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[AndyD]

If we were talking about funding the nazi regime, exploiting 4 year olds in coal mines, or some other issue of debateable import, you might have a point. But "dev 1 said his game is the best in his genre" hardly rises to that level, so no, they have no point.

Hey I don't say one person's justification is better than another's.

You said you would buy GT5 if the community manager clubbed baby seals. I would not. Would that mean that I was wrong not to buy it because I did not agree with their practices? Hardly.

Some people say they won't buy F3 or whatever because they feel the community manager misled and strung them along for months and made numerous false statements. I don't think its your position to judge whether that's enough or not for them. If the company picked that community manager then its their problem if they catch the flak from his behavior while doing his job.

 

[AMUSIX]

Damn, bish. Ikonos was one of the most level-headed people in this thread. D:


edit: In all seriousness, I'm not quite understanding that ban. Some rule about NPD discussion or ad hominem or something? Can anyone explain?

I'm with Recoil. Ikonos was very straight forward, and level-headed...but the ban confused me. I guess there was an ad hominem attack there, but it seemed rather light compared to a lot of what this thread contains. Is is the mention of NPD? New rule? Just want to be sure so I don't make the same mistake.

 

[Flyguy]

I guess its understandable that you don't keep up with GT5 news.

It's hard keeping up with a 5 year news cycle.

 

[FortunateSon]

That's the weirdest post I've seen in a long time.

"I disagree with you, so don't come here and say things that I disagree with."

Look at what you said. Here, again.

GT5 and PD have their work cut out for them. Besting Forza3 will be very, very difficult. I fully except GT5 to merely be a sidegrade to Forza3.

That's a fucking blanket statement to make. You haven't even played GT5, you are just going to make claims like that by what? How the fuck do you know it's going to be a sidegrade to Forza 3? From your FM3 impressions, the game sure as hell hell doesn't impress at all.

Besting Forza 3 will be very hard? How so? Explain please. Physics? Collisions? Online? Livery lol :lol), buying parts?

Do you even fucking know what a spoiler does when you add/buy it for your car? You probably don't.

 

[Chrange]

I guess its understandable that you don't keep up with GT5 news.

I would think that since I can recall the Christmas 2008 thing, I kept up with it more than some of the GT "fans" have. Either that or I don't dump anything from my memory that doesn't jive with the current conditions, 1984-style. It was 'ready to hit shelves' in 2008 (again in 2009, but I'm ignoring that) and now it's releasing in Spring 2010...you disagree with that?

Look at what you said. Here, again.



That's a fucking blanket statement to make. You haven't even played GT5, you are just going to make claims like that by what? How the fuck do you know it's going to be a sidegrade to Forza 3? From your FM3 impressions, the game sure as hell hell doesn't impress at all.

Besting Forza 3 will be very hard? How so? Explain please. Physics? Collisions? Online? Livery lol :lol), buying parts?

Do you even fucking know what a spoiler does when you add/buy it for your car? You probably don't.

You keep asking for other people to explain why they think the physics are better TO THEM, but you don't bother to explain why you think they're better TO YOU.

 

[jakonovski]

I'm with Recoil. Ikonos was very straight forward, and level-headed...but the ban confused me. I guess there was an ad hominem attack there, but it seemed rather light compared to a lot of what this thread contains. Is is the mention of NPD? New rule? Just want to be sure so I don't make the same mistake.

I guess he wants to limit the war to just GT5 vs. Forza3, so bringing up the platforms is a no-no.

 

[PartlyCloudlike]

I'm with Recoil. Ikonos was very straight forward, and level-headed...but the ban confused me. I guess there was an ad hominem attack there, but it seemed rather light compared to a lot of what this thread contains. Is is the mention of NPD? New rule? Just want to be sure so I don't make the same mistake.

Wow really, I thought he sounded like a sanctimonious prick who wagged his finger at people and acted like his shit didn't stink even though his posts indicated otherwise. But that's me.

 

[[Nintex]]

Hey I don't say one person's justification is better than another's.

