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[cormack12]

Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulta...ys-bethesda-should-switch-to-unreal-engine-5/

If there was one major complaint about Starfield when it launched in 2023, it was that many aspects of the game felt dated, leaning on aging Bethesda Creation Engine tech. Yes, the engine had been upgraded many times (this was the first game built on Creation Engine 2), and there were certainly some beautiful scenes in the game, so much of it felt overly familiar from years-old Bethesda games that players wondered if it was time for a change.

At least one former Bethesda dev agrees, Nate Purkeypile, a Lead Artist who worked on Starfield, Fallout and Skyrim, and has now set up his own studio. In a recent interview with KIWI TALKZ, he explained why he thinks it’s time for Bethesda to move over to Unreal Engine 5 after all this time:

“I think it’s pretty telling that there are some studios with similar tech that have made that leap lately like CD Projekt Red…It’s not to say that it wouldn’t be a ton of work…sure, that’s completely true, it’s not like you’re just going to be able to start making the game, but when you have this large toolbase and large knowledgebase people could pull from, it’s easier to hire people and ramp up.”

“I’m of the opinion…that it’s easier to stay relevant and not always try to play catch-up. Like a lot of what was done on Starfield was trying to get all these rendering systems and animation systems up to snuff and it makes it hard to even actually make the game. The way I describe it to people is that you’re on a train, but also laying the train tracks at the same time…but it’s also on fire the entire time.”

 

[digdug2]

I just recently learned that in Starfield, there is still a chest that exists underneath all of the shopkeepers holding all of the items that they sell. I figured that they gave that shit up after Skyrim... but I guess not. It's definitely time for an upgrade.

 

[Kurotri]

His train comment reminded me of this classic:

 

[Sebastian1295]

They know that the creation engine is a hunk of junk and runs and looks like crap. The only reason bethesda fans say that the creation engine is good is because of modding but you shouldn't need mods to make a game good if you're a good game developer which bethesda aren't anymore. Bethesda knows they can release games underbaked and underdeveloped because modders will fix it which in turn makes bethesda lazy and incompetent devs.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

I just recently learned that in Starfield, there is still a chest that exists underneath all of the shopkeepers holding all of the items that they sell. I figured that they gave that shit up after Skyrim... but I guess not. It's definitely time for an upgrade.

Yeah there was an exploit where in one of the towns, if you positioned yourself just right you could interact with the chest and take all the stuff from it lol. And there were ways to make yourself clip through the geometry so you could freely move under the geometry in some towns so you could see and loot all the chests.

 

[Magic Carpet]

Starfield feels like a remaster of a much older game. Old. I also don't have the time to delve into modding like I did when I was younger.

 

[LectureMaster]

But it just works.

 

[adamsapple]

How about Bethesda let all their internal studios use Id Tech and let other MS studios like Coalition focus on UE5?

 

[Wildebeest]

Then their games can be bad and disappointing in a totally different and more industry standard way.

 

[digdug2]

Yeah there was an exploit where in one of the towns, if you positioned yourself just right you could interact with the chest and take all the stuff from it lol. And there were ways to make yourself clip through the geometry so you could freely move under the geometry in some towns so you could see and loot all the chests.

That's hilarious. Who knew they would have kept all of the exploits that were present in Skyrim too? It IS Bethesda though!

 

[Mister Wolf]

Are any of you impressed with Starfield's visuals? They should have moved on a long time ago.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Abandoning a turd they could barely code with another turd(that has some potential) that they can barely code with it. No matter what engine they switch to, they'll expect their consumers to fix it for them.

 

[Alexios]

Most of the stuff people make fun of have little to do with the engine and would probably be programmed the exact same half assed way in any other. Same for the Unity hate fad some time ago, it's not like we don't have major complains for how UE5 does some things games suffer from.

Anyway, dude is a former Bethesda dev so has no reason to care about it any more, looking forward to his achievements in UE5. Though it looks rather generic and garish for someone who was a lead artist on some fantastic looking games, I guess one person doesn't make all the difference.

There is some creativity concept wise there perhaps, with the bones theme and everything, but the actual design of all the assets built is just like they would be in any other random game, no fancy and consistent styling like Metroid Prime 3, no flair to the textbook particle effects or anything.

Edit: oh wait, it's actually already released, lol. ~200 free key reviews, guess he needs the clickbait.

