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[Mael]

Why are they capping the amount? Everyone should pay their fair taxes. If that kills off sports clubs, then so be it.

Politicians like to be elected and reelected you know.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I know they play in the French league, but I assumed Monaco wouldn't be behest to the tax laws of France. Their stadium (and therefore presumably offices) actually are in Monaco.

 

[Mael]

I know they play in the French league, but I assumed Monaco wouldn't be behest to the tax laws of France. Their stadium (and therefore presumably offices) actually are in Monaco.

Unless they pass the same laws on that rock...lol

 

[Deleted member 1235]

Do you seriously not understand how progressive tax systems work?

nobody does. seriously. if I have to listen to my colleague talk about how he gets '52% of his income taken from him' by the government because he hits the top tax bracket....

 

[Restrain This]

People have already explained the progressive taxation thing, but people earning >1mil per year are not exactly toiling away in mineshafts. Progressive taxation already exists at 50% or more for the highest bracket in most countries, so the principle is already in place. It's just whether you're drawing the line at 50, 60, or 75 in this case that is the difference, and that's ultimately an arbitrary one for what is acceptable vs not acceptable.

Well, it is arbitrary in the sense that there isn't a clear amount of earned income that one should be morally 'entitled' to keep. That is ultimately a matter of personal taste that will differ widely from person-to-person. Except in the case of a radical libertarian or socialist who would draw their respective line at 0% or 100%, I guess.

From a utilitarian standpoint, the difference between a 50% and 75% is pretty drastic though. No way does a top marginal rate that high pass the cost-benefit test. Whatever additional revenue is earned by taking rates that high is more than offset by the lowered amount of economic growth that the tax will engender.

 

[Manabanana]

Sorry I didn't expound on my comment. Slavik81 understood my intention and was definitely more adept than me at explaining it. Obviously this would only affect people making 1M or more, but it would be a choice of working to go over 1M or taking a vacation once they reach 1M.

I know a lot of physicians who make enough money in six months and either work in a different country to avoid getting taxed a ridiculous amount after they make the cutoff or just take a vacation for half the year.

That is the exact sort of thing this legislation aims to encourage.

 

[War Peaceman]

I know they play in the French league, but I assumed Monaco wouldn't be behest to the tax laws of France. Their stadium (and therefore presumably offices) actually are in Monaco.

They changed the rules in March to say that any Ligue 1 club must be registered in France for tax purposes, if I recall. I believe they are (were?) fighting that decision.

 

[Bomber Bob]

LOL football players exempt

DIS IS YUROP

 

[Elchele]

LOL football players exempt

Ligue 1 are starting to get some attention thanks to the oil kings taking over some teams (PSG, Monaco), if they lose their stars, then the Ligue 1 would practically disappear. It makes sense to avoid taxing them with this new rate.

Surely it makes more money to keep a healthy league, than taxing players that most likely would end up leaving and killing the league.

 

[Rentahamster]

An embarrassed French government was forced to go back to the drawing board but insisted it would return with a new proposal.

Did France surrender to itself?

groundskeeperwilliequote.gif

 

[CyclopsRock]

They changed the rules in March to say that any Ligue 1 club must be registered in France for tax purposes, if I recall. I believe they are (were?) fighting that decision.

Aah, I see, thanks. I guess it makes sense but Monaco is a bit of an exception, given it's, like, a country.

 

[travisbickle]

The problem with the rich is they don't know how easy they've got it. After pulling off the biggest bait and switch in recent history and getting away with even more of the world's combined wealth, they are not even willing to take a cut on income for two years that would put them in huge favour among the public. Instead they are going to bitch and moan about being unfairly treated until the real unfairly treated in society go round to their houses, slit their throats and take their money.

 

[Ripclawe]

This is all nice but symbolic since the amount of money they will get from this won't cause a dent in its finances, but guess who gets hit the worst.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/25/france-budget-idUSL5N0HL1Q320130925

France sought on Wednesday to appease public anger over tax hikes and EU concerns over its finances with a 2014 budget bill that focuses largely on finding savings.

