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[rexor0717]

Is there a right way to throw a Cripmas party? Could they do it without bringing a bunch of black stereotypes to the table? I guess wearing the right colors for one would be a start.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

But I'm not sure I understand what is racist about it.

There are gangs that are typical considered "white gangs", ie: Neo-Nazis

Same with Latino gangs (ex: MS-13), Asians gangs (Born to Kill, Flying Dragons), etc.

Bloods and Crips are widely considered African American gangs. They are also brought up in pop culture quite often when looking for "stereotypical African American gangs". Especially in the 90s. Like white people and the Mafia.



So yeah, this was a bunch of kids parodying African American culture per usual. An unsavory part, but that's what made it more "appealing" to them. They damn sure wouldn't have a skinhead party or a Neo party.

Plus, this is freakin' SAE. They have a history of this garbage.

 

[Fenderputty]

Semantics argument. He means outrage because people are giving this so much attention. "Heated, opinionated discussion" is what you both are talking about.

.

 

[JDSN]

Tired of all that people expressing outrage at outrage, it must tbe tiring.

Is there a right way to throw a Cripmas party? Could they do it without bringing a bunch of black stereotypes to the table? I guess wearing the right colors for one would be a start.

The right way is probably going to an actual Crips party.

 

[DoktorEvil]

For once, I'd like to see a frat party making fun of the Aryan Brotherhood, of Hell's Angels, or of the IRA.

A "Cripmas" party is on some lame shit. They didn't even bother to match the colors to the Crips.

 

[biggersmaller]

As a black person, seeing that national attention is being apply here reaffirms that the majority of American society still understands that overt racism is wrong. That in itself speaks volumes to the minorities that their cultural dignity in America matters and America agrees.

It's funny that you brought up the italian gangster party idea, because it shows to me that you are unaware of the Harlem Renaissance era where there were black gangs similar to italian gangs back in the 1920s. If it were on Howard University, they don't have to pretend to be of another culture because black people have done it themselves in the similar era. Your points in your argument is a whole lotta nothin

If national coverage of this low level of insensitivity reinforces your faith in American society - then your point is well made. However, my arguments are not a whole lotta nothin. For instance, even if primarily via pop culture (Boardwalk Empire) - I am aware of the Harlem Renaissance. A Howard University frat would obviously not have to pretend to be Italians to drunkenly hold Tommy Guns and wear suits. I would never imply that. My point was that if a gathering called "This is the Godfather-themed Party" was held, I doubt it would make headlines. Again, because it shouldn't make headlines. It not newsworthy.

I don't know what the motivations of these people were to throw this pathetic party, but I think it's far less controversial than what many make of it given the information we have.

 

[Rembrandt]

I genuinely don't see what is racist about this; and I'm not trying to be obtuse.

I see young dumb white kids dressing like what they think gang member's look like and throw up what they think are gang signs. They look clueless, as they probably are.

But I'm not sure I understand what is racist about it.

That being said, I completely understand why they would be suspended, for a number of issues, so not trying to protect the fraternity here.

It's weird because black people don't throw cripmas parties or bloodoween parties or any of this stupid shit where we dress up as stereotypes for entertainment. it's a stupid idea that literally only white people (who probably have no interaction with black people) do because they think it would be funny. What's so funny about dressing up as gang, probably saying nigga a lot and living out the stereotypical ideas of black people they have, idk, I would love to know why they thought this would be a good idea. I have a great hint as to why, but I'm sure you will disagree.

If national coverage of this low level of insensitivity reinforces your faith in American society - then your point is well made. However, my arguments are not a whole lotta nothin. For instance, even if primarily via pop culture (Boardwalk Empire) - I am aware of the Harlem Renaissance. A Howard University frat would obviously not have to pretend to be Italians to drunkenly hold Tommy Guns and wear suits. I would never imply that. My point was that if a gathering called "This is the Godfather-themed Party" was held, I doubt it would make headlines. Again, because it shouldn't make headlines. It not newsworthy.

I don't know what the motivations of these people were to throw this pathetic party, but I think it's far less controversial than what many make of it given the information we have.

