flexibility exercises. I'd guess stretching and doing squats and deads and those side planks would probably do you good.

I dunno much about knees, but friends with messed up knees have told me squats are the best thing for them. One of my friends is always limping but walks fine after squat day.

 

[X-Frame]

Ya, that's not much money if you never have back problems again, but I'm very suspicious of programs that make claims like that. The human body hasn't changed in a long time. There are no secrets to be sold, only getting to know the feel of your own body and how it reacts to different activities and stimuli.

All the improvements I've made have been dramatic since my injury, but weights have really made a huge difference. Last year I couldn't get good cardio workout even on the elliptical, cuz my back would hurt before my heart was even close to challenged. Now I can go as hard as my heart can handle. I don't know how heavy on squats or dls I'll realistically be able to go, but doing them again has helped my injury tremendously. But slow progression is key.

My surgeon, who I trust a lot, told me I'm always going to have problems because of the loss of disc material, and that everyone has disc issues as they age. The material dries out and gets more prone to ripping and shrinking. That's why so many people have back pains that can't be corrected by surgery.

To me the best prevention is to make the muscles supporting the spine as strong as you can. I try to work both endurance (holding the back straight under load) and flexibility, although of course never at the same time. That's pretty obvious, but honestly I'd never really thought about it much until I got hurt.

Based on what I saw in that 1 minute video, that's probably what he's doing also -- teaching exercises that strengthen the supporting muscles for the back and knee, and also doing flexibility exercises. I'd guess stretching and doing squats and deads and those side planks would probably do you good.

I dunno much about knees, but friends with messed up knees have told me squats are the best thing for them. One of my friends is always limping but walks fine after squat day.

The reason why your friend feels better after squats is because as knee flexion increases (such as going down when squatting), the VMO (teardrop muscle on quads) increases it's firing rate. The VMO is what pulls the patella medially and why a lot of therapists speak about it and knee stabilization. So when your friend does squats, the resistance as he drops down and comes out of the hole acts as a force to re-align his kneecap. He likely has a tight IT band or similar which is pulling his knee to the side on his off days. Some foam rolling or massage on his IT band would probably be huge.

And ^^ is just a fraction of the stuff I've learned so far from Mike Robertson and the trainers and coaches he works with, which I assume will be on the Bulletproof of the Knee portion of the video.

I don't see it as a person trying to just take my money by shuffling a couple exercises into a unique layout and selling it to me but rather someone who is dumping his life's work in terms of back and knee pain in 1 place.

I'll sleep on it though and continue with my own rehab/prehab program. I mean I have saved dozens of articles written by him and others, powerlifters, etc about back health, glutes, hips, etc so maybe that product won't give me much new information.

As I'm sure you can relate -- it comes a point where money just flies out of your wallet if it means being healthy again. I'm 25 years old and have had 2 shoulder surgeries (runs in the family) and then after being back in the gym for not even 3 weeks once I rehabbed my shoulder I hurt my back from doing warm-ups with squats. Out again. Then rehabbed that, back in the gym -- a month later and another back episode and then boom, sciatica. Lol.

 

[DragonKnight]

I'm now 180 and i'm sick and tired of doing cardio 5x per. Roughly how many calories should I be looking to burn per session?

I eat around 1650 hundred cals per day and i just ran 300cals off

What about running with a weight vest or just a weighted bag. I just wanna speed up my cardio sessions. Is this bad for my knee joints?

 

[ipukespiders]

I'm now 180 and i'm sick and tired of doing cardio 5x per. Roughly how many calories should I be looking to burn per session?

I eat around 1650 hundred cals per day and i just ran 300cals off

What about running with a weight vest or just a weighted bag. I just wanna speed up my cardio sessions. Is this bad for my knee joints?

Why the hurry?
Slow steady fat loss in a life style you can live with and not be miserable. You should aim for 1-2 lbs per week of fat loss, are you getting this?

 

[DragonKnight]

Why the hurry?
Slow steady fat loss in a life style you can live with and not be miserable. You should aim for 1-2 lbs per week of fat loss, are you getting this?

I'd rather run 30 mins a day instead of 1 hour. The weight vest will help me burn more calories in a shorter time.

 

[Gilby]

I'd rather run 30 mins a day instead of 1 hour. The weight vest will help me burn more calories in a shorter time.

You could just run faster instead.

 

[ipukespiders]

I'd rather run 30 mins a day instead of 1 hour. The weight vest will help me burn more calories in a shorter time.

What I meant was, I thought a slower approach would be better.
Are you in a hurry to loose this weight? Is there a deadline that you have to meet?

 

[DragonKnight]

Now i'm not sure whether i'm doing this cutting thing right at all.

