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France no longer considers Assad's departure a pre-condition to end Syrian civil war
- Thread starter AcademicSaucer
- Start date
Charles Brandon
Member
He's right. The war could very easily end when ISIS are defeated and Russia and the Syrian army clean out the other belligerent factions. That would be shit but hey ho, it's not like the west is going to be able to do much about that, realistically (and unfortunately).
At this point, Assad keeping power is a much better option than the fundamentalist opposition seizing control.
Charles Brandon
Member
Yes it is. But it's still not great. I don't suppose the region will ever be truly at peace under his rule. Having said that, there really is not too much we can do about it that wouldn't be massively counter-productive.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Fuck that's shit.
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
There are plenty of alternatives. They just all happen to be militant fundamentalist Sunni groups funded and supplied by one Sunni country or another.
What does that mean?
I think Syrians will likely have peace under Assad, because police states are usually good at enforcing order, but you're right that there's no foreseeable happy ending for that country.
I would love for the government system of the Rojava Kurds to be extended to all Syrians, but this would likely require another civil war.
As far as the Western world is concerned they might as well be ISIS :/
Complicated situations don't have simple answers sadly.
The Albatross
Member
I wonder if Putin threatened limited oil supplies to France. This shift in foreign policy is reminiscent of Sarkozy suddenly adopting Russian foreign policy shortly after coming into power, as Macron was one of the few French candidates to openly oppose Russian interests during the election (contrasted with Fillon, Melenchon, and obviously Le Pen, who were all variably in bed with Putin and his autocracy).
Don't pretend that Assad or Putin are trying to eliminate ISIS. ISIS provides both Assad and Putin with job security, they use ISIS as an excuse to kill civilians and political activists in their countries, and ISIS helps destabilize the region just enough to promote oil prices... Vital for Putin's petroeconomy.
It's worth following Russian Democracy activist Garry Kasparov on this, though this was from april, it stands today: https://twitter.com/Kasparov63/status/850098274837069825
Don't pretend that Assad or Putin are trying to eliminate ISIS. ISIS provides both Assad and Putin with job security, they use ISIS as an excuse to kill civilians and political activists in their countries, and ISIS helps destabilize the region just enough to promote oil prices... Vital for Putin's petroeconomy.
It's worth following Russian Democracy activist Garry Kasparov on this, though this was from april, it stands today: https://twitter.com/Kasparov63/status/850098274837069825
Honestly Syria is so fucked up and there isn't any way to even transition power to anyone else unless another foreign government 100% took over.
Frozenprince
Banned
Not really.
Both will be executing dissenters en masse.
One just wears a suit. Assad will make token efforts to "eleminate" ISIS but for the most part they will simply co-exist because it's better for him to have a constant belligerent.
VendettaRed07
Member
Yes lets just let the dictator complete his genocide then I guess there won't be any problems. oh.
Assad and his regime are a state terrorist group.
The country needs to be pressured to come up with someone else. Assad will not listen and cannot be bargained with.
Assad and his regime are a state terrorist group.
The country needs to be pressured to come up with someone else. Assad will not listen and cannot be bargained with.
The Albatross
Member
The National Coalition could have been able to transition to peace in Syria, but the West stood idly by while Assad and Putin stoked ISIS as an excuse to ruthlessly annihilate his political opposition. France, the US, UK, Germany, Italy, Spain, Denmark, the rest of the EU, Australia, etc., recognized The National Syrian Coalition as the rightful democratic leadership of Syria in 2012, 2013...
And then they all stood around as Putin flew bombers into the country to annihilate them under the guise of bombing ISIS.
Oh, lest we also not forget we punished Putin by being his guests at the olympics at the same time.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Will never be peace as along as Assad is in power.
Unfortunately in some fuck up case having a dictator is better for the stability of the country and the region
Look at the inferno that is libya actually
Frozenprince
Banned
Pretty much. We could have easily gotten involved in 2012 and avoided this whole mess, sure, many of them were socialists, or communists, or even islamists.