Probably not because that's a movie and are we really comparing dressing up like a mobster to dressing up like a gang member? I'm sure you're smart enough to think of more reasons they're different than they are similar.

It actually makes their intent for this to be a racially mocking party all the more obvious.

wow, also this.

 

[JCizzle]

For once, I'd like to see a frat party making fun of the Aryan Brotherhood, of Hell's Angels, or of the IRA.

A "Cripmas" party is on some lame shit. They didn't even bother to match the colors to the Crips.

That's so lazy they deserve to be suspended for this alone.

 

[DoktorEvil]

That's so lazy they deserve to be suspended for this alone.

It actually makes their intent for this to be a racially mocking party all the more obvious.

 

[theignoramus]

It actually makes their intent for this to be a racially mocking party all the more obvious.

bingo.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

For one, the majority of them are dressed in red when the Crips are known for being colored in blue. Some sets may use red, but the majority of Crips wear blue and most people know them for that color. See, you're right, and I'm glad we can come to an agreement: This is stereotypical and it is wrong. They're just dressing up as what, and I hate using this word, they perceive as what thugs would wear and I guess they're doing it in a Christmas theme. I'm sure these people have never seen or know actual gang members. I'm pretty sure as far as hand signs go, they're just doing random shit or stuff they found on YouTube.

Shit comes in different shades and scents but it's still shit: I get it. By the way, to even but Nazi's in the same breath as street/biker gangs is laughable. But, that's not even what I'm arguing.

You said that Crips/Bloods have elevated to pop culture status, yet you haven't really proved them being referenced by the majority in a non-problematic means.

The point of NAZIs and bikers is to illuminate a lot of people don't know what their "uniform" is besides the stereotype they know. It's not an equal comparison but to compare perceptions.

You can be in pop culture and still be problematic. Maybe pop culture isn't the correct term regarding this, let's try general information--a tidbit you will generally see referenced from time to time. However you want to term it, it still does not change the fact people know about these gangs.

 

[TRios Zen]

There are gangs that are typical considered "white gangs", ie: Neo-Nazis

...snip

So yeah, this was a bunch of kids parodying African American culture per usual. An unsavory part, but that's what made it more "appealing" to them. They damn sure wouldn't have a skinhead party or a Neo party.

Plus, this is freakin' SAE. They have a history of this garbage.

Hmmm. I don't know about any history that SAE may have and that may be an important factor here, so I apologize if that weighs heavily in the discussion.

However I don't equate gang culture with African American culture anymore than I do say the Latin Kings or Los Bandidos with Hispanic culture.

Full disclosure - while I have experienced prejudice in my life, I would not say it is something I've dealt with daily, so perhaps I am not as sensitive to it as others. In the grand scheme of things, this seems relatively meaningless to me though.

 

[biggersmaller]

Probably not because that's a movie and are we really comparing dressing up like a mobster to dressing up like a gang member? I'm sure you're smart enough to think of more reasons they're different than they are similar.

I recognize they are not 100% analogous. Similar enough as criminal organizations commonly associated with a specific race more known from their portrayal in entertainment than any modern headlines. Similar enough to illustrate my point that this doesn't warrant national coverage tantamount to the Oklahahoma bus incident (again, given the info we currently have).

 

[TRios Zen]

...What's so funny about dressing up as gang, probably saying nigga a lot and living out the stereotypical ideas of black people they have, idk, I would love to know why they thought this would be a good idea. I have a great hint as to why, but I'm sure you will disagree.

You've piqued my interest, why are you sure that I will disagree?

 

[justjohn]

Whats with these people and their obsession with black people? I get the feeling they have us on their minds 24/7.

 

[Rembrandt]

I recognize they are not 100% analogous. Similar enough to make my point that this doesn't warrant national coverage tantamount to the Oklahahoma bus incident, though (again, given the info we currently have).

not even in the slightest, unless I missed all of the social context behind words like "mobster" and the heavy stereotyping around italians (which does exist, but nowhere to the extent of black people/gang culture/the word "thug" etc). They're not at all similar in this context. People dressing up like mobsters isn't them making fun of italians or their culture nor would it give off the impression that you think a lot/all white people or italians dress/act like that. Dressing as a gang member does because the stereotype is incredibly prevalent in the media and real life. This is how they think a lot of black people act or at least how black people in the ghetto act. I know they said nigga a lot, made a lot of stereotypical black jokes probably about kool-aid and watermelon and just generally acted racist as hell in geist of it being a joke.

