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[jaypah]

My post was a reference to Greenawalt's PR, not the actual slogan (The definitive driving game) itself. During E3, the tone of his PR was antagonistic. I was not claiming that all of the flaming coming from the GT thread was attributable to one PR slogan, a large part of it was due to the blatant smack talk coming from Greenawalt.

i'm not a fucking psychic :lol ! that was your actual post verbatim, surely you can see why a person would think you were attributing the hate to the definitive comment. you even put the word definitive back to back 3 times.....what else was i suppose to expect? and then to accuse me of being a fanboy? you went all knee-jerk defensive before even trying to understand what i was saying.

 

[hie]

You don't have to wait.



Clarkson on GT4

"Will be.." isn't cutting it yet for me. "Will be.." much better than GT then?

and I played the hell out of every GT. Especially 4. F2 is a better sim in every way from 4...to me, I suppose

 

[LordPhoque]

Blah, this thread is getting boring. It's just the same 3-4 Sony shill's repeating the same shit over and over for the last few pages.

Pretty much this, I have no interest in console wars, but I must admit that GT fans are really "harsh" towards FM3. BTW, is this thread going to stay open until both games releases ?

 

[AndyD]

ugh I really hope this thread was somekind of elaborate scheme, an ingenious trap on bish's part where he will retroactively ban everybody who trolled in this topic

*please lord let it happen*

I think four things will result from this thread:
1. Bish will have a list of trolls to watch out for elsewhere.
2. Fanboys will be able to use quotes from here to prove others are fanboys in future threads.
3. Che will have lost most credibility around these parts, thanks to both his old quotes and lack of new ones. T10 may want to look for another PR community manager.
4. I will probably die of laughter from the various gifs, jokes and memes, such as the grinding one a few posts up which made me spit my drink all over the floor.

 

[xenorevlis]

For the new page:

I'd rather grind it :lol

Greatness in a sea of madness!

 

[SappYoda]

Great idea doing this thread. I think we should do this more often.

 

[KHarvey16]

You don't have to wait.



Clarkson on GT4

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/jeremy_clarkson/article552096.ece



Of course GT5 will be even better thanks to the power of CELL.

I don't know why you're even allowed to continue posting this kind of stuff. You've been told countless times that the article written on the TG site was done by a freelancer with no experience with games or racing.

 

[MrPliskin]

From someone who has extensive experience in racing and driving high-po vehicles, Forza 3's driving model feels better than GTs.

Of course that won't be enough to convince the armchair racers out there, but I digress.

:lol

They always come out when a new sim racer hits.

Please describe to us what it is that feels "better". Why not tell us what "high po" vehicles you've driven, taken to the limit, lost traction, regained traction, etc, with. Please?

 

[Stinkles]

Pretty much this, I have no interest in console wars, but I must admit that GT fans are really "harsh" towards FM3. BTW, is this thread going to stay open until both games releases ?

I like this thread, but I think that yes, objectively Forza fans are enjoying their game and looking forward to it - and making favorable comparisons with GT's legacy. And GT fans are on the attack. You'd have to be a MORON to go off on Gran Turismo with any seriousness, it's a ground-breaking series worthy of mad respect. But the bitterness is pretty one-sided.

Not to say there aren't lots of pro-Forza trolls, but the weight on the other side is oppressive. And the wait. lol.

 

[M_A_C]

So after playing the Forza 3 demo and reading this thread, I decided to play some Prologue again after not touching it for... a year maybe. I'm again blown away by the graphics, style, and gameplay. I'm seriously considering canceling my Forza preorder and just playing Prologue some more because it could hold me over until GT5, and I forgot all about how awesome it is.

 

[Stinkles]

:lol

They always come out when a new sim racer hits.

Please describe to us what it is that feels "better". Why not tell us what "high po" vehicles you've driven, taken to the limit, lost traction, regained traction, etc, with. Please?