You said you would buy GT5 if the community manager clubbed baby seals. I would not. Would that mean that I was wrong not to buy it because I did not agree with their practices? Hardly.

Some people say they won't buy F3 or whatever because they feel the community manager misled and strung them along for months and made numerous false statements. I don't think its your position to judge whether that's enough or not for them. If the company picked that community manager then its their problem if they catch the flak from his behavior while doing his job.

Devs fling with shit all the time. I remember all the so called Halo killers. :lol

If we stop buying games from developers who lie we're left with little to play. I'd say only Rare would be left because they rarely come out to say something.

 

[chubigans]

I would think that since I can recall the Christmas 2008 thing, I kept up with it more than some of the GT "fans" have. Either that or I don't dump anything from my memory that doesn't jive with the current conditions, 1984-style. It was 'ready to hit shelves' in 2008 (again in 2009, but I'm ignoring that) and now it's releasing in Spring 2010...you disagree with that?

Christmas 2008? That only exists in your mind, my friend.

IGN: Lastly, what's the status on the full Gran Turismo 5? Where are you at in production?

Kazunori Yamauchi: Of course after this next update, we're going to have another update later on in the year. There's no plans in the works for GT5 yet - that might be 2009, or it might be 2010... But we're totally focused on getting the updates through for Gran Turismo 5 Prologue, and that's all we're focused on.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/891/891903p1.html

 

[jakonovski]

Look at what you said. Here, again.



That's a fucking blanket statement to make. You haven't even played GT5, you are just going to make claims like that by what? How the fuck do you know it's going to be a sidegrade to Forza 3? From your FM3 impressions, the game sure as hell hell doesn't impress at all.

Besting Forza 3 will be very hard? How so? Explain please. Physics? Collisions? Online? Livery lol :lol), buying parts?

Do you even fucking know what a spoiler does when you add/buy it for your car? You probably don't.

Holy crap, this is the first time I've been the target of personal attacks for liking a game. :lol

I just think right now that the Forza3 experience is so visceral and real that it won't be topped anytime soon, especially not by a dev (PD) whose products have always had a certain clinical feel to me.

 

[belvedere]

Devs fling with shit all the time. I remember all the so called Halo killers. :lol

If we stop buying games from developers who lie we're left with little to play. I'd say only Rare would be left because they rarely come out to say something.

You realize a the media coined that phrase, right? IIRC it was PSXNation and a couple of Euro mags.

 

[FortunateSon]

Can someone tell me how is Iknos level headed? Someone please. Everyone here seems to think so and just because of that he can't get banned or that he is free to call out Sony fans, GT fans fucking batshit insane and trolls. Calling out one side and not the other side is insane.

 

[FortunateSon]

Holy crap, this is the first time I've been the target of personal attacks for liking a game. :lol

I just think right now that the Forza3 experience is so visceral and real that it won't be topped anytime soon, especially not by a dev (PD) whose products have always had a certain clinical feel to me.

Okay, whatever makes you sleep. Just make sure you don't get dissapointed if GT5 beats out your FM3 in the end.

And putting FM3 with the words such as "real" and "visceral" is a scary thought. Because real it definitely isn't. But I'll leave it at that.

 

[Woz]

Can someone tell me how is Iknos level headed? Someone please. Everyone here seems to think so and just because of that he can't get banned or that he is free to call out Sony fans, GT fans fucking batshit insane and trolls. Calling out one side and not the other side is insane.

Ok, that shit is already cold, ca we pass along and start some new crazyness?

 

[[Nintex]]

You realize a the media coined that phrase, right? IIRC it was PSXNation and a couple of Euro mags.

Just an example of a term that is still being thrown around by developers, Timegate recently said that Section is better than Halo. Developers lie all the time, well those mostly aren't lies in that point of development.

 

[jakonovski]

Okay, whatever makes you sleep. Just make sure you don't get dissapointed if GT5 beats out your FM3 in the end.

And putting FM3 with the words such as "real" and "visceral" is a scary thought. Because real it definitely isn't. But I'll leave it at that.

