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[Vindicator]

Hello GAF - first Post

I can really imagine From coming up with something like "We must make sure that the Game will run on weaker PCs as well" resulting in the PS360 Version with increased (texture)resolution/framerate/normal mapping/SSAO.

Apart from that game looks ok to me, enjoying it on PS3.

 

[legacyzero]

Let's hear about that PC version, From.

"Continuity in graphical quality"

This. Lots of inconsistencies.

 

[bob_arctor]

I thought it was hyperbole as well... until I got to the Shaded Forest, as far as textures go.

Forest of Fallen Giants isn't anything to write home about either (specifically grass covered walls/stones) but you could find areas like that in Dark Souls as well. Game still looks great overall and isn't this abomination some are making it out to be. Note that this is a different discussion aside from being pissed that we didn't get the graphically better version shown to us leading up to release. The PS3 disc version seems to also have some technical issues absent from the 360 version, such as the long load times etc.

 

[so1337]

I encountered almost none of these problems on digital version.

tbh I might be lucky but I played through the whole game, am currently in NG+ and only had a few of those "bugs" happening to me.

It's mostly input lags on the menus, very very rarely in combat (at most 2-3 times during my whole playthrough) and the proximity to the enemies stuff.

There might have been some out-of-sync audio things but I never noticed.

btw I'm playing disc-based PS3 version.

The framerate must've been similarly bad on the digital version, right? Did it just not bother you that much?

Unfortunately we haven't gathered enough information regarding the digital version of the game. For all we know, some people claim that they run into far less problems (plus, shorter loading times) when playing on digital.

Not like it matters anyway. I'm stuck with the retail version for now.

edit: Sure would suck if they couldn't even achieve parity between retail and digital versions on the same goddamn platform though.

 

[Kade]

On a side note, I would friendly advice FROM to stop putting "forests" in their games because apparently they are absolutely awful at modelling vegetation/natural environments.

They could just license SpeedTree.

 

[JCizzle]

Man, gaf has become brutal against devs and pubs. Nothing they say could make you guys happy, short of "April fool's! It totally looks better now!"

Things change in development, guys. That's how it works.

So people should have let Microsoft off the hook because the bone was still in development? Same for gearbox with their garbage? These companies get the criticism they deserve, FROM is no different just because they make hard games.

 

[Cetra]

The final game is fantastic and it's quite sad people are so opposed to trying it because it does not look like the preview build.

Agreed. Once you get into it, you won't even care anymore. It's easily as good as DkS in many respects. Though I think I still prefer Lordran to Drangeic.

I'll still double dip even if the PC version is "downgraded" cause even then, it'll still look and run better than the PS3 one. And I'll have one more awesome game to play on my awesome PC.

 

[Metal_slime]

I feel bad for people not buying ds2 for something as stupid as this. From Software is one of the few devs worth a damn left in the world. So really you are missing out by being butthurt over a change in the graphics engine. All games are subject to change before release. It's not the first tune and it won't be the last time.

So stop browbeating From when most of you know little to nothing about actually developing a major game. It's pathetic. Gamers are so entitled these days that they will start a racket on twitter over every little thing. In reality it's amazing that a sequel to Souls even exists.

 

[SargerusBR]

And the way you complained about this thread kinda rubbed me the wrong way.

Wasn't my intention, its just that i really don't see the reason to create more threads about this subject. Until Bamco/FROM releases proper PC footage every thread regarding the downgrade will probably end like this:

-People posting gifs/videos/screenshots comparing the Reveal build vs TGS build vs Retail build, speculating which build the PC version will be using.

-People saying they will never buy another FROMSOFT game ever

-People that dont see the issue and think GAF is hyperboling

 

[Seanspeed]

No it doesn't. It shows that people are against this shady business practise, simple as that.

Shady business practice? I mean, you act like it was their intention to mislead people and then sell them something worse.

What happened here was a developmental downgrade. I'm sure this happens way more than we think. There was nothing in the early materials we saw that said 'this is *exactly* what the release version will look like'.

People are willing to wait and see if they PC version or a possible Current gen version will be improved over the last gen versions, I don't see what is so surprising about that.
I played the souls series years after their release and enjoyed them just as much as everyone else.

I was talking mainly about the PC version. Its gonna be what it is. Waiting will not make for a better game.

Basically, it sounds to me like people are saying that since it doesn't look fantastic and much better than Dark Souls 1, its not worth the asking price.