 

[Jinzo Prime]

I just recently learned that in Starfield, there is still a chest that exists underneath all of the shopkeepers holding all of the items that they sell. I figured that they gave that shit up after Skyrim... but I guess not. It's definitely time for an upgrade.

I don't love UE5, but Creation Engine needs to go.

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

It's about time we got a new single player Elder Scroll or Fallout game. Easily some of the best and most fun games ever made infinitely better with their infinite modding potential.

 

[Tertullian]

In the future, we won't even refer to "video games" anymore. We'll just call them "unreal engines" as we sigh and install all 3 terabytes of hard drive space that one single unreal engine requires.

 

[Jinzo Prime]

How about Bethesda let all their internal studios use Id Tech and let other MS studios like Coalition focus on UE5?

After all the work Playground Games has done to make ForzaTech into a RPG game engine, I think they should use that instead. I don't think we've seen ID Tech used in an open-world before, but ForzaTech certainly has.

 

[mansoor1980]

At least one former Bethesda dev agrees, Nate Purkeypile,

 

[Unknown Soldier]

In the future, we won't even refer to "video games" anymore. We'll just call them "unreal engines" as we sigh and install all 3 terabytes of hard drive space that one single unreal engine requires.

It would unironically be nice if you could just install and separately update the Unreal Engine from the game data so games which used old and busted UE versions could be forcefully upgraded to the newer better versions

 

[SHA]

Ue5 on next generation consoles will target 60fps, but what matters is using the full set of the engine instead of jumping to ue6 cause it's pointless at this case cause consoles must get image clarity like PCs.

 

[Laptop1991]

I'm not sure UE5 is going to be any better, then there is all the mods to consider, is UE5 moddable the same way the Creation Engine is.

 

[Fess]

Just go with id tech 7 instead, seems to handle physics and item placements and it’s their own engine anyway. Unreal Engine 5 just seems to come with problems from what I’ve seen so far, unless the game is super linear and slow like Hellblade 2

 

[Buggy Loop]

Like a lot of what was done on Starfield was trying to get all these rendering systems and animation systems up to snuff and it makes it hard to even actually make the game

Wtf happened then.

 

[StereoVsn]

Problem is that UE5 seems to be an engine where you absolutely need to know what you are doing for optimization. I have 0 faith in Bethesda on that aspect.

And if there are no mods folks will look a LOT more critically at their games since there won’t be community fixes and enhancements anymore, at least not at the same scale.

So it’s a big risk to Bethesda either way.

 

[th4tguy]

When UE4 was first being demoed behind closed doors at trade shows, it was shown off to Bethesda and they were seriously considering it for their future projects.
They ultimately decided against it and that was for the better as at the time, it couldn’t handle big open environments and globally tracking items in the world like what Bethesda games is known for.
Of course pubg came out and they worked close with Epic to get those features in the engine. Epic used that to get Fortnite going (save the world).

 

[Mattyp]

IDTech, it’s already in house at Microsoft use it. Beast of an engine

 

[Badlucktroll]

I bet Elder Scrolls 6 will be creation engine and get laughed at

 

[Brakum]

While im not a fan of too many games using UE. Leaving the creation engine for literally anything else was a good idea 15 years ago already

 

[Barakov]

It'd be a smarter choice to go with ID tech 7. At this point the less games that use UE5 the better.

 

[Bry0]

I would trust their engineers to have a good reason as to why idtech is not a candidate for Bethesda games. It’s not easy to swap engines and using idtech does not solve the “on the train and laying the tracks at the same time” problem considering there are probably a million things it can’t do that ue5 does out of the box.

 

[RavionUHD]

IDTech7 would be good, can look really great on PC with Path Tracing!

 

[Kumomeme]

The way I describe it to people is that you’re on a train, but also laying the train tracks at the same time…but it’s also on fire the entire time.”

expectation :

reality :

 

[vaibhavpisal]

This would be the worst move they can make.

Let Bethesda games be Bethesda games instead of homogenisation.

It might be hard work, so let other devs like Obsidian use it.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

We know ES VI will definitely use it, so this would really be a change for our grandchildren playing Fallout 5 or ES VII.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

I love their engine. Bethesda games would not feel right using another engine. I hate all the talking about Bethesda homogenizing their work. Absolutely an awful idea.

 

[GigaBowser]

creaton engine jonky buuuut still fun I am in the land of skyrim

 

[Prekk]

Gamebryo vs Unreal Engine

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Just go with id tech 7 instead, seems to handle physics and item placements

nah I had guns and melee weapons disappear all the time on me in the great circle, I could drop something at the start of the game in fallout/starfield, and it will still be there 60 hours of playing later.

