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Forza 3 vs Gran Turismo 5 Comparison Thread of John, Chapter 11, Verse 35
- Thread starter bishoptl
- Start date
You'll make many friends in this thread with statements like that... lolbelvedere said:
I don't think any side is winning this "war". Or rather, we're both winning. We have two great console racing sims to play and if the competion means we get even better games in the future all is good.
sleeping_dragon
Banned
flyinpiranha said:
why dont you go play for yourself and turn off the HUD and you will know whether it look like that gif or not, oh wait i guess you either dont have gt5 or u havent download the track and are trying to downplay it.
GT5 is still king when it comes to graphics compared to Forza 4. Sorry but that's the fact. Go ahead and post those standards cars and trial mountain pics, no game is graphically perfect on a 5 years old hardware unless the developer is Naughty Dog.
flyinpiranha
Member
Angst said:
The object of war is not to die for your [vidya gamez] but to make the other bastard die for his.
If anything this thread makes me regret selling GT5 a month ago. I'd love to race around Spa as it's all the Forza thread talked about for weeks and my interest is piqued.
sleeping_dragon said:
flyinpiranha said:
I haven't played Spa and I'm not downplaying it. I know what the game looks like after hours upon hours of playing on a Fanatec setup. But yes, I'm just trying to "downplay GT5"
belvedere said:
This is the music I imagine when in this thread...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAcnDevkTnc
The Magic Roundabout. It just goes round and round and round...
60 fps is where the difference becomes somewhat inconsequential, in fact. 120 fps is nice on a 120 Hz display, but I don't feel it makes a significant difference. 60 fps is the perfect framerate for games at this time.Metalmurphy said:
Still, being unable to tell the difference between a CRT and a shitty LCD? That's truly night and day to me.
gutterboy44
Member
Great post Amar. The points you hit on about driving "normal" cars on the comfort and sport compounds can't be said enough. Still the best there is for pure feel not just pedantic accuracy.
iRacing melts my face off for proper ultra detailed racing simulation (if only I could still afford the subscription and was better at tuning) But the more practical game for me still comes back to GT. I was really impressed with what Forza 3 brought to the genre and I was honestly hoping Kaz/PD was going to steal a few of their ideas. I have only had a limited amount of seat time with Forza 4 but I made sure to drive cars I have a ton of experience with in GT5 on the exact same tracks to get an decent comparison. The feel just isn't quite there yet in Forza. All my handling complaints from 3 exist in 4. But lordy, that sound. It may be a bit "enhanced" but it is fantastic and shows how much PD needs to step it up in that department.
It is obviously all about preference, which is exactly why things like aliasing, etc don't mean shit to me. I played GPL in the original shit texture pack in a 1024x768 window for four hours a few months ago and it was as lovely as ever. I want a driving experience when I hook up my wheel, not a pixel counting exercise. The sensation that comes through my wheel will trump any immersion or lack there of via 720p v 1080p, 30fp, 55fps, 60fps, Ugly F40's, standard models, silly AI, livery editor, shitty paint system. etc. I enjoy those things in terms of a game and I hope both GT and Forza add more and more and perfect them. But I don't buy these games for that, I want to drive a car and feel it. Right now, on consoles, GT5 and the GT franchise still holds that title. Both Forza and GT have a lot to learn from each other and a ton of room for improvement.
iRacing melts my face off for proper ultra detailed racing simulation (if only I could still afford the subscription and was better at tuning) But the more practical game for me still comes back to GT. I was really impressed with what Forza 3 brought to the genre and I was honestly hoping Kaz/PD was going to steal a few of their ideas. I have only had a limited amount of seat time with Forza 4 but I made sure to drive cars I have a ton of experience with in GT5 on the exact same tracks to get an decent comparison. The feel just isn't quite there yet in Forza. All my handling complaints from 3 exist in 4. But lordy, that sound. It may be a bit "enhanced" but it is fantastic and shows how much PD needs to step it up in that department.
It is obviously all about preference, which is exactly why things like aliasing, etc don't mean shit to me. I played GPL in the original shit texture pack in a 1024x768 window for four hours a few months ago and it was as lovely as ever. I want a driving experience when I hook up my wheel, not a pixel counting exercise. The sensation that comes through my wheel will trump any immersion or lack there of via 720p v 1080p, 30fp, 55fps, 60fps, Ugly F40's, standard models, silly AI, livery editor, shitty paint system. etc. I enjoy those things in terms of a game and I hope both GT and Forza add more and more and perfect them. But I don't buy these games for that, I want to drive a car and feel it. Right now, on consoles, GT5 and the GT franchise still holds that title. Both Forza and GT have a lot to learn from each other and a ton of room for improvement.
tusken77 said:
Thank you for giving me a nice credit for the said, but please don't do it anymore.