 

[outunderthestars]

Man, gaf has become brutal against devs and pubs. Nothing they say could make you guys happy, short of "April fool's! It totally looks better now!"

Things change in development, guys. That's how it works.

I dont think anyone is claiming that it doesn't. They promoted a certain level of fidelity, and were unable to deliver it. But instead of putting out final trailers that showed the actual product they continued to market and sell the game based on a build of the game that they knew they would not be able to achieve.

 

[Doug Heffernan]

I don't get what the big deal is...

would you rather play the game with a shitty frame rate?

 

[PuppetSlave]

People are living in a fantasy world where last minute compromises aren't apart of the game development process and developers do extra work in order to lie to their audience. Anything short of an admission to that narrative seems like it would be "gargled words" to those folks.

See, this is not about the downgrade in graphics really. It's that they hid the fact. See the difference? That you see is the fact that led to people getting upset. Why does does it feel I have made this post before? Oh thats right that's because I just did and you chose to respond to it with an straw-man.

 

[Stet]

LEAVE FROM ALONE

 

[Gbraga]

And textures. They explicitly confirmed textures, resolution and framerate.

Honestly, for me the most exciting thing is still whether the game will support >60 Hz framerates. I don't even care about the lighting that much, can always change the ambient lighting level if I have to

 

[NIN90]

The framerate must've been similarly bad on the digital version, right? Did it just not bother you that much?

Not like it matters anyway. I'm stuck with the retail version for now.

Framerate is really bad for me on my digital copy. I'd hazard a guess that it's below 25 most of the time.

 

[Jack cw]

I don't get what the big deal is...

would you rather play the game with a shitty frame rate?

I like sarcsm.
The Ps3 version is already running with a shitty framerate. Its not that the game would be better with more fancy effects, but that they only showed the enhanced version labled as console version until the release and thats why people are complaining. Its even worse that the game is so good.

 

[PoweredBySoy]

Steam winter sale for you.

 

[SargerusBR]

The framerate must've been similarly bad on the digital version, right? Did it just not bother you that much?

Sub-30 fps most of the time is still playable for me, just obviously not the ideal. I think a lot of these issues in the disc version would be avoided if the game could be fully installed on the PS3 hard drive

 

[SJRB]

I don't get what the big deal is...

would you rather play the game with a shitty frame rate?

The "big deal" is that FROM showed/demo'd a game that looks drastically different [better] mere weeks before releasing the final product. It's not about a downgrade per se, but about deliberately showing unfair footage to make the game look better than it actually is.

 

[Raven77]

If the PC version doesn't have those extra effects then this goes from insta-buy to sub-10 bucks sale for me.

Disgraceful business practise.

Agreed 100% and I too simply cannot support a company that tries to brush off such a drastic change, while also not addressing the fact that marketing materials are all over the place advertising their awful looking game with much better graphics than it actually has.

 

[marrec]

An expectedly vapid response. I don't know what else you guys expected.

 

[ScriptedReality]

I feel bad for people not buying ds2 for something as stupid as this. From Software is one of the few devs worth a damn left in the world. So really you are missing out by being butthurt over a change in the graphics engine. All games are subject to change before release. It's not the first tune and it won't be the last time.

So stop browbeating From when most of you know little to nothing about actually developing a major game. It's pathetic. Gamers are so entitled these days that they will start a racket on twitter over every little thing. In reality it's amazing that a sequel to Souls even exists.

There's that entitlement statement again. "So what they did a bait and switch!! The games fun, buy it. Wanting the game to look as awesome as the previews that you got hyped over is a stupid reason to skip it!"

Yeah right.

 

[Dragon1893]

There's no excuse to not retain those assets in the PC version. If it's just the console version with options for higher res and frame-rate I'll be really disappointed

The "big deal" is that FROM showed/demo'd a game that looks drastically different [better] mere weeks before releasing the final product. It's not about a downgrade per se, but about deliberately showing unfair footage to make the game look better than it actually is.

Definitely, at that point in time they already knew it wasn't going to look like that but they had no problem pretending it did anyway.

 

[so1337]

Framerate is really bad for me on my digital copy. I'd hazard a guess that it's below 25 most of the time.

Yeah, below 25 seems about right for the retail version as well, at least in the early parts of the game.

 

[AdventureMike]

Agreed 100% and I too simply cannot support a company that tries to brush off such a drastic change, while also not addressing the fact that marketing materials are all over the place advertising their awful looking game with much better graphics than it actually has.

Bingo.