 

[rapid32.5]

Indiana had tons of pop in during boat section on tech 7, they need to retire it. It’s pretty up close but inferior for open world or fast paced action.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

Are any of you impressed with Starfield's visuals? They should have moved on a long time ago.

It's the cleanest looking Beth game that they ever put out, but I agree. This engine has been somewhat like a boxing match with Satan's nutsack.
We're always on the losing end.

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

They know the moding scene keeps their games sales going for years and years. The crap engine they use is very easy for moders to use. I doubt they will change.

 

[IAmRei]

Most of the stuff people make fun of have little to do with the engine and would probably be programmed the exact same half assed way in any other. Same for the Unity hate fad some time ago, it's not like we don't have major complains for how UE5 does some things games suffer from.

Anyway, dude is a former Bethesda dev so has no reason to care about it any more, looking forward to his achievements in UE5. Though it looks rather generic and garish for someone who was a lead artist on some fantastic looking games, I guess one person doesn't make all the difference.

There is some creativity concept wise there perhaps, with the bones theme and everything, but the actual design of all the assets built is just like they would be in any other random game, no fancy and consistent styling like Metroid Prime 3, no flair to the textbook particle effects or anything.

Edit: oh wait, it's actually already released, lol. ~200 free key reviews, guess he needs the clickbait.

The one color post processing is kind of too atmospheric in not a good way, and the combat kind of too 2000 for me. By the presentation, is not looking good, unfortunately.

Although while the odd post processing is normal, is fine though...

 

[The Pleasure]

Is that you, Bethesda? Is this me?

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

IDTech7 would be good, can look really great on PC with Path Tracing!

It somehow manages but as a hub. No way could they make a whole open world with this engine without something breaking.

 

[ChoosableOne]

Stalker 2 sometimes looks a lot like Fallout. If a Fallout or even an Elder Scrolls game were made with the same engine, I don't think anyone would say no.

 

[Thief1987]

What this screenshot is supposed to show? Corridor? And I bet that these bushes around are invisible walls too?

 

[Stuart360]

I love their engine. Bethesda games would not feel right using another engine. I hate all the talking about Bethesda homogenizing their work. Absolutely an awful idea.

Problem is the engine is just getting too old. Starfield was like pushing it to its limit already.

i get what you mean though. Its like COD and how it still uses an engine that is Quake 3 at its core. COD devs in the past have admitted they are shit scared of moving to a different engine as they coulfd lose that 'COD feel'. Its same with the old Build Engine games and how they all had a certain feel to the gameplay.

 

[Calico345]

It's the cleanest looking Beth game that they ever put out, but I agree. This engine has been somewhat like a boxing match with Satan's nutsack.
We're always on the losing end.

 

[Mayar]

I think everyone in their right mind understands perfectly well that the engine needs to be changed. It's strange that in their current situation and funding they themselves do not want to create their own new engine, considering that they constantly make games on the same engine, they will recoup it in any case. Plus they have access to ID technology and their engine, so I don't particularly see any problems with the choice and why they need to switch to Unreal 5. It's about the same as if EA, having Frosbyte, suddenly decided to make games on Unreal 5.

The main problem with changing the engine is that it will actually be the death of the modding community. Unless, of course, they specifically make tools for the new engine. Considering the mood in their studio and the fact that they are constantly being smacked in the face for the fact that modders do things better than them, plus the attempt to monetize mods through their built-in store - it seems to me that this will not end well for the Modders.

 

[Fess]

What this screenshot is supposed to show? Corridor? And I bet that these bushes around are invisible walls too?

? Just showing some nice id tech 7 visuals that could work in a Bethesda game.

Imagine that it’s The Elder Scrolls, you traverse a nicely vegetated world, explore and find a dungeon, some scary stuff, climbing a mountain and end up in some cabin with some old man giving you advice how to unravel some ancient mystery, etc

Spoiler: Beware, more Indy, but no UI to distract…

If you can’t see it then you don’t want to see it.

And no problem with open areas and movement freedom here, and day, night, indoor, rain, physics, all there, and every leaf is moving as it should in the wind, detailed world, nature everywhere, with all the fancy graphical effects and path tracing RT. As far as I can see id has put it all in there.

I don’t see what UE5 would bring to the table. Except shader stutter or some other annoying thing. Plus licensing fees. And engine problems out of their hands.