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Frame Gen will gets updated on 40 and 50 series with a new AI model that is faster and uses less VRAM (~10% performance increase on 40 series)
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PicoLordens
Member
One game that certainly needs it is Indiana Jones. Even at 1440p native with DLAA and full path tracing my 4090 can't hit 100fps.
CompleteGlobalSaturation
Member
I decided to try DLSS FG on Ghost of Tsushima.
90FPS without FG feels smoother than 120FPS with FG.
Using the NVIDIA LAT, it appears FG adds 10msec more input lag than normal rasterisation. Furthermore I noticed an increase in motion artefacts.
The tech sucks if you are very sensitive to input lag and care about the best possible image clarity. I hope this is not the future of GPUs.
90FPS without FG feels smoother than 120FPS with FG.
Using the NVIDIA LAT, it appears FG adds 10msec more input lag than normal rasterisation. Furthermore I noticed an increase in motion artefacts.
The tech sucks if you are very sensitive to input lag and care about the best possible image clarity. I hope this is not the future of GPUs.
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The Cockatrice
Banned
If GoT doesnt have reflex then thats the reason why it feels less smooth. Most games should have it by default on when FG is enabled. It also makes no sense why your game would feel less smooth with FG on when you can reach 90 FPS by default without it. It's only incredibly noticeable if your nonfg framerate is very low, not 90.
llien
Banned
How much faster is it compared to this:
www.neogaf.com
?
New Lossless Scaling 2.9 update introduces 3x Frame Interpolation
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/993090/view/4145080305033108761 Introducing the X3 frame generation mode. LSFG 2.1 can now generate two intermediate frames, effectively tripling the framerate. X3 has increased GPU load by approximately 1.7 times compared to X2 mode. At the same time...
?
llien
Banned
For FG to reduce lag it needs to go "into the future", predicting frames.
Which is problematic.
So the best theoretical maximum it can do is increase lag by not that much.
Tarnpanzer
Member
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
You notice 10ms in a game like GOT. Really?
CompleteGlobalSaturation
Member
This is with Reflux On + Boost.
Without FG and Reflex off, the latency is still lower by 10-13msec than the above combination
Yes. There is a delay in movement when panning the camera with framegen. It simply does not feel as smooth as FG disabled.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
It has to be more than 10ms. Nobody would ever notice such a short amount of time in a game of that speed.
CompleteGlobalSaturation
Member
I decided to retest. Added latency seems to be approx 12 msec.
4K - no DLSS
4K DLSS Framegen + Reflex Boost
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Cyberpunkd
Member
The Cockatrice
Banned
I decided to retest. Added latency seems to be approx 12 msec.
4K - no DLSS
4K DLSS Framegen + Reflex Boost
You must have super human sense to notice the difference of MS between those two.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
On the one hand, it’s 50% more latency. On the other hand, you’re at 37ms which is very, very low. GOT also isn’t especially fast.I decided to retest. Added latency seems to be approx 12 msec.
4K - no DLSS
4K DLSS Framegen + Reflex Boost
CompleteGlobalSaturation
Member
Subjectively playing the game without FG feels smoother and more responsive. Of course I also recognise bias may play a role here. It would be better if this was a blinded test and I was not aware of which has FG on and off.
We can't argue that FG adds latency though.
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Xcell Miguel
Gold Member
Is your monitor/TV limited to 120 Hz ?I decided to retest. Added latency seems to be approx 12 msec.
4K - no DLSS
4K DLSS Framegen + Reflex Boost
If so, that may be normal that you feel an input delay. The 116 FPS of your FG screenshot look like a VSync limitation with VRR.
You already had 90 FPS without FG, if you enable FG but are limited to your screen's refresh rate, the game will have to render less frames so that FG frames and rendered frames can alternate until max refresh rate, causing higher delay between real frames, thus more input delay.
Try without VSync, or up some details or resolution to get a better ratio between FG and no FG.
90 real frames will have less input delay than 120 with FG, but then compare 60-70 real frames to 120 with FG.
