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[fabricated backlash]

Thanks for the impressions.

So, you say that the shifting gave a 'kick back' after each shift. Is this true for all the cars you drove?
That's some great detail there Turn 10.

Another question. Did you at anytime experience any snap oversteer or any unsettling when braking?

The physical kickback was there for the demo with the Subaru at least. I would asume that it should be there for all cars. I was only allowed to play one race (2 laps) with the subaru. Unfortunately they had the manual gearbox removed and you could only use the paddles. Would've been even cooler using the clutch and shifting manually.

At least playing with the controller, the camera in the cockpit was shaken by harsh breaking and accelerations. So I guess they are simulating that aspect visually at least.

About the snap oversteer. I didn't notice that, but if I'm not wrong that's mainly a problem of mid engine cars no? The subaru is a front engine car. The ride certainly got unstable though when braking suddenly or when braking in corners after going in too fast.

I heard that some screens for forza 4 are non-calibrated or have sharpness at 50% so that's most likely why some setups looked shitty.

You'd think someone there knew about tv's and wanted to show off the game in it's full glory, guess not.

After being to the Sony booth and witnessing the horrible calibration of their Move setups, having a jagged screen with wrong settings isn't quite as bad. At least Forza was playable, most of the Move shooters weren't.

Hell aside from that developer from Ubisoft that talked me through the Ghost Recon demo, and the Guy watching over the Forza hydraulic simulator, I was confronted with the utmost ignorance and incompetence at most of Gamescom. I guess most of the people setting up the demo stations don't even know what they are setting up there.

 

[Fortinbras]

Edit: Anything new in those German previews?

Not really.

In any case i wouldn't go as far as saying it destroys and humiliates gt5.
Dawn on Nurburgring left me speechless.

Based on what we've seen so far I'd say that GT5 still looks more realistic. FM4 looks excellent but still not as real as GT5. GT5 also has the better image quality.

That's my personal opinion, others might disagree. In fact some of the German previews say that FM4 is the better looking game.

 

[Xanadu]

Not really.




Based on what we've seen so far I'd say that GT5 still looks more realistic. FM4 looks excellent but still not as real as GT5. GT5 also has the better image quality.

That's my personal opinion, others might disagree. In fact some of the German previews say that FM4 is the better looking game.

GT5 looks better when you use premium cars definitely, kaz should have stuck to the old saying "quality over quantity". GT5 was a disappointment

 

[Mascot]

With Turn 10's admission that they have only been able to render snowy scenes effectively since they started using IBL, I wonder if any other tracks might get a winter makeover like PGR4 had? Maple Valley could look awesome with snow-covered trees.

 

[saladine1]

The physical kickback was there for the demo with the Subaru at least. I would asume that it should be there for all cars. I was only allowed to play one race (2 laps) with the subaru. Unfortunately they had the manual gearbox removed and you could only use the paddles. Would've been even cooler using the clutch and shifting manually.

At least playing with the controller, the camera in the cockpit was shaken by harsh breaking and accelerations. So I guess they are simulating that aspect visually at least.

About the snap oversteer. I didn't notice that, but if I'm not wrong that's mainly a problem of mid engine cars no? The subaru is a front engine car. The ride certainly got unstable though when braking suddenly or when braking in corners after going in too fast.

That's correct. Snap oversteer is a phenomenon usually associated with MR cars. I didn't realize you only drove the Subaru.

That's some good news there with the cars becoming unstable during hard braking. Again, these little details add so much and hope that G Rom adds those in the list of details for the OT.

 

[eso76]

GT5 looks better when you watch premium cars in replays maybe/perhaps depending on the track

fixed
but let's not get there, sorry i was the one that brought this out quoting the hands on i read.

 

[Fortinbras]

I heard that some screens for forza 4 are non-calibrated or have sharpness at 50% so that's most likely why some setups looked shitty.

I've been at gamescom twice and I can confirm that Microsoft used shitty screens for most of the games. I didn't go to gamescom this year but as far as I'm told they used the same screens again.

 

[flyinpiranha]

Not really.




Based on what we've seen so far I'd say that GT5 still looks more realistic. FM4 looks excellent but still not as real as GT5. GT5 also has the better image quality.

That's my personal opinion, others might disagree. In fact some of the German previews say that FM4 is the better looking game.

