StreetsofBeige
Member
Believe it or not DF, Africa isnt only Black people no matter what you think the demographics of Africa are.
Marvel Considers Recasting Black Panther
- Thread starter bitbydeath
- Start date
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Odin, Thor and the rest were immediately removed from Norse Mythology In the MCU once they were seen as aliens ... Powerful but still aliens. Not gods.
So Heimdall presenting as black makes sense if he wasn't on Earth during Odin's time there (hiding the Tesseract in Tønsberg and freeing the people from The Frost Giants). In the world of the MCU, it makes sense given what we've been shown.
MCU Asgard is no more connected to Norse Mythology than belief in Bast is connected to American South African-Americans.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
All over a joke rumor of casting Ryan Gosling as the next BP. LoL! Some did take this seriously.
Fake
Member
Liberal people do what liberal people love to do?
You know that, right? They had found the gold pot. Want to change the race/sex of any character? Simple, just make an alternative dimension and boom, you can change whatever you want from the character.
Thats why this 'rumor' is not so wrong. I mean, they asked for this. In the comics there are indeed a white man Black Panther, but from another dimension.
Is there a movie/game there that is still not using the 'from another dimension' theory?
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Yeah the current elseworlds tale is about T'Challa's illegitimate son with a white American woman who hates him... A villain.
But you do know why BP was a hit with black audiences, right? And why the movie garnered 1.3 billion worldwide, right?
StreetsofBeige
Member
Probably because a lot of them (like you) cherry pick Black focused media as personal favs instead of being more open minded and enjoying media that can cover anyone. You getting mad there might be one white dude in the BP universe is hilarious. Relax DF, it's comic book with some writer sitting at a desk probably half stoned all day writing fiction.
My fav sports I follow are hockey, NBA and MLB. Hockey is almost all white guys, NBA almost all black guys, and MLB is a big mix of white, black, latino and some asians from Korea or Japan. Who the hell cares. As long as it's fun to watch, who cares what the demographic make up of the teams are.
Youre the guy always complaining about diversity and politics on GAF. So be more open minded. If BP has a single white guy who cares.
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A super villain using his wierd math harmonic frequency thing would be cool.
Give Terrance Howard another shot lol
His catch phrase could be "1x1 equals MY FIST!"
I'll be honest, not enthusiastic about the man in real life, but I still think he was the better war machine.A super villain using his wierd math harmonic frequency thing would be cool.
His catch phrase could be "1x1 equals MY FIST!"
kpopSuperstar
Member
Did you just say MCU Thor and Odin is not connected to the mythology because they are aliens?
Be right back, im just gonna write a story where MLK is an alien and white, and fought for white rights, because context of characters doesnt mean shit if you make them aliens.
Black america is gonna love my story i think. Gonna go over real well.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Doom85
Member
But you still want to explain yourself why with all the many, MANY changes that the movies made to Norse mythology, it's the race so many of the people who are complaining like you were focused on?
Don't think I didn't notice you "conveniently" didn't address that part of my post…..
You're really comparing a fictional deity to MARTIN LUTHER KING JR., a real man who fought to save people facing real issues and was killed for his actions for real? You legitimately think these two are on the same level?
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
But you still want to explain yourself why with all the many, MANY changes that the movies made to Norse mythology, it's the race so many of the people who are complaining like you were focused on?
Don't think I didn't notice you "conveniently" didn't address that part of my post…..
You're really comparing a fictional deity to MARTIN LUTHER KING JR., a real man who fought to save people facing real issues and was killed for his actions for real? You legitimately think these two are on the same level?
It's always the go-to when they don't have a good argument.
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
As
Doom85
and
DeafTourette
have pointed out, the big flaw with this is that MLK was a real person who fought for civil rights. Making him a white alien would be crass and offensive. What you could have said is imagine Marvel introduced the Orishas who are the Gods of the West African Yourba religion. Then they decided in their own version that these beings were actually aliens. Then went one step further and made say, Shango - who is the God of Fire, lightning, dance (as well as other aspects)- a middle age white man. Personally I think that would go down like a lead balloon and be called out even if it isn't a real historical person. Anyway it's a better example than MLK ( No offense to you, but why do people always try and say "lets race swap MLK"? So bizarre and really lacks creativity)
Anyway, slightly off-topic, but any media featuring the Orishas would be pretty epic.