I was all in with people saying blame bamco, but FROM making this announcement just feels like they're doubling down on it.

FROM shouldn't have said shit.

 

[Raven77]

People are living in a fantasy world where last minute compromises aren't apart of the game development process and developers do extra work in order to lie to their audience. Anything short of an admission to that narrative seems like it would be "gargled words" to those folks.

Are you new to gaming? I am being serious, not trying to be a jerk. If not, or if you following video game news, you would know that spending lots of time, money, and resources to make a game look better than it will end up looking just to drive hype is something that MANY developers are doing and have been doing for years.

FROM is not willing to admit that they purposely deceived the public. The changes clearly displayed in the gigantic thread shows that NOTHING changed could have possibly been last minute. You don't rebuild an entire level "last minute".

They also didn't make the changes for performance reasons as people played the game running on PS3's just a couple months ago and it had about the same performance level as the retail version.


It was an intentional deception. How do I know this? Because official marketing materials and advertisements are out there RIGHT NOW showing the game looking much better than it is.

 

[TyrantII]

I feel bad for people not buying ds2 for something as stupid as this. From Software is one of the few devs worth a damn left in the world. So really you are missing out by being butthurt over a change in the graphics engine. All games are subject to change before release. It's not the first tune and it won't be the last time.

So stop browbeating From when most of you know little to nothing about actually developing a major game. It's pathetic. Gamers are so entitled these days that they will start a racket on twitter over every little thing. In reality it's amazing that a sequel to Souls even exists.

The big thing to me is DeS/DkS has never flaunted it graphics and technical feats as a reason to buy in (although people have been very attracted to the art style). Both of those games had issues with framerates approaching single digits.

While they do deserve to be dinged for using misleading marketing materials, you had to be an idiot to think dark souls was going to be a technical feat. That's not why people play these games.



Unlike a game like watchdogs, one of a million generic sandbox games. That game DID sell itself on its tech and simulation.

 

[hohoXD123]

Shady business practice? I mean, you act like it was their intention to mislead people and then sell them something worse.

What happened here was a developmental downgrade. I'm sure this happens way more than we think. There was nothing in the early materials we saw that said 'this is *exactly* what the release version will look like'.


I was talking mainly about the PC version. Its gonna be what it is. Waiting will not make for a better game.

Basically, it sounds to me like people are saying that since it doesn't look fantastic and much better than Dark Souls 1, its not worth the asking price.

We have repeatedly been told that it was running on console hardware. The developmental downgrade itself isn't the issue here, it's only finding out about it upon release. If constantly posting gameplay shots from the pre-downgrade build up until release and claiming it is running on the console isn't being intentionally misleading then I don't know what is. The game did not go gold and ship to consumers the same day as the developers finding out that the game wouldn't look like the promotional material.

 

[LiK]

Dark Souls 2 does have really great cloth physics. I love it flapping around.

 

[Garcia]

There's no excuse to not retain those assets in the PC version. If it's just the console version with options for higher res and frame-rate I'll be really disappointed

As one GAFfer said in another thread: They don't even know that this is just the eye of the hurricane. If the PC version doesn't resemble the promotional material, oh boy. . .

 

[B-Genius]

People are living in a fantasy world where last minute compromises aren't apart of the game development process and developers do extra work in order to lie to their audience. Anything short of an admission to that narrative seems like it would be "gargled words" to those folks.

This is the sad truth of it. There is no story here. If you want to drag these companies (devs, pubs, throw 'em all in) through the coals every time there's a whiff of disparity, then you've got your work cut out for you. The idea of From (and yes, even BN) wringing their hands with an evil grin while making/promoting "fake" content to mislead people is ridiculous.

If you feel you've been lied to or misinformed, take the game back or don't buy it in the first place. Pretty easy to get all the info you need before making a purchasing decision these days.

And I'm sorry for repeating myself, but please people, stop making honest consumers/fans out to be "blinded" by their appreciation for the series and what it stands for. It's just as insulting as what you're claiming to be offended and shocked by.

 

[Jito]

The game does admittedly look different but I wouldn't say worse. Strange they'd stick with using old footage for recent adds but I guess they'll hopefully learn from that mistake. Can't wait for the PC release!

 

[LiK]

As one GAFfer said in another thread: They don't even know that this is just the eye of the hurricane. If the PC version doesn't resemble the promotional material, oh boy. . .

No worries, DS2Fix

 

[Jack cw]

Dark Souls 2 does have really great cloth physics. I love it flapping around.

