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[Jason's Ultimatum]

Last Wednesday I worked 7-4, came home, went to the gym, and could barely make it home. I ended up getting sick the next day due to wearing myself out from Wednesday.

EDIT-For the new page:

I need help adjusting my new routine. I'm only on my second week now, but I'm thinking of changing it up a bit. Really the only thing I'm aiming for is to do more of a full body/compound routine.

Right now it looks like this:

Mondays:

-front squats
-stiff deadlifts
-incline bench press
-standing military press
-alternating single-arm dumbell cleans

Wednesdays:

-deadlifts
-power cleans
-pullups
-dumbell chest press
-dips

Fridays: Repeat Monday workout

I'm wondering if I should change it to this:

Mondays:

-deadlifts
-bent over rows
-pullups
-dumbell chest press
-dips

Wednesdays:

-front squats
-power cleans
-alternating single-arm db cleans
-incline bench press
-standing military press

Fridays: Repeat Monday routine

Which do guys prefer? Honestly, I'm liking the second routine. The only problem I have is Wednesdays routine. After doing power cleans my wrists cannot take the incline bench press. So I can either change the order for Wednesdays workout to front squats, incline bench press, standing military press, power cleans, and finally alternating single-arm DB cleans.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

I wish we had gyms like that here. The one I'm at, everyone keeps to themselves and appear very arrogant.

I guess you just need to find the right person. But if you wait for someone to finish a set, they should be willing to lend you a spot. Everyone's been in a situation where they've needed a random person to give them a spot. I once had the guy who throws on twelve 45lb plates for squats spot me once. He was very encouraging.

 

[BuRT!]

Is it possible to get a muscular back without the V shape? If so, how?

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

I wish we had gyms like that here. The one I'm at, everyone keeps to themselves and appear very arrogant.

I always keep to myself but I always spot someone or let them work in if they ask.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Is it possible to get a muscular back without the V shape? If so, how?

You DON'T want the V shape? Why?

fuck dude, you gained that in a month? I've been going to the gym for around 3 months now and don't look anywhere near that. congrats!

\
My only issue is the lighting in the pic and his seemingly larger lovehandles in the second. Body position/lighting could mean a whole shit ton in a "progress" picture.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

That's what I was thinking, too. Also, I hope that's not the only thing he eats everyday.

 

[X-Frame]

Is it possible to get a muscular back without the V shape? If so, how?

Sure is, get fat enough so your waist is as wide as your lat spread.

Why you'd want that though .. no idea.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Come on, guys! Read my post on my routine!

 

[BuRT!]

You DON'T want the V shape? Why?
.

I don't really think it looks good from the front

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

I don't really think it looks good from the front

Can you post a picture of what you do want?

 

[MjFrancis]

I've posted it before, but the Farnese Hercules may represent what he's talking about. The classic Grecian ideal had a thick, cut midsection. Obliques were most definitely hypertrophied.

MMA fighters usually lack a V-Taper, too.

Stealth edit - X-Frame, Eugene Sandow did the same thing. Thick, solid, no V-Taper.

 

[X-Frame]

I've posted it before, but the Farnese Hercules may represent what he's talking about. The classic Grecian ideal had a thick, cut midsection. Obliques were most definitely hypertrophied.

MMA fighters usually lack a V-Taper, too.

Stealth edit - X-Frame, Eugene Sandow did the same thing. Thick, solid, no V-Taper.

Wait, when you say V-Taper do you mean the v-cut below the abs?

I thought he meant the "V" shape where his upper back lats are wide and then come down to a narrow waist -- like Arnold, Zane, etc. (as opposed to today with the huge roid guts).

And you're right Sandow's waist was no Zane as the core of the old-time strongmen were thicker but still even with the thickest core your lats form your upper back will dwarf your core size.

Unless I am mistaking everything here ..

Sandow vs. Arnold - Front View (Slightly NSFW?)

Difference between Sandow and Arnold. It's not really fair as Arnold is posing to spread his lats as often as possible but you can still see the wings of Sandow.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Nobody wants to help me.

 

[Dr. Feel Good]

Alright so I'm going to attempt the beginners routine from the OP. If I'm doing three days a week where should I mix in cardio? Will it help to do before/after doing weights? Or should I just stick to doing it on the days I don't do weights? Or do both?

Also I'm finding only sets of 3 and reps of 5 to be pretty.. easy. Is it wrong to want to do more like 8-10? I just feel like I get more satisfaction from doing so and it's the later ones where I have to work real hard to do them. Or should I be up-ing my weight so that doing 5 is a struggle?