But while businesses will face a smaller tax burden to help boost competitiveness, households will be hit by higher taxes to help cut the deficit, a move that could hurt purchasing power.

The Socialist government's 2014 budget bill faces close scrutiny from the European Commission and EU powerhouse Germany, which have given Paris two extra years to bring the deficit in line with EU rules but want to see more reforms and a credible plan to cut spending.

French taxpayers, who have been receiving their 2012 tax bills this month, are showing signs of fatigue. Serge Grass, a retired maintenance manager and member of an association that lobbies for lower taxes, said the tax bill for him and his wife this year was 14.6% higher than the previous year, despite the fact that they earned just 8.23% more.

"I knew we would be asked to pay more," said Mr. Grass. "I didn't know it would be this much."

Mr. Hollande has sought to address the popular discontent, announcing a "fiscal pause" and acknowledging in a prime-time television interview earlier this month that the level of taxation was "becoming too much."

French officials say, however, the pause won't come in 2014. "This is a quasi-stabilization of taxation," said finance minister Pierre Moscovici.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303342104579096811335042896.html

 

[ComputerMKII]

French football clubs in strike threat over 75% tax

France’s top football clubs are threatening to go on strike in protest at the government’s plans to impose a 75 percent tax on them. Ligue 1 and 2 clubs are considering refusing to play fixtures scheduled for the weekend of October 26/27th, it emerged this week.

The biggest football clubs in France are far from happy with the prospect of having to pay a 75-percent tax on the salaries of their millionaire players, it would seem.

The UCPF (Union of Professional Football Clubs), comprising France’s top two divisions, Ligue 1 and Ligue 2, this week threatened to go on strike against the ‘super-tax.’

The union’s executive committee agreed unanimously on Tuesday to protest in some way against the tax rate, which is set to be in force for 2014 and 2015, and therefore applied to earnings for 2013 and 2014.

“Everything is possible, tensions are very high,” Bernard Caïazzo, president of St. Etienne football club told Le Journal Du Dimanche (JDD).

Strike action could even take place as quickly as next weekend, according to sources cited by JDD. A proposal for Ligue 1 and Ligue 2 clubs to boycott fixtures over the weekend of October 26th gained significant support at Tuesday’s meeting.

The UCPF is set to meet on Thursday October 24th to finalize what form their protest will take, with France’s National Assembly scheduled to debate the new tax, beginning next week.

France’s sports minister Velerie Fourneyron confirmed in September that the country’s football clubs will not be exempt from the new 75 percent super tax.

The tax, one of President François Hollande’s flagship election proposals, is included in the government’s 2014 budget, but has not yet been approved by parliament.

Under the proposal, companies will be liable to pay the 75 tax rate for the portion of employees' salaries above €1 million annually.

And despite warnings from France’s football chiefs that the French top flight would be ruined if clubs had to pay the tax, Fourneyron insisted there will be no exceptions to the rule.

“There are no special measures. Football will be affected by the tax on high incomes,” the minister told Le Figaro at the time.

“Why should clubs be exempt from this tax?” she added.

http://www.thelocal.fr/20131017/french-football-clubs-threaten-to-strike-over-75-tax

 

[stilgar]

http://www.thelocal.fr/20131017/french-football-clubs-threaten-to-strike-over-75-tax

Monace has finally found a way to win the 1er League!

 

[WARCOCK]

During Eisenhower's reign, the US had a marginal rate of 92% for the highest earners.

And what did Warren Buffett say the other day his rate was? Lower than his secretary's? 11 % or so?

The 50s were also quite possibly the most prosperous years for all Americans.

 

[remnant]

The problem with the rich is they don't know how easy they've got it. After pulling off the biggest bait and switch in recent history and getting away with even more of the world's combined wealth, they are not even willing to take a cut on income for two years that would put them in huge favour among the public. Instead they are going to bitch and moan about being unfairly treated until the real unfairly treated in society go round to their houses, slit their throats and take their money.

fucking lol.

Is this like occupy fanfic?

The 50s were also quite possibly the most prosperous years for all Americans.

right, that is the only difference between then and now. A tax rate no one paid.

