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[phil_t]

I agree. People playing with controllers may think both are similar or even FM2 feels better but on a DFP/MS wheel Prologue feels better to me.

It's pretty subjective and few of us can expertly comment on this. I haven't driven hundreds of real sports cars for example. But I do a lot of driving and I feel Prologue really gets the feel of the car right. I've thoroughly enjoyed GT3 and some of 4 but when I played Prologue that is when I felt that GT got it right.

When I hear the improvements T10 is making I feel confident that it will play at least as good as Prologue. When I hear it being compared to PC sims I get very very excited.

A sensible post too!

When I play either game, It takes a little while to get into their respective physics, but there is much to like about each, and some glaringly obvious deficiences..

I can see how anyone could prefer one to the other, but for people to say one is rubbish in comparison is just idiocy..

 

[jett]

Pretty sure that's a replay shot as you can see a vignette around the screen.

He is right about the LOD stuff. Prologue has some very noticable LOD changes while racing and the replay models are good step above the in-game models.

What you should marvel at is how you have 16 cars on a track all with their own independent physics calculations. I think that is the biggest bottleneck here.

It's an off-screen shot. There's no vignette. Only one replay camera uses vignettes and that's not it. That's actually the regular cockpit view, which you can turn as you race with the second analog stick. It has no post-process effects added in replay before you mention that, and even if that picture was from a replay which it very well could be(although I don't remember if you could pause the game during a replay), it wouldn't matter as all gameplay cameras run at 60fps during replays.

 

[Yoritomo]

I'm just here for one reason, I just want to see this whole superior physics that everyone keeps saying about Forza Motorsport 3. Because I just didn't see it from playing Forza 2.

You're probably just used to GT, the real understeer simulator.

 

[Teknoman]

Playing music while racing is blasphemy, although I'm sure if you're playing Forza you wouldn't mind some music to cover the mediocre sounds.

I dunno, I like Gran Turismo's tracks (well 3 and 4 anyway), and they often go well with the races.

 

[H_Prestige]

During replays, you can either watch the cinematic 30fps stuff with the extra effects, or you can switch to any of the regular racing views at 60fps without any extra effects.

 

[alba]

Lawlerskates, Holy shiet and this is before demo is out and months before a GT5 release date.

Months before a release date? We'll get the release date in a few hours (confirmed by a sony rep).

 

[-viper-]

It's an off-screen shot. There's no vignette. Only one replay camera uses vignettes and that's not it. That's actually the regular cockpit view, which you can turn as you race with the second analog stick. It has no post-process effects added in replay before you mention that, and even if that picture was from a replay which it very well could be(although I don't remember if you could pause the game during a replay), it wouldn't matter as all gameplay cameras run at 60fps during replays.

It's a gameplay shot. You can't pause or restart for that matter during a replay.

 

[duk]

cant wait til the next chapter + verse

 

[jett]

That's offscreen my jett-o-full-o-love

Littleberu, sweet prince, I know it is and it doesn't matter.

It's a gameplay shot. You can't pause or restart for that matter during a replay.

I figured. What now, Iknos?

 

[Iknos]

Are you talking about those guys from Inside Sim Racing? Aren't those the same idiots that did a comparison with GT5: P and Forza 2 and said Forza 2 was just slightly better?

The scores came out to "much better" and they disclaimered that and said the fact that Prologue had less cars and tracks were responsible for that. Assuming it had more cars then yes FM3 would be slightly better.

And they are right I don't see how you could call them "idiots" just because you disagree with them.

:lol :lol :lol Holy shit. And you dsicredit Top Gear? Bro, come on now.

I didn't discredit TG. I discredited the freelance writer who ISN'T associated with TG.

Compared to PC racing sims? Like I said, can't wait to get my hands on this game. I would love to prove those idiots claiming Forza 3 has superior OMFG physics.

The guys at ISR play ever single sim under the sun. Your opinion hold little weight to theirs.

Bullshit. You are just defending it because you are bias to FM3. Don't give excuses.