I know you weren't addressing me but:

I've driven rally, Formula Ford, Formula First, CART, and lots of exotics, including a Diablo VT - and I have done everything you describe in all of those (and deliberately rolled Honda Pilot grass/dirt racers, which is the most enjoyable driving experience ever). I don't know which "feels" better because neither finished game is out yet. I will enjoy both, but frankly I find the Ridge Racer experience to be more "realistic" feeling because a lot of the stuff I do automatically in my head without thinking about it, is done in the more simplistic driving models.

GT and Forza are sims - and force you to think about things that you don't when you're actually driving. Which is why the three screen setup with wheel feels way, way, way more realistic, because it adds peripheral vision and literal analog controls.

The rest of it comes down to how it feels on a stick and how fun the progress through the "campaign" is. I prefer one of these over the other because I am impatient and one of them has a less frustrating arc.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

So after playing the Forza 3 demo and reading this thread, I decided to play some Prologue again after not touching it for... a year maybe. I'm again blown away by the graphics, style, and gameplay. I'm seriously considering canceling my Forza preorder and just playing Prologue some more because it could hold me over until GT5, and I forgot all about how awesome it is.

Hmmm, this makes me think... does anyone have a youtube video of Forza 3's front end menu system?

 

[ShapeGSX]

I doubt you have more experience than Top Gear and them calling Forza an "arcade racer" didn't convince armchair racers either.

This is the guy who tried the game and wrote that Top Gear impression:
http://www.jamesshovlin.com/

Yeah, he looks like he has a lot of racing experience.

 

[szaromir]

(...)

Nice post!

 

[Stinkles]

This is the guy who tried the game and wrote that Top Gear impression:
http://www.jamesshovlin.com/

Yeah, he looks like he has a lot of racing experience.

Too late, they've been rampaging that gif around the internets like Jeremy Clarkson said it.

 

[thaOwner]

You know M0dus I find your non bias well formed opinions disgusting. Good day sir!

Good post. Can't believe people aint talking about this.

 

[beast786]

This is the guy who tried the game and wrote that Top Gear impression:
http://www.jamesshovlin.com/

Yeah, he looks like he has a lot of racing experience.

So let me get this straight. He is a racing noob because his opinons are different than your. Intresting concept.

 

[LordPhoque]

So let me get this straight. He is a racing pro because his opinon is the same than me.

.

 

[beast786]

I like this thread, but I think that yes, objectively Forza fans are enjoying their game and looking forward to it - and making favorable comparisons with GT's legacy. And GT fans are on the attack. You'd have to be a MORON to go off on Gran Turismo with any seriousness, it's a ground-breaking series worthy of mad respect. But the bitterness is pretty one-sided.

Not to say there aren't lots of pro-Forza trolls, but the weight on the other side is oppressive. And the wait. lol.

Please i would like to know your classifications of posters.

Extreme Non Biased and Elite: I am assuming thats you
Trolls: I am assuming people who disagree with you
Racing Experts: I am assuming people who agree with you

Thanks for your psychological evaluation of the posters. You have good future.

 

[jaypah]

So let me get this straight. He is a racing noob because his opinons are different than your. Intresting concept.

probably more because that page doesn't say anything about automotive work. but maybe that's more recent stuff on that page and his automotive work was in the past?

Please i would like to know your classifications of posters.

Extreme Non Biased and Elite: I am assuming thats you
Trolls: I am assuming people who disagree with you
Racing Experts: I am assuming people who agree with you

Thanks for your psychological evaluation of the posters. You have good future.

you would have to be purposefully ignoring the thread entirely to not see that. seems most Forza fanatics have respect for GT and seem to play it, even if it's not their game of choice. i don't see many saying that Forza's cars look better either, they just don't like for their game to be called trash or ugly. GT fanatics don't seem to do the same. it's nobodys fault and it doesn't mean anything but most of the smearing/trolling/ post have been about Forza. understandably so, GT is the franchise to beat. it's obvious what's going on though. makes the thread pretty entertaining though, as they have been laying into Forza something vicious :lol you could tell they wanted to before but with the "troll-away" rules Bish set up......man, they have been delivering comedy gold.