 

[MjFrancis]

Well, the V-Taper is usually just having a narrow waist and a wider back. It's a description of the entire upper body. Anytime you hypertrophy muscles around the waist the symmetry is weakened. An Arnold back will dwarf his waist, but a Sandow back will compliment it.

 

[X-Frame]

Nobody wants to help me.

Jason, I would personally take either your A or B routine posted and split up those 2 days into 3 days.

Those are 4-5 main lifts that you're doing in one workout. It would seem hard to focus on so many and progress with so many performed so often.

Instead of 5 core lifts over 2 days, split it into 3 core lifts over 3 days. That way you can really focus on weight progression, your form, and then you'll have time afterwards for 1-2 accessory exercises to supplement your program like lower back, core, rotator cuff, etc.

Well, the V-Taper is usually just having a narrow waist and a wider back. It's a description of the entire upper body. Anytime you hypertrophy muscles around the waist the symmetry is weakened. An Arnold back will dwarf his waist, but a Sandow back will compliment it.

Gotcha. As per my user name -- I always learned that was the "Frame". So an X-Frame is having a wide upper body, down to a narrow waist, and then back to larger quads/legs.

The V-Frame would just be if you're talking about the upper body.

Spoiler

Then the Y-Frame .. well .. they get laughed at

And I agree. I love Sandow's look the more and more I see pictures. Too bad there are so few of and so poor quality. I think my avatar is one of the better quality pictures.

 

[MjFrancis]

Nobody wants to help me.

No really, I wish I could help, but I could only suggest doing more with less exercises. I don't know what rep ranges you are working with, but for instance I don't see why you're doing alternating single-arm db cleans after your cleans. Makes little sense from where I'm sitting.

That, and knowing the whole rep range and intensity you're working with. 3x5 @85%-95%1RM is crazy different from 5x5 or 3x10 at different intensities, too.

 

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

Eat more, sleep more. No agony, no bragony!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cC2QLorSKss

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

I definately want to do this at least once a week:

Mondays:


Deadlifts
bent over rows
pull ups
DB chest press
dips


So I guess I can do this another day:

Wednesdays:

front squats
stiff deadlifts
incline bench press

And for the final day:

Fridays:

Standing military press
power cleans
single arm DB snatches

Does that sound good, or is the first part at the top still too much? I'd figure doing deadlifts and bent over rows are only two main compound exercises for that day.

but for instance I don't see why you're doing alternating single-arm db cleans after your cleans. Makes little sense from where I'm sitting.

I do power cleans and then snatches. I meant to say single arm DB snatches. I can't do BB snatches. Too damn hard and i'm not that flexible.

My rep range is 3 sets of 6-8 reps going heavy.

 

[X-Frame]

Again, if it were me, I would drop SLDL's and move Bent-Over Rows into Day 2.

Doing a high intensity, flexed spinal movement like the Deadlift and then going right into another bent-over, flexed spinal position for the row might be too much for the lower back.

I don't see the need to do SLDL's if you're doing DL's to be honest.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

What's SLDL? Stiff deadlifts?

I guess I can move bent over rows to Wednesdays. Just seems odd mixing it up with what I'd be doing on that day unless I get rid of the stiffdeadlifts.

I dunno, doing deadlifts Mondays and then doing back again like bent over rows on Wednesdays seems too much?

EDIT-Can you guys just create a MWF routine using those exercises I've listed, minus the stiff deadlifts then?

 

[LogicStep]

Nobody wants to help me.

Me neither lol

 

[MjFrancis]

Yo guys so, it has been 2 months since I started the gym and I have raised the weight in all of my exercises a lot since I started. For example I started with like 25 lbs on the hammer and bicep curl but now I'm at 40 lbs for the last set (I do 30lbs 10 reps, 35lbs 8 reps, 40lbs 6+ reps). All of my workout is done in this fashion, is this the the optimal for gaining muscle or should I do all my sets with the max weight and max reps I can? Also, should I keep raising the weight on everything as soon as I feel I can raise it some (this is what I've been doing since day 1) or should I take a month and just stick to a weight to take it easy? I feel like I'm doing so much weight on my exercises but not seeing as much results as I would like. I eat good btw, around 250g of protein daily (I'm at 203lbs 6'3). I ask about the easy month because I'm starting to feel really tired after 2 days of working out (out of 4 per week).

Probably repost your routine. If I had to give any suggestions, I would say ditch the machines and dig into compound exercises. Most likely a complete overhaul of your routine.

I'm the guy who does simple shit for a workout and calls it a day, though. Some of my best workouts have been stuff like: Deadlifts and good mornings, or press, pull-ups and dips, or even a workout where the only thing I did was squat. I rarely touch machines - just barbell and bodyweight resistance for the most part.

