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Forza 3 vs Gran Turismo 5 Comparison Thread of John, Chapter 11, Verse 35

D

Dibbz

Member
Snubbers said:
Despite the awesome texture work PD do, this shot seems to rather negate it all, for a 'wet' track it looks rather sterile,
Click to expand...
This is the problem with most people in here. You seem to think everything in real life has to look like a Micheal Bay movie. Real life does look boring sorry. Not enough lens flare and bloom for you? It's like I'm talking to a child.

Snubbers said:
and obviously you forgot to resize it even smaller to hide the stairway to heaven low-res water cloud effect around the car..

;)
Click to expand...
I didn't fucking resize the image. My flickr account does not let me post original resolution shots so the highest I could get was that. I'm not trying to hide anything, so stop acting like a smartass.
 
S

Snubbers

Member
gogogow said:
Yeah, did you read my question? Does Forza 4 have wet tracks (serious question)?
Click to expand...

Are you serious?

If so, yes it does..

FhqeE.jpg


Now, about that consistency aspect.. ?

Dibbz said:
I didn't fucking resize the image. My flickr account does not let me post original resolution shots so the highest I could get was that. I'm not trying to hide anything, so stop acting like a smartass.
Click to expand...
Dude, it was a joke.. Don't worry, when it comes to smart-assery, you sir, are a god.. :)


yes, of course I'm just kidding with all this, just in case someone is taking this way too seriously... :)
 
G

gogogow

Member
Snubbers said:
Are you serious?
Click to expand...
Yes, I was, even GT3 had wet tracks, so i'm dissapointed to learn that the 4th installment didn't have it. I think by adding wet tracks the game couldn't maintain 60fps when water constantly kicks up. Looking at some of the Forza 4 videos the game really doesn't have much dust/smoke effects (correct me if i'm wrong). GT5 has loads of dust/smoke/water effects and it causes frame drops. PD should add a smoke/dust meter, so that people can tone it down.
 
S

Snubbers

Member
gogogow said:
Yes, I was, even GT3 had wet tracks, so i'm dissapointed to learn that the 4th installment didn't have it. I think by adding wet tracks the game couldn't maintain 60fps when water constantly kicks up. Looking at some of the Forza 4 videos the game really doesn't have much dust/smoke effects (correct me if i'm wrong). GT5 has loads of dust/smoke/water effects and it causes frame drops. PD should add a smoke/dust meter, so that people can tone it down.
Click to expand...

Yeah, FM4 dials down the smoke most of the time, you can get the odd smokefest (Not on GT5 levels though), and it has lots of small effects (like GT5), even flames out of the exhausts, but you can see they've had to compromise to keep the framerate solid..

I expect FM5 on new hardware should easily allow T10 to add night/weather etc, so if they don't it'll be interesting to see what excuses they have... On a 2 year dev cycle, you are slightly restricted in not being able to take your engine too far apart to get new stuff in..
 
W

Wazzim

Banned
Dibbz said:
What don't you get? I posted a direct comparison to your Forza screenshot to show you how bad the Textures are in Forza yet you're still in denial. It's not even down to preferences. GT5's textures are more accurate. That is fact.

The spec map alone shows how little detail is put into Forza. How you can't see that is beyond me. It's right there in your own god damn screenshot.
Click to expand...

Sorry but Forza's textures are just shit on Suzuka.
Click to expand...
Is what I responded to, they are not shit. Not as good, I'd agree with that but it's ridiculous to call them shit.
Besides, why would I be in denial. It isn't like I am forced to play one of the two like you.
 
G

gogogow

Member
Snubbers said:
Yeah, FM4 dials down the smoke most of the time, you can get the odd smokefest (Not on GT5 levels though), and it has lots of small effects (like GT5), even flames out of the exhausts, but you can see they've had to compromise to keep the framerate solid..