You've piqued my interest, why are you sure that I will disagree?

Probably has a lot to do with you saying you genuinely don't see what's racist about it.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

However I don't equate gang culture with African American culture anymore than I do say the Latin Kings or Los Bandidos with Hispanic culture.

It's not "gang culture", it's specifically Crips/Bloods. And they are still around, so I don't see why they can't be, just as those other gangs are attached to the fringes of their said cultures.

But seriously, the fact that they lazily mixed the two gangs up says more than enough about their intent with the party. It was to be "edgy" (see: dumbasses, racists).

As brought up earlier, you generally don't see black people doing this. Definitely not black college students, and there are reasons for that. Plenty of them.

 

[TRios Zen]

Probably has a lot to do with you saying you genuinely don't see what's racist about it.

Am I to understand than that if I'm not equally outraged at a particular items inherent racism, that I'm incapable of honestly discussing it?

To get back on track, the African Americans I have known, both friends and colleagues, were not in gangs. IF someone I knew made fun of gang members it is much more likely they would be making fun of latino gangs, not African American ones, so I would not automatically assume that dressing like gang members, meant dressing like African Americans.

SO we've had different life experiences, can discussion be had or not?

 

[biggersmaller]

not even in the slightest, unless I missed all of the social context behind words like "mobster" and the heavy stereotyping around italians (which does exist, but nowhere to the extent of black people/gang culture/the word "thug" etc). They're not at all similar in this context. People dressing up like mobsters isn't them making fun of italians or their culture nor would it give off the impression that you think a lot/all white people or italians dress/act like that. Dressing as a gang member does because the stereotype is incredibly prevalent in the media and real life. This is how they think a lot of black people act or at least how black people in the ghetto act. I know they said nigga a lot, made a lot of stereotypical black jokes probably about kool-aid and watermelon and just generally acted racist as hell in geist of it being a joke.

You say they are in no way similar in this context while also stating the Italian/mob stereotypes do exist - just to a lesser extent. I agree with your latter point. The similarities do exist to a lesser extent. Whether it's still similar enough to illustrate an argument is our disagreement. I'm not saying these people aren't rascist. I'm also not saying they are. I'm saying what they did was throw a very lame and racially incensitive party in an attempt to be funny. That alone does not a national conversation on race deserve.

For the record, people do still make fun of Italians regarding their next hit, Don Corleone impressions...this along with Jersey Shore, Real House Wives, ect etc

 

[Angelus Errare]

This very lame party is hardly worth national attention. If this were a Howard University frat doing a prohibition-era Italian gangster party, I don't think anyone would care - because nobody should care. I don't frankly know what their motivations or internal thoughts were when planning this minor lapse of racial sensitivity, but a serious national discussion on it is a waste of our collective energy.

What pray tell would make a prohibition era speakeasy party specifically "Italian"? It certainly wouldn't have been the dress style.

 

[DoktorEvil]

You say they are in no way similar in this context while also stating the Italian/mob stereotypes do exist - just to a lesser extent. I agree with your latter point. The similarities do exist to a lesser extent. Whether it's still similar enough to illustrate an argument is our disagreement. I'm not saying these people aren't rascist. I'm also not saying they are. I'm saying what they did was throw a very lame and racially incensitive party in an attempt to be funny. That alone does not a national conversation on race deserve.

For the record, people do still make fun of Italians regarding their next hit, Don Corleone impressions...this along with Jersey Shore, Real House Wives, ect etc

The original article was from the Associated Press. Yahoo pulled it's source from there.

If AP felt the story newsworthy, I'd point my finger to them.

I'd love to see frats get in trouble for throwing "Mafia" themed parties or "IRA" themed parties as well, but they don't. Not often enough to hit news outlets.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Am I to understand than that if I'm not equally outraged at a particular items inherent racism, that I'm incapable of honestly discussing it?