 

[LogicStep]

I don't think I posted my routine but I don't do any of that. This is kind of hard since I don't know what most of these are called so I'll explain the exercise. This routine takes me 2hrs - 2.5hrs to complete taking 1-2minutes of rest between sets.

Monday/Wednesday = Biceps, Triceps, Shoulders, Forearms and Trapeziums

Triceps: 4
1- With a rope attached at the middle to a cable machine I pull down and open up a little at the end. 40lbs/10-12reps, 50lbs/8-10reps, 60lbs/6-8reps
2- Cable machine, grab the handle with my palm facing upwards and I pull down. 40lbs/10-12reps, 50lbs/8-10reps, 60lbs/6-8reps
3- Lying down on a bench with two dumbbells, hands straight up in front of me, bend one arm at a time taking the db to the side of my face. 25lbs/10reps, 27.5lbs/8reps, 30lbs/6reps
4- Sitting down on a seat with a back rest, take a db up above my head with both arms and bend my arms taking the db to the back of my head. 40lbs/10reps, 45lbs/8reps, 50lbs/6-8reps

Biceps: 4
1- Hammer curls (finally I know some names!) 30lbs/10reps, 35lbs/8reps, 40lbs/6-8reps
2- Bicep curls 30lbs/10reps, 35lbs/8reps, 40lbs/6-8reps
3- In a seated machine where you put plates on and you grab on to a handle with both hands pulling making a bicep curl motion sort of while your arms rest on a cushion keeping them straight. 45lbs/10reps, 55lbs/8reps, 65lbs/6-8reps
4- At a cable machine, using both sides of it but one arm at a time, grab a handle and pull all the way to the other side of the machine, extend my arm making it completely straight and make a bicep curl motion will my arm is pointing to the side bringing the handle towards the side of my face. 50lbs/10reps, 60lbs/8reps, 70lbs/6reps

Shoulders: 3
1- Dbs held in front of my face, palms facing my face, push up one at a time. During the upwards push turn the db around ending with the palm facing outwards. Halfway through the set changes to both arm at the same time. 25lbs/10reps, 27.5lbs/8reps, 30lbs/6-8reps
2- Military press 40lbs/10reps, 45lbs/8reps, 50lbs/6-8reps
3- I call it Sparta Grab a barbell, rest my hand with the bar next to my face while standing up and push up and back down to shoulder level. 30lbs/10reps x3

Forearms: 1
1- Grab dbs, hold them in front of me with my elbows right on my sides and drag the dbs to the sides and back to the center while my elbows don't move away from my sides. I do 10 reps with 20lbs and then grab a 40lbs bar, hold it with palms facing down, hold the bar a little far ahead of me and do a bicep curl motion but not full, keeping the arms around the middle so the forearms are working the most. (sorry hard to explain this one)

Trapeze: 1
1- Grab a 90lb bar and pull up a little keeping the bar around my crotch area I guess.

Tuesday/Thursday = Back, Chest and Legs

Back: 4
1- Wide Pulldown 115lbs/10reps, 130lbs/8reps, 145lbs/6reps
2- Close grip pulldown 115lbs/10reps, 130lbs/8reps, 145lbs/6reps
3- Cable machine sitting down with legs on two leg rests and grab onto a "v" shaped handle and pull towards my stomach. 115lbs/10reps, 130lbs/8reps, 145lbs/6reps
4- Machine, uses plates, handles are up in front of you when you sit on it and you pull downwards and back. 140lbs/10reps, 160lbs/8reps, 180lbs/6reps

Chest: 4
1- Machine incline press 110lbs/10reps, 130lbs/8reps, 150lbs/6-8reps
2- Machine pushing from the sides to the front center 110lbs/10reps, 140lbs/8reps, 180lbs/6-8reps
3- Bench press 135lbs/10reps, 155lbs/8reps, 170lbs/6-8reps
4- Machine fly 160lbs/10reps, 180lbs/8reps, 200lbs/6-8reps

Legs: 4
1- Machine sit on the sit cushion and put feet on a pushing plate. The push motion is upwards, it's sort of like a squat only you're sitting and pressing upwards. 180lbs/10reps, 270lbs/10reps, 360lbs/10reps
2- Machine sitting down with a cushion on top of your tibial and you extend your legs making them straight for the exercise. 100lbs/10reps, 115reps/10reps, 130lbs/10reps
3- Same sort of machine as the last one but you rest your legs already extended and you push down to reach a 90 degree angle. 100lbs/10reps, 115reps/10reps, 130lbs/10reps
4- Machine for calves, cushion on top of your trapeze and you just go up and down with just your calves. 185lbs/10reps, 195lbs/10reps, 205lbs/10reps

That's my whole routine, I take Friday-Sunday off. I try to eat as much as I can, I'm getting around 250g of protein and around 2300-3000 calories daily depending on what I can get in. Been doing this for 2 months, I started at 180lbs and now I'm at 210lbs. I didn't start with these weights in the routine, I kept going up as I started getting comfortable. Just wondering if I should just keep this up or what. I'm currently at 14" in my arm, I would love to get to 15-15.5". Dunno what else to say.