Take a look at my posts in this very thread. I'm only correcting people with facts here. I'm not going out of my way to prove any point about Forza but when someone says something wrong I point them in the right direction.

Well, guess you are bias towards FM. I'm not even sure why you even want to play GT5 when you clearly said "my GT fandom peaked at GT3 and for some reason I wasn't much interested in playing much of GT4" but suddenly you are all interested in playing GT5? Come on man.

Yeah now you are going into the "batshit insane" category I was talking about earlier...

 

[Yoritomo]

I dunno, I like Gran Turismo's tracks (well 3 and 4 anyway), and they often go well with the races.

Sorry, I'm just throwing out meat scraps for the hounds to fight over. I apologize if you've taken anything I've said seriously.

I remember the soundtrack being decent but given all the time you end up spending in the livery editor I'd just start up a custom playlist.

I also believe the soundtrack doesn't play during races but it's been a year since I've messed with Forza.

 

[BravoSuperStar]

I dunno, I like Gran Turismo's tracks (well 3 and 4 anyway), and they often go well with the races.

Every time I hear a song by the Cardigans, I think of GT. Any song.

 

[FortunateSon]

But somehow the tracks in Forza 3 look better then GT5's empty fields of green or brown amirite?

Yeah, like Forza's horrible plastic car designs?

People with experience saying "this is better than that" is too ambiguous for you?

Your fucking pointless. It's still another opinion. I'm asking, can you prove it? You still haven't answered. Prove it that Forza has the definitive physics system.

 

[Iknos]

It's an off-screen shot. There's no vignette. Only one replay camera uses vignettes and that's not it. That's actually the regular cockpit view, which you can turn as you race with the second analog stick. It has no post-process effects added in replay before you mention that, and even if that picture was from a replay which it very well could be(although I don't remember if you could pause the game during a replay), it wouldn't matter as all gameplay cameras run at 60fps during replays.

Yeah I corrected myself right after I posted that. It would have to be an offscreen shot.

 

[Epic Tier 3 Engineer]

Forza definitely looks more cartoony, and the the environments look exaggerated...and wonderful.

I still think GT5 takes the crown. I like the overall style of the entire package over Forza, historically. It just exudes class, from the menus to the car models to the presentation. It's cool that you can paint stuff on your Forza cars and all, but eh.

 

[TheSeks]

Any of these games will allow my to pimp out my car with body kits and change my car into a rice rocket?

If you mean car->Motorcycle, neither.

If you mean: "Own my own car and have it unique compared to the showroom": Forza 3 by a landslide (unless GT5 added this in the past five years, doubtful).

Also, I'll agree that Forza's physics have started to fuck up, 2 was terrible. 3 we'll see, but anyone that thinks Forza 1's driving Physics aren't better than GT (3, 4? Did 4 come out slightly before/after Forza?) is smoking something. Forza 1 made you feel like you were driving a car, if you hit a wall it "hurt." You can't say the same for GT's physics. Hopefully GT5 fixes it, but I can't hold my breath. They still won't let you customize your car, so you're basically driving showroom cars around a circuit x 50. *yawn*

(Forza does the same thing, Forza 4/GT6: GIVE ME MY GODDAMN SPRINTS)

 

[bishoptl]

Your fucking pointless. It's still another opinion. I'm asking, can you prove it? You still haven't answered. Prove it that Forza has the definitive physics system.

 

[Yoritomo]

Your fucking pointless. It's still another opinion. I'm asking, can you prove it? You still haven't answered. Prove it that Forza has the definitive physics system.

What about his pointless?

 

[jett]

NM, misread.

 

[jaypah]

Are you talking about those guys from Inside Sim Racing? Aren't those the same idiots that did a comparison with GT5: P and Forza 2 and said Forza 2 was just slightly better? :lol :lol :lol Holy shit. And you dsicredit Top Gear? Bro, come on now.

Compared to PC racing sims? Like I said, can't wait to get my hands on this game. I would love to prove those idiots claiming Forza 3 has superior OMFG physics.



Well, I saw the videos, some of the latest ones. And Forza 3 does seem to handle like a magic carpet. I even saw the full video, it feels as if there is no traction between the ground and the car tires. There is no weight to the car.



