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Forza 3 vs Gran Turismo 5 Comparison Thread of John, Chapter 11, Verse 35

P

phil_t

Banned
Apex said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1EEZe-Eqto
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Am I missing something here, but I don't get what that video is supposed to prove, is it a stealth dig at GT?

I say this because, the GT tyres are half the width, the front aero seems the same size or smaller, and somehow it's generating the same grip in the corners?

It kind of sounds that the video was made to signify that GT can produce a similar time to real life which proves what? certainly there is no direct relationship between physics processing and ability to set a lap time that is close to real life??

I am confused on this one..
 
J

jett

D-Member
phil_t said:
Am I missing something here, but I don't get what that video is supposed to prove, is it a stealth dig at GT?

I say this because, the GT tyres are half the width, the front aero seems the same size or smaller, and somehow it's generating the same grip in the corners?

It kind of sounds that the video was made to signify that GT can produce a similar time to real life which proves what? certainly there is no direct relationship between physics processing and ability to set a lap time that is close to real life??

I am confused on this one..
Click to expand...


Hey there smartguy, notice how the clock icon is shaped like an egg? It's because the video is stretched vertically, that's why the tires look thinner.
 
K

Kowak

Banned
I just hope that GT5 has better AI then GT5P, it pissed me off seeing the same cars go off at the same places at the start of each race.
 
R

Redbeard

Banned
jaypah said:
lol, it's getting serious.
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It got serious when even bullshots get photoshopped

fe2i3a.jpg


vz7lf4.jpg


2002_Ferrari_Enzo_Ferrari_5.jpg


The bullshot game actually helps FM3 because unlike GT's models, FM3's in game models and bullshot models are worlds apart.
 
B

belvedere

Junior Butler
Arnie said:
Iknos replied perfectly. The Gif you commented on was also taken completely out of context in a manner which fuels the suspicion brought about by a preview already proven to be devoid of any real credibility. Furthmore it contradicts previews which have credibility in the critiquing the genre such as Inside Sim Racing.
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Fair enough, but my comments still weren't drawn from that .gif. Also, even if you could somehow prove that FM3's physics are perfect, it doesn't make GT5's physics (or past physics) any worse. The GT series has long been criticized about it's collision physics, but never about how the car has handled on the track in comparison to the cars real life counterparts. Also, since all of us know there will be damage, but none of us have seen it (or played it) in final form it's interesting, and convenient, that previous iterations are still the target for criticism.
 
J

jett

D-Member
Kowak said:
I just hope that GT5 has better AI then GT5P, it pissed me off seeing the same cars go off at the same places at the start of each race.
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Going by the gamescom demo it seems the AI will be as stupid as ever, as they AI recklessly crashes into you, as that one gif cleary demonstrates. :p


danwarb said:
Replays have motion blur and other effects.
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Motion blur and depth of field is added, the lighting/shadowing/shading/texturing/etc remains exactly the same. And btw motion blur and DOF are gone when you watch a replay from a gameplay camera.

Yep, but these are all off-screen photos.
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Unfortunately for you I don't think real direct-feed pictures of Forza 3 exist.
 
J

jaypah

Member
Redbeard said:
It got serious when even bullshots get photoshopped


The bullshot game actually helps FM3 because unlike GT's models, FM3's in game models and bullshot models are worlds apart.
Click to expand...

:lol oh my God! i'm actually laughing out loud, which i rarely do while on the net. damn, i'm going to have to remember to check this thread out later. it's getting HOT up in this bitch!

on topic: both games are looking awesome. cain't wait for the F3 demo and GT details tomorrow.

Interfectum said:
jett throwing down the real talk... wow :lol :lol
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it's fun watching both sides pulling out all the stops in what is quite clearly a joke thread.
 
N

nib95

Banned
KHarvey16 said:
Debug mode error, already brought up in the FM3 thread and addressed. Nice try though.
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What was addressed about it out of curiosity? Did they explain what they shopped?
 