Sorry for the terrible routine layout, it's hard to explain them out and I don't know the names for most of these.

 

[snoopen]

triceps
1. rope pulldown
2. too vague sorry
3. db skull crusher
4. db shoulder press

biceps
1. yes
2. yes - are these db or bb
3. machine bicep curl (seems identical to 2, imo drop it.. you could do standing bicep curls with bb and seated db curls (2))
4. cable flyes?

shoulders
1. no idea
2. yes
3. sounds like military press? maybe you are doing overhead press with 2?

forearms
1. standing db curl? :/

trapeze
1. no idea.. maybe bentover row?

back
1. yes
2. yes
3. seated row (using the triangle/v/close grip/whatever you call it)
4. pulldown (heap of variables like 3 here.. close grip, wide group, generally lat pulldown)

chest
1. yes
2. no idea.. sounds like machine flye which you do in 4
3. yes
4. yes

legs
1. leg press
2. leg extension
3. seated leg curl
4. calf raise (you can do this standing or seated)

----

if you want more exercises.. add dips to one of your arms days (add a db if it's too easy), pullups (and or chinups) to your back day.. i like back extension too.

can also add squats to your leg day (i do leg press and squats).

sounds like a pretty solid program, keep it up.. make an excel spreadsheet and track your weights if you haven't already.

 

[Mecha_Infantry]

zazrx, your list seems to have some decent exercises but not good ones. Add some better mass/strength building ones which aggravate the tricep better=

-Close Grip Bench
-Flared Elbow cable pushdowns
-Elbows in cable pushdowns
-Close Dips to failure
-Bench Dips
-Skull Crushers
-Single Dumbell Raises
-Skull Crushers
-Dip machine

 

[Mecha_Infantry]

And also, zazrx, I love my back day and it's my strongest lift. So I would suggest for now dumping all machines if your gym has an assisted pullup machine. My back day looks like=

-Deadlifts
-Wide pullups
-Chin ups
-Bent over Barbell rows on smith machine
-T Bar rows with barbell wedged into a corner of a wall
-1 arm rows if i feel good

PS* does anyone have that site with people who just eat huge amount of food, are pretty huge and are old school lifters? No idea what it was called though

 

[Mecha_Infantry]

Urrgh ok one more! Legs say = too many machines again. A basic leg day =

1. Squat
2. 45 Degree/ horizontal Leg press
3. Stiff Leg Deadlifts (remember, deadlifts are really for your glutes and hamstrings, but stiff legged hits it hard)
4. Good Mornings
5. Leg Extensions (has to be on a machine)
6. Standing calf raises off a a ledge

 

[sixteen-bit]

Fitness-GAF, what are some good forearm exercises?

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

Fitness-GAF, what are some good forearm exercises?

Deadlifts

 

[MrOogieBoogie]

Thought you guys might enjoy this video a friend of a friend put together:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo2QssBiSGQ

Worked out with a couple of those guys before.

 

[kylej]

Fitness-GAF, what are some good forearm exercises?

Holding the 'inside' of the EZ Curl bar (inside the two bends) when doing preacher curls always lights more forearms up.

 

[Esch]

Couple months back in January i fell 3 stories and broke my back and wrist. Recovered enough to get out of the brace since April, and since then i've been able to start working out again, mostly boxing and distance cardio.

I started lifting again last week for the first time in 4 years, deads, bench, pistol squats+ kettlebell, weighted chins... all done reverse pyramid style. Managed to dead 205 last week and this week, 235. I'm on the rebound bros )))

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Holding the 'inside' of the EZ Curl bar (inside the two bends) when doing preacher curls always lights more forearms up.

lol, after seeing what rippetoe thinks of EZ bar for curls I'll never use em again. (They are made for comfort, not getting an effective result.)

Fitness-GAF, what are some good forearm exercises?

Pretty much anything that works grip.

deadlift, shrugs, etc. If you're holding weight in your hands, especially big weight, you're working forearms.