It's funny, GT5 does look better at points but the screen tearing and pop up on certain tracks really took me out of it. I don't want to turn this into a vs thread at all ... but there is a reason that even after getting to the X1 challenges in GT5 I shelved it and went back to Forza 3 (that had my save deleted and starting from scratch). I will take a slight hit to visual quality and have a consistent FPS and no tearing than the other choice.

I do like what I see so far in Forza 4 but I'm really holding out my gitty-ness until the demo drops which should be in what, about 3-4 weeks maybe?

That's why I'm really happy that the visual fidelity is being improved while (so far) not taking a hit to the actual racing and FPS. That is the most important to me.

 

[fabricated backlash]

That's correct. Snap oversteer is a phenomenon usually associated with MR cars. I didn't realize you only drove the Subaru.

That's some good news there with the cars becoming unstable during hard braking. Again, these little details add so much and hope that G Rom adds those in the list of details for the OT.

I'm currently uploading a video... well half of it actually since during the first half of the race my girlfriend who held the cam was pushed around by the asshole crowd.
It's the BMW M5 on Hockenheim. I did some serious overbraking and at times you could really sense the back swiveling and the body going sideways.

 

[Mascot]

That's some good news there with the cars becoming unstable during hard braking

Hell yeah. It's one of the little details I love about Shift 2; chasing a pack of cars down a high-speed straight into a sharp bend, and watching them squirm and jitter around under heavy braking. Forza needs more shit like this, definitely a step in the right direction.

I'm still blown away by seeing a tyre seemingly explode in a cloud of smoke on a car in front of me in GRID, then watching in amazement as the AI driver tried to correct the snap before spinning off into the barriers. A true jaw-dropping moment. I'm not expecting stuff like that in Forza but some more errors by the AI leading to spins and off-track excursions would help to keep things interesting and believable.

 

[PjotrStroganov]

Hell yeah. It's one of the little details I love about Shift 2; chasing a pack of cars down a high-speed straight into a sharp bend, and watching them squirm and jitter around under heavy braking. Forza needs more shit like this, definitely a step in the right direction.

I'm still blown away by seeing a tyre seemingly explode in a cloud of smoke on a car in front of me in GRID, then watching in amazement as the AI driver tried to correct the snap before spinning off into the barriers. A true jaw-dropping moment. I'm not expecting stuff like that in Forza but some more errors by the AI leading to spins and off-track excursions would help to keep things interesting and believable.

I loved the fact that the AI in F3 tried to outbrake me on Le Mans and totaly missed the corner as a result. Those little touches make it worth while.

 

[Mascot]

I loved the fact that the AI in F3 tried to outbrake me on Le Mans and totaly missed the corner as a result. Those little touches make it worth while.

Absolutely. Plenty of times in GRID, Shift and GT5 you'd turn a corner and encounter an AI car that had spun out and was facing the wrong way, or even a pile up of AI cars after a crash. Really adds to the immersion, to the feeling of being in a living, breathing race where anything could happen.

 

[op_ivy]

Absolutely. Plenty of times in GRID, Shift and GT5 you'd turn a corner and encounter an AI car that had spun out and was facing the wrong way, or even a pile up of AI cars after a crash. Really adds to the immersion, to the feeling of being in a living, breathing race where anything could happen.

hell yeah, shift especially. trying to weave through the smoke and piled up cars in front of you was pretty awesome. infrequent enough to be believable, but frequent enough to have it happen a handful of times in my play.

 

[Mascot]

hell yeah, shift especially. trying to weave through the smoke and piled up cars in front of you was pretty awesome. infrequent enough to be believable, but frequent enough to have it happen a handful of times in my play.

It's hard to describe, but I actually feel grimey after playing GRID and Shift, like I've got nostrils full of petrol fumes and brake dust. It's incredible that a videogame can create such a psychosomatic reaction.

More filth needed, Forza! More brutality!

 

[saladine1]

Lol, there's more talk here of PGR,SHIFT and GRID than FM itself!
Wonder what that tells ya?

 

[soundscream]

Lol, there's more talk here of PGR,SHIFT and GRID than FM itself!
Wonder what that tells ya?

We need one of those good ole MS leaks.