 

[WTFing]

We released a generous helping of Forza Motorsport 3 screenshots and videos this week. If you haven't seen them yet, go check 'em out in our Media Gallery. There are some things you should know about these screenshots. First of all, at Turn 10, we don't bullshot -- which means everything you see here is real-time taken from in-game gameplay. The E3 batch was taken back in early May, and given how the development process works, the game is improving just about daily, so the bottomline is that these screenshots are from a work-in-progress. Naturally, the game will actually look better by the time it comes out later this fall. The reason why you might have mistaken these screenshots as faked, touched-up, or embellished art is because Forza 3 is an exceedingly gorgeous game.

There's really no bigger graphics junkie than myself at Turn 10 and I'm constantly surprised by just how insanely next generation the game looks from a visual standpoint. Not only have the cars themselves gotten much more detailed, our 100+ tracks in the game provide some truly inspired locales to fuel your car passion. Much of the leap in graphical fidelity with Forza 3 was made possible by our game engine developers, whom, in the early days (think summer of 2007) set out to rebuild a new renderer and content pipeline for Forza 3. So just like before, Forza 3 runs at a glassy smooth 60 frames-per-second, with our physics calculating underneath the hood at a much higher framerate. New shaders and tech puts the finishing touches on an already handsome Forza Motorsport 2. Likewise, with the gameplay video, everything was captured in-game with no faked CG whatsoever. At Turn 10, we don't do bullshots.

Thanks for sharing this gem!
"First of all, at Turn 10, we don't bullshot -- which means everything you see here is real-time taken from in-game gameplay."
"There's really no bigger graphics junkie than myself at Turn 10"
"Likewise, with the gameplay video, everything was captured in-game with no faked CG whatsoever. At Turn 10, we don't do bullshots." :lol
Now everyone know that even gt5p(2007) looks and play better than their xbox game(2009).
Shame on ms.

 

[beast786]

.

And that bothered you... didnt it.

 

[Cold-Steel]

People calling GT fans defensive should understand they have every right to be.

Look at the PR on both sides of the fence.

One completely ignores the other.
One keeps blasting the other.

Which fanbase would be more riled up? Probably the one getting blasted.

 

[Stinkles]

So let me get this straight. He is a racing noob because his opinons are different than your. Intresting concept.

I think people are rightly more concerned with the fact that "Top Gear" said it, when in fact, "Top Gear" simply published a slightly vague freelance article by a guy who writes children's TV scripts. Which was then leaped upon in gif form to dogpile Forza.

And by "concerned" I mean dismissive.

Top Gear is considered an excellent source of car-related entertainment on this forum.

 

[Barso]

One thing I noticed is that in cars like the Audi R8 when you are on the car selection screen and you are picking the colour, on GT5 the car seat leather also changes to match the car shell colour but in forza3 nothing.
A small detail but it does show the difference between the 2 teams.
There is no doubt that GT5 will be the better game and after seeing Che's screens that he boasted about and playing the game I must admit that this game has been such a disappointment.
It's as if Turn10 are trying to hard to fit to much in and failing.
I can't believe how terrible this game and the man I blame is Che.
He teased us with those screens of the cars and the interiors and they look nothing alike.
I tried the mini and when I got to the interior view I could not believe how awful it looked.You guys were meant to be great with the PGR team so what did you do with the interiors they had? It looks like you got their interiors and run them through the shite machine.
Shame on you Che, shame on you indeed.

 

[Stinkles]

Please i would like to know your classifications of posters.

Extreme Non Biased and Elite: I am assuming thats you
Trolls: I am assuming people who disagree with you
Racing Experts: I am assuming people who agree with you

Thanks for your psychological evaluation of the posters. You have good future.

Yes, I am an elegant, elite gentleman poster from a stratosphere you can never hope to inhabit. That cool mist you feel, is us peeing on you from Olympian heights.

You have good future.