1lb roughly equates to 3500 calories. My BMR is about 2000calories.

So if I eat a 1750 deficit and burn around 250 cals a day during exercise I should lose about one pound a week, right?

Looks like I only need to run about 300cals 5x a week to lose more than 1lb a week. Good. I can definitely knock that out in an hour and i'll use a weight vest and an incline to mix things up.

I've been getting more hungry as of late though. Really craving things as well

 

[DragonKnight]

What I meant was, I thought a slower approach would be better.
Are you in a hurry to loose this weight? Is there a deadline that you have to meet?

Oh. I only wanna lose ten more pounds. I did the GOMAD last summer with SS and got to 200lbs but since I gained like 3.3lbs per week a lot of my gains were fat particularly in my face, stomach, and quads.

Now i'm 180 and just wanna get down to 170 before august so that I can go on a good, clean, slow bulk which I now have a perfect understand of how to do. This is cut is just to eliminate most of the unnecessary fat that I put on last summer.

 

[Gilby]

Oh. I only wanna lose ten more pounds. I did the GOMAD last summer with SS and got to 200lbs but since I gained like 3.3lbs per week a lot of my gains were fat particularly in my face, stomach, and quads.

Now i'm 180 and just wanna get down to 170 before august so that I can go on a good, clean, slow bulk which I now have a perfect understand of how to do. This is cut is just to eliminate most of the unnecessary fat that I put on last summer.

Are you watching you carb intake or just calories?

 

[DragonKnight]

Are you watching you carb intake or just calories?

Both. Less 100g of carbs a day.

 

[ipukespiders]

Now i'm not sure whether i'm doing this cutting thing right at all.

1lb roughly equates to 3500 calories. My BMR is about 2000calories.

So if I eat a 1750 deficit and burn around 250 cals a day during exercise I should lose about one pound a week, right?

Yep.

2000 is very low, what are your stats, age, height, weight?

 

[DragonKnight]

Yep.

2000 is very low, what are your stats, age, height, weight?

20, 6'1, 180lb respectively. I have a really small bone structure as well

 

[ipukespiders]

20, 6'1, 180lb respectively. I have a really small bone structure as well

I'm 38, 6ft2 and when I started cutting in January I was 189, and at the time I calculated at... hmmm... 3200/day I think? My job keeps me very active.
Anyways, I was cutting then at 2400 cals/day, and still am around 2000 cals to this day. The last few lbs of fat are almost gone.
I realize though, that my BMR would need to adjusted for my new weight.

I also spent the first 4 months of my cut not once weighing myself, and just using the mirror. Since late April, I just weight myself about every 2 weeks.

It's nice, cause I don't feel deprived, or miserable. This is a lifestyle change for me. "Fairly" low carb as well, still like my cereal a few times a week, and a peanut butter sandwich/day. Nothing at all like the starch and grain hog I used to be.

 

[DragonKnight]

I'm 38, 6ft2 and when I started cutting in January I was 189, and at the time I calculated at... hmmm... 3200/day I think? My job keeps me very active.
Anyways, I was cutting then at 2400 cals/day, and still am around 2000 cals to this day. The last few lbs of fat are almost gone.
I realize though, that my BMR would need to adjusted for my new weight.

I also spent the first 4 months of my cut not once weighing myself, and just using the mirror. Since late April, I just weight myself about every 2 weeks.

It's nice, cause I don't feel deprived, or miserable. This is a lifestyle change for me. "Fairly" low carb as well, still like my cereal a few times a week, and a peanut butter sandwich/day. Nothing at all like the starch and grain hog I used to be.

what calculator are you using? I'm using this one: http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/

 

[DragonKnight]

Even using the op's method i'm getting around the same result.

Edit: yeah...i'm just gonna eat and run everyday. I stopped drinking as well so that should help with the carbs.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

Goddammit GAF, I have no cardiovascular stamina at all, and I've been jogging for a year. Perhaps it's the fact I'm overweight (haven't had my BMI measured, but I'd wager it's close to 30%), but I simply suck at endurance.

It doesn't discourage me or embarrass me, but I see badass bitches jogging forever and it makes me go "damn." XD

Edit: this calculator puts my body fat percentage at 17.32%...

 

[deadbeef]

Even using the op's method i'm getting around the same result.

Edit: yeah...i'm just gonna eat and run everyday. I stopped drinking as well so that should help with the carbs.

Yeah, alcohol pretty much shuts down any fat loss that might have been happening in your body when you drink. Don't do that, and you'll get much better results, even without changing anything else.

 

[Lamel]

Man this week has been rough, I haven't been eating enough I think and it's showing, I feel week and my workouts more difficult...

