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[kehs]

ATP?

adenosine triphosphate, basically the "energy" muscle need to actually function (at the cellular level).

 

[Petrie]

adenosine triphosphate, basically the "energy" muscle need to actually function (at the cellular level).

So if I were to add creatine to my current plans, when would I want to use it vs. the Whey protein I currently have after each workout, as well as before bed in a shake each evening?

 

[Carbonox]

Thanks guys. I've been perfectly happy with whey protein and just wanted to know if I had to throw creatine in on top.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

I'm 5'11 and weigh 195. Probably will want to get to 175 if possible. I'm not overweight I actually look fit jut want to weight less.

I wouldn't think a salami sandwich would effect you that much, unless you ate the whole pack.

 

[PumpkinPie]

I think I overdid the exercises yesterday, totally slept for over 12 hours, I felt like my body was dead...just fucking intense fatigue and tiredness.

 

[Lamel]

I think I overdid the exercises yesterday, totally slept for over 12 hours, I felt like my body was dead...just fucking intense fatigue and tiredness.

Did you get the proper nutrition, that really does matter. Also, did you stretch prior to exercise?

Edit: And I didn't even ask, what did you do?

 

[PumpkinPie]

Did you get the proper nutrition, that really does matter. Also, did you stretch prior to exercise?

Edit: And I didn't even ask, what did you do?

Yeah, I got my meals in for the day and I did stretch, I don't have any soreness at all. I got some dumbells yesterday so I did quite a lot of dumbell workouts (they came with a workout chart). I slept for about 8-9 hours at first and then woke up for a couple of hours, but then I was like "uuuggghhhh" and fell asleep again for for another 3-4 hours. LOL felt like a zombie, I feel fine now after that long sleep though.

EDIT: I found some Creatine pills at a fitness shop, the dosage is 10,000mg daily. I have no idea how this compares to the dosage of powdered Creatine, does anyone know anything about them?

 

[Para bailar La Bomba]

Creatine helps your muscles squeeze out more ATP, which in turn allows you to train harder/longer.

According to one study, creatine has a very mild anabolic affect too.

Van der Merwe, Johann; Brooks, Naomi E; Myburgh, Kathryn H (2009). "[Three Weeks of Creatine Monohydrate Supplementation Affects Dihydrotestosterone to Testosterone Ratio in College-Aged Rugby Players]". Clinical Journal of Sport Medicine 19 (5): 399–404.

EDIT: I found some Creatine pills at a fitness shop, the dosage is 10,000mg daily. I have no idea how this compares to the dosage of powdered Creatine, does anyone know anything about them?

What kind of creatine is it monohyrdrate or ethyl ester or hydrochloride?

My preferred brand of creatine is GAKIC by Muscletech. My only advice when taking any kind of creatine is drinks lots and lots of water.

For those who can't stomach its side-effects -- bloating and cramps while doing cardio -- I recommend taking L-Arginine and L-methionine - -they're the animo acid precursors to the creatine produced in your body.

 

[Casp0r]

I use Optimum Nutrition Double Chocolate. Great stuff. Been using it is since high school (about to start 5th year of college).

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000QSNYGI/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Over 1000 reviews. 4 & 1/2 stars out of 5.

Ha I bought some of this on a whim and holy shit you're right. The stuff I've got at the moment tastes like ass, this shit tastes delicious.

 

[PumpkinPie]

What kind of creatine is it monohyrdrate or ethyl ester or hydrochloride?

My preferred brand of creatine is GAKIC by Muscletech. My only advice when taking any kind of creatine is drinks lots and lots of water.

For those who can't stomach its side-effects -- bloating and cramps while doing cardio -- I recommend taking L-Arginine and L-methionine - -they're the animo acid precursors to the creatine produced in your body.

It's monohydrate, here is the link to the pills:

http://www.myprotein.com/uk/products/creatine-monohydrate

I've no doubt that it works as that site is respectable, I'm just wondering how it compares to powder... the powder states: "Proven to improve strength and power" whereas the pills only say: "Can aid strength and power gains".