 

[beast786]

Yes, I am an elegant, elite gentleman poster from a stratosphere you can never hope to inhabit. That cool mist you feel, is us peeing on you from Olympian heights.

I will send kratos after you.

 

[LordPhoque]

...

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Stinkles]

I will send kratos after you.

Chariots in GT5 confirmed.

 

[ShapeGSX]

So let me get this straight. He is a racing noob because his opinons are different than your. Intresting concept.

No, James Shovlin is not a "racing noob". In order to be a "racing noob," he would have had to sat in a car and actually driven it at the limit around a track. But he's a writer. A pretty good one, but not a guy I'd say had actual racing or track experience. Apparently you think differently? Tell me exactly why you think this freelance writer has amazing racing experience.

 

[WTFing]

I will send kratos after you.

Beware! He'll send Alan Wake after you! :lol

 

[Shining Sunshine]

Has it crossed anyone's mind that even if Clarkson didn't write it, I'm sure it's not a load of bs. Clarkson's words are in there. He just got someone else to write it.

I'm quite certain that more than half of the biographies in the world are not written by the person.

 

[Death Dealer]

Did Clarkson write that GT4 review or is that a ghost writer ?
If it's not him, the article is borderline fraud, because he asserts himself as a professional expert, claiming to have driven nearly all the cars in question like PD had claimed in making the game.

 

[Stinkles]

Did Clarkson write that GT4 review or is that a ghost writer ?
If it's not him, the article is borderline fraud, because he asserts himself as a professional expert, claiming to have driven nearly all the cars in question like PD had claimed in making the game.

Doesn't matter. Ghost writers often just type what they're told to and paraphrase it for clean writing. Which is valid, IMO. Like a fancy stenographer.

And Clarkson has done plenty of professional writing, no reason to suspect he didn't write it if it has his name on it.

 

[AFreak]

I've been loving this thread while on my ban. glad to be back and hope to join in on the stupid very soon.

 

[bj00rn_]

People calling GT fans defensive should understand they have every right to be.

Look at the PR on both sides of the fence.

One completely ignores the other.
One keeps blasting the other.

Which fanbase would be more riled up? Probably the one getting blasted.

As a long time Gran Turismo fan I reserve the right to disagree with your use of the term "GT fans" in this shitty context. If you are a fan of good racing games and are over 8 years old you would leave that kind of messed up rhetoric alone ("Right to be defensive", "right to be riled up", "getting blasted"...), period. Give me a fucking break..

 

[Maastricht]

A small rectification - I complained earlier about the car shaders being bad in the shadows, but I checked my display settings and noticed that my RGB settings were on 'Intermediate' instead of Expanded. I've been testing and comparing Forza and Prologue on my LCD screen, which is a PC screen and therefore should be on Full RGB, or in other words, Expanded. This actually made quite a big difference. The old Ferrari in the Lancer Evo X race still looks a bit crappy under some angles, but overall the cars look very good.

Ironically I'm now reaching a point where I like the car graphics better, and the environment a little bit less. The longer you look at the environment, the more clearly it stands out that it's not actually that good (at least I think so), but after readjusting your expectations coming from the photomode shots (Che at least was clear about that always - he should just have made sure that some direct feed shots got out as well) the cars still look decent enough. Of course, there should have been 16 cars but other than that the game is pretty good and enjoyable.

I'm hotlapping now, getting some pretty decent times (you can check me, I'm ArwinGT4) and the hotlapping holds up pretty well - the rule systems are pretty good (you have to stay within the two white lines with at least one pair of wheels, no hitting the sides, etc.) and although the grass is weird and extremely grippy, it does help making going off track slower in general (still would have liked it more realistic though).

The AI on the other hand is still pretty crappy in most ways - occasionally it surprises me by not hitting me, but more often than not they still take me out where they really, really shouldn't . But all in all I'm quite happy and I think if I spend most of my time playing this online with competitive others, the track won't feel empty and the AI will be replaced with real people that drive fast. Considering that with all cars there are always at least 200 people faster than me (I drive with all assists off, as you can see - Xbox Live ID = ArwinGT4 ), it should be possible to find good competition online most of the time.