It really bothers you that I'm having fun with the Forza3 demo, doesn't it? :lol

 

[belvedere]

Just an example of a term that is still being thrown around by developers, Timegate recently said that Section is better than Halo. Developers lie all the time, well they mostly aren't lies in that point of development.

Oh wow, didn't realize that was still being used.

:lol

 

[Chrange]

Christmas 2008? That only exists in your mind, my friend.


http://ps3.ign.com/articles/891/891903p1.html

For next year, the chief executive of Sony Computer Entertainment for southern Europe said that they are developing a new game thriller, in which the player may be designing their own history, and the new version of Gran Turismo, which will arrive at Christmas.

http://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-5-coming-christmas-2009/

Sorry, guess it was Christmas 2009 after all. Heard about it in 2008!

 

[elrechazado]

Surely you're not denying that the (at the very least) unprofessional things spewed by the Forza staff at e3 don't reflect poorly on the studio in any way? Also, as it's been brought up numerous times before, the people at PD are anal retentive, obsessed, passionate, driven, (no pun intended) car fanatics. This has been proven in their tiresome and loooooong development periods. This in no way takes from T10, but the authenticity and seriousness of the development efforts are never questioned. Nor is their professionalism.

Surely I am saying that I could not care less about what they say, because I enjoy playing good games. When I can actually play the words that come out of a developer's mouth, please let me know.

 

[belvedere]

http://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-5-coming-christmas-2009/

Sorry, guess it was Christmas 2009 after all. Heard about it in 2008!

Yeah...

So how does that make F3's lighting engine any better?

 

[elrechazado]

It really bothers you that I'm having fun with the Forza3 demo, doesn't it? :lol

How could you be having fun with it, don't you know that Turn 10 said good things, about their own game??? They even dared to say that other games weren't as good as the product they made. Try having fun now!

 

[macfoshizzle]

i can't believe people are arguing about gt5 vs forza.

 

[Woz]

http://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-5-coming-christmas-2009/

Sorry, guess it was Christmas 2009 after all. Heard about it in 2008!

Well, untill now the mantra from Kaz was "we never set a release date, so GT5 was never delayed" :/

 

[Firewire]

I would think that since I can recall the Christmas 2008 thing, I kept up with it more than some of the GT "fans" have. Either that or I don't dump anything from my memory that doesn't jive with the current conditions, 1984-style. It was 'ready to hit shelves' in 2008 (again in 2009, but I'm ignoring that) and now it's releasing in Spring 2010...you disagree with that?

Yeas I do. In the latest interviews it was stated by Kaz himself that the game would be done for all territories in March. The reason no European or N.A specific date was announced was because the marketing plans hadn't been finalized for those territories. I don't think the difference in release dates will be measured in months. You are stretching a bit.

 

[gkryhewy]

he is free to call out Sony fans, GT fans fucking batshit insane and trolls. Calling out one side and not the other side is insane.

Yeah, because he was clearly the worst example of that in this thread.

 

[jakonovski]

How could you be having fun with it, don't you know that Turn 10 said good things, about their own game??? They even dared to say that other games weren't as good as the product they made. Try having fun now!

I'm reminded of the burger joint scene in Falling Down.

 

[Dina]

oops

Iknos but not the other contestant?

 

[FortunateSon]

You keep asking for other people to explain why they think the physics are better TO THEM, but you don't bother to explain why you think they're better TO YOU.

Yeah, because I'm not the one claiming "OMFG, FM3 physics are good, it's realistic, it's so much better than GT5". I'm not the one claiming that; so why should I bother explaining why the physics are better? The physics aren't even good to me. Guess which side of the fans are claiming this as a factual statement? FM3 fans of course.

I'm just here to shoot down claims about FM3 physics being godly like. Enlighten me. I'll try tackling any statements you have on it. If I'm wrong, correct me. Is all.

Iknos but not the other contestant?

You bitter about that bro. :lol

 

[Dina]

I'm not the one claiming that; so why should I bother explaining why the physics are better? The physics aren't even good to me.

Why?

Examples.

 

[mujun]

C'mon, this is awesome

 

[bishoptl]

i can't believe people are arguing about gt5 vs forza.