Bullshit. You are just defending it because you are bias to FM3. Don't give excuses.



Well, guess you are bias towards FM. I'm not even sure why you even want to play GT5 when you clearly said "my GT fandom peaked at GT3 and for some reason I wasn't much interested in playing much of GT4" but suddenly you are all interested in playing GT5? Come on man.


I'm just here for one reason, I just want to see this whole superior physics that everyone keeps saying about Forza Motorsport 3. Because I just didn't see it from playing Forza 2.

whoa dude, calm down, take it easy. it's just games man.

 

[Dra-Q]

Forza definitely looks more cartoony[...]

.

 

[danwarb]

A generation gap.:lol

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j35/kohanson/458Italia3forza.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j35/kohanson/458Italia2.jpg

Try again turn10.

Yes it is, GT5 will never look quite like that.

 

[jett]

:lol

 

[tonitoni]

How about some context for the magic carpet thing?

"When things go a bit pear-shaped, the impacts feel nice and solid. But strangely enough, when things are going smoothly, it can feel a bit too, well, smooth. It almost feels like you're driving some kind of magic carpet, hovering just above the track itself. A real feeling of movement and feedback is difficult for a game to accurately create, admittedly, but we couldn't help but feel slightly detached."

Aren't they just saying that the camera doesn't shake, thus giving the player a very smooth feeling unlike driving a real car?

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I will keep this brief as a lot has been said already but from a gameplay standpoint both seem the same. Graphics, presentation, and overall polish are GT5. Both game look to be great no matter.

 

[-viper-]

Sorry, I'm just throwing out meat scraps for the hounds to fight over. I apologize if you've taken anything I've said seriously.

I remember the soundtrack being decent but given all the time you end up spending in the livery editor I'd just start up a custom playlist.

I also believe the soundtrack doesn't play during races but it's been a year since I've messed with Forza.

In game music is necessary for me to race, otherwise it just feels boring as hell.

 

[Yoritomo]

Forza definitely looks more cartoony, and the the environments look exaggerated...and wonderful.

Any anime fan would tell you cartoons are better than live action. If you doubt their allegiance then just check the auction house in Forza.

 

[Yoritomo]

In game music is necessary for me to race, otherwise it just feels boring as hell.

BLASPHEMY

I think Forza 3 allows you to play their soundtrack in game.

 

[duderon]

I think it's fun to watch the soldiers on each side try to discredit either racer, but once we get down to it there will be few noticeable differences between Forza 3 and GT5. Yes GT5 will have double the cars, but when looking at the games and playing them, they will be hard to distinguish for 99% of gamers. Some will not be fortunate enough to own both games, but when the comparisons stop a few months from now, I don't think one game will effectively trump the other. Both games look to be excellent simulation efforts from what I can see right now.

But haters gonna hate, so on with the festivities.

 

[szaromir]

Graphics, presentation, and overall polish are GT5.

GT5 has loooong ways to come since gamescom demo before that statement is true.

 

[Guy Legend]

Graphically (all I can really assess right now) is that Gran Turismo looks better than Forza. Clearly better.

 

[Stop It]

Every time I hear a song by the Cardigans, I think of GT. Any song.

That song (My favourite game, obviously) still resonates with me, and always make me think about how fucking awesome Gran Turismo 2 was.

In terms of it's impact on me, GT2 still ranks up there as one of my finest gaming experiences. Anyway, this thread is lurching towards the insane, but I must say this:

Guys who are blatantly fanboys of one game or the other (Both sides appear as insane eas the other here) but are calling out others for dissing "their" game while doing the exact same thing, wtf is wrong with your brain wiring?

Edit: *looks at bishs' picture, again*

Scary.

 

[Niks]

This thread certainly delivers!
:lol

 

[mentalfloss]

Umm.. is the left shot actually in-game?

Spoiler

OH GAWD PLEASE DUN BAN ME

 

[Captain Pants]

You are just defending it because you are bias to FM3. Don't give excuses.