 

[Ty4on]

Absolutely. Plenty of times in GRID, Shift and GT5 you'd turn a corner and encounter an AI car that had spun out and was facing the wrong way, or even a pile up of AI cars after a crash. Really adds to the immersion, to the feeling of being in a living, breathing race where anything could happen.

Remember the first time I saw cars spinning on the minimap in NFS Porsche, shame the Hard AI in FM3 almost never does that.

 

[dragonelite]

Lol, there's more talk here of PGR,SHIFT and GRID than FM itself!
Wonder what that tells ya?

Demo time soon ?

 

[Mascot]

Wonder what that tells ya?

Track creator confirmed?
Porsche is in?
SpaHurst day one?
Day/night/rain/rally/open wheelers?

You are worse than BADNED with your cryptic teases, Saladine..!

 

[sneaky77]

hell yeah, shift especially. trying to weave through the smoke and piled up cars in front of you was pretty awesome. infrequent enough to be believable, but frequent enough to have it happen a handful of times in my play.

yeah i loved shift2 enough to 100% the game. I popped Forza 3 in yesterday and is way better than I remember it being, but also, the AI acts like your car is not there most of the time. In Shift2 I found that if you raced them clean they would usually do the same.

 

[Apex]

That's correct. Snap oversteer is a phenomenon usually associated with MR cars. I didn't realize you only drove the Subaru.

That's some good news there with the cars becoming unstable during hard braking. Again, these little details add so much and hope that G Rom adds those in the list of details for the OT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfi0g3aDRPI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvOg2ydEY7Q

A. The Pendulum effect:

This is the danger of any sort of countersteering, especially in a front wheel drive car, and especially when power is added. Applying opposite lock in a FWD means you corrected the slide to late, or have to brake (hard) through a corner, otherwise, it is the throttle that corrects the slide, with a minimal steering input. It is the risk of the car oversteering in the opposite direction. This is more dangerous than the original skid, because the latter can't always rip you away from the corner due to the great amounts of grip available to the front tires. However, the pendulum skid, created by countersteering, throws the whole inertia of the car, and even uses the grip and slippage of the front tires (as you accelerate) to turn the car into a skid in the opposite direction. The original skid is still usually going along the line of the original corner, and even a little adjustment to the steering and pedalling will atleast keep the car in it's lane. The opposite skid, however, will immediatly throw you off of the road, and spin you all around, and cannot be resolved, and might as well tip you over.

B. Fishtailing and Tankslappers

This has to be distinguished from "fishtailing", which occurs when the driver countersteers without throttle application (especially in front wheel drive) and the back is constantly being thrown from side to side, untill it pulls itself back straight or tips overs. In the UK, the term "Tank-Slapper" is sometimes used to refer to a "Fishtail" (Like a "Powerslide" and "Drift", "Feint" and "Flick", etc), but it's more accuratly used professionally to describe a rugh oversteer recovery, when the car agressively comes back into line, typically in a RWD or AWD, created by unsmooth power and steering adjustments. This, of course, has the potential of creating a pendulum effect and a fishtail.

http://www.trackpedia.com/wiki/Oversteer

All cars should experience some sort of snap oversteer, fishtailing or pendulum when you drive them fast and do one of the above mistakes, not only MR.

 

[G Rom]

Gamekult (french website) has an interview with Dan :
- No separate left/right tuning, still only front/rear
- There's an car they captured that wasn't revealed yet that was more special for him to approach than the McLaren F1 (?!!!)
- Still no talk about weather
- No dubbing for Clarkson, subtitles instead (fuck yeah !!!)
- Same talk about physics, FM3 import perks, etc...

 

[saladine1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfi0g3aDRPI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvOg2ydEY7Q


http://www.trackpedia.com/wiki/Oversteer

All cars should experience some sort of snap oversteer, fishtailing or pendulum when you drive them fast and do one of the above mistakes, not only MR.

It's all about inertia though. Because of where the engine is mounted,(MR) the oversteer(snap) is more pronounced than if it was FR,FF..etc

Gamekult (french website) has an interview with Dan :
- No separate left/right tuning, still only front/rear
- There's an car they captured that wasn't revealed yet that was more special for him to approach than the McLaren F1 (?!!!)
- Still no talk about weather
- No dubbing for Clarkson, subtitles instead (fuck yeah !!!)
- Same talk about physics, FM3 import perks, etc..