 

[J Tourettes]

It's monohydrate, here is the link to the pills:

http://www.myprotein.com/uk/products/creatine-monohydrate

I've no doubt that it works as that site is respectable, I'm just wondering how it compares to powder... the powder states: "Proven to improve strength and power" whereas the pills only say: "Can aid strength and power gains".

You're a UK gaffer? Be sure to use MyProtein's price match facility. I always do and get my unflavoured WPI much cheaper.

Edit: copy and paste www.bulkpowders.co.uk into their price matcher and you should be able to get creatine ethyl ester tabs cheaper, not sure if the creatine monohydrate tabs get any cheaper.

 

[PumpkinPie]

You're a UK gaffer? Be sure to use MyProtein's price match facility. I always do and get my unflavoured WPI much cheaper.

Edit: copy and paste www.bulkpowders.co.uk into their price matcher and you should be able to get creatine ethyl ester tabs cheaper, not sure if the creatine monohydrate tabs get any cheaper.

Thanks

 

[Liquidsnake]

BroScience GAF, I get off work in an hour, and I am heading to the gym.

Is today a bicep day? Or a chest day? Please help me decide!!!

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

BroScience GAF, I get off work in an hour, and I am heading to the gym.

Is today a bicep day? Or a chest day? Please help me decide!!!

Abs day.

 

[Liquidsnake]

Abs day.

No no no, I want to enjoy my workout!!!!

 

[Liquidsnake]

Maybe I should do a split chest/biceps. 45 min sound good? 4 exercises x 4 sets x 10-12 reps for both chest and bi's sound good?

 

[Luscious LeftFoot]

Maybe I should do a split chest/biceps. 45 min sound good? 4 exercises x 4 sets x 10-12 reps for both chest and bi's sound good?

Brah, it's the weekend, just focus on the guns!

Do a couple push-ups before hitting the club and you're golden.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

Maybe I should do a split chest/biceps. 45 min sound good? 4 exercises x 4 sets x 10-12 reps for both chest and bi's sound good?

Get a routine and stick with that.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Great day today. Shoulders/deadlift did 345 5x5 then went to watch Conan. I wonder if the day will get better.

 

[iAmMaximus]

After a year of mixing my whey with water, I tried it with milk today. Damn that tastes good!

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

After a year of mixing my whey with water, I tried it with milk today. Damn that tastes good!

I usually go 50/50 white and chocolate milk to create a thick, frothy shake. If you want to limit carbs, just use skim milk or 50/50 skim milk and water.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Fuck me, did Whey go up in price across the board?

 

[Hyuga]

New here!
Well, quick question:
Is it still "arms&shoulders" - "breast&stomach" or did things change?
My schedule: Tuesday, Thursday, Sunday.
(tuesday -> arms&shoulders, thursday -> breast&stomach, and so on, and so on)

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

New here!
Well, quick question:
Is it still "arms&shoulders" - "breast&stomach" or did things change?
My schedule: Tuesday, Thursday, Sunday.
(tuesday -> arms&shoulders, thursday -> breast&stomach, and so on, and so on)

Check out the routine in the OP. Yeah...I don't think things were ever like that btw.

 

[Gary Whitta]

I usually go 50/50 white and chocolate milk to create a thick, frothy shake. If you want to limit carbs, just use skim milk or 50/50 skim milk and water.

Almond milk works great too.

 

[X-Frame]

I use almond milk in mine. Has anyone ever tried raw milk?

 

[MjFrancis]

Raw milk is awesome. I haven't had it in quite some time since the local farmer that distributed it to a few of the local general stores ceased his service. He needed to sell 500 gallons a month to break even and fell far short. Disappointing. Since that time I've abandoned most any sort of milk. My choice of dairy has since encompassed the forms of Greek yogurt and cottage cheese; perhaps an occasional splash of nonfat milk in my coffee. Ice cream every so often too I suppose. If a local source of raw milk made itself known I would drink the shit out of that quality beverage.