Well, guess you are bias towards FM..

I'd just like to take a time out here and point out that a person can't be 'bias'.

Bias is a term used to describe a tendency or preference towards a particular perspective, ideology or result, especially when the tendency interferes with the ability to be impartial, unprejudiced, or objective.

The term biased is used to describe an action, judgment, or other outcome influenced by a prejudged perspective. It is also used to refer to a person or body of people whose actions or judgments exhibit bias.

If this thread can get more people to start using these words properly, it will have been a great success.

 

[FortunateSon]

The scores came out to "much better" and they disclaimered that and said the fact that Prologue had less cars and tracks were responsible for that. Assuming it had more cars then yes FM3 would be slightly better.

But who does a comparison in the first place when one is a full game and the other just a demo? It's retarded no?

And they are right I don't see how you could call them "idiots" just because you disagree with them.

I called them idiots because these guys are all about feeling the drive, but yet they themselves didn't appear that good in driving. In one of the videos, one of the guys with the 911 wheel, he was holding the clutch and brake pedal down for what seemed to be days on end which showed me that their inputs sucked; you could just tell from how shaky the foot movements were (hesitation and such).

The guys at ISR play ever single sim under the sun. Your opinion hold little weight to theirs.

Yeah, they are professionals and probably know more than me but that doesn't mean I'm just spitting bullshit. This whole Forza 3 having superior physics? I still haven't seen anything that shows that yet. The videos I have seen definitely says otherwise.

Take a look at my posts in this very thread. I'm only correcting people with facts here. I'm not going out of my way to prove any point about Forza but when someone says something wrong I point them in the right direction.

My bad then. Sorry. I've always seen you as a cool guy just that you come off a bit on the Forza side.

Yeah now you are going into the "batshit insane" category I was talking about earlier...

I blame this thread. I cry reading it. :lol

 

[eso76]

Pretty sure that's a replay shot as you can see a vignette around the screen. Or it could be an offscreen photo...which is it?

He is right about the LOD stuff. Prologue has some very noticable LOD changes while racing and the replay models are good step above the in-game models.

What you should marvel at is how you have 16 cars on a track all with their own independent physics calculations. I think that is the biggest bottleneck here.

tbh, it shouldn't matter much if it's replay or not, since replays run at 60fps and are the same as ingame when switching to ingame views. Either way PD engine has a very good lod management, that's for sure


As for physics calculations on 16 cars...after seeing that gif of those 2 cars crashing into the subaru and immediately turning, quite literally, on a dime, in the right direction to go on racing like there were strings pulling them, made me question them...seemed like AI cars were not subject to any of the physics, almost.

 

[KHarvey16]

Your fucking pointless. It's still another opinion. I'm asking, can you prove it? You still haven't answered. Prove it that Forza has the definitive physics system.

I never said I could prove it was the definitive anything, I said your reaction to people saying FM2 had better physics betrayed your lack of knowledge about the general consensus among knowledgeable users.

Got any other straw men you'd like to throw on your considerable pile?

 

[Ultimo hombre]

Umm.. is the left shot actually in-game?

Spoiler

OH GAWD PLEASE DUN BAN ME

No. It's a pre render using the engine.

 

[Bobo]

In game music is necessary for me to race, otherwise it just feels boring as hell.

 

[SeaOfMadness]

Prove it that Forza has the definitive physics system.

Prove that GT has better physics. you can't. When it comes down to it, it's a bit subjective.

Of course the only way to really be able to "declare a winner" is to have several independant (i.e. unbiased) game and race car experts try both and give their opinions. and possibly take a poll of the gaming community at large as to their preference

but in the end, even that probably wouldn't "prove" anything

so i say, let's just give up on this front since neither side is going to "win"

 

[hauton]

lol @ the people who say Top Gear have a Gran Turismo bias.

Did you guys miss the episode (not the tiny feature on their website, a full-length feature on one of their episodes) where Jeremy went in an NSX around Laguna Seca in Gran Turismo and real life, then proceeded to bash Gran Turismo for missing an entire corner, simulating zero performance degradation and being generally a piss-poor method of learning a track, or indeed how to race a car?