To get back on track, the African Americans I have known, both friends and colleagues, were not in gangs. IF someone I knew made fun of gang members it is much more likely they would be making fun of latino gangs, not African American ones, so I would not automatically assume that dressing like gang members, meant dressing like African Americans.

SO we've had different life experiences, can discussion be had or not?

I do have to add there's a difference between parodying gangs in general, and using it as a front to make fun of an ethnic group.

 

[fuzzyreactor]

seems like a stretch

 

[kmax]

Shit looks lame

 

[Rembrandt]

Am I to understand than that if I'm not equally outraged at a particular items inherent racism, that I'm incapable of honestly discussing it?

To get back on track, the African Americans I have known, both friends and colleagues, were not in gangs. IF someone I knew made fun of gang members it is much more likely they would be making fun of latino gangs, not African American ones, so I would not automatically assume that dressing like gang members, meant dressing like African Americans.

SO we've had different life experiences, can discussion be had or not?

nah, but if it's to the point where you genuinely don't see anything racist with it, yeah, kinda.

You say they are in no way similar in this context while also stating the Italian/mob stereotypes do exist - just to a lesser extent. I agree with your latter point. The similarities do exist to a lesser extent. Whether it's still similar enough to illustrate an argument is our disagreement. I'm not saying these people aren't rascist. I'm also not saying they are. I'm saying what they did was throw a very lame and racially incensitive party in an attempt to be funny. That alone does not a national conversation on race deserve.

For the record, people do still make fun of Italians regarding their next hit, Don Corleone impressions...this along with Jersey Shore, Real House Wives, ect etc

yeah, I'm not oblivious. stereotypes of every race exists; that doesn't mean the stereotype about asians being smart/good at math is similar to the stereotypes about black people or mexicans. But if I throw a mob party where we dress up as gangsters, are we perpetuating any true stereotypes of italians? do we have a society that looks down on wearing a suit and fedora like they do with sagging pants? like, if I wore a suit and a fedora, would one person that day assume I'm a mobster? if I sagged my pants and wore a baggy t-shirt, though, you can guarantee at least one person would assume I'm a gang member or was potentially dangerous. to completely disregard any context to what they're doing is disingenuous. that's why comparing this to people throwing a godfather party or even a biker gang party is ridiculous.

also it's hilarious to see them doing those jail poses when those have basically reached mainstream levels thanks to A$AP and people on tumblr. I catch white people doing those all the time, which is so funny and stupid.

 

[TRios Zen]

I do have to add there's a difference between parodying gangs in general, and using it as a front to make fun of an ethnic group.

How would you decide that this instance is the one, and not the other?

What I mean is, the idea behind this (let's throw a gang-themed party) was dumb. dressing the way they did, posing the way they did... equally as dumb. I get it, these kids are grade A clueless.

Does that make them racist?

 

[Delicious Waffles]

I don't understand what the point of a frat is. After all these stories recently, it just seems like a place where like minded dudes get together and act like morons. Do they contribute anything positive to a college?

 

[jamesinclair]

Hmmm. I don't know about any history that SAE may have and that may be an important factor here, so I apologize if that weighs heavily in the discussion.

It's the very first line of the OP. And yes, it plays a significant part.

Sigma Alpha Epilson brothers of University of Oklahoma (@uofoklahoma) caught on tape singing the follow chant lyrics:
ฺ
"There will never be a nigger at #SAE
There will never be a nigger at #SAE
You can hang'em from a tree,
but they'll never sign with me.
There will never be a nigger at #SAE

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1006681&highlight=sigma+alpha+epsilon

"The chant was learned by local chapter members while attending a national leadership cruise sponsored by by the national SAE organizations four years ago," Boren wrote in a letter to the SAE national organization.

"While there is no indication that the chant was part of the formal teaching of the national organization, it does appear that the chant was widely known and informally shared amongst members on the leadership cruise."

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1018732&highlight=sigma+alpha+epsilon

The University of Cincinnati has suspended a fraternity that celebrated the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s birthday with a racially demeaning party, but blacks on campus and in the city say that is not enough.

They want the school to expel the Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity, and they want the fraternity's national office to revoke the chapter's charter.