When you already have 80+ fps you should only use FG if it won't reach your monitor's refresh limit, or you'll get a bit more of input delay caused by less rendered frames as it have to alternate to avoid frametime spikes.
CompleteGlobalSaturation
Member
Yes - 120Hz G-Sync display.
Utherellus
Member
My thoughts exactly. That game is seriously VRAM hungry. I've never ever been worried about vram in games with my 4070, it was just never full.
In Indiana Jones, vram bottlenecked me even on 1080p. Bizarre experience.
TrebleShot
Member
Am I losing touch here, I have the money and ability to get a 5090 but the only reason so far legit seems to be based around the physical size of the card?
Also do we expect there to be a notable uptick in perf on things like the new LG UW (5k)
Also do we expect there to be a notable uptick in perf on things like the new LG UW (5k)
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Its the usual gen on gen uptick. ~30%
Assuming you already have a 4080+ class card, you likely dont need to upgrade.
Follow the usual logic of skipping a generation so you can "feel" the upgrade.
Gen on gen is rarely worth it outside of braging rights.
If you are building fresh, then obviously go for what you wallet allows.
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TrebleShot
Member
Yeah I am on a 4090, but was considering it on the new screens. Usually like maxing out fps on my displays. For instance 120hz LG C2 as a monitor, 4K 120hz is possible on most games with some upscaling.Its the usual gen on gen uptick. ~30%
Assuming you already have a 4080+ class card, you likely dont need to upgrade.
Follow the usual logic of skipping a generation so you can "feel" the upgrade.
Gen on gen is rarely worth it outside of braging rights.
If you are building fresh, then obviously go for what you wallet allows.
The new monitors are 165hz 5k so imagine it will be difficult to do that with new games, but maybe with frame gen?
Thebonehead
Gold Member
Mouse and keyboard or controller?
Can remember controller felt gloopy compared to m+kB last time I tried it. It definitely felt laggy via controller.
A bit like the reverse of tlou1 on pc when it came out. Controller was ultra smooth but m+kb was a stuttery mess.
CompleteGlobalSaturation
Member
Controller. I agree; M/KB combo feels much more responsive than controllers overall. Too bad I hate using a M/KB for games.
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Magic Carpet
Gold Member
My 4070 will now get me a few more months.
Waiting for the reviews of the 5000 series.
Waiting for the reviews of the 5000 series.
KuraiShidosha
Member
Not even remotely close to the same thing. ADDING input lag vs without is a worsening of what came before whereas moving to texture based geometry mapping improves image quality while costing significantly less performance vs pure polygon count boosts to match quality.
DirtInUrEye
Member
I'd still rather just lock to 60 real frames than ever choose a pretend 120 with extra input lag. I just don't get the appeal.
People say, "well FG is really nice if you're coming from higher base fps". Like 80 or 90? Both of those feel much more pleasing natively than double phoney digits of it.
I say this as someone with a 4000 series card.
People say, "well FG is really nice if you're coming from higher base fps". Like 80 or 90? Both of those feel much more pleasing natively than double phoney digits of it.
I say this as someone with a 4000 series card.
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nemiroff
Gold Member
Yeah.. It's the same song and dance every time a new tech is introduced. Some people have absolutely no vision. Supposedly MLFG is the same as the interpolation that TVs did back in the days.. It's so dumb it beggars belief.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
How much faster is it compared to this:
New Lossless Scaling 2.9 update introduces 3x Frame Interpolation
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/993090/view/4145080305033108761 Introducing the X3 frame generation mode. LSFG 2.1 can now generate two intermediate frames, effectively tripling the framerate. X3 has increased GPU load by approximately 1.7 times compared to X2 mode. At the same time...
?