I except FM5 on new hardware should easily allow T10 to add night/weather etc, so if they don't it'll be interesting to see what excuses they have... On a 2 year dev cycle, you are slightly restricted in not being able to take your engine too far apart to get new stuff in..
Click to expand...
Ah, I see. Well, T10 obviously had different priorities than PD. No matter what the cost they wanted 60fps. And PD, though I doubt they are happy with framedrops, but they didn't wanted to dial back the particle effects and have to live with the variable framerate.

Definitely, T10 will match whatever GT5 has on new Xbox hardware. However, I do not agree with the 2 year dev cycle part, because it's not their first Forza game on the 360, but their third. They have and had plenty of time and experience working with the 360 HW and to upgrade and to tweak their engine. And I read T10 has a lot of employees and do a lot of outsourcing. Look at Gears and Uncharted. Each and every iteration had huge improvements graphically. Gears 3/Uncharted 3 looks amazing and added a ton of effects.
 
D

drugstore_cowboy

Member
gogogow said:
Ah, I see. Well, T10 obviously had different priorities than PD. No matter what the cost they wanted 60fps. And PD, though I doubt they are happy with framedrops, but they didn't wanted to dial back the particle effects and have to live with the variable framerate.
Click to expand...

Well they did dial them back in a way by rendering them at a low resolution.
 
P

Polyphony

Member
Snubbers said:
FhqeE.jpg
Click to expand...

LOL, nice one ;).

I find that F4 does have some nicely detailed textures. To say one looks more realistic than the other is hard to tell anyway when you zoom by at high speeds (and can only be determined by an objective comparison, not personal preference). Both games also have their own reflection/specular map problems.

In GT5, the dynamic weather tracks do not become reflective when it starts to pour, but the rest of the effects are there (individual rain drops hitting windshield/road, splash). The tracks that are wet only (SSR7) have the proper reflections from the get go.

In F4, the road's specular map can lead to overblown glare and cause an overly smooth track. Going back to Wazzim's screenshot last page, you can see how there are inconsistencies in this regard.
 
H

higherARC05

Banned
Dibbz said:
GT5 Suzuka texture work

Dry
6286146980_e476682820_b.jpg


Wet
6286146956_6357ef0773_b.jpg


Dry
6286146954_5c06d25f64_b.jpg


Wet
6286146960_bc691dde74_b.jpg


Sorry but Forza's textures are just shit on Suzuka.
Click to expand...

Lol with the perfect smooth red and white checkered tiles on gt5. Forza 4's is so realistic with it's imperfection details.
 
S

Snubbers

Member
Polyphony said:
LOL, nice one ;).

I find that F4 does have some nicely detailed textures. To say one looks more realistic than the other is hard to tell anyway when you zoom by at high speeds (and can only be determined by an objective comparison, not personal preference). Both games also have their own reflection/specular map problems.

In GT5, the dynamic weather tracks do not become reflective when it starts to pour, but the rest of the effects are there (individual rain drops hitting windshield/road, splash). The tracks that are wet only (SSR7) have the proper reflections from the get go.

In F4, the road's specular map can lead to overblown glare and cause an overly smooth track. Going back to Wazzim's screenshot last page, you can see how there are inconsistencies in this regard.
Click to expand...

I think PD are good at knowing where to put their texture work..

T10 can do some quality textures, here's inside the tunnel in the Bernese Alps (Taken from the main FM4 thread)
25891.jpg


Still, there is no way T10 would ever put too much time/resource into nailing every texture etc, they will always be focussing on other core aspects, as we know..
 
H

higherARC05

Banned
Snubbers said:
I think PD are good at knowing where to put their texture work..

T10 can do some quality textures, here's inside the tunnel in the Bernese Alps (Taken from the main FM4 thread)
25891.jpg


Still, there is no way T10 would ever put too much time/resource into nailing every texture etc, they will always be focussing on other core aspects, as we know..
Click to expand...