But they had a hell of a better chance at being a functional government than an autocratic dictator and his insane family.
Spaced Harrier
Member
Assad is the one who releqsed captured Isis members in the country to counter act the rebellion .
And ended up with deaths if the country under Isis control.
The mental health of much of whats left of the young adults men in Syria must be so fucked it's hard to see any stable future.
And ended up with deaths if the country under Isis control.
The mental health of much of whats left of the young adults men in Syria must be so fucked it's hard to see any stable future.
Trumplestiltskin
Banned
No, not really, no.
As Libya has shown, you can be as "legitimate" as possible but if you don't have any muscle then there's going to be warlordism and general anarchy until someone can impose order.
There's not going to be some western-compliant, liberal, tolerant faction that somehow also has the brutality to clear everyone else out. And if other countries had to occupy in order to install that leadership, they'd be viewed, rightfully, as foreign-imposed puppets.
I understand. I meant current state. Like literally today it's not possible. The ship sailed a long time ago
AcademicSaucer
Member
Yeah, its not an easy solution, one would hope that Assad could be eventually replaced in a way that doesnt throw the country into chaos tho, because its clear that Assad its not the long term solution.
CrocMother
Banned
What is the impetus for him coming out and saying this publicly right now?
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
What I'm hearing is that we need a massive influx of alternative energies to crash the oil market and bury it six feet under, so we can break the oil stranglehold.
I'm okay with that!
bonesmccoy
Banned
Good. Maybe this war can end.
US Senate voting on sanctions that affect EU/RUS businesses. Turns out jeopardizing energy deals challenges alliances, not to mention FRA was selling warships to RUS not too long ago
Hephaestus
Member
As long as your also okay with countries with hundreds of millions of people armed to the teeth with nothing to lose striking out once oil completely crashes.
Even here in Canada I know way too many people more than willing to go "postal" once oil dries up and they cant pay their mortgage.
I hope the lot of you realize that this does nothing, not as long as Turkey and the Gulf States do not want it. Also, even at the cost of more lives, I do not agree with letting someone who tortured and kill others rule just to end it quicker. I also doubt the rebels will accept anything with Assad still being leader.
King Tubby
Member
Who is "we", and why do "we" have a stake in this? If you're referring to the West/USA, why take out Assad if there's no concrete plan for what comes after or any idea if it'll even be better than what there is now?
As far as I'm concerned the US should only have ever been focused on taking out ISIS. Humanitarian dictator-hunting has not and will not work, especially with no appetite for investing in the arduous process of actually rebuilding the country. It's not our fight.
Probably when he dies of a cancer/old age etc..anyway who would replace him within his government?
Assad isn't exporting the evil ideology that's been killing people left and right throughout Europe. We have already enough problems in France and the attacks won't stop for years and years even after ISIS is defeated. We have to focus on our priorities.
I'm glad we now have a president who is a pragmatic and looks at the bigger picture. We have homegrown terrorists and radicals numbered in the thousands. At this rate, we'll still have people blowing themselves up in the middle of paris in 20 years.
Except he partially encourages it and especially its export, by treating it as a boogeyman that only he can excise. It's as others have said, Al Qaeda and then ISIS can be fuel for whatever engine he wants to oppress his people with. It's not going to do a lick of good for Europe, for example.
I don't care about al qaeda or isis. Isis will eventually disappear. Wahabism and its takfirist offshoot won't.
Assas didn't radicalize thousands of young french muslims.
Assad is a murederous tyran who killed tens of thousands of innocent people just like countless tyrans before him. In the grand scheme of things he's a short term problem. Capable of dealing a massive amount of damage yes but he won't be there for long. Also his nefarious acts are limited to syria. He's not a threat to anyone else except his own people.
I agree with you. I'm just pointing out that Assad does in fact have a connection to the exported ideas of ISIS and co., and in fact his oppression has fueled their expansion and dilution into the west.