 

[Iknos]

Aren't they just saying that the camera doesn't shake, thus giving the player a very smooth feeling unlike driving a real car?

"They" meaning that freelance writer. I think actual impressions from the experienced guys at Top Gear would have been much more valuable. You can say what you want about their driving skill but they drive more cars in a week than I would in a year.

My first impression is that it had to do with the force feedback. IIRC PD has a dedicated person and all he does is make sure the wheel's FFB system is realistic. There is a jump from GT4 to Prologue in the FFB feel and IMO this feel helps make your racing better.

We don't know if T10 has a similar guy. I felt the FFB implementation in FM2 was decent but not as good as even GT4 where IIRC you started to feel the weight of the car shifting.

Because when he talks about all going well and things "feeling like" you are on a magic carpet that's what I assume. There probably isn't a lot of resistance in the wheel when you car is balanced pretty well.

We'll have to see tonight.

 

[Yoritomo]

I'd just like to take a time out here and point out that a person can't be 'bias'.



If this thread can get more people to start using these words properly, it will have been a great success.

Bias definitely looks more cartoony, and the the environments look exaggerated...and wonderful.

I still think predilection takes the crown. I like the overall style of the word over bias, historically. It just exudes class. It's cool that you can paint stuff on your bias and all, but eh.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

GT5 has loooong ways to come since gamescom demo before that statement is true.

GT5P was already nice enough for me and that's been like a year since release. GT always does their presentation/tech right for the most part.

 

[-viper-]

Just like The Stig.

 

[SeaOfMadness]

"They" meaning that freelance writer. I think actual impressions from the experienced guys at Top Gear would have been much more valuable. You can say what you want about their driving skill but they drive more cars in a week than I would in a year.

My first impression is that it had to do with the force feedback. IIRC PD has a dedicated person and all he does is make sure the wheel's FFB system is realistic. There is a jump from GT4 to Prologue in the FFB feel and IMO this feel helps make your racing better.

We don't know if T10 has a similar guy. I felt the FFB implementation in FM2 was decent but not as good as even GT4 where IIRC you started to feel the weight of the car shifting.

Because when he talks about all going well and things "feeling like" you are on a magic carpet that's what I assume. There probably isn't a lot of resistance in the wheel when you car is balanced pretty well.

We'll have to see tonight.

yes, i'm interested to hear your opinion. i'm not the best driver so I wouldn't even know what to look for. do you have a wheel? if so, which one?

 

[Redbeard]

turn 10 chose to stick with 8 to make sure they all look good.

these look good to you?

bear in mind the first 2 are turn 10 bullshots - they still look worse than in-game gt5p (a 2 year old demo)

 

[Yoritomo]

Just like The Stig.

I know Morse code, understand italian, and listen to prog rock due to the Stig.

 

[TheSeks]

http://xs433.xs.to/xs433/08486/untitled-5_copy554.gif

GT5 confirmed to have pre-order bonus at Gamestop exclusive Stig.

Did you guys miss the episode (not the tiny feature on their website, a full-length feature on one of their episodes) where Jeremy went in an NSX around Laguna Seca in Gran Turismo and real life, then proceeded to bash Gran Turismo for missing an entire corner, simulating zero performance degradation and being generally a piss-poor method of learning a track, or indeed how to race a car?

They basically said it was a decent simulation, but it wasn't exactly the same as driving a car. There was some liberties/not exactly what happens in a car going on.

Which is correct, no "car sim" out there is going to match an actual car pound-for-pound in real-life. I don't think that's going to happen for a LONG WHILE (about 20-30 years), because the physics system/car tire pressure system/car tire temperature system/etc. etc. etc. all are going to be complex messes and not going to be an accurate "simulation."

Some of the Top Gear haters seem to hate it for the track not coming to Forza Motorsport (a shame, but maybe it'll happen after a period of time... maybe 2-3 years down the line?), and/or other reasons (some good, some bad). I don't think anyone is discrediting Top Gear for that episode (which aired new on BBC America this past Monday).