Fuck off Turn 10 with that shit FFS!
Why?!
I don't get it. What's so hard about introducing individual corner tuning?

 

[HollovVpo1nt]

Are Turn10 refusing to talk about weather of did they already announce there is no weather? From my observation, they're beeing evasive..

 

[saladine1]

Are Turn10 refusing to talk about weather of did they already announce there is no weather? From my observation, they're beeing evasive..

Dan's always hated weather static or otherwise. He has been adamant that it's no fun and as such, doesn't belong in Forza.
How about you leave the decision up to us oh bearded one?

 

[sneaky77]

I doubt there will be weather, wet roads would be cool, but raining, I am ok without it, I rather have night racing

 

[Trunchisholm]

Dan's always hated weather static or otherwise. He has been adamant that it's no fun and as such, doesn't belong in Forza.
How about you leave the decision up to us oh bearded one?

Such a shame... Weather is what made PGR4 the funnest racing game of this generation. Having said that, weather done bad is far worse than having no weather. The least fun thing for me is night racing, unless you have a street circuit with tons of street lamps. I want to see my road, thank you.

 

[U n i o n 0015]

I'd take open-wheel cars over weather or night any day of the week.

Would be badass to have some past and present F1 cars in the game.

 

[PjotrStroganov]

Dan's always hated weather static or otherwise. He has been adamant that it's no fun and as such, doesn't belong in Forza.
How about you leave the decision up to us oh bearded one?

They hate new stuff until they do it themselves.

 

[acm2000]

rain and night in othergame5 is awful, its not easy to get right, it plays havoc with the physics, i think the only racer to get wet right and still fun, was PGR4

 

[G Rom]

It's all about inertia though. Because of where the engine is mounted,(MR) the oversteer(snap) is more pronounced than if it was FR,FF..etc


Fuck off Turn 10 with that shit FFS!
Why?!
I don't get it. What's so hard about introducing individual corner tuning?

"...because it belongs to oval racing"

I prefere night racing myself. I always play during dawn/dusk transition in GT5 but I always turn off weather.

I'm really curious to see this more special than McLaren F1 car that Dan talked about. Please be the 1962 250 GTO !

 

[saladine1]

I'd rather anything challenging or different and track surface fits the bill. Night racing is fine, but it's still the same surface with only reduced visibilty to contend with. If you happen to know a track off by heart, it becomes even easier.
Wet,dirt..etc tracks on the other hand offer up more than just visibilty problems. You have to change practically everything. Your racing style, the racing lines, throttle and braking control, tuning..etc...
Like it's been said, it doesn't have to be dynamic weather, just a wet surface would be enough...

 

[fu3lfr3nzy]

I'm really curious to see this more special than McLaren F1 car that Dan talked about. Please be the 1962 250 GTO !

I was thinking of the GTO as well (or some other vintage Ferrari), though its probably gonna be a vintage american car from his childhood or some shit :/

 

[Xanadu]

I was thinking of the GTO as well (or some other vintage Ferrari), though its probably gonna be a vintage american car from his childhood or some shit :/

maybe the porsche 917??? lol

 

[Ty4on]

I still remember the early forum post after E3 2009 from T10 saying there was no rally or weather in Forza 3. Not saying there will be weather, but not answering the questions hasn't been their style (of what I've seen).

 

[U n i o n 0015]

I still remember the early forum post after E3 2009 from T10 saying there was no rally or weather in Forza 3. Not saying there will be weather, but not answering the questions hasn't been their style (of what I've seen).

You mean not answering questions is their style. Fans get more answers from unauthorized sources than from T10.

 

[Mascot]

There are no surprises left, people. Embrace it.

 

[Slayer-33]

I hope Sept blows mostly everything wide open I really hate being starved of info.

 

[fu3lfr3nzy]

Forza Garage Round 1: What could be better than a trio of Teutonic super-sedans on a Wednesday? Particularly the 2003 BMW M5, a 400-horsepower executive express that’s an instant classic. Also welcome back the 2003 Audi RS6 and 2004 Mercedes-Benz C32 AMG.

