From Software responds to Dark Souls II graphics downgrade concerns

jamesgriggs said:
Obvious answer, and totally acceptable. What they were able to accomplish on these old systems is pretty remarkable, and am completely used to games looking better prior to release.
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Sub 30fps, screen tearing up the wazoo and generally just looking worse all round than the previous game on the same systems? Yes, truly remarkable.
 
I completely sympathize with all those who are pissed off by the downgrade. I mean "Victory Achieved"? What the fuck is that shit?
 
Garcia said:
This is happening to a lot of disc based PS3 users. Why did they ship that crap in the first place? If they were aware of this they should have sticked to digital only.
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The digital version doesn't automatically get rid of all of these problems though, right?
 
B-Genius said:
I never said it was fine. I said the question was aimed (and come to think of it, also framed) badly because from the looks of this thread, people did not get the answer they were expecting.
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Well you implied that they are not "getting away with shady business practices", so if this is not fine and it's not a shady business practice, what is it?
 
The game looks fine as is regardless of the bait and switch.

Sure its assy in a few spots, but this is 8 year old hardware. What do you expect?

Now.. if the PC version looks just as shitty... then make some room on the complain train.. cause my fat ass is coming.
 
People are upset over being lied to and then getting gargled words that basically means nothing.

Corporate apologists claims they don't understand why people are upset and create straw-men arguments. laughable
 
so1337 said:
The digital version doesn't automatically get rid of all of these problems though, right?
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Unfortunately we haven't gathered enough information regarding the digital version of the game. For all we know, some people claim that they run into far less problems (plus, shorter loading times) when playing on digital.
 
Gurrry said:
The game looks fine as is regardless of the bait and switch.

Sure its assy in a few spots, but this is 8 year old hardware. What do you expect?

Now.. if the PC version looks just as shitty... then make some room on the complain train.. cause my fat ass is coming.
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All eyes on the PC version!
 
Relaxed Muscle said:
They only said resolution and framerate.
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And textures. They explicitly confirmed textures, resolution and framerate.

Honestly, for me the most exciting thing is still whether the game will support >60 Hz framerates. I don't even care about the lighting that much, can always change the ambient lighting level if I have to :P
 
Gurrry said:
The game looks fine as is regardless of the bait and switch.

Sure its assy in a few spots, but this is 8 year old hardware. What do you expect?

Now.. if the PC version looks just as shitty... then make some room on the complain train.. cause my fat ass is coming.
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Has nothing to with it. 8 year old hardware isnt the fault that ambient lighting was toned down or that the games gamma was fucked up. Those two things alone would have made the downgrade not as big as it is today.
 
Yuterald said:
From got too big for their own britches. I still feel like they were never meant to be under the spotlight. They had such humble beginnings too. I mean, like, NO ONE used to talk about their games. They strike "gold" with the Souls games and they (and partly due to the publisher) fall into the same trappings a lot of "AAA" developers/publishers find themselves in.

It's a shame too, because after having now played the game, I think the lighting stuff and how it's incorporated with the gameplay is still very much present and interesting. The problem is, as most have suggested, is the fact that they showed/"promised" it to look a certain way and it doesn't. If they demoed the game from the get-go with the current build I would have had no issues/problems with From and this game, but sadly that isn't the case.

Oh well, I've got some good memories of From back from the good old days, when no one gave a shit about their games.
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So you're no longer going to support them because now they're cool and in the spotlight, and when you liked them they wee more niche?

From has changed its organisational structure and project split since Demon's/Dark, but it hasn't changed its policies/philosophy towards making games.

From promised nothing. They presented their goals and results for the E3 build and network test, and advertised primarily using CG. From is not a AAA studio. They are being sponsored by AAA publishers (for better or worse).

I'm not targeting you personally, but people really need to get over themselves and their "rights" as consumers. Go ahead and speak with your wallet and cause a stir if you feel the need, but we all know why this series is doing well (hint: it's not due to "shady business practices").
 
Durante said:
And textures. They explicitly confirmed textures, resolution and framerate.

Honestly, for me the most exciting thing is still whether the game will support >60 Hz framerates. I don't even care about the lighting that much, can always change the ambient lighting level if I have to :P
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There you go guys, Durante will save us all.
 
so1337 said:
The digital version doesn't automatically get rid of all of these problems though, right?
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tbh I might be lucky but I played through the whole game, am currently in NG+ and only had a few of those "bugs" happening to me.

It's mostly input lags on the menus, very very rarely in combat (at most 2-3 times during my whole playthrough) and the proximity to the enemies stuff.

There might have been some out-of-sync audio things but I never noticed.

btw I'm playing disc-based PS3 version.
 
This doesn't answer people's problem, which is that Bamco consistently showcased a different game up till release. I don't have a problem with a developer downgrading a games graphics to have an acceptable framerate and so forth.
 
It looks like they're dodging the real issue: the fact that they only showed the "good looking" version until the game came out.

Downgrades happen, but if we followed all official media on the game we typically find that out prior to release.
 
Honestly this is the most confused I've been over a game related backlash.

The game is great and the graphics are what I'd expect from a ps360 title.

If the other version with the lighting struggled to keep 20fps, I'm glad they changed it.

Frame rate>effects. Always.
 
PuppetSlave said:
People are upset over being lied to and then getting gargled words that basically means nothing.

Corporate apologists claims they don't understand why people are upset and create straw-men arguments. laughable
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People are living in a fantasy world where last minute compromises aren't apart of the game development process and developers do extra work in order to lie to their audience. Anything short of an admission to that narrative seems like it would be "gargled words" to those folks.
 