I didn't wrote that down in order to bash over FM or give additional fuel to this particular discussion. My sole intention was to try to elaborate to the guy I quoted in that post about his claims regarding lack of real-life expertise on some things.
Now, when I am confronted with accusations of being the troll or someone who is exposed as disqcuized warmonger here, in other threads or even on other sites, I really feel how any further discussion about this matter - as myself is concerned - is becoming pointless. Even more when I'm confronted by the fact how that kind of perception obviously influenced someone decision to grant me access to review-materials.
I apologize if anyone found any of my opinion as trolling, not only in this thread but in all others too. It is the etiquette that I can't really accept by no mean, and by this post I officially retire from posting here.
sleeping_dragon said:
I don't give a shit about which game wins, I enjoy and love both. But seriously, the repeating textures on trial mountain and laguna seca are just pathetic, and something that could have been fixed in probably a day. They look very very bad. You can't blame that on hardware.
Metalmurphy
Member
dark10x said:
As far as framerate goes? Nope, unless I have fraps enabled I can't tell if its 50-60 or 120. I only tend to notice it when it starts reaching low 40s, That's when I start disabling stuff in the graphics options.
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
shinnn said:
It's one thing to disrespect us but disrespecting Arma is crossing the line son, his opinion has more weight than anything you will ever say.
EDIT: If you haven't figured, it's a joke
plagiarize
Banned
seriously, Dark, this thread is a lost cause for people like us. they don't care about stuff like that, they just care about defending their racing game of choice. whatever flaws it has won't matter, and whatever flaws the other has will matter massively.dark10x said:
reviews will be more important than sales figures if their game does better in that area, and irrelevant if their game sells better.
technical discussion is crushing for people here, because it cuts out opinion, be it discussion of framerate or poly counts or dynamic lighting vs baked, and so on.
i think we'd both save some sanity if we just back away and take it as given that we care about things they don't.
lowut.amar212 said:I am not happy, really
I feel disappointed because of the things I find important for the genre, not for the game in general. I would like to present you my post history on GTP from times of Forza 2/3 in order to justify my positive stances regarding Forza series. I find all Forza games great games and I love Forza games - but I also reserve my personal and subjective right to vocal my opinion on things I do not like genre-related.
I am not happy because the wheel support is not as it should be. I am not happy because we were told how there will be no assists. I am not happy because driving with the controller still allows much faster performance than with steering devices. I am not happy because non-ABS braking is still being dumbed-down from almost perfect as it was in FM2. I am not happy because collisions are still being dumbed-down from almost perfect as they were in FM2. I am not happy because actual driving model is not slowing-down in order to achieve actual tire-threshold but is speeding-up in order to make game more attractive. Etc.
I have respect for the T10 and Forza series and goal regarding establishing a respectful brand in the simulation genre they want to achieve. But I am also personally convinced how they're not 100% committed to take everything is necessary to achieve that goal. I see same mistakes repeated from FM3, made in roder to satisfy mainstream public. Once it could be mistake, but second time is deliberate.
I am not trolling and I never trolled anything. I always stand by everything I said because I never express any of my subjective and personal opinions without backing-it-up with some real experience. If I am vocal regarding current state of Forza 4 assists both here and on GTP, that is not trolling, that is stating the obvious. What intrigues me is the lack of real interest on a wider-scale to make those issues more vocal and gather a wider community-support in order to make them right.
All I know is how it came later than it should have.
Problems with brakes in Forza. wow. What about GT5? All cars with the same brake balance? GT5P non-abs thing.. WTF? How PD managed to do that? Can't upgrade brakes. WTF?
Forza feels good with a controller.. GT5 feels shit. Forza is wrong!
Faster is wrong. Good sense of speed is wrong! screw that. Give me GT5 boring speed sensation.
Yeah, Forza collisions are really a big problem. Come on.
"gather a wider community-support in order to make them right"
You want Forza community-support posting on neogaf and gtplanet vs threads? oh right.
Ploid 3.0
Member
zoukka said:
I started playing games on PC since June this year. There are a few games that just feels choppy when they aren't locked (Need For Speed Hot Pursuit, Test Drive Unlimited 2) and some games just deal with not being locked at 60 very well and looks smooth still (Dirt 3). Some games are just destined to feel choppy even if it's locked at 60 (when everything is going well in Hot Pursuit). I guess it may be something going on that make some games feel smooth going between 40-60, like motion blur?
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
flyinpiranha said:
The same way people use this to justify everything?
Not everyone is hell-bent on the negatives, it does have a lot of negatives but that does not mean we can't post the positives. I was having an argument over at Gtplanet and the guy i was arguing with accused me of "carefully selecting" gif's of GT5 when those same gif's did not represent the game. I mean wtf, we know it has it's negatives and we sometimes posts those negatives but when we post positives it somehow is a bad thing?