 

[Dra-Q]

One thing I noticed is that in cars like the Audi R8 when you are on the car selection screen and you are picking the colour, on GT5 the car seat leather also changes to match the car shell colour but in forza3 nothing.
A small detail but it does show the difference between the 2 teams.
There is no doubt that GT5 will be the better game and after seeing Che's screens that he boasted about and playing the game I must admit that this game has been such a disappointment.
It's as if Turn10 are trying to hard to fit to much in and failing.
I can't believe how terrible this game and the man I blame is Che.
He teased us with those screens of the cars and the interiors and they look nothing alike.
I tried the mini and when I got to the interior view I could not believe how awful it looked.You guys were meant to be great with the PGR team so what did you do with the interiors they had? It looks like you got their interiors and run them through the shite machine.
Shame on you Che, shame on you indeed.

Never ever believe viral marketing or community managers.

 

[Windom Earle]

People calling GT fans defensive should understand they have every right to be.

Look at the PR on both sides of the fence.

One completely ignores the other.
One keeps blasting the other.

Which fanbase would be more riled up? Probably the one getting blasted.

I agree with this. A lot of the negative attitude from GT fans towards Forza comes from this douche (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG4zQgjdggA) and a prominent GAF poster.

BUT... Those are only two people working at Turn 10, so the whole company should not suffer from their behaviour. Obviously, a lot of good and talented persons are working there.

To be fair, the game looks nothing like that. Forza 3's lighting seems to translate very badly into screenshots. Also aliaising is less present.

 

[WTFing]

2007 xbox game!

 

[StuBurns]

That motion blur looks a little too good, is it really direct feed of the retail build?

 

[Xun]

http://img.jeuxvideo.fr/00426404-photo-test-drive-unlimited.jpg
2007 xbox game!

The demo I have looks inferior to Forza.

 

[WTFing]

That motion blur looks a little too good, is it really direct feed of the retail build?

As real as fm3 retail build.

 

[Colocho]

Ok, I just found this thread, how many casualties have there been?

 

[Ptaaty]

I am exited for both.

My GT love took a nosedive with GT4...and then compared with Forza 1 it fell off the map for a bit.

Forza 2 has basically the perfect physics/car feel for a sim game. The AI is way past anything from GT.

The colors still looked a bit oversaturated and cartoony, not always, but too much. It is also a bit on the grainy side. Career mode was long but poorly done, just repetitive without much variation.

Car customizing and online amazing. Damage did what it had too...it affects handling and makes you a better driver.

GT5P comes along. and the presentation an gfx a mostly a clear step above. Interior mind blowing (although I hate driving from it).

GT5 will have more stuff in it, but I don't know if it will be better. Forza has been a much better racing game, with better environments, physics, damage, AI. GT5 could correct all these issues, and just add more from there.

It is pretty sad when people who claim to be console sim fans bag on the FM series. FM has provided the only real competition to GT and may finally force it to move beyond more cars and presentation. Damage, improved AI, and physics all look very likely for GT5.

 

[RSTEIN]

To be fair, the game looks nothing like that. Forza 3's lighting seems to translate very badly into screenshots. Also aliaising is less present.

Yeah. It's like Gears of War or something (which looks hideous in screenshots). The only way to appreciate the graphical splendor of either game is to watch direct feed video. It's easy to come up with crappy shots of both GT5 and Forza. If one watches direct feed footage of either game then the quick conclusion is that they both look amazing. This whole thread is a screenshot war yet screens do neither game any justice.

Keep those screenshots coming folks. :lol

 

[theignoramus]

Which GT5 direct feed screens are the ones captured in 720p/4xaa mode?
I'd like to see those.
And I keep hearing about FM3's wicked IQ.
Is it using filters or something? You're not getting a jaggy free image with 720p/2xaa, even with a television set to zero. If that was the case, then the game wouldnt be switching to 4xAA rendering mode in replays. Just because you arent seeing jaggies on your setup doesnt mean there arent any.