Another day, another fraternity controversy. This afternoon BroBible learned that Washington University in St. Louis' Sigma Alpha Epsilon chapter was suspended for an incident involving pledges who allegedly sang racial slurs to African-American students

.

The University of Arizona put the Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity on an interim suspension as it investigates a report that members attacked a Jewish frat.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=155249473#post155249473

See a pattern?

However I don't equate gang culture with African American culture anymore than I do say the Latin Kings or Los Bandidos with Hispanic culture.

From wikipedia

The Crips are a primarily African-American gang. They were founded in Los Angeles, California in 1969 mainly by Raymond Washington and Stanley Williams. What was once a single alliance between two autonomous gangs is now a loosely connected network of individual sets, often engaged in open warfare with one another.

The Bloods are a primarily, though not exclusively, African American street gang founded in Los Angeles, California. The gang is widely known for its rivalry with the Crips. They are identified by the red color worn by their members and by particular gang symbols, including distinctive hand signs.

It wasnt a gang party, it was a party about a Black gang, by a 100% white organization.

Having a Norteño party would be just as problematic.


Do you see now why it is a problem,e specially from a group that has a strong history of racial intolerance?

Or, on a similar note, do you think having a "watermelon and fried chicken party" is ok because, fuck, who doesn't love watermelon and fried chicken?

 

[Rembrandt]

How would you decide that this instance is the one, and not the other?

What I mean is, the idea behind this (let's throw a gang-themed party) was dumb. dressing the way they did, posing the way they did... equally as dumb. I get it, these kids are grade A clueless.

Does that make them racist?

Who actually throws gang parties except racists? this isn't a costume party. they're throwing a party themed around a destructive group of people for what? to make fun of the way they dress and talk? Do you think these people know any gang members to actually replicate that behavior or are they replicating/exaggerating the way black people talk/dress? do you know people that throw nazi parties except racists or throw biker parties except bikers?

 

[Slayven]

http://www.thegloss.com/2014/10/17/...ollege-parties-blackface-mexican-stereotypes/

 

[DoktorEvil]

How would you decide that this instance is the one, and not the other?

What I mean is, the idea behind this (let's throw a gang-themed party) was dumb. dressing the way they did, posing the way they did... equally as dumb. I get it, these kids are grade A clueless.

Does that make them racist?

The event was called "Cripmas". Even the laziest Google search for the Crips would show you that particular gang:

Wear blue colors and blue bandanas and wear a bandana in such a way to identify as a gang member.

Those photos do not look like they were going to be authentic in that portrayal.

They are all complicit in participating at a social event that was racially tinged.

Maybe they are bigoted or racist in their purview, maybe not, but at this point in time, no college is willing to take the chance of being labeled "a racist school", thus the semantic violation of alcohol use.

 

[Angelus Errare]

http://www.thegloss.com/2014/10/17/...ollege-parties-blackface-mexican-stereotypes/

I just noticed the Asian girl in the photo. Like she MUST be confused.

 

[Fenderputty]

For some reason I wasn't making the connection of who the FRAT was. OK yeah, while I think gang related parties aren't inherently racist, the source has enough smoke to ponder fire.

 

[boiled goose]

While possibly problematic from the article it seems they were at least not pushing outright racial stereotypes.

 

[JDSN]

http://www.thegloss.com/2014/10/17/...ollege-parties-blackface-mexican-stereotypes/

This means nothing because crips are known for specifically eating watermelon and chicken, also crips are known for using grills, I choose to believe this reality because the alternative means that the only reason why they call them "cripmas" is because it gives them some wiggle room enough for the racist defence force to do their job, they know that as long as they keep calling them "MLK celebration" or "Hood party" they will get a a pass from people that are always making those "This deserves no outrage" comments.

 

[Rembrandt]

For some reason I wasn't making the connection of who the FRAT was. OK yeah, while I think gang related parties aren't inherently racist, the source has enough smoke to ponder fire.

explain to me why a gang related party isn't inherently racist. i'm curious as to why anyone would throw one besides to perpetuate stereotypes.

 

[TRios Zen]

It's the very first line of the OP. And yes, it plays a significant part.

...
Or, on a similar note, do you think having a "watermelon and fried chicken party" is ok because, fuck, who doesn't love watermelon and fried chicken?