French taxpayers, who have been receiving their 2012 tax bills this month, are showing signs of fatigue. Serge Grass, a retired maintenance manager and member of an association that lobbies for lower taxes, said the tax bill for him and his wife this year was 14.6% higher than the previous year, despite the fact that they earned just 8.23% more.

"I knew we would be asked to pay more," said Mr. Grass. "I didn't know it would be this much."

Mr. Hollande has sought to address the popular discontent, announcing a "fiscal pause" and acknowledging in a prime-time television interview earlier this month that the level of taxation was "becoming too much."

French officials say, however, the pause won't come in 2014. "This is a quasi-stabilization of taxation," said finance minister Pierre Moscovici.

Fucking lol. This is perfect

 

[WARCOCK]

fucking lol.

Is this like occupy fanfic?

right, that is the only difference between then and now. A tax rate no one paid.

Fucking lol. This is perfect

http://www.stanford.edu/class/polisci120a/immigration/Federal Tax Brackets.pdf

or

http://taxfoundation.org/article/us...-2013-nominal-and-inflation-adjusted-brackets

Adjust for inflation, round x2.84. Compare. FUCKING LOL!

 

[WJD]

Otherwise known as: the Zlatan exception.

 

[General Choomin]

Wait wait is 14.6% higher on the tax rate or on the amount they earn? Because if it's a 14.6% increase in what they currently pay then the increase in wages is still significantly more then what he's bitching about.

 

[Milchjon]

http://www.thelocal.fr/20131017/french-football-clubs-threaten-to-strike-over-75-tax

At least something good's coming out of this.

 

[Ripclawe]

Originally Posted by perryfarrell

During Eisenhower's reign, the US had a marginal rate of 92% for the highest earners.

And what did Warren Buffett say the other day his rate was? Lower than his secretary's? 11 % or so?

There were loopholes, deductions and tons of ways to drop that marginal rate down plus have income come to you in other ways to get out of taxes.

Buffett has been pulling that populist bullshit claim because he gets perks and compensation in other ways.

Warren Buffett’s total compensation declined 14 percent last year to $423,923 as Berkshire Hathaway spent less on his security, but his salary remained unchanged at $100,000.

Buffett’s salary for leading Berkshire as chairman and chief executive hasn’t changed in more than 25 years. The $323,923 for security was the only other element of Buffett’s 2012 compensation because the billionaire forgoes typical executive perks.

Buffett again paid Berkshire $50,000 to reimburse the Omaha-based company for any personal costs.

The proxy statement Berkshire mailed to shareholders this week also showed that Chief Financial Officer Marc Hamburg is paid significantly more than Buffett. Hamburg’s compensation grew 6 percent to just over $1 million from 2011′s $974,750.

Buffett earns mostly from capital gains like Mitt Romney. His secretary earns at least double his "salary" If you think Buffett is living off of a less than 500,000 compensation, you would be wrong.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Wait wait is 14.6% higher on the tax rate or on the amount they earn? Because if it's a 14.6% increase in what they currently pay then the increase in wages is still significantly more then what he's bitching about.

Well, we don't really know how significant it is without further information (it depends what his ratio between earnings and taxation are, and it depends on what you consider "significant"), but either way, are you really asking why he's bitching that his work is earning him less and less money the more he does? The fact his income has gone up in absolute terms doesn't mean you should be unequivocally happy about how much money is taken from you.

 

[General Choomin]

Well, we don't really know how significant it is without further information (it depends what his ratio between earnings and taxation are, and it depends on what you consider "significant"), but either way, are you really asking why he's bitching that his work is earning him less and less money the more he does? The fact his income has gone up in absolute terms doesn't mean you should be unequivocally happy about how much money is taken from you.

Then why bring it up unless they are being disingenuous to paint a bad picture? If they want to give one impression even though they neglect to give the full context. I don't need to give him sympathy either.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Then why bring it up unless they are being disingenuous to paint a bad picture? If they want to give one impression even though they neglect to give the full context. I don't need to give him sympathy either.