As I suspected, the changes were very likely last-minute and somewhat rushed, judging by the reponse.

If you want to take issue with the marketing, take it up with Bamco, marketing is their job, not From's. I honestly don't believe From had the intention to mislead anyone, I can't take seriously the notion that they would, that just reeks of conspiracy theories and ignoring the most obvious and likely reason for all this.
 
Durante said:
And textures. They explicitly confirmed textures, resolution and framerate.

Honestly, for me the most exciting thing is still whether the game will support >60 Hz framerates. I don't even care about the lighting that much, can always change the ambient lighting level if I have to :P
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I know it's selfish as fuck, but I've never wanted to say "Durante pls" so badly until now
 
I never paid much attention to how the game looked in previews and i certainly didn't make my decision on buying or not based on that!
 
Darth Zandatsu said:
Sub-30 fps most of the time on PS3 but no screen tearing.

Xbox has better fps but also screen tearing.

I already have like 40 hours played and I NEVER saw the game run at Blightown framerates
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Yep. The worst I've seen the framerate that I can remember is walking along a path between Sinner's Rise and Lost Bastille. That's the place I seem to notice it, most other places it runs pretty decently. Inside areas actually get above 30 fps.
 
Candescence said:
As I suspected, the changes were very likely last-minute and somewhat rushed.

If you want to take issue with the marketing, take it up with Bamco, marketing is their job, not From's.
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It's true, plus not buying the game also punishes all of the members of the development team who had no say in how this game was marketed. No one ever mentions that side of things, for some reason.
 
Doesn't matter to me, they still delivered on a potential game of the year. Everybody should play this masterpiece.

If you're concerned about graphical downgrades from marketing footage, then wait for release and review embargo lift, watch a twitch stream or let's play.
 
immortal-joe said:
It looks like they're dodging the real issue: the fact that they only showed the "good looking" version until the game came out.

Downgrades happen, but if we followed all official media on the game we typically find that out prior to release.
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And thats the point. The game is equally good as DS1 and the backlash only gets bigger if they dont respond why they only showed a good looking version until release. If the PC version matches the beta its Ok, but the silence around it makes me very suspicious.
 
Darth Zandatsu said:
First of all, we have like 5-6 threads about this very subject already, no need to create another one.

Second, the positives of the game outweight the negatives of it. I listed the negatives both in the beta test and in my impressions of the full game.
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I haven't seen these posts before but i could counter many other posts (and threads) were you sounded like a Namco astroturfer.I mean there are many hardcore Souls fans in here (i'd like to think i'm among them) but most of us are not blinded by our love of the previous games.And the way you complained about this thread kinda rubbed me the wrong way.Anyway sorry if i offended you and besides this doesn't really matter since even if you worked for Namco you obviously wouldn't openly admit it.

I still stand by my opinion regarding the animations and art direction though.
 
jaosobno said:
Stop that.

It's god-awful. Game features PS2 textures and lighting engine.
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Dark Souls also had PS2 level textures in some areas. And Dark Souls II has rough edges, just like Dark Souls, just like Demon's. But there are areas that look really good. I've actually been enjoying the way the game looks, for the most part.
 
EvilKatarn said:
Crafting a fine sequel to one of the best games of the generation = incompetence.

God fucking damn it gaf, get a grip.

At least take it up no Bamco who has been doing the marketing.
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I supported the 1st game because Durante made it acceptable. This looks almost the same. That's just me.
 
Frankly, while the downgrade is strikingly obvious, what I've seen about the game so far made me think that even in the worst case scenario increased resolution, better textures and 60+ fps will be enough to make the game almost a looker on PC.

On a side note, I would friendly advice FROM to stop putting "forests" in their games because apparently they are absolutely awful at modelling vegetation/natural environments.
 
I am at least glad they got pulled out on this.

I do believe companies will do take note due to heavy social media opposition and it will ultimately lead to bad PR.
 
immortal-joe said:
It looks like they're dodging the real issue: the fact that they only showed the "good looking" version until the game came out.

Downgrades happen, but if we followed all official media on the game we typically find that out prior to release.
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This is the major issue at hand. If we are going to roast EA and Gearbox for this, Namco/From should be held to same standard of transparency. They intentionally misled consumers then made substantial changes at the last second without sending any word to the media or consumers at large. I know Demon Souls is a sacred cow among a large portion of membership of GAF, but this whole thing is sleazy.
 
The_Darkest_Red said:
It's true, plus not buying the game also punishes all of the members of the development team who had no say in how this game was marketed. No one ever mentions that side of things, for some reason.
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Pretty much - anyone claiming that From was deliberately deceiving us is just overcomplicating things and assuming malice on From's part for no real reason despite the changes to the retail version being an obvious last-minute rush job. Bamco's the one at fault, mostly. Would some prior notice have helped? Sure, but I doubt Bamco would've wanted the bad press. Ironically, that backfired on them. This whole mess lies at Bamco's feet more than anything else, I imagine. From probably didn't realize everyone would raise such a stink over this, either, but that doesn't mean they deliberately mislead us.

I'm gonna get the PC version at any rate, the console version isn't worth it, I want my 60 FPS, damn it.
 
Durante said:
And textures. They explicitly confirmed textures, resolution and framerate.

Honestly, for me the most exciting thing is still whether the game will support >60 Hz framerates. I don't even care about the lighting that much, can always change the ambient lighting level if I have to :P
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Haha, you're gonna make GAF expect those fixes from you :p
 
Man, gaf has become brutal against devs and pubs. Nothing they say could make you guys happy, short of "April fool's! It totally looks better now!"

Things change in development, guys. That's how it works.
 
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