 

[X-Frame]

Francis, I'm interested especially after reading this article by Jason Ferruggia about Raw Milk and how the government are fighting against it. It's pretty sickening, especially when you watch the videos in the article.

The War On Raw Milk - by Jason Ferruggia

Last Wednesday I drove over to Rawesome in Venice, like I do every week, to pick up some meat, produce and a little raw butter, cream and goat yogurt. I arrived at the tail end of a government raid in which the LAPD and government officials poured out all of the raw dairy and left with a flat bed truck full of produce, nuts and bison steaks.

We all know that it’s not in the best interest of big business/big pharma for us to be healthy. Apparently selling healthy, organic food is now a crime. A crime worthy of jail time and $123,000 bail for the owner, James Stewart.

Like many members of this small co-op I am very passionate about healthy food and was pretty disgusted and had to seriously question the world we live in. There are SOOO many other more important issues to spend taxpayers money on. But instead they choose to focus on raw milk.

Whether you drink raw milk or not I’m sure you can see how insane this is. At the Whole Foods right next door they sell pasteurized dairy which is a hell of a lot worse for you. And in the fast food joint next to that that they sell absolute crap that will destroy your insides. Then there’s the liquor store a block down. But booze, cigarettes and French fries are all good. No one ever dies from too much of those items. So let them be. Take down the little organic food market instead. That’s more worthy of a raid than any crack house around.

The ridiculousness of it all leaves me at a total loss for words.

Here’s what Forbes.com had to say about the raid:

"Obviously spending this much time and this many resources to bust people selling dairy products is silly. Making arrests, rather than simply issuing a fine for non-compliance, is silly. And yes, the fundamental issue here is the silliness of requiring permits – or making outright bans – to sell raw milk in the first place. Permits typically don’t make us any safer, and can serve to crowd out competition. In this case, big dairy farms are crowding out smaller competitors."

And here’s some video footage from last Wednesday:

YouTube - Rawesome Foods Raided Again!

YouTube - Government War on Raw Milk

YouTube - Rawesome Raided by FDA

I have 0% faith in the government to give me health or nutritional advice, that much been been clear to me for years -- but this is nuts. I don't know much about raw milk, and from an evolutionary stand-point I don't know if humans drank it often and was a part of our diet, but I can totally see it being more natural than pasteurized. I clearly has some form of lactose intolerance as I believe most people do as well.

 

[Veezy]

Francis, I'm interested especially after reading this article by Jason Ferruggia about Raw Milk and how the government are fighting against it. It's pretty sickening, especially when you watch the videos in the article.

The War On Raw Milk - by Jason Ferruggia



YouTube - Rawesome Foods Raided Again!

YouTube - Government War on Raw Milk

YouTube - Rawesome Raided by FDA

I have 0% faith in the government to give me health or nutritional advice, that much been been clear to me for years -- but this is nuts. I don't know much about raw milk, and from an evolutionary stand-point I don't know if humans drank it often and was a part of our diet, but I can totally see it being more natural than pasteurized. I clearly has some form of lactose intolerance as I believe most people do as well.

Little bit of history, taken from Chaos and Pain's blog, on why GOMAD, without using raw milk, isn't really effective:

Building on the belief that raw milk is the stuff of greatness, a writer for Strength and Health, John McCallum, penned articles touting raw milk as the way to grow (later compiled into the book The Complete Keys to Progress. Randall J. Strossen, editor of that book, took that idea a step further, and suggested that everyone drink a gallon of milk a day and do his 20 rep squat program. It's my understanding that Strossen merely repackaged McCallum's ideas about milk and squats, which would make sense, as it was still legal to produce and transport raw milk in the US in 1965 (when McCallum penned the book). In retrospect, I'd imagine the fact that Pat Casey (the first guy to bench 600 lbs raw) and Doug Hepburn (the first guy to bench 500 raw) drank 6 quarts of milk a day factored into the belief that a gallon of milk a day is the way to super-strength as well, as it really drove home McCallum's suppositions.