Why disingenuous? You managed to come to your conclusion well enough. You're free to draw your own conclusion about whether it's fair that someone's total taxation increases at almost double the rate compared to their total income. And clearly you have. But you asked "what he's bitching about" and I think it's pretty obvious. What does your sympathy have to do with anything?

 

[travisbickle]

fucking lol.

Is this like occupy fanfic?

The occupy movement was the middle classes realising the current economic system won't actually maintain their extravagant lifestyle choices throughout their life. You should have been there but you'll realise it later when your job either doesn't exist because of tech advancements or your wage is reduced to minimum because your skill set has little value.

What I'm talking about is the real hopeless people rejected by society now finally having enough and just killing people so they can live in their house, what is actually stopping them?

 

[zero shift]

This is so pointless.

 

[CyclopsRock]

The occupy movement was the middle classes realising the current economic system won't actually maintain their extravagant lifestyle choices throughout their life. You should have been there but you'll realise it later when your job either doesn't exist because of tech advancements or your wage is reduced to minimum because your skill set has little value.

That's the good thing about failure - you can always hold the moral high-ground that you were right without having to actually do anything.

 

[travisbickle]

That's the good thing about failure - you can always hold the moral high-ground that you were right without having to actually do anything.

This doesn't make sense? I'm talking about failure of the capitalist system, it cannot hold a moral high ground?

 

[CyclopsRock]

This doesn't make sense? I'm talking about failure of the capitalist system, it cannot hold a moral high ground?

I was referring to the failure of the movement. You said " You should have been there but you'll realise it later" - well, it's easy to say that when you can never be disproved. Telling people they're wrong but they don't realise it yet it pretty moral-high-ground'y.

 

[travisbickle]

I was referring to the failure of the movement. You said " You should have been there but you'll realise it later" - well, it's easy to say that when you can never be disproved. Telling people they're wrong but they don't realise it yet it pretty moral-high-ground'y.

I understand now.

Although, I don't think the movement could ever succeed. It was all in vain, but the reason for its existence was people's belief that the hopeless situation they are in could be solved by lashing out at something they think is wrong.

But we don't know what is wrong. We don't understand the system enough. It is a machine, like Jaques Derrida says, and we cannot work out what it wants. It just continues to work, and grow, and work, and even if we chop of an arm (bankers) from the system it will use another part to keep working.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Aaaand strike.

French football clubs to strike over 75 percent tax

French football clubs are to strike over the government's proposed 75 percent tax rate, it was announced on Thursday. Clubs in Ligue 1 and 2 will refuse to take part in fixtures over the weekend of November 29th to December 1st in what has been described as "historic protest".

The biggest football clubs in France are far from happy with the prospect of having to pay a 75 percent tax on the salaries of their millionaire players and on Thursday announced they will go on strike.

The UCPF (Union of Professional Football Clubs), comprising France’s top two divisions, Ligue 1 and Ligue 2, had previously threatened industrial action against the ‘super-tax.’

The announcement came after the UCPF met on Thursday to finalize what form their protest will take, with France’s National Assembly scheduled to debate the new tax this week.

The president of UCPF Jean-Pierre Louvel, said: "We are involved in a historic protest and have a real determination to save football by having a weekend without games at the end of November."

The union’s executive committee agreed unanimously last week to protest in some way against the tax rate, which is set to be in force for 2014 and 2015, and therefore applied to earnings for 2013 and 2014.

France’s sports minister Velerie Fourneyron confirmed in September that the country’s football clubs would not be exempt from the new 75 percent super tax.

The tax, one of President François Hollande’s flagship election proposals, is included in the government’s 2014 budget, but has not yet been approved by parliament.

Under the proposal, companies will be liable to pay the 75 tax rate for the portion of employees' salaries above €1 million annually.

And despite warnings from France’s football chiefs that the French top flight would be ruined if clubs had to pay the tax, Fourneyron insisted there will be no exceptions to the rule.

“There are no special measures. Football will be affected by the tax on high incomes,” the minister told Le Figaro at the time.

“Why should clubs be exempt from this tax?” she added.

http://www.thelocal.fr/20131024/breaking-french-clubs-to-strike-over-75-percent-tax