POMs mmmmm delicisious :p
 
B

benzy

Member
I don't really like GT5's wet road texture for daytime tracks. Doesn't even look wet, it's just a darker shade of gray.

higherARC05 said:
Lol with the perfect smooth red and white checkered tiles on gt5. Forza 4's is so realistic with it's imperfection details.
Click to expand...

F4 has flat rumble strips too

6241160629_7208bd8a85_b.jpg
 
M

Metalmurphy

Member
benzy said:
I don't really like GT5's wet road texture for daytime tracks. Doesn't even look wet, it's just a darker shade of gray.
Click to expand...

Because of the dynamic weather the dry and wet road textures are exactly the same. It's just lighting tricks.


That's why SSR in the rain looks much better.
 
P

pixelbox

Member
Metalmurphy said:
TAA is on both 1080p and 720p mode. Choosing flicker reduction in the options will disable it.
Click to expand...
Thats fuckin overkill. Im going to go ahead and disable it to stablize the framerate farther.
 
M

mentalfloss

Banned
As someone who loves Forza 3 (I haven't bought F4 yet), I have to say, GT5 is the prettier game. I can't speak for gameplay, but it's clear that GT5's beauty comes from the time the developer took to craft these environments and car models.

It's not even a matter of whether the PS3 or 360 is more powerful. There is no doubt in my mind, that that the 360 is more powerful hardware than PS3. This is a testament to extensive software development, and the advantages one can bring despite programming on inferior hardware.
 
P

pixelbox

Member
mentalfloss said:
As someone who loves Forza 3 (I haven't bought F4 yet), I have to say, GT5 is the prettier game. I can't speak for gameplay, but it's clear that GT5's beauty comes from the time the developer took to craft these environments and car models.

It's not even a matter of whether the PS3 or 360 is more powerful. There is no doubt in my mind, that that the 360 is more powerful hardware than PS3. This is a testament to extensive software development, and the advantages one can bring despite programming on inferior hardware.
Click to expand...
Oh dear...So i guess those 4 extra processors means shit then. More is less.
 
A

Angst

Member
mentalfloss said:
As someone who loves Forza 3 (I haven't bought F4 yet), I have to say, GT5 is the prettier game. I can't speak for gameplay, but it's clear that GT5's beauty comes from the time the developer took to craft these environments and car models.

It's not even a matter of whether the PS3 or 360 is more powerful. There is no doubt in my mind, that that the 360 is more powerful hardware than PS3. This is a testament to extensive software development, and the advantages one can bring despite programming on inferior hardware.
Click to expand...
I guess it's time for another Vs thread? :p
 
B

bobbytkc

ADD New Gen Gamer
mentalfloss said:
As someone who loves Forza 3 (I haven't bought F4 yet), I have to say, GT5 is the prettier game. I can't speak for gameplay, but it's clear that GT5's beauty comes from the time the developer took to craft these environments and car models.

It's not even a matter of whether the PS3 or 360 is more powerful. There is no doubt in my mind, that that the 360 is more powerful hardware than PS3. This is a testament to extensive software development, and the advantages one can bring despite programming on inferior hardware.
Click to expand...


lol. you're trying too hard.
 
K

krioto

Member
mentalfloss said:
It's not even a matter of whether the PS3 or 360 is more powerful. There is no doubt in my mind, that that the 360 is more powerful hardware than PS3. This is a testament to extensive software development, and the advantages one can bring despite programming on inferior hardware.
Click to expand...

this thread keeps on delivering - what a load of tosh
 
eso76

eso76

Member
Metalmurphy said:
Because of the dynamic weather the dry and wet road textures are exactly the same. It's just lighting tricks.


That's why SSR in the rain looks much better.
Click to expand...

well, tbh it looks better because that stage was made much more simple to accomodate reflections of cars and trackside elements on the road.
 
K

KKRT00

Member
eso76 said:
well, tbh it looks better because that stage was made much more simple to accomodate reflections of cars and trackside elements on the road.
Click to expand...
Actually reflections that they are using are quite cheap [You had similar in GoW 1 already], but they are not fully dynamic, so cant do them on dynamic weather conditions, thats why only SSR 7, Toscana Wet and photo travel locations have them.
 