 

[DragonKnight]

Yeah, alcohol pretty much shuts down any fat loss that might have been happening in your body when you drink. Don't do that, and you'll get much better results, even without changing anything else.

Stopped drinking as soon as I came home from college in early May. And i think i'm going to add 1 hour of walking on an incline to my regimen and maybe eat a little more.

 

[Lamel]

Stopped drinking as soon as I came home from college in early May. And i think i'm going to add 1 hour of walking on an incline to my regimen and maybe eat a little more.

Remember dude, don't overdo it either, 1 pound a week is good progress, slowly but surely you'll get there.

 

[ipukespiders]

what calculator are you using? I'm using this one: http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/

Sorry, it was in January and don't remember what one it was.

 

[DragonKnight]

Remember dude, don't overdo it either, 1 pound a week is good progress, slowly but surely you'll get there.

I weigh myself everyday to make sure that i'm not losing too fast. I only want to lose ten more pounds anyway.

 

[NovemberMike]

What does everyone think of doing ruck marches? My brother's been trying to convince me to add it to my routine starting off with around 25lbs in a decent backpack, and the times I've tried it recently have actually been pretty difficult. Anyone have experience with this and whether it's decent training?

 

[RumblingRosco]

What does everyone think of doing ruck marches? My brother's been trying to convince me to add it to my routine starting off with around 25lbs in a decent backpack, and the times I've tried it recently have actually been pretty difficult. Anyone have experience with this and whether it's decent training?

Depends on your goals. My short time in ROTC makes me think that it's an awful, terrible idea, because it sure is not a "fun" exercise, if you ask me. You could look into getting a weighted vest with adjustable weights, might distribute the weight on your body a bit better than just putting it on your back.

By the way, excellent OP(s) Snrub.

 

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

What's this bucks name, a friend is in love with that Zyzz bitch and i need to show him a REAL MAN.

 

[parrotbeak]

Doug Young

 

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

Thanks heaps.

 

[CF_Fighter]

I just started up exercising and tonight I did almost full extension on my pull-ups and I couldn't even get through a single rep of 8, I had to cut it at 5. Everything is feeling really tight now, no pain, just a really weird feeling I've never had before. I'm 5'10" and 150 lb btw.

 

[Mr.City]

What's this bucks name, a friend is in love with that Zyzz bitch and i need to show him a REAL MAN.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlmS1porR7E

 

[Mr.City]

Goddammit GAF, I have no cardiovascular stamina at all, and I've been jogging for a year. Perhaps it's the fact I'm overweight (haven't had my BMI measured, but I'd wager it's close to 30%), but I simply suck at endurance.

It doesn't discourage me or embarrass me, but I see badass bitches jogging forever and it makes me go "damn." XD

Edit: this calculator puts my body fat percentage at 17.32%...

Jogging will only so much. Have you considered HITT (brief periods of intense conditioning)? A good example would be sled//prowler pushes, hill sprints, regular sprints, high-rep kettlebell swings, and a lot more.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

This site good for weight gain calculator?

http://www.freedieting.com/tools/weight_gain_calculator.htm

It's weird because it says I need to eat just under 3100 calories a day to gain weight. I'm eating at least 3500 calories a day and I feel like I'm already stuck and not gaining weight. Then again, it has only been about a month now since I've been eating more. Maybe with my fast metabolism, it'll take longer to see real results.

 

[MjFrancis]

@Jason's Ultimatum - It sounds like you are more in tune with your body than that internet calculator. It says the results are "based on 3 weight training sessions per week and little or no cardio." I mean, do you only train 3x a week? With no cardio? I used the calculator and it told me I needed just under 3,000 calories to bulk, too. If I was sedentary, sure, but I'm most definitely not. I'd lose up to 1/2 pound a week on that diet. No thanks!

---

Well, I don't plan on doing any pull-ups over the weekend, but my total number this week was exactly 150. Made me chuckle when I added it all up, since I never meant to meet the goal exactly. Yesterday I spread my pull-up variants throughout my workout. A little beforehand, between every set of pulls - all on top of the ten I did in the morning. Did two sets of ten this morning and that's what got me to 150. Next week I'll be doing 2x10 in the morning as well. Five days a week and that's 100 right there. Come Monday my endurance set during training should surpass 15 reps.

My goal today is to surpass sets of 8 for pistol squats. Usually beyond that my form suffers. If I didn't go for max reps on my final set of barbell squats I could have higher rep numbers by now, but the trade-off is worth it to me. I have barbell squats to thank for even being able to do one pistol, really.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

What's this bucks name, a friend is in love with that Zyzz bitch and i need to show him a REAL MAN.

Look at that manly chest. I don't understand why people shave...