No matter who invented it or why it became so popular, the adoption of that diet in this century is fucking ridiculous for a variety of reasons, starting with the fact that it's impossible to purchase raw milk easily in the US, and pasteurized and homogenized milk borders on indigestible for most people. Whereas raw milk merely ferments in your intestines (which actually makes it better for you), pasteurized milk putrefies. (Bieler, 211) Additionally, pasteurized milk is shown to be among the top three food allergies, and has symptoms ranging from ear infection and bad breath to asthma, admonial cramping, diarrhea, croup, and asthma, even in people who are lactose tolerant.(Audette, 58) Throw into the mix the fact that even skim milk contains 205g of sugar per gallon (and has a higher GI than fatty milks), and you've got a fucking recipe for disaster. Thus, in straining the shit out of your digestive system, you're getting a paltry 145g of protein for your efforts, not all of which will be digested, due to the fact that the fat molecules in homogenized milk are broken down into smaller parts and become a stealth delivery system for the proteins that puts them directly into your bloodstream, causing allergies. Pasteurization takes care of the rest, killing all of the enzymes that would aid in the digestion of this chemical monstrosity, putting the final cards in place to facilitate the transformation of milk from a benevolent Dr. Jekyll into a slavering, soul-rending, baby-raping, eviscerating horrorshow of a Mr. Hyde. At best, it's a quick way to get fat as shit, in my opinion, unless you swing a sledge all day long at work, or you've got the most freakish metabolism of all time, and at worst, you can pretty much wreck every one of your body's internal systems with GOMAD.

As for your post, it's simply stupid. I can understand the desire of a governement to protect it's people. Shit, that's their job. However, spending tax dollars on sending federal agents into a whole foods store to pour out raw milk is dangerous, stupid, and I'm pretty sure unconstitutional. At least we can still buy Jack Daniels.

 

[PumpkinPie]

What's the difference between incline and decline chest presses in terms of muscles worked?

 

[Veezy]

What's the difference between incline and decline chest presses in terms of muscles worked?

Incline move the bar path more vertical, towards the head, putting more stress on the shoulders.
Decline moves the bar more downward, towards the abdomen, putting more stress on the triceps.

They're fun to do as accessory work or to switch up your bench if you get bored, but flat bench will always be king in terms of strict pectoral work.

 

[parrotbeak]

Starting Strength suggests dips instead of decline. Decline is dangerous because if you miss and lose control of the bar it lands on your throat. So if you do them, you should probably do them in a squat rack/cage, and piss off everyone in this thread.

 

[Veezy]

Starting Strength suggests dips instead of decline. Decline is dangerous because if you miss and lose control of the bar it lands on your throat. So if you do them, you should probably do them in a squat rack/cage, and piss off everyone in this thread.

A spot works, too.

I will admit, I've used a cage before when doing over loaded bench press to work on my lock out. Nothing wrong with it.

 

[Casp0r]

What's the difference between incline and decline chest presses in terms of muscles worked?

My gym has a sign up saying decline chest presses are stupid and a waste of time.

 

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

Two months and I've made a bit more progress. More muscle, and it appears I'm losing more fat (albeit slowly).

Pics from two months ago.

(taken June 28th).





These are from just now, again, I'm not flexing in any of these pics, because I find that a bit cheesy, and it also makes it hard to hold the phone straight.

And here is me about a year ago. (yes, my hand is resting on my gut)

And here is my calf (this one I AM flexing in), it's hard to tell due to lighting, but my calf muscle (the main part of it) bulges out more than most peoples biceps (even people who focus on biceps, lol).

My stats currently are 5 foot 8 inches. 235 lbs, Benching 355, DL 405, Press 225. (1RM taken 2 months ago). Squatting 285 5x5.