Doom85
Member
The sequel made 860 million, but the first film, which did 1.3 billion, had the benefit of leading into Infinity War, both it and Thor Ragnarok received a big boost from that. That isn't to say without Infinity War existing that the first BP movie still wouldn't have made more than the second, but the gap between the two wouldn't be as big.
So interest is still clearly there.
Doom85
Member
That could work, but remember, the second film ended with Nakia revealing she had become pregnant with and given a birth to a child and named him T'Challa after his father. I could see the events of Avengers: Secret Wars doing some timey-wimey dimensional stuff and having T'Challa Jr. and Nakia get transported to and live 20 years in another world during the movies, thus T'Challa's son would now be in his mid to late 20's. So they could go that route if they wished. I mean, they definitely didn't have T'Challa's son have the same name as his father just fo the hell of it, I'm sure they used that as a "if we want to do something with this" option.
Empire Strikes Back did something similar with Yoda's "there is another" line as Lucas had no idea who that was referring to but because initially they planned on continuously going up to Episode 9 without stopping, they put that line in there in case Mark Hamill wanted out of the series before they finished and if so they could bring in a new actor as a new lead and reveal he or she is who Yoda was referring to, but then they decided to make it a trilogy instead for the time being so they just decided to make the "another" refer to Leia.
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
Yeah. That could work, but I do like the idea of MBJ coming back.
Slightly off-topic, but didn't the EU and Disney fuck up this line from Yoda. IIRC, Yoda would have been referring to Leia (confirmed to be Luke's sister in Jedi), but really at the timeline of Empire there were a few Jedi knocking around. You'll probably know more than me. When I watched the OT as a kid, in my mind the only living Jedi at the end was Luke, with Leia a possible Jedi as she was Luke's sister. Then the EU and Disney came along and there were actually a lot of them around.
Doom85
Member
I can't claim to know all the Star Wars shows, but I'm pretty sure of all the other Jedi or Light Side Force users still alive at that time, Yoda wouldn't know they existed necessarily. Remember, he didn't reach out to Luke himself, Obi-Wan's ghost had to guide Luke to Dagobah, so that indicates while Yoda knew Luke was alive, he couldn't just know where he was. I mean, if it was that easy to sense those with good Force sensitivity, someone with the massive potential that Anakin had would have been discovered well before Qui-Gon and the others found him in Episode 1.
Besides, Luke and Leia (and Vader and Palpatine) definitely would never have been the only Force-sensitive people in the entire Galaxy at that time, there's too many planets and too many people for that to be the case especially as 19 years had passed since Episode 3 to the time of Episode 4. I know Vader and his forces did their best to hunt down Force sensitive individuals, but there would be far too much ground for them to cover in an entire Galaxy for them to believably make sure they stayed wiped out. It's like mutation in X-men, even if one killed all the mutants at once, more new ones would just be born over time afterwards.
Mind you, Lucas himself confirmed that the Jedi had unintentionally limited their members. They focused on finding those with more blatantly obvious Force sensitivity, but there were significantly more people out there who still had a smaller level of Force sensitivity and could learn to use the Force even if they might not reach the full potential as those found and recruited by the Jedi. It was another reason the Jedi fell more easily due to Palpatine, they had unnecessarily handicapped themselves by keeping their focus on those with higher potential and thus limiting their numbers. Lucas never got time to explore this in the movies, but to my understanding, this is delved into in the new Disney EU.
I'm merely talking about how the "there was another" line was originally conceived. When they decided to make Episode 6, they decided to make the line refer to Leia as well as make her Luke's sister. The original trilogy was not as planned out as many assume (in fact, Lucas admitted as much), in fact if they had gone continuously to 9, Luke would have defeated Vader in 6, but not met the Emperor until the films after that. Han was going to die originally in 6 (and even Harrison Ford pushed for this, and his attitude about Han afterwards means most reasonably suspect he only agreed to be in Episode 7 in a full role and nothing more after that, he much prefers playing characters like Indy and Deckard), the Falcon was going to be destroyed at one point in 6 (yet they keep Han's line in the film about him worried he won't see the Falcon again as he prepares for the Endor mission), and so forth.