P

phil_t

Banned
jett said:
Hey there smartguy, notice how the clock icon is shaped like an egg? It's because the video is stretched vertically, that's why the tires look thinner.
Click to expand...

We are talking a factor of 2 here, even correcting for aspect, (I presume 16:9 -> 4:3) which accounts for 33% increase in width, that still doesn't add up remotely..

And if that is a different model of F1 car (looks different to me), I've never know different models produce identical laptimes in real life either..

It's nice to show how close the circuit looks to real life etc, but it sounded like it was being posted of proof of something, I can't logically see what it proves of worth tbh..
 
Slayer-33

Slayer-33

Liverpool-2
MMaRsu said:
Holy shit is that F3? Fuuuuuuuuuck
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ya it is, just a bad gif though.. Car is turning in at 33mph but some think it's going much faster, working on the new gif still lol...
 
K

KHarvey16

Member
Redbeard said:
Addressed by Che :lol
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Oh man, you got them! They photoshopped those images to make them look good but didn't notice the huge incongruity smack in the middle of the photo.

Brilliant analysis sir.
 
Y

Yoritomo

Member
jaypah said:
:lol oh my God! i'm actually laughing out loud, which i rarely do while on the net. damn, i'm going to have to remember to check this thread out later. it's getting HOT up in this bitch!

on topic: both games are looking awesome. cain't wait for the F3 demo and GT derails tomorrow.



it's fun watching both sides pulling out all the stops in what is quite clearly a joke thread.
Click to expand...

FTFY

I love this thread.
 
F

FortunateSon

Banned
SeaOfMadness said:
ok please enlighten us. what have you seen? link the video please with your specific critique so we can be sure we understand properly.
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I saw a couple of videos, haven't had a chance to pay the game. When I do, I'll critique it. But from the videos, people that say Forza has fantastic physics? Why don't they go in detail?

For example, rollovers? That shit ain't realistic physics bro. Tire deformation? Ohhh.

The dynamics of the physics engine were okay at best, but I've played around with a few cars and they don't handle at all in real life like they do in Forza. So what you smoking? This is from Forza 2 by the way, but I've yet to play Forza 3 before I can come back and give proper critique.


and you're biased towards GT so i guess you guys balance each other out :)
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The difference is, I don't hide it. He tries to act fair and shit when he knows he is biased towards F3. Gtfo.
 
V

-viper-

Banned
phil_t said:
It kind of sounds that the video was made to signify that GT can produce a similar time to real life which proves what? certainly there is no direct relationship between physics processing and ability to set a lap time that is close to real life??

I am confused on this one..
Click to expand...
I think you're confused because this is a GT5P video as opposed to a Forza 3 video.

The fact the same car has produced pretty much the exact same time is outstanding. No direct relationship between physics and processing and ability to set a lap time close to real life? What...

I think it shows the physics are more realistic than you think. Probably also shows how the F1 car is accurate in GT5P, and the Suzuka track is well made in the game.
 
K

KHarvey16

Member
So you disagree with the opinions of most experienced racers (sim and otherwise) that FM2 had better driving physics than GT5:p? You seem to think this is something new or unknown.
 
J

jaypah

Member
Yoritomo said:
FTFY

I love this thread.
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just think about it. by this time tomorrow hopefully we'll have a full GT5 blowout and hands on with the F3 demo. this place is going to be fucking bananas. i usually check the GT5 and F3 threads daily for a mere glimpse of the sadness that is this entire thread. it's like Bish unlocked a bounty of happiness and made a thread that has the sole intention of providing me with hours upon hours of joy. they're all so serious. IT'S JUST GAMES! :lol
 
V

-viper-

Banned
danwarb said:
Replays have motion blur and other effects.



Yep, but these are all off-screen photos.
Click to expand...
Off screen photos are absolutely unholy while F3 bullshots are perfectly acceptable.

:lol
 
C

Chrange

Banned
KHarvey16 said:
Oh man, you got them! They photoshopped those images to make them look good but didn't notice the huge incongruity smack in the middle of the photo.

Brilliant analysis sir.
Click to expand...