Good work man, you will have to shave your legs to show of your calves

Starting Strength suggests dips instead of decline. Decline is dangerous because if you miss and lose control of the bar it lands on your throat. So if you do them, you should probably do them in a squat rack/cage, and piss off everyone in this thread.

Inclines and declines are pretty easy if you don't go overboard on your first try, a strange ass sensation (inclines are tough though but damn good). Good workout for the muscles that keep all the shit in control I guess. Easier if you have a spotter, I'm able to go bout 80% of my normal bench for declines without any problems. Dips would be more tri's than chest?

 

[parrotbeak]

I will admit, I've used a cage before when doing over loaded bench press to work on my lock out. Nothing wrong with it.

I've done it too, although only when the gym was pretty empty.

Inclines and declines are pretty easy if you don't go overboard on your first try, a strange ass sensation (inclines are tough though but damn good). Good workout for the muscles that keep all the shit in control I guess. Easier if you have a spotter, I'm able to go bout 80% of my normal bench for declines without any problems. Dips would be more tri's than chest?

The thing with both is the range of motion is shorter, so you should actually be able to do more than what you would bench.

Dips work the tris more, but angle yourself so you are more horizontal and you'll hit the pecs.

 

[X-Frame]

Dips can also be dangerous for your shoulders if you don't have the shoulder extension ROM to do them safely.

Watch this Kelly Starrett video to see what I mean -- I bet most people do it the wrong way.

YouTube - The Sink & Shoulder Extension - Kelly Starrett

Little bit of history, taken from Chaos and Pain's blog, on why GOMAD, without using raw milk, isn't really effective:

As for your post, it's simply stupid. I can understand the desire of a governement to protect it's people. Shit, that's their job. However, spending tax dollars on sending federal agents into a whole foods store to pour out raw milk is dangerous, stupid, and I'm pretty sure unconstitutional. At least we can still buy Jack Daniels.

See, how can I possibly want to ever drink milk again after reading that? It's crazy. I would love to try raw milk to see the difference but don't know any farmers markets off-hand around me that would sell it.

Also, the government didn't just raid that organic shop for the milk, they took everything from vegetables to meat. When it comes to nutrition, the government doesn't know shit.

 

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

I've done it too, although only when the gym was pretty empty.


The thing with both is the range of motion is shorter, so you should actually be able to do more than what you would bench.

Dips work the tris more, but angle yourself so you are more horizontal and you'll hit the pecs.

Well I guess theoretically, but damn............ try get the same amount up on incline (harder) or declines (easier than incline) and you will soon be fucked. Been doing inclines with dumbells and switched to barbell the other week, different feeling altogether. Gonna start that Layne Norton thing soon and think I might mix it up with bar and dumb just because of the effort involved and the control muscles.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Good work man, you will have to shave your legs to show of your calves

Thanks, yeah, I thought about that, but my wife isn't too keen on me shaving anything but my back. She thinks it's "manly."

What to do, lol.

Starting Strength suggests dips instead of decline. Decline is dangerous because if you miss and lose control of the bar it lands on your throat. So if you do them, you should probably do them in a squat rack/cage, and piss off everyone in this thread.

Haha, yep.

 

[Veezy]

Thanks, yeah, I thought about that, but my wife isn't too keen on me shaving anything but my back. She thinks it's "manly."

What to do, lol.

Tell her that daddy has to show off those legs and that it's totally manly to flex your shaved body for your internet fitness group composed of other strong well built men.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Tell her that daddy has to show off those legs and that it's totally manly to flex your shaved body for your internet fitness group composed of other strong well built men.

Lol, she already knows about you guys.

 

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

Thanks, yeah, I thought about that, but my wife isn't too keen on me shaving anything but my back. She thinks it's "manly."

What to do, lol.

Listen to the lady

Being blessed with calves is pretty fucking awesome. Mine are probably about as thick or a bit thicker than a 2 litre coke bottle without much training....... people jelly, I know.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Listen to the lady

Being blessed with calves is pretty fucking awesome. Mine are probably about as thick or a bit thicker than a 2 litre coke bottle without much training....... people jelly, I know.