I know its been confirmed for quite some time now, but good to see the E39 "officially" announced in FM4

 

[jcutner]

2003 BMW M5

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS

 

[Xanadu]

2003 BMW M5

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS

old news now but im happy about it

 

[DasRaven]

I know its been confirmed for quite some time now, but good to see the E39 "officially" announced in FM4

Almost halfway through my final FM3 wishlist.
-928GTS (unlikely)
-240SX (likely)
-RS5 (likely)
-S2000 CR (unknown)
-HSV-10 (unknown)
-Optima SX (unknown)
-F1 (confirmed)
-E39 M5 (confirmed)
-570-4 Superleggera (confirmed)
-Z3 M Coupe (BADNED hinted, likely confirmed)

I would've expected them to replace the C32 with the C55 this time around. Meh.

 

[eso76]

- No separate left/right tuning, still only front/rear

Not a fan of ovals at all, so i don't really care.

- There's an car they captured that wasn't revealed yet that was more special for him to
approach than the McLaren F1 (?!!!)

The Nissan GTR ? It's quite a remarkable landmark, it would be strange if it wasn't autovista. Btw, i can't understand why they thought Ferrari California deserved the autovista treatment.
But he's probably talking about some classic F1.
It wasn't revealed what Bob's car was, right ?

- Still no talk about weather

Strange. Maybe we're getting something like wet / icy road. Not rain or snow (no weather 'per se' to quote a T10 employee) but the effects of those on the road.

- No dubbing for Clarkson, subtitles instead (fuck yeah !!!)

FUCK YEAH !

 

[Xanadu]

Almost halfway through my final FM3 wishlist.
-928GTS (unlikely)
-240SX (likely)
-RS5 (likely)
-S2000 CR (unknown)
-HSV-10 (unknown)
-Optima SX (unknown)
-F1 (confirmed)
-E39 M5 (confirmed)
-570-4 Superleggera (confirmed)
-Z3 M Coupe (BADNED hinted, likely confirmed)

everything on the tofu r list will be in the game

 

[fu3lfr3nzy]

I would've expected them to replace the C32 with the C55 this time around. Meh.

Even in FM3, you could swap the 5.4L M113 to make a fake C55 :lol (yeah, theyre lazy )

Though I swapped mine out with the M155 from the SLR McLaren. <3 my little rocket C-Class

 

[U n i o n 0015]

So seeing a lot of these returning cars, even ones as bland as the C32 makes me hopeful that the car list includes everything from 3 plus a ton of new cars. I like big car lists and I cannot lie.

E39 M5, hell yeah--my favorite.

 

[eso76]

So seeing a lot of these returning cars, even ones as bland as the C32 makes me hopeful that the car list includes everything from 3 plus a ton of new cars. I like big car lists and I cannot lie.

E39 M5, hell yeah--my favorite.

i'm sure every car from fm3 is coming back, licensing issues aside.
T10 put too much work and ultimately wasted too much time on models current gen couldn't even handle.
They were modeled to next gen standards, absolutely no reason to drop any of them, unless they have to pay a license for every model included which is very unlikely.

so...TRACK REVEAL ? WHERE IS IT !!

 

[Xanadu]

i'm sure every car from fm3 is coming back, licensing issues aside.
T10 put too much work and ultimately wasted too much time on models current gen couldn't even handle.
They were modeled to next gen standards, absolutely no reason to drop any of them, unless they have to pay a license for every model included which is very unlikely.

so...TRACK REVEAL ? WHERE IS IT !!

but GT5 premium models are even higher poly and even in race the cars are basically the full lod model. but then again the environments arent as good

 

[Xun]

but GT5 premium models are even higher poly and even in race the cars are basically the full lod model. but then again the environments arent as good

*sigh*

 

[eso76]

but GT5 premium models are even higher poly and even in race the cars are basically the full lod model. but then again the environments arent as good

No, they are basically the same. GT5 claims 500k poly models, i've seen 450k poly models in fm3 (i didn't count them, i extracted and imported the models in 3dstudio).
The figure for GT5 models includes some of the interiors (for when hood and doors come off etc) which are not modeled in forza.

And no, they are not nearly the same ingame ! Not at all, they are VERY different. Not as different as Fm3's, but take a good look up close and you realize you're looking at something below 100k, probably more like 70k or 80k.