 

[Parch]

First off, great threads guys. Lots of fine info and OP knows his stuff.

I'm an old fart but after a military career and a life of working out and playing a variety of sports at a high level, I pretend to know a lot about fitness. One of the confusing things that I've always been skeptical about is the sports supplement industry. I admit to being a sucker and trying a variety of products for over 20 years with varying results, but there always seems to be conflicting info showing up. I listened to a show on sports radio last night with a research scientist who had some interesting new info and tips about sports supplements. I thought I'd share.

First off, don't trust product hype. Any of the "test lab" results is usually from the company that is trying to sell the product. They are not necessarily lying, but they pick and choose the positive info that is going to help sell the product. Any info that fails to confirm or disproves claims is conveniently ignored. Some of this stuff has been tested for years by scientists and doctors who are doing real research and medical biopsies to actually learn how the body works. They're not trying to sell product, so I'll have a lot more confidence in scientists than I would with salesmen. A few specifics I've recently learned and some of the my personal experiences with sports supplements...

Creatine. Extensively tested and basically safe, but I never had any success with it and never found any difference. Was I doing something wrong? I recently found out that creatine has no effect on 40% of males, so I must be one of those. There's still conflicting reports about how effective it really is so I suppose it depends on your personal success, but for me it's a complete waste of money.

Glutamine. When I hit 40, DOMS really hit hard. That's Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness, and damn, I hurt for a couple of days after an intense workout. So making sure that I'm getting enough post workout protein and specifically glutamine is supposed to help with this. Again, I basically had no success with these post workout cocktails featuring the amino acids that claim to help. Same recommendation. Depends on your personal success but I'm leaning toward it being a waste of money.

Nitric Oxide. Claims to be a vasodilator and "pump up" muscle volume, but that doctor last night wasn't very positive about this stuff. Yes, it helps oxiginate blood, but it's been proven that NOX does nothing specific to muscle and most all of these supplements contains sub-products that can actually harm cardiac function. Until more is learned and these products are cleaned up, they should be avoided.

Thermogenics. Mostly caffeine, ephedra, and other stimulants and diet products. Not really harmful unless you've got a blood pressure problems, and caffeine has been proven to aid in blood flow to muscles. There are some expensive cocktails out there but basic caffeine pills are cheap. Hell, just have a cup of coffee before a workout and save even more.

Testosterone Boosters. There's Trubulis, ZMA, and anti-estrogen products claiming to increase testosterone, but all of it has never been proven to do this. Label claims are very questionable, so I'd throw this stuff into the wasted money bin.

Protein powder. Here's the biggie. It's good if used properly and there are a few pointers I've recently learned. Don't take whey protein BEFORE a workout. It sends mixed messages to the brain. Using muscles requires carbs, repairing muscle require protein, so ingesting protein before a workout sends the wrong message and effects performance. It's been mentioned many times here and can't be emphasized enough, but post workout whey protein is absolutely essential. 20 minutes max, get that protein in ya. Sports drinks are good for workouts (for the potassium not calcium and watch the calories) but don't buy sports drinks with protein.

What's the best type of protein? Whey, meat, or eggs? They all come with a catch, but it's eggs. Here's the egg catch. Raw egg white protein doesn't synthasize properly, so don't drink raw egg and make sure it's fully cooked. No runny eggs, and eat the whole egg. The amount of cholesterol in yolk is negligable and is also needed to properly digest the protein. It's OK to supplement with just egg white, but some yolk is needed. Just eat the whole damn egg. Egg protein powder is really expensive, real eggs are cheap. Guess what I recommend.

Meat is also the obvious source of protein, but the calories and cholesterol is a concern. Lean cuts, trim that fat, and eat in moderation. Carbs are really getting a bad rap lately. Chicken Little is screaming "makes you fat!" but the right type of carbs are essential. Low glycemic carbs in fruits and vegetables are needed to digest protein, so don't eat just meat in any meal.

And low glycemic carbs are also essential in synthasizing whey protein. Some claim to be zero carb. Don't buy! You need carbs. Also, don't forget that whey protein is fast digesting so don't mix with milk for post workout. Casein protein is also fabulous, just slow digesting for a continuous source of amino. Learn to love cottage cheese. It's probably the best food you can eat.

I think buying a basic cheap whey is good for post workout but I mostly use a blend. Pure casein is damn expensive so a blend like Myofusion is my preference. I've stopped buying the rest of these supplement products because I really question their effectiveness. I think that money is better spent buying quality, real food.

Sorry, no links and mostly just my opinion and experience, so take from it what you want. Most of this info has already been talked about so I'm just stating the obvious for emphasis. Again, great threads and workout knowledge is your friend.