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
Eh. It did well in the box office, sure. It was destined to. But these comic movies live and die by potential.
All I remember from this film were people suggesting the franchise was dead, how stupid the take on Namor and his people were, how poorly received Shuri as BP was by the general audience, etc.
If Marvel were to release a BP 3, I don't think it's sensational to guess it would perform far worse than BP 2.
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Lunarorbit
Member
Pretty sure with his antics over the years he's anti vaccine. Not sure a shot is gonna work on him
Give Terrance Howard another shot lol
calico
Member
I mean that the status quo policies of Wakanda have a huge amount of overlap with MAGA, being isolationist, protectionist, anti-immigration and embracing expressions of national pride and exceptionalism.
If you swap all of the black people in Wakanda for white people -and set aside that the movie would not be allowed to be made, at least with the nation presented in a positive light- you would be depicting a nation which is a more extreme MAGA supporter's wet dream.
Doom85
Member
While by any reasonable definition this discussion has been political up to this point, I've definitely seen enough to know we shouldn't be bringing in modern political groups into this discussion. It's one thing to discuss, for example, MLK Jr. and his stance on civil rights as that's a part of history, but discussing modern and active political groups and movements is generally not allowed here to my understanding,
Just saying, regardless of our beef with each other, I don't want you to get into an easily avoidable warning from the mods, so let's keep modern and active political groups and figures out of the discussion, please.
Doom85
Member
Black Panther: Wakanda Forever | Rotten Tomatoes
Discover reviews, ratings, and trailers for Black Panther: Wakanda Forever on Rotten Tomatoes. Stay updated with critic and audience scores today!
www.rottentomatoes.com
93 audience rating (I trust this rating more than other sites since A) it requires a ticket sale to put in a rating, so only people who actually saw the film can vote, and B) certain other sites like IMDb I tend to find have extemists on both side of liking and disliking a film, so there's a suspicious amount of 1's and 10's that likely fucks up the rating to reflect what the general consensus actually is).
I don't know why one would say the franchise was dead, like I said, it still did really good at the box office, especially considering Ant-man 3 followed it and did quite worse in comparison. Namor is inaccurate in some elements to his comic book character, but I felt the version we got worked better for the type of film it was, the arrogant douchebag of the comic wouldn't have quite worked here (and even then, the MCU Namor does get pretty ruthless at times), also I liked that it was the film where the villain still basically got mostly what he wanted. And given the audience rating and she is the lead, I would say most accepted Shuri even if they prefer T'Challa.
And remember, the 3rd film is going to be bringing in one of the GOATs:
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BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
Black Panther: Wakanda Forever | Rotten Tomatoes
Discover reviews, ratings, and trailers for Black Panther: Wakanda Forever on Rotten Tomatoes. Stay updated with critic and audience scores today!
93 audience rating (I trust this rating more than other sites since A) it requires a ticket sale to put in a rating, son only people who actually saw the film can vote, and B) certain other sites like IMDb I tend to find have extemists on both side of liking and disliking a film, so there's a suspicious amount of 1's and 10's that likely fucks up the rating to reflect what the general consensus actually is).
I don't know why one would say the franchise was dead, like I said, it still did really good at the box office, especially considering Ant-man 3 followed it and did quite worse in comparison. Namor is inaccurate in some elements to his comic book character, but I felt the version we got worked better for the type of film it was, the arrogant douchebag of the comic wouldn't have quite worked here (and even then, the MCU Namor does get pretty ruthless at times), also I liked that it was the film where the villain still basically got mostly what he wanted. And given the audience rating and she is the lead, I would say most accepted Shuri even if they prefer T'Challa.
I wish I had your enthusiasm. I will see it opening weekend because I'm a fan. But my hopes for it are muted.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
I do think they'll have a new T'Challa... Who will play him is anyone's guess. I would choose Aldis Hodge (or even his brother) and the new T'Challa. Both can do pretty good "African" accents and Aldis can also move with regalia...
So a new T'challa as in Bosemans character "reborn" or just his kid, magically aged? Or a multiverse T'challa?