P

pseudocaesar

Member
mentalfloss said:
As someone who loves Forza 3 (I haven't bought F4 yet), I have to say, GT5 is the prettier game. I can't speak for gameplay, but it's clear that GT5's beauty comes from the time the developer took to craft these environments and car models.

It's not even a matter of whether the PS3 or 360 is more powerful. There is no doubt in my mind, that that the 360 is more powerful hardware than PS3. This is a testament to extensive software development, and the advantages one can bring despite programming on inferior hardware.
Click to expand...
LOLShaq.gif


mentalfloss said:
It's not even a matter of whether the PS3 or 360 is more powerful. There is no doubt in my mind, that that the 360 is more powerful hardware than PS3. .
Click to expand...

mj-laughing.gif
 
R

Risk Breaker

Member
Direct feed gameplay you say? Oh sure.

Stillmatic said:
Don't know if these belong in here, but thought i'd throw in some gameplay screens to mix things up a bit. Might do some more if i get some spare time and there's interest. :)


(click to enlarge)







Click to expand...


Stillmatic said:
Those Tokyo shots are something else!


Some DLC gameplay love:

(click to enlarge)

Kart Space

Click to expand...


Stillmatic said:
All done:





Feel free to drop some more requests.
Click to expand...
 
eso76

eso76

Member
KKRT00 said:
Actually reflections that they are using are quite cheap [You had similar in GoW 1 already], but they are not fully dynamic, so cant do them on dynamic weather conditions, thats why only SSR 7, Toscana Wet and photo travel locations have them.
Click to expand...

those tracks were made with wet road in mind, and they kept detail low.
More complex stages are pushing hardware to its limits in dry conditions already, adding reflections, however cheap, would have killed the framerate. Though they should at least have headlights reflecting on wet road in that case, it looks so wrong without.

Which leads to the same old conclusion.
GT5 vs FM4, who wins ?
PGR4
 
K

KKRT00

Member
eso76 said:
those tracks were made with wet road in mind, and they kept detail low.
More complex stages are pushing hardware to its limits in dry conditions already, adding reflections, however cheap, would have killed the framerate. Though they should at least have headlights reflecting on wet road in that case, it looks so wrong without.

Which leads to the same old conclusion.
GT5 vs FM4, who wins ?
PGR4
Click to expand...
PGR 4 has prebaked reflections also, the same GT 5 does.

And no, it wouldnt kill performance in GT 5 on more advanced tracks.
GT 3 and 4 already had them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kPpTykN6lk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6UU__lu65I

Its just matter of having dynamic wet conditions, not track geometry.
 
eso76

eso76

Member
KKRT00 said:
PGR 4 has prebaked reflections also, the same GT 5 does.

And no, it wouldnt kill performance in GT 5 on more advanced tracks.
GT 3 and 4 already had them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kPpTykN6lk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6UU__lu65I

Its just matter of having dynamic wet conditions, not track geometry.
Click to expand...

also on selected tracks, and iirc with a limited number of cars on the track.

Of course reflections are prebaked, and there's no reason why they shouldn't be.
All it takes is placing a vertically flipped clone of trackside elements 'below' the road surface, the only thing that needs to be dynamic is road 'transparency' to make reflections more / less apparent or disappear completely.
PGR4 does that, in some cases (with the right lighting) you can see a hint of reflection is there on dry roads too, which is absolutely spot on.

(damn, i forgot tsukuba wet looked so convincing in gt4)
 
C

Caddle

Member
Keep posting all those pic people, don't mean shit really. If it's not locked 60fps we don't consider it a sim, keeps playing in my head all the time.
 
Y

Yoritomo

Member
Wait wat, I was under the impression that the 360 had a better GPU, less constraints on memory and an easier to code for CPU that was better suited to traditional multi-threaded coding therefore better for gaming in general?
 
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