I read the linked article, but don't recall reading that part about SAE, and that is grade A fucked up. Yes, I would absolutely agree that when an organization you are affiliated with has a reputation of being racist than you have to be extremely careful of your actions or you rightfully should be thrown in the rest.

I have to be honest, while I have heard the "watermelon and fried chicken" thing, I have no idea where it comes from. But I would not attend a party where the intent was to be racially insensitive, though I'm unlikely to know anyone that would throw a party like that anyway.

Who actually throws gang parties except racists? this isn't a costume party. they're throwing a party themed around a destructive group of people for what? to make fun of the way they dress and talk? Do you think these people know any gang members to actually replicate that behavior or are they replicating/exaggerating the way black people talk/dress? do you know people that throw nazi parties except racists or throw biker parties except bikers?

Given the information above I'm perfectly willing to concede this point.

 

[Rembrandt]

I read the linked article, but don't recall reading that part about SAE, and that is grade A fucked up. Yes, I would absolutely agree that when an organization you are affiliated with has a reputation of being racist than you have to be extremely careful of your actions or you rightfully should be thrown in the rest.

I have to be honest, while I have heard the "watermelon and fried chicken" thing, I have no idea where it comes from. But I would not attend a party where the intent was to be racially insensitive, though I'm unlikely to know anyone that would throw a party like that anyway.



Given the information above I'm perfectly willing to concede this point.

So it was okay before you realized the frat itself is racist? I'm assuming nobody you know would throw a party like this because they're racist assholes and have the common sense/decency to know exactly what a "gang party" would be.

 

[Fenderputty]

explain to me why a gang related party isn't inherently racist. i'm curious as to why anyone would throw one besides to perpetuate stereotypes.

Are toga parties inherently racist to Romans? Parties have themes. Gang culture has been, at times, glamorized by pop culture in the US. Having gang related parties doesn't seem inherently racist to me. It's about context. Are people wearing black face because they equate black people with gang activity? Any other stereo types likes sombreros or such things? Are they being done on MLK day or Cinco De Mayo?

The context here is that the kids conflated urban attire with gang attire. This in itself isn't outwardly racist IMO. I believe various degrees of institutional racism can explain why suburban youth conflates urban attire with gang attire, but I don't think it's outwardly racist. I think this requires a little benefit of the doubt, but the source having proven to already have a shaky record ... I'm no longer willing to extend then that benefit.

In general I think criminal culture is to some extent idolized by Americans. It's why movies like scarface do so well.

 

[TRios Zen]

So it was okay before you realized the frat itself is racist? I'm assuming nobody you know would throw a party like this because they're racist assholes and have the common sense/decency to know exactly what a "gang party" would be.

No, it was okay because I do not assume that every ignorant person on the planet is racist.

I don't know anyone that would throw a party like that, because I don't hang out with racist people. HAHA - the friends I DO hang out with generally have the common sense/decency to not verbally attack someone with a different opinion. Your angst is ill-aimed, but if it makes you feel better to yell at me man, let it out!

 

[Rembrandt]

Are toga parties inherently racist to Romans? Parties have themes. Gang culture has been, at times, glamorized by pop culture in the US. Having gang related parties doesn't seem inherently racist to me. It's about context. Are people wearing black face because they equate black people with gang activity? Any other stereo types likes sombreros or such things? Are they being done on MLK day or Cinco De Mayo?

The context here is that the kids conflated urban attire with gang attire. This in itself isn't outwardly racist IMO. I believe various degrees of institutional racism can explain why suburban youth conflates urban attire with gang attire, but I don't think it's outwardly racist. I think this requires a little benefit of the doubt, but the source having proven to already have a shaky record ... I'm no longer willing to extend then that benefit.

Why would toga parties be racist to Romans? I'll say no, but I would like to know why you picked that as an example, besides for the them wearing togas. Where has gang culture been glamorized? Are you talking about movies like Boyz n the Hood or Menace II Society? Two movies that show negative aspects of gang violence and ghettos? Are you equating gang culture with hip-hop culture? lol, i have no idea what you're trying to say with the black face thing.