Everyone photoshops by first selecting only a portion of the picture, didn't you know that?
 
S

StriKeVillain

Banned
jaypah said:
just think about it. by this time tomorrow hopefully we'll have a full GT5 blowout and hands on with the F3 demo. this place is going to be fucking bananas. i usually check the GT5 and F3 threads daily for a mere glimpse of the sadness that is this entire thread. it's like Bish unlocked a bounty of happiness and made a thread that has the sole intention of providing me with hours upon hours of joy. they're all so serious. IT'S JUST GAMES! :lol
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Fucking this. It's pathetic when you think about it.
 
Z

Zoink

Member
Iknos said:
As it was pointed out those "Top Gear" impressions were written by a guy not associated with the show.
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To be fair, that probably makes his opinions more authoritative - the show is presented by a lanky goon who broke his neck driving a Nissan round a corner, a grinning bufoon who almost killed himself driving in a straight line and a self-styled toff nicknamed 'Captain Slow'.
 
R

Recoil

Member
Redbeard said:
It got serious when even bullshots get photoshopped
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This was apparently an artifacting/rendering error in the dev cap tool they used for pre-release screenshots. There's no photoshopping going on at all there, according to Che.


Even if there was, wouldn't the point of Photoshopping be to make the game look better, and not worse? :lol
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
cyberheater said:
Does that work on a PC as well?
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yes. and from many impressions it has a wheel thats on a par with the G25 (button layout is different, and has smaller paddle shifters but other than that the feel etc is supposed to be on par). The only real difference is the pedals - only had brake and accelerator, and the gear shifter is fixed on the right side of the wheel. Both of those are reasonable compromises for me so I went for the GT.
 
F

FortunateSon

Banned
KHarvey16 said:
So you disagree with the opinions of most experienced racers (sim and otherwise) that FM2 had better driving physics than GT5:p? You seem to think this is something new or unknown.
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Can you come out straight and prove that Forza 2 physics are better than GT5: P?
 
I

Iknos

Junior Member
belvedere said:
I distinctly remember (only because a fellow NASIOC member said it) that he went back to playing FM1 (I know lol) because FM2's cars were too "floaty". This got a big debate going at one of the meets and this was back in 07. I also remember a small debate on an episode of 1up yours.
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I totally agree that FM2 had some physics issues. The center of gravity is too high and that resulted in a "floaty" feel for obvious reasons.

But we are talking FM3 and when the ISR guys played it at E3 they were floored and hinted that it even compared to PC sims in terms of physics.

And it makes sense because this time T10 is doing things PC sims have done for years like tire flex and deformation.

FortunateSon said:
Forza 3 bro does not have fantastoc physics from what I've seen. What defines good physics here for you? I'm just wondering.

And I know your a pretty fair guy but your pretty bias towards F3 from what I've read of your posts.
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For a console racer anything that can even compare to LFS at least. You can get clues about how a game handles by watching vids but really first hand impressions trump what you might get from a vid. And that's all I'm going by here.

I think FM gets too much unnecessary hate here that's for sure so I am defending it more often than not. In the FM3 thread I criticize the game in all aspects but yeah I try to keep it fair.

I have to say I'm equally looking forward to both games and plan to play the hell out of both but you are right when you say that I lean towards Forza and it's been like that since FM2. My GT fandom peaked at GT3 and for some reason I wasn't much interested in playing much of GT4.

Both games have issues and FM3 and GT5 seem to be addressing those very issues. IMO there's not much to complain about.

I'm surprised that this thread has hit full gear and neither game is out. When both are out all of those getting both should post a comparison.
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
I do sometimes think that polyphony concentrate more on the absolute representation of the car and how it drives, sometimes at the expense of the bigger picture. So collisions, skid marks etc are considered secondary to the core replication of a car driving on a track.

I do think games like Forza and (god help me for mentioning this here) games like NFS:shift and even (jesus) GRID have moved the game on, and people expect a more complete 'race' package now.

It'll be interesting to see what GT5 has that prologue doesn't, but I'm hoping for a lot more than just prologue with more cars.
 
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