Personally I don't think the MCU T'challa had a distinct enough personality to merit jumping through hoops to bring that specific person, now represented by a new actor, back. They DO need a charismatic actor with real screen presence though. I feel like Coogler is gonna work MBJ back in somehow, I think that is the only real viable path for them.
Personally I don't think the MCU T'challa had a distinct enough personality to merit jumping through hoops to bring that specific person, now represented by a new actor, back. They DO need a charismatic actor with real screen presence though. I feel like Coogler is gonna work MBJ back in somehow, I think that is the only real viable path for them.
kpopSuperstar
Member
I knew this was gonna be the response.
Why does it matter if he was real? the alien version of him wont be. Its not the same guy.
Answer that and consider why it matters and you should see the issue.
kpopSuperstar
Member
Because its a mythology built for europeans, its our thing.But you still want to explain yourself why with all the many, MANY changes that the movies made to Norse mythology, it's the race so many of the people who are complaining like you were focused on?
Don't think I didn't notice you "conveniently" didn't address that part of my post…..
You're really comparing a fictional deity to MARTIN LUTHER KING JR., a real man who fought to save people facing real issues and was killed for his actions for real? You legitimately think these two are on the same level?
If you are gonna portray it, you need to use europeans.
Its not a rinky dink story, its a mythology yet also a religion that some still follow.
If i make mlk an alien, and change some thing, its not gonna be the same story. il just call him martin larry king. problem solved.
kpopSuperstar
Member
MLK is well know beyond Americas borders, that is all.As
What you could have said is imagine Marvel introduced the Orishas who are the Gods of the West African Yourba religion. Then they decided in their own version that these beings were actually aliens. Then went one step further and made say, Shango - who is the God of Fire, lightning, dance (as well as other aspects)- a middle age white man. Personally I think that would go down like a lead balloon and be called out even if it isn't a real historical person. Anyway it's a better example than MLK ( No offense to you, but why do people always try and say "lets race swap MLK"? So bizarre and really lacks creativity)
Anyway, slightly off-topic, but any media featuring the Orishas would be pretty epic.
Hamilton was crass and offensive as well, yet still allowed.
The guy who made that actually tried to do the same with a black figure and was bashed for it. Ironically.
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
But he isn't a figure from mythology. He was a civil rights activist. Making him white wouldn't even make sense.
Not sure what you mean with Hamilton.
GateofD
Member
I think he's typecast as warmonger or whatever. Don't see him as the pious black partner role. Not sure which black actor would fill the shoes. All my favorite black actors are old
archangelmorph
Gold Member
Black Panther 3: Broke Black Mountain
Edit:
Seriously though; get Denzel's son on the bench press for a year to get him swole and give him a shot.
Very strong actor, proven he can carry a movie and could likely pull off the pious regal leader well.
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lughnasadh123
Member
I'll happily take an older BP with Idris Elba over damn near anyone right now.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
MLK isn't ancient history. Maybe you're too young to know this but many people who knew him are still alive. Many people in the Civil Rights Movement are still alive. Ruby Bridges is 70 yrs old this year.
Your most recent posts are so weird.
Hard disagree. Both TENET and that robot movie suffered for his flat low energy style of acting. Not sure he can really be menacing (Denzel can do that with ease). He probably just needs more time but I don't think he could carry this role.
kpopSuperstar
Member
Hamilton, the show where they racecast the founding fathers.
Making Heimdal african makes as much sense as making Noah chinese.
Stories belong to the people that they are made and built for. Most stories are more ambigious, but not religions and mythologies, thats too tied to the native cultures, because they are tied to thousands of years of history.
kpopSuperstar
Member
This response is kinda weird too, I never said he was ancient history.
What I was getting at, is that MLK is tied to black america because of how people view him. Hes important to people. For you, you don't care about some norse mythology, but for people who belong to that culture, its our thing.
It reminds me of the assassins creed shadows thing, we might not care about some foreign samurai, but its because we dont understand that for japanese, samurai is only other japanese. its their thing.
Random stories is different, but myths are culture, its deep rooted.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
They cast Hamilton (Lin Manuel Miranda, a brown man, created the play and made the casting rules) that way because it turns the history of, yes, founding fathers but also, slave holders on its head. And using hip-hop and R&B, culturally tied to black and brown communities, to further cement the divide between the US and King George who uses classic musical music. The intent is to say that the US is as much our country as the Founding Fathers.