If you feel lacking, do some farmer carries.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Alright, mecha. You don't have to post three replies in a row. Just edit them.

And stop doing machines. They suck and are worthless.

 

[MjFrancis]

I don't think I posted my routine but I don't do any of that. This is kind of hard since I don't know what most of these are called so I'll explain the exercise. This routine takes me 2hrs - 2.5hrs to complete taking 1-2minutes of rest between sets.

[cut]

So you spend 8-10 hours in the gym over four days just for resistance/weight training? That's a lot of work in such a short period of time. Granted, you're gaining weight, but if this routine is already weighing you down after two months, I'm not surprised.

I think your lifts could increase and improve potential for gaining muscle should you change to a pre-made program formulated by an expert. You can keep doing what you want, but what I see is that you're blasting your triceps four days a week and you can probably bench a lot more than 170lbs for 6-8 reps. If you're stalling it's not because you aren't doing enough, it's because you're doing too much at this point.

As I see it, given your height your body was begging for some meat on them bones, and you've sufficiently shocked your body into adaptation. Further adaptation may require more than a AB/AB bodybuilding-style split. Maybe consider some of the program option in the OP?

 

[Enco]

Hurt my wrist so gonna have to skip on today's workout.. sucks.

 

[ShaneB]

I hate when I ignore this thread for so long I mean I've been going to the gym like crazy, but just don't post in here enough to keep in touch with fellow fitness-gaf.

I've gained 10lbs in the past 2 months while living with my aunt and uncle (damn food portions), but I guess for a guy bulking up, it's not a bad thing really.

I'll post some progress pictures later as well, looked at some pics from in January to one I took the other day, and it's pretty crazy to see those results, such a big motivator to keep kicking ass.

Also, I really should use Fitocracy, I bring my notepad to the gym and write down everything I do, so it makes sense that I should just plop it all into Fitocracy, also, I have a tonne of invites if anyone wants one.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

I've gained 10lbs in the past 2 months while living with my aunt and uncle (damn food portions), but I guess for a guy bulking up, it's not a bad thing really.

Sounds like you are doing it the right way, congrats.

 

[Chiave]

Everything in the OP is so true. I haven't worked out since High school and I started hitting the gym up about 3 months ago. The past few weeks I've been going regularly. I haven't gained much mass, but I am getting ripped! I'll probably ask for some tips tomorrow.

 

[fredrancour]

Hey fitness-gaf. Is there any difference between doing seated BB shoulder press and doing a standing OHP? I've been lifting since I got back to school, and I've been using the weight room in my dorm's basment instead of walking to the gym out of laziness. The basement's ceiling is too low for a regular ol' standing OHP so I've done the seated variant so far.

 

[X-Frame]

Hey fitness-gaf. Is there any difference between doing seated BB shoulder press and doing a standing OHP? I've been lifting since I got back to school, and I've been using the weight room in my dorm's basment instead of walking to the gym out of laziness. The basement's ceiling is too low for a regular ol' standing OHP so I've done the seated variant so far.

There are differences, such as more core stability required to do it standing versus seated, but if it's your only option to do them seated by all means.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd5dpk2o_bk

Anyway, my back seems to be back to punishable order. I did good mornings yesterday and I'm perfectly fine today. Going to go back tomorrow and go back at squats.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

ESPN 2 showing some kind of crossfit contest.

Had these guys doing a number of clean n jerks, then climbing up a rope, then back to clean n jerk, repeat, rinse. These guys are in shape, and they have some decent size on them.

I need to find a gym that has the rubber plates where you can drop the weight.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

ESPN 2 showing some kind of crossfit contest.

Had these guys doing a number of clean n jerks, then climbing up a rope, then back to clean n jerk, repeat, rinse. These guys are in shape, and they have some decent size on them.

I need to find a gym that has the rubber plates where you can drop the weight.

Bumper plates, that shit's annoying as hell though to everyone around you.

 

[SnakeXs]

K dudes of Fitness-Age, I need some butt workouts and tips. Hit me.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

K dudes of Fitness-Age, I need some butt workouts and tips. Hit me.

Glute bridges, squats, good mornings, deadlifts, lunges, leg curl, etc.

 

[Bit-Bit]

Gaf, after three months straight of working out, this is my deload week. And I've got to say, not working out sucks! It's like my body craves it!

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Gaf, after three months straight of working out, this is my deload week. And I've got to say, not working out sucks! It's like my body craves it!

You mean break week. Deload is when you cut back weight (you still lift). Did you take a break for a reason?

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

K dudes of Fitness-Age, I need some butt workouts and tips. Hit me.

Inject some of Rosanne's fat into your butt.