Hello and welcome to the internet hate machine. We have punch and pie.

So...after playing the FM3 demo for a bit and pulling out Prologue for another go round, I'm of the same opinion that I had with FM2...Forza's racing experience is just more appealing to me. I've always found Prologue to be somewhat more sedate in terms of feedback, despite the higher level of polish. Lack of damage is partially to blame, and I'm looking forward to seeing how that changes come March. Right now, however, hopping into the Audi R8 and whipping around Montserrat is more engaging. That's with the joypad alone, I can only imagine what it'd be like to play this with the racing wheel.

The racer AI is much more dynamic here. The AI suffers from the occasional bout of understeer just like the folks I race online. It holds the line aggressively, spins out and generally pushes me in a similar manner to a human player. Despite my disdain for wishy-washy terms, it generally does feel more "alive". Take that for what you will. Environments are great, but honestly I only pay attention to that aspect during replays. The cars themselves are quite nice, in-game, UI, photomode and replay - but no question, they suffer in comparison to Prologue.

In a perfect world, I'd combine FM3's driving model and opponent AI with Prologue's graphic sheen and overall polish for the racer of my dreams. Until then, I'll just enjoy FM3 now and see what GT5 brings next spring. The bar for console sim racing has been pushed even further.

Which when you think about it, really isn't a bad situation to be in at all.

there's yer red meat, now git git git

 

[Interfectum]

Can someone tell me how is Iknos level headed? Someone please. Everyone here seems to think so and just because of that he can't get banned or that he is free to call out Sony fans, GT fans fucking batshit insane and trolls. Calling out one side and not the other side is insane.

Don't worry the only people who are calling Iknos level-headed are Forza fanatics.

Just tried the Forza 3 demo on a friend's 360 - it plays very arcadey and the game looks just like those screens posted by Gamersyde and Taxigamer.

Not the bullshots Turn 10 paraded for so long.

It's not a bad game visually I just don't understand why people can't accept it doesn't look anywhere near as good as GT5P.

 

[FortunateSon]

Why?

Examples.

1) Cars in FM2/3 end up oversteering all the time or most of the time.
2) I could simply fly around corners so easily too, what's up with that?
3) Not only that, for some damn reason, the tires have this glue on them because they seem to have super grip or something, glued to the fucking track, you know.
4) Oh, not to mention, being able to spin out in FM2 having more to do with physics tweaked to allow for easy drifting over any principles of realism.
5) In FM3 I didn't feel the weight of the car, the movement of the car, it didn't give me a good representation of the car I drove.
6) In FM3, the throttle response to weight shifting didn't feel natural. I can only take FM2 as an example here, I could pretty much lift off throttle to shift the weight back and forth through the curves without much understeer and this was on Suzuka. And it's the same shit with FM3.

I might go rent NFS: Shift now just for kicks

Oh you Canuck fan! And yeah, try it. I had fun with it! And about your assessment on the demo, cool.

The bar for console sim racing has been pushed even further.

Um, you don't even know how GT5 is going to end up. Making a statement like that is pointless.

 

[jakonovski]

Ahahaha, I just had the mother of all pileups, first I hit one car head on, rolling it, then another t-boned me rolling us both, after which a fourth car came round the hilltop and hit one of my victims, flying tail over nose. Epic win.

 

[BravoSuperStar]

Hello and welcome to the internet hate machine. We have punch and pie.

Lol.

And I agree with your assessment of the demo.

 

[Cat in the Hat]

Definitely check out shift

I don't have a 360 but I do have a PS3 with Prolouge and I can say with no regret that Shift is just 100% funner to play. Well I hear it's kinda buggy on consoles so... maybe it isn't as fun as the PC version.

 

[Arnie]

I agree with Bish, everything about Forza 3 apart from the visuals is superior to Prologue, thus the bar has been rased. I suspect many people in this thread who are shitting on it simply havn't played it.