And, again, the Asgardians are aliens. They can look however they want as they're obviously modeled after Not Norse gods. They don't even SPEAK Norse in their daily lives. They talk more like Shakespeare, at least in the first and, partially, second films. And all the shot callers at Marvel are white ... You can't blame any other race for that. WHITE people decided that Heimdall and the rest of the Asgardians were like the human rainbow and not homogeneous like the Skrulls.
You can't seem to get that and your constant pushback is ... Weird.
I would, however, BALK at a black Aragorn or Asian or Indigenous Gandalf as LOTR is meant to be an olde British legend as he felt England lacked one (I don't think he considered King Arthur or Robin Hood old enough). And the Kingdom of Rohan were obviously modeled after Norse history. And that's how it should stay.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Dr. King was more than just a figure in America's history. He helped us get the right to vote. He helped END American Apartheid (Jim Crow) and he inspired others to take up the fight for equal rights, even today. Shoot, because of him and his contemporaries, Loving v Virgina never would have happened.
Dr. King is not just important to black people, he's important to the whole country!
And about Yasuke... It was the Japanese who called him a Samurai in the first place back in the 1960s. It isn't some modern idea.
What if you had a white MLK in the race swapped version of White Man's Burden? I actually gotta watch this one again just to see how well it holds up. I recall the doll scene as being particularly illuminating when flipped around. So a white MLK would be in a similar vein as POC founding fathers in Hamilton. Maybe white MLK can sing rock operas
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Ok. I explained what the founding fathers "race swap" was intended to convey. What would a race swapped MLK convey or represent? What would be the end game reason. Or anyone? Sitting Bull? Che Guevara? Bruce Lee?
calico
Member
The actual intent is to rewrite history and diminish achievements by white people and societies.
If you want some mental gymnastic reason like your Hamilton one to ostensibly justify a race swap of MLK it is particularly easy, because we can just point to his own message about the content of one's character being what matters and say 'what better way to convey MLK's message coming to fruition than by having him portrayed by a non-black actor?'
I believe some university production actually attempted this using reasoning along those lines, but of course they were immediately forced to stop because they wildly underestimated the power of the double standard.
If you want some mental gymnastic reason like your Hamilton one to ostensibly justify a race swap of MLK it is particularly easy, because we can just point to his own message about the content of one's character being what matters and say 'what better way to convey MLK's message coming to fruition than by having him portrayed by a non-black actor?'
I believe some university production actually attempted this using reasoning along those lines, but of course they were immediately forced to stop because they wildly underestimated the power of the double standard.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
That's clever
And it's not manufactured reason NOR rewriting history since EVERYONE knows the founding fathers were white. Those were Miranda's words...
"This is a story about America then, told by America now, and we want to eliminate any distance. Our story should look the way our country looks. Then we found the best people to embody these parts. I think it's a very powerful statement without having to be a statement,"
It's ONE play!
It isn't to diminish white people's accomplishments. We live in the US where it's still alright to be white all day every day and twice on Sundays.
But you'd remiss to think the flavor of America would still be what it is if there were no black and brown people who helped shape it to what it is.
And Dr. King's message of "content of character" was more for white ears than black and brown, especially since we weren't seen as worthy of respect or the benefit of the doubt. Think about it, who were the ones being discriminated against legally and personally under a system that gave THE DISCRIMINATORS the benefit of the doubt AND wide autonomy? Apartheid was nationwide, not just in The South. Yes, even in California.
By making MLK "white", the message would be muddled and lost because MLK is tied to being black... His upbringing, his life experiences, etc. Having a "white" MLK would look like "the white savior", removed from the black experience that shaped the movement, removed from the orator who spoke of FAR more than what you and others are reducing him to by saying it's the same story if he was "white".
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
Wow. I agree. That's a bit messed up. Is this the Disney production?
I agree that it is a double standard. Race swap a non-white historical figure for a white actor and it's racist. Rightly so as well I may add.
Race swap a white historical figure for a non-white actor and it's brave and progressive.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
4 pages of nonsense started by an obvious troll rumour isn't worth it guys