That context is the problem. You seriously just spelled it out. Their idea of gang attire is urban attire. You don't see how that's problematic? Do you think they seriously just dressed up as "gang members" and then they partied? You don't think they threw around a few niggas here, made a few kool-aid/watermelon/fried chicken jokes there? If you're throwing a gang party, your only intent is to make fun of a group of people, and it's not just gang members. Once again, you won't see black people throwing gang parties like this. It just wouldn't happen. Criminals are glamorized here to an extent, but not gang members. No way, no how. Not when you have white people using "thug" as a synonym for nigger, rap music being called the reason for violence in black neighborhoods, etc.

No, it was okay because I do not assume that every ignorant person on the planet is racist.

I don't know anyone that would throw a party like that, because I don't hang out with racist people. HAHA - the friends I DO hang out with generally have the common sense/decency to not verbally attack someone with a different opinion. Your angst is ill-aimed, but if it makes you feel better to yell at me man, let it out!

Oh. I'm glad you're willing to extend the benefit of the doubt that much that you can let subtle (since you couldn't notice) racism pass you buy. I obviously meant to put not in that post because my sentence doesn't make sense without it. How am I verbally attacking you, man? I didn't notice my missing word but I think that sentence was clear enough for a person to know I meant to put not in it, but maybe not.

 

[TRios Zen]

Oh. I'm glad you're willing to extend the benefit of the doubt that much that you can let subtle (since you couldn't notice) racism pass you buy. I obviously meant to put not in that post because my sentence doesn't make sense without it. How am I verbally attacking you, man? I didn't notice my missing word but I think that sentence was clear enough for a person to know I meant to put not in it, but maybe not.

I think you are more impassioned about this than I, and I respect that - different life experiences and all. I try very hard not to be disrespectful of other's opinions so being told I had "asshole" friends seemed unwarranted. But it was a simple misunderstanding, no hard feelings here over it at all.

 

[Rembrandt]

I think you are more impassioned about this than I, and I respect that - different life experiences and all. I try very hard not to be disrespectful of other's opinions so being told I had "asshole" friends seemed unwarranted. But it was a simple misunderstanding, no hard feelings here over it at all.

Like I said in my prior post, I meant that people you know wouldn't throw gang parties because they're not racist assholes and know exactly what a gang party would entitle, unlike yourself. Not calling you a racist asshole, but you just seem oblivious to what these gang parties entitle and if this was the first time a frat has been caught doing it, I would understand, but this isn't really new. I still don't exactly understand how one could equate a gang party with a mobster party or a biker party because I mean, you don't see anyone but skinheads throwing nazi parties and nobody but bikers throwing biker parties. Throwing a gang party is a lame attempt to be racist, that's all I'm saying.

 

[Fenderputty]

Why would toga parties be racist to Romans? I'll say no, but I would like to know why you picked that as an example, besides for the them wearing togas. Where has gang culture been glamorized? Are you talking about movies like Boyz n the Hood or Menace II Society? Two movies that show negative aspects of gang violence and ghettos? Are you equating gang culture with hip-hop culture? lol, i have no idea what you're trying to say with the black face thing.

That context is the exact problem. You seriously just spelled it out. Their idea of gang attire is urban attire. You don't see how that's problematic? Do you think they seriously just dressed up as "gang members" and then they partied? You don't think they threw around a few niggas here, made a few kool-aid/watermelon/fried chicken jokes there? If you're throwing a gang party, your only intent is to make fun of a group of people, and it's not just gang members. Once again, you won't see black people throwing gang parties like this. It just wouldn't happen.

Yes ... because they're wearing togas. Themes are just that. They're not racist for simply existing. Simply wearing gang attire or having a gang theme isn't racist. Gang culture is glamorized in a ton of areas of media. This is the reason I brought up scarface. Sure some, but not all rap, would fall into this category. Specifically 90's rap that white youth ate up (myself included). I used scarface as an example to show a general social acceptance towards gang activity without having to get racial. That's south American. We can go with various Italian mob movies etc etc. Most of the movies that are socially glamorized were actually trying to show the negatives of the lifestyle. This is why I think some form of gang/mob theme would be fairly common and wouldn't have some undertone automatically associated with it. We're still idolizing billy the kid and bonnie and clyde. I've been to gang themed parties with people of all races jokingly dressing up as some form of gang attire, including Mexican gangs. I jokingly brought up Nike Cotez's earlier in the thread.