I will check GT5 out but going on Polyphony's history I don't expect them to make the changes they actually need to make in order to meet the bar Turn 10 have set.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

BUT BUT BUT GT5's AI FORCES U TO BE A BETTER DRIVER!!!!!!1!!11111!!!eleven!!1!

 

[gkryhewy]

I wish there were a shift demo. Maybe when EA gets it to 1.0 they'll release one.

 

[bishoptl]

Um, you don't even know how GT5 is going to end up. Making a statement like that is pointless.

How so?

I'm playing FM3 right now (the demo). It drives better than Prologue, which came before it. So what's wrong with saying that it's pushing the console sim genre forward? It's just as likely that GT5 will leapfrog this in March, which means the bar has been pushed yet again.

I don't see what the problem is.

 

[FortunateSon]

I agree with Bish, everything about Forza 3 apart from the visuals is superior to Prologue, thus the bar has been rased. I suspect many people in this thread who are shitting on it simply havn't played it.

Cool, a freaking full game beat out a demo. Congratulations Turn 10! The bar has been raised?

By the way, I've played FM3.

I will check GT5 out but going on Polyphony's history I don't expect them to make the changes they actually need to make in order to meet the bar Turn 10 have set.

Jeez, meet the bar that Turn 10 has set. You guys make it sound like as if FM3 has some revolutionary features or something. Online? Check. Damage? Check. Physics? Check. Both the games have em', GT5 will have features that FM3 won't have and vice-versa. So who really set the bar for who here. So what is your point by saying "the bar that Turn 10 has set?" Livery editor? :lol :lol

It drives better than Prologue, which came before it.

Exactly, it's a demo, an old one at that. And drives better than Prologue, won't you say that's more inline with personal preferences and not a factual statement though? I'll leave it at that.

That's what's most puzzling me. Ikonos gets jailed, but FortunateSon -- arguably the biggest troll in this thread right now -- goes free?

Wow. Okay, I'm a troll. I don't know why I'm not banned. I have no idea. Listen, I made valid points against Iknos, if I was trolling, I guess he was too. And suddenly right now, I'm the biggest troll in this thread even though I made valid points about physics, something I've been on in this thread against FM2/3, and the only reason I'm doing that is because a lot of blind FM2/3 fanatics claim that FM2/3 has some of the best physics which is simply not true.

 

[Recoil]

Iknos but not the other contestant?

That's what's most puzzling me. Ikonos gets jailed, but FortunateSon -- arguably the biggest troll in this thread right now -- goes free?

Whut da fux up, bish? o_0



edit: And despite PartlyCloudlike, Interfectum, and FortunateSon's protests, Ikonos has been very level headed. You only need to go look at his posting history in the GT5 thread to prove that, he's been very positive there. He definitely prefers Forza, but there's nothing wrong with that, and there shouldn't be. Likewise, people are free to prefer GT5 -- the way I see it, as long as you don't slander the other game.

He's been a pretentious dick on occasion, but that's because he's right. It's kinda hard not to be smug when your opponent is acting like an idiot -- and with all of us sharing this same feeling, I think we're all guilty of this.

 

[KillerAJD]

Hello and welcome to the internet hate machine. We have punch and pie.

...

The racer AI is much more dynamic here. The AI suffers from the occasional bout of understeer just like the folks I race online. It holds the line aggressively, spins out and generally pushes me in a similar manner to a human player. Despite my disdain for wishy-washy terms, it generally does feel more "alive". Take that for what you will. Environments are great, but honestly I only pay attention to that aspect during replays. The cars themselves are quite nice, in-game, UI, photomode and replay - but no question, they suffer in comparison to Prologue.

...

there's yer red meat, now git git git

You probably have, but if not, you should definitely check out NFS Shift. I really like it for the bolded reasons, although some people feel they are too aggressive and unrealistic. For me, having to fight for position is exciting, and Shift seems to satiate that desire for excitement pretty well. It might be buggy, but man am I having a good time with it. Plus, the cockpit view is outstanding, and really gets me in the mood to race.

You've also really piqued my interest with Forza. I need to see if a cousin will let me come over for awhile to mess around with the demo, lol.