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
saladine1 said:
3 levels is already too deep.
shinnn said:
You really are pathetic. Amar has been around for years and his car knowledge is invaluable. He may not know me but I know him and you should show respect even if you agree or not.
Also all the cry babies stating its his opinion when they miss the crucial points in his post.
FlyingTeacup
Member
SmokyDave said:
if this turns into all-out war, we're just the collateral 2d trees.
Infamous Chris
Banned
Ploid 3.0 said:
Nope. It pretty much consisted of:
"man, if Forza 3 is giving GT5 a run of it's money already, imagine Forza 4. That's the true comparison!"
"Forza 3 only reviewed higher because it came out first. Forza 2 is only rates high because it was the first sim on 360. When Forza 4 comes out it will rate lower than GT5 because GT5 is already out."
-Forza 4 Metacritic is just as high as it's predecessors-
"Reviews don't matter! Rabble rabble sales! Spec II! SPA!"
And here we are.
It's getting crazy up in here. Nice post from Amar, guy is a legend so I certainly value his opinion. There are some other hardcore Sim racing fans on GAF who admittedly mainly race on PC, but have said the same things about GT vs Forza, such as McLaren777. To most enthusiasts GT is definitely the more accurate and realistic driving and racing experience.
I think Forza is personally the more accessible one. It's a good in-between for people who want arcade to sim, but not something too much on the side of sim. Which again, is where GT is a good balance between people who want accessible sim, but not extreme level sim such as PC sims like iRacing which are even less easy for laymen to get in to than GT.
I do think, despite the long 6 year wait for the games release, GT is still leading the way in terms of technology and feature set in the sense that Forza is still playing catch up with respect to racing and handling physics, AI, graphics and lighting engine, vehicle diversity, weather, night racing etc. But Forza is leading the way in UI and community aspects, such as interface speed, game progression, livery editor, upgrade options etc.
.
I think Forza is personally the more accessible one. It's a good in-between for people who want arcade to sim, but not something too much on the side of sim. Which again, is where GT is a good balance between people who want accessible sim, but not extreme level sim such as PC sims like iRacing which are even less easy for laymen to get in to than GT.
I do think, despite the long 6 year wait for the games release, GT is still leading the way in terms of technology and feature set in the sense that Forza is still playing catch up with respect to racing and handling physics, AI, graphics and lighting engine, vehicle diversity, weather, night racing etc. But Forza is leading the way in UI and community aspects, such as interface speed, game progression, livery editor, upgrade options etc.
.
Infamous Chris
Banned
saladine1 said:
Haha seriously? Shame on you.
@krioto: unbaised? In THIS thread? Blasphemy.
That's not even remotely true.Dead Man said:
You do realize that 99% of games released on the NES, SNES, and Genesis all ran at 60 fps, right? Arcade games and console games were known for pushing graphics are fast framerates, which is what separated them from computers of that era. When 3D became popular, however, this was lost for a while as consoles really could not deliver high end 3D visuals at a fast framerate. When games that DID deliver came along, however, the results were always impressive. I dealt with it, but it was hard playing racing games on my PC at 30 fps when the arcades were rocking Daytona USA and SCUD Race at 60 fps with unparalleled visual quality. It was the fast framerate that really sold those games.
60 fps has always been the desired framerate and 60 Hz has been the common refresh rate of displays since the beginning. With very few displays actually accepting 120 Hz, I doubt we'll see 120 fps become common (especially when the difference between 60 and 120 is more subtle). The difference between 30 and 60 has ALWAYS been significant.
This gen has actually been a huge step back for consoles in that regard. The PS2 routinely delivered impressive AAA games at 60 fps. A framerate that high has, unfortunately, become somewhat uncommon with recent consoles. Specifically looking at GT5, it's disappointing that we came from a near perfect 60 fps with GT3 and GT4 to a somewhat less stable 60 with GT5. The visual upgrades were expected with a new generation, but the performance hit was not.
its fair to say eurogamer holds the same views too, in respect of handling.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-10-21-reassessing-gran-turismo-5-article
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-10-21-reassessing-gran-turismo-5-article
H_Prestige
Banned
Unless you're playing on some shit TV, every game in motion looks much more like a gif than some direct screen grab.mxgt said:
Sporran said:
Pretty much mirrors the views from my post above. But yea, if you want handling or driving accuracy and vehicle or racing diversity, go GT, if you want something more accessible and community orientated, go Forza.
I am glad to see at least one journalist or gaming outlet finally recognise this though (something Sim orientated outlets already agreed upon). A few of the others claimed Forza 4 as the most realistic yet, which I found quite humorous. Some of the reviews went a little too far with the praise, but this also happened with F3 so I am not surprised.
The Stealth Fox
Junior Member
shinnn said:
what is this... some sort of crap joke?