I think pointing out an instance of institutional racism doesn't mean we need to point at the people involved and shout "RACIST!" The reason institutional racism exists is because it's more nuanced that this.

Again ... considering the source ... the smoke here is likely fire.

 

[CarpeDeezNutz]

Don't these kids know folk can't be people and people can't be folk?

 

[Cameron122]

Is it sad that I'm relieved this wasn't some horrific mockery of disabled people?

Same, as a dude with a handicap I would be upset that I wasn't invited lol

 

[Rembrandt]

Yes ... because they're wearing togas. Themes are just that. They're not racist for simply existing. Simply wearing gang attire or having a gang theme isn't racist. Gang culture is glamorized in a ton of areas of media. This is the reason I brought up scarface. Sure some, but not all rap, would fall into this category. Specifically 90's rap that white youth ate up (myself included). I used scarface as an example to show a general social acceptance towards gang activity without having to get racial. That's south American. We can go with various Italian mob movies etc etc. Most of the movies that are socially glamorized were actually trying to show the negatives of the lifestyle. This is why I think some form of gang/mob theme would be fairly common and wouldn't have some undertone automatically associated with it. We're still idolizing billy the kid and bonnie and clyde. I've been to gang themed parties with people of all races jokingly dressing up as some form of gang attire, including Mexican gangs. I jokingly brought up Nike Cotez's earlier in the thread.

I think pointing out an instance of institutional racism doesn't mean we need to point at the people involved and shout "RACIST!" The reason institutional racism exists is because it's more nuanced that this.

Again ... considering the source ... the smoke here is likely fire.

Okay, I get that, but why would a toga party be offensive to Romans? You can't just say they're the same while ignoring all the racial contexts that come with a white person throwing a "gang party" and dressing like gangsters. yes, it is. why else would a person throw a gang related party but to laugh at black stereotypes? if you throw a toga party, you're not doing it with the intentions of pointing out roman stereotypes, it's just a costume and not even a stereotypical one at that. saying "let's throw a crip party!" and then coming in all red is not only ignorant but shows the true intention of what they were doing, which is to dress up as stereotypical versions of black people so they can joke and laugh about them.

Scarface is glamorized amongst minorities because it's a minority coming to america and going from rags to riches. Not only that, but Tony was highly charismatic and entertaining to watch. It's glamorizing the criminal lifestyle, yeah, but it also shows Tony as a highly paranoid, drug addicted asshole that's in love with his sister while still having weird moral boundaries. You saying you've been to a gang party isn't changing my mind about them being racist and stereotypical.

I don't disagree with your sentiment, but I do want to point out that a lot of Greeks throw "Godfather" style parties...

Like, you know, Mafia themed, like pin striped suits and stuff.

I've also seen biker themed parties. Lots of leather, y'all.

In this particular case it's probably racist.

But sometimes Greeks do throw gang-themed parties.

Spoiler

I was Greek in college so I know >_>

I'm sure they do. I don't see anything wrong with a Mafia themed party or even a biker one because a lot of biker gangs are all-inclusive and do nothing but ride bikes. I think there's a huge social distinction between a group of white people saying "Let's dress up as the Mafia" vs "Let's dress up as gang members/black people in the most stereotypical way." are you sure the biker parties weren't a secret bdsm thing?

 

[Mrs. Manky]

Who the fuck dresses in a Nazi uniform on Halloween?

Prince Harry.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4170083.stm

 

[BajiBoxer]

Prince Harry.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4170083.stm

Yeah, I remember that. People were pretty ticked off.

 

[charlequin]

However I think its also kind of wrong that people (including myself) are equating gangs to black people.

I would agree, but the people doing the equating here are the kids throwing the party and using generic black stereotypes to do so.

What makes dressing up as Crips and Bloods any different from dressing up as a Hells Angel or even the mafia?

One is being done based on a received set of offensive racial stereotypes and the other is not.

You have to prove that these students are being racist

We don't, actually.