She's definitely the boss in that category, that's for sure.

Yeah, when I was in the Army I was messing around in the weight room and one of the other guys said "How the hell does HE have "Olympic calves."

Feels good man.

 

[X-Frame]

I'm another one blessed with calves - so are all my brothers and my father. Mine are 3 inches larger than my arms.

I assume I would need to do ridiculously high volume, reps, and weight in order to get them to grow which would look so badass .. hmmm ..

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

I'm another one blessed with calves - so are all my brothers and my father. Mine are 3 inches larger than my arms.

I assume I would need to do ridiculously high volume, reps, and weight in order to get them to grow which would look so badass .. hmmm ..

Right now I'm doing 295lb standing barbell calf raises (5+ sets of 10+) on Mondays to focus on them. I get odd looks, but I'm sure it's not THAT much in the grand scheme of things, especially since like I've said over and over, I haven't been training legs long.

 

[parrotbeak]

Dips can also be dangerous for your shoulders if you don't have the shoulder extension ROM to do them safely.

Watch this Kelly Starrett video to see what I mean -- I bet most people do it the wrong way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ARPjekZPJw

i love his videos, cuz he crams so much good stuff in there. "Your face has nothing to do with what's going on in your shoulder." That's so true but never thought of it--why reinforce a nerve path that does nothing good; at best it distracts and takes energy, and at worst could lead you to put something out of alignment.

Well I guess theoretically, but damn............ try get the same amount up on incline (harder) or declines (easier than incline) and you will soon be fucked. Been doing inclines with dumbells and switched to barbell the other week, different feeling altogether. Gonna start that Layne Norton thing soon and think I might mix it up with bar and dumb just because of the effort involved and the control muscles.

Ya, I only do db inclines regularly so it's pretty theoretical for me also, but I see at least one guy at the gym regularly doing bigger loads on incline and decline than he does on bench (and in the cage, but he's considerate about it). I agree, the stabilizing muscles are what's interesting about them, so mixing it up with dbs make sense.

 

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

I'm another one blessed with calves - so are all my brothers and my father. Mine are 3 inches larger than my arms.

I assume I would need to do ridiculously high volume, reps, and weight in order to get them to grow which would look so badass .. hmmm ..

Yeah calves are pretty hard to grow, the gym I go to goes up to about 300 pounds on the calf raise machine and I can bounce them pretty easily..................... does mess with my lower back though

Likewise genetics with my family, old mans short and stocky 5'something with huge calves, I'm about 6' with bigger calves , 2 bro's with good calves but I will be rocking the tree trunks soon.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Yeah calves are pretty hard to grow, the gym I go to goes up to about 300 pounds on the calf raise machine and I can bounce them pretty easily..................... does mess with my lower back though

Likewise genetics with my family, old mans short and stocky 5'something with huge calves, I'm about 6' with bigger calves , 2 bro's with good calves but I will be rocking the tree trunks soon.

Yeah, it's definitely genetics, the guys with calves like mine tend to have the same type of build, even if they are taller.

Glad I have this, not a fan of my metabolism though, but I can work through it.

You don't often see guys over 6 foot with badass calves, you really did get lucky in the genetic pool, haha.

i

Ya, I only do db inclines regularly so it's pretty theoretical for me also, but I see at least one guy at the gym regularly doing bigger loads on incline and decline than he does on bench (and in the cage, but he's considerate about it). I agree, the stabilizing muscles are what's interesting about them, so mixing it up with dbs make sense.

Chest days I avoid decline bench.

I just do Flat, Incline, Dips, (all flys with DB) Decline flys, Flat flys, incline flys.


I used to do decline bench, but have since moved away from it, and actually seemed to benefit with cutting it from my routine.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

I have flamingo legs. Come at me bro.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

I have flamingo legs. Come at me bro.

It's all that chicken.