 

[jaypah]

I am exited for both.

My GT love took a nosedive with GT4...and then compared with Forza 1 it fell off the map for a bit.

Forza 2 has basically the perfect physics/car feel for a sim game. The AI is way past anything from GT.

The colors still looked a bit oversaturated and cartoony, not always, but too much. It is also a bit on the grainy side. Career mode was long but poorly done, just repetitive without much variation.

Car customizing and online amazing. Damage did what it had too...it affects handling and makes you a better driver.

GT5P comes along. and the presentation an gfx a mostly a clear step above. Interior mind blowing (although I hate driving from it).

GT5 will have more stuff in it, but I don't know if it will be better. Forza has been a much better racing game, with better environments, physics, damage, AI. GT5 could correct all these issues, and just add more from there.

It is pretty sad when people who claim to be console sim fans bag on the FM series. FM has provided the only real competition to GT and may finally force it to move beyond more cars and presentation. Damage, improved AI, and physics all look very likely for GT5.

honestly? i don't think Forza will ever get the respect it deserves, mainly because GT did it first and did it great. as long as both franchises continue to be awesome i'm perfectly fine with Forza getting so much hate. it makes for a better T10 product and it keeps the PD team on look out. fans may think PD is bullet proof but i doubt the devs at PD do and the competition will keep them pumping out excellence and maybe adopting some of what the competition has to offer along the way. win/win for those sane enough to own more than one console.

Which GT5 direct feed screens are the ones captured in 720p/4xaa mode?
I'd like to see those.
And I keep hearing about FM3's wicked IQ.
Is it using filters or something? You're not getting a jaggy free image with 720p/2xaa, even with a television set to zero. If that was the case, then the game wouldnt be switching to 4xAA rendering mode in replays.

don't know about other folks but for me the Forza 3 demo isn't perfect IQ wise at all. that said though i don't notice much in the way of jaggies while it's running. they're there but overall it still has a clean look. keep in mind that i don't game on PC where super high AA can be the norm so take my impression with a grain of noob-salt.

 

[WTFing]

Number 1 best selling US 2009 microwave vendor.

 

[avaya]

The main problem with Forza are the horrible design decisions made.

No need to pump so much budget on fully 3D environments which do not look at all real, they look like a videogame when the competition is aiming for uncanny valley. What is the point in 3d grass? That rock track, whatever that is, looks absolutely dreadful. Cypress in the hands of Naughty God doesn't even have the power to pull that off in proper 3D so the bronze-age hardware in the 360 does not stand a chance.

Cheating 3D > Fully 3D when it comes to real-world environments. It looks better on limited hardware, which is what the HD twins are. No debate.

A livery editor has also destroyed the lighting when compared to the benchmark. Livery editors are for pikeys.

In my personal opinion, if you defile a car from the Holy Scarlet Empire of Maranello you should die by lethal injection and have your offspring sterilised so that your deviant behaviour does not contaminate future generations.

Forza looks like it will decimate GT5 when it comes to online. I don't give a shit what Kaz said about online, he is full of shit. Looks like the only thing Forza will be better at than GT5.

Visuals...claiming Forza does tracks/models better than GT5 Prologue is utterly laughable. Forza is not a bad looking game. It is however no GT5. No need to bullshit with the GT5 has the models and Forza has the environments claim. This is not the United Nations. GT5 looks photorealistic. Forza looks like a videogame. Deal with it. The potato peeling privates will still fight on this point, but they keep opticians in business.

I'm going to say nothing about physics because the checkbox nature of the physics based arguments when it comes to driving model has always amused me. Saying your model can simulate a certain car behaviour does not make your model better by default. A horrible simulation of a particular characteristic can go as far as ruining your whole model. rFactor is the best example of this but since it is so tweakable you can take out some of the checkbox features which ruin everything. So who has the better physics (driving model)? That is entirely PREFERENCE.

Am I doing it right?