 

[jakonovski]

Jeez, meet the bar that Turn 10 has set. You guys make it sound like as if FM3 has some revolutionary features or something. Online? Check. Damage? Check. Physics? Check. Both the games have em', GT5 will have features that FM3 won't have and vice-versa. So who really set the bar for who here. So what is your point by saying "the bar that Turn 10 has set?" Livery editor? :lol :lol

Generally speaking, the one to release first gets to set the bar first. I'm sure Forza Motorsport 16 will beat everything, but it doesn't mean everything sucks until it gets released in 2145.

 

[BravoSuperStar]

That's what's most puzzling me. Ikonos gets jailed, but FortunateSon -- arguably the biggest troll in this thread right now -- goes free?

Whut da fux up, bish? o_0

Cmon shit would be boring without defensive GT fans like him. And Iknos resorted to system trolling, sorry but he should have known better.

 

[Interfectum]

Cool, a freaking full game beat out a demo. Congratulations Turn 10! Jeez, meet the bar that Turn 10 has set. You guys make it sound like as if FM3 has some revolutionary features or something. Online? Check. Damage? Check. Physics? Check. Both the games have em', GT5 will have features that FM3 won't have and vice-versa. So who really set the bar for who here. So what is your point by saying "the bar that Turn 10 has set?" Livery editor? :lol :lol

I think bish is referring to the complete and I guess most up to date package and I think it's a fair assessment. Also note he's comparing it against GT5P not GT5.

From what I played Forza 3's online component is great and leaves GT5P's in the dust.

Online is something PD need to take notes on.

 

[LordPhoque]

Um, you don't even know how GT5 is going to end up. Making a statement like that is pointless.

So we need to have GT5 to make such a statement ? Jeez, so defensive.

 

[Doc Evils]

That's what's most puzzling me. Ikonos gets jailed, but FortunateSon -- arguably the biggest troll in this thread right now -- goes free?

Whut da fux up, bish? o_0



edit: And despite PartlyCloudlike, Interfectum, and FortunateSon's protests, Ikonos has been very level headed. You only need to go look at his posting history in the GT5 thread to prove that, he's been very positive there. He definitely prefers Forza, but there's nothing wrong with that, and there shouldn't be. Likewise, people are free to prefer GT5 -- the way I see it, as long as you don't slander the other game.

He's been a pretentious dick on occasion, but that's because he's right. It's kinda hard not to be smug when your opponent is acting like an idiot -- and with all of us sharing this same feeling, I think we're all guilty of this.

 

[bishoptl]

That's what's most puzzling me. Ikonos gets jailed, but FortunateSon -- arguably the biggest troll in this thread right now -- goes free?

Whut da fux up, bish? o_0

Dragging NPD into the equation wasn't part of the deal. This is car wars, not system wars.

I think bish is referring to the complete and I guess most up to date package and I think it's a fair assessment. Also note he's comparing it against GT5P not GT5.

Thank you for reading and comprehending. Now I'm bailing out of this thread to go play some more FM3. lates

You probably have, but if not, you should definitely check out NFS Shift. I really like it for the bolded reasons, although some people feel they are too aggressive and unrealistic. For me, having to fight for position is exciting, and Shift seems to satiate that desire for excitement pretty well. It might be buggy, but man am I having a good time with it. Plus, the cockpit view is outstanding, and really gets me in the mood to race.

I love swapping paint - within reason - so I'm really looking forward to playing NASCAR in GT5. Based on your comments, I think I'll go grab Shift later on tonight and give it a shot.

 

[FortunateSon]

He definitely prefers Forza, but there's nothing wrong with that, and there shouldn't be. Likewise, people are free to prefer GT5 -- the way I see it, as long as you don't slander the other game.

I prefer GT5 as well. I never did slander FM3, I never went into the official FM3 thread to troll or some shit, I simply had no interest in the game.

I'm only in here because Forza fans started to take potshots at GT features and its physics engine, calling it thrash and so forth.

So bro, know what your saying before you spit stuff out.

Edit: I'm off to to play some Uncharted! Woot and some FM3/Shift! Later.