Safe to say it is significantly faster, with better image quality, and much lower latency.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Now look at them console-bros, that's the way you do it
You play at 4K/60fps on the TV
That ain't workin', that's the way you do it
Performance for nothing and your frames for free
Now that ain't workin', that's the way you do it
Lemme tell ya, them fat guys ain't dumb
Maybe get an extra ms on your little finger
Maybe get an artifact on your hair
We got to install our own disc drives, vertical stands deliveries
We got to pay to play online, we got to wait these pro patches to come
See the little pcbro with the steam deck and the rgb lights
Yeah, buddy, that's his own chair
That little pcbro got his own 5090
That little pcbro, he's a millionaire
etc etc
You play at 4K/60fps on the TV
That ain't workin', that's the way you do it
Performance for nothing and your frames for free
Now that ain't workin', that's the way you do it
Lemme tell ya, them fat guys ain't dumb
Maybe get an extra ms on your little finger
Maybe get an artifact on your hair
We got to install our own disc drives, vertical stands deliveries
We got to pay to play online, we got to wait these pro patches to come
See the little pcbro with the steam deck and the rgb lights
Yeah, buddy, that's his own chair
That little pcbro got his own 5090
That little pcbro, he's a millionaire
etc etc
proandrad
Member
Are so also seeing frame judder? I would assume you would if you are capping your frames. The generated frames wouldn’t be able to be evenly distributed between the real frames, any time your base framerate fluctuates. I think you have to uncap your framerate to see the ideal results. It also could be dropping your base frame rate to 60 and doubling it to match the 120 cap you have, that could explain the increase input lag.
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llien
Banned
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analog_future
Resident Crybaby
Well I think that settles it for me. Will stick with my 4090 and wait until the 6000 series to upgrade.
buenoblue
Member
You real FPS is exactly half of what current frame gen gives you. So if you lock your fps to a 120hz monitor, your real frame rate, and your input lag will be 60fps/Hz. That's why 90fps feels so much better.
Frame gen only really makes sense to me if your struggling to hit 60fps or you have a really high refresh display. There is a cost to frame gen and you don't get double the FPS you get without it.
For instance I'm playing Hogwarts legacy on a 4070 ti with dllss on 4k quality maxed out with no ray tracing. Without frame gen I get 65 to 70 FPS but it can drop into the 50s. This doesn't seem that smooth even with gsync.
If I use frame gen I get average 105 FPS with drops to the 90s. This seems much much smoother. But obviously my input lag is akin to playing 53-to 45fps. Input lag doesn't feel that bad playing a single player game with a controller, but it doesn't feel like 100fps lag at all.
This is on a 120hz screen btw.
buenoblue
Member
llien
Banned
Where is your "challenge accepted" attitude, citizen?Haha I wanted to try this but Samsung game motion plus is disabled @120hz
Need a game that card runs at below 30fps.
Then use this:
New Lossless Scaling 2.9 update introduces 3x Frame Interpolation
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/993090/view/4145080305033108761 Introducing the X3 frame generation mode. LSFG 2.1 can now generate two intermediate frames, effectively tripling the framerate. X3 has increased GPU load by approximately 1.7 times compared to X2 mode. At the same time...
in combination of DLSS FG.
And than let Samsung generate frames on top. (this was available on TVs for ages, by the way)
Results should be epic.
Zathalus
Member
It’s only semi useful for 30-60 fps interpolation. Don’t expect miracles though, latency does make a large jump and you do pick up on some graphical issues. Just like you shouldn’t expect your TVs built in upscaling to match DLSS/XeSS/PSSR you shouldn’t expect it to replace frame generation.Haha I wanted to try this but Samsung game motion plus is disabled @120hz
buenoblue
Member
So for a laugh I ran elden ring at 30fps then used Samsung game motion plus, then added dlss frame gen on top...then ran lossless scaling 20x on top of thatWhere is your "challenge accepted" attitude, citizen?
Need a game that card runs at below 30fps.
Then use this:
New Lossless Scaling 2.9 update introduces 3x Frame Interpolation
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/993090/view/4145080305033108761 Introducing the X3 frame generation mode. LSFG 2.1 can now generate two intermediate frames, effectively tripling the framerate. X3 has increased GPU load by approximately 1.7 times compared to X2 mode. At the same time...
in combination of DLSS FG.
And than let Samsung generate frames on top. (this was available on TVs for ages, by the way)
Results should be epic.
This is what I got
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