Too bad they ditched the ragdoll physics. It would have been awesome to see those two physics combined.

 

[NIN90]

Did people defend Gearbox this adamantly with their bait and switch on Aliens:CM?

 

[Sinatar]

And textures. They explicitly confirmed textures, resolution and framerate.

Honestly, for me the most exciting thing is still whether the game will support >60 Hz framerates. I don't even care about the lighting that much, can always change the ambient lighting level if I have to

Well the framerate on the console version is unlocked and goes above 30 from time to time, so it seems likely.

 

[Dragon1893]

The big thing to me is DeS/DkS has never flaunted it graphics and technical feats as a reason to buy in (although people have been very attracted to the art style). Both of those games had issues with framerates approaching single digits.

While they do deserve to be dinged for using misleading marketing materials, you had to be an idiot to think dark souls was going to be a technical feat. That's not why people play these games.



Unlike a game like watchdogs, one of a million generic sandbox games. That game DID sell itself on its tech and simulation.

People weren't thinking it was going to be a technical feat, they thought that, you know, it would look like the game they were showing off before release. Is this really that hard to grasp for some people?

 

[Riedinizzo]

The game probably ran like shit and they had to scale back the tech. /thread

wtf is the issue here?

 

[Jack cw]

Did people defend Gearbox this adamantly with their bait and switch on Aliens:CM?

Not so much, because the game was pretty bad. We are talking about one of the best games in recent years with DS2. Its something different here.

 

[LiK]

Too bad they ditched the ragdoll physics. It would have been awesome to see those two physics combined.

Yea, i do miss messing around with the corpses.

 

[popyea]

Did people defend Gearbox this adamantly with their bait and switch on Aliens:CM?

The one person who actually liked that game probably did.

 

[Sentenza]

As one GAFfer said in another thread: They don't even know that this is just the eye of the hurricane. If the PC version doesn't resemble the promotional material, oh boy. . .

But it won't.
Not because PCs aren't capable to handle the difference, but because I can't really see a Japanese publisher/developer releasing on what they consider a minor, secondary platform a version of the game that puts in shame the one they offered to their core audience on consoles.

 

[Dennis]

Man, gaf has become brutal against devs and pubs. Nothing they say could make you guys happy, short of "April fool's! It totally looks better now!"

Things change in development, guys. That's how it works.

Do you expect GAF to celebrate when a game looks considerably worse that what was teased and advertised?

At best, indifference. At worst, disappointment.

 

[zkylon]

Did people defend Gearbox this adamantly with their bait and switch on Aliens:CM?

probably not really comparable since aliens colonial marines was garbage while this looks like a good game in spite of the downgrade

still what a shitty response, specially since it took this long for them to say anything

 

[HDgaming42]

People are upset over being lied to and then getting gargled words that basically means nothing.

Corporate apologists claims they don't understand why people are upset and create straw-men arguments. laughable

I think you've just summed up a great deal of the content of DSII threads, right here.

GAF should offer a course in logical fallacies, and afterward anyone caught using one gets a ban. Multiple infractions result in a perma-ban.

Seriously GAF--check out the list of fallacies and tell me you don't see them being put to use here each and every day.

We could raise the level of discourse here if we all agreed to drop them (I'm sure I've been guilty from time to time as well, glass house etc etc).

 

[outunderthestars]

The big thing to me is DeS/DkS has never flaunted it graphics and technical feats as a reason to buy in (although people have been very attracted to the art style). Both of those games had issues with framerates approaching single digits.

While they do deserve to be dinged for using misleading marketing materials, you had to be an idiot to think dark souls was going to be a technical feat. That's not why people play these games.

Unlike a game like watchdogs, one of a million generic sandbox games. That game DID sell itself on its tech and simulation.

So people are idiots for believing that they were not being lied to? Wow.

And at least Ubisoft put out trailers highlighting the changes to the Watch Dog engine.

 

[Sentenza]

probably not really comparable since aliens colonial marines was garbage while this looks like a good game in spite of the downgrade

Uh, true, but it's also true that the difference is even more striking in this case.

 

[AdventureMike]

The game probably ran like shit and they had to scale back the tech. /thread

wtf is the issue here?

That Bamco continuously showed a different game up until release, marketing it as the product you are receiving on Day 1.

The individuals that are complaining aren't complaining for the fact that they scaled back graphics. It happens, everyone here knows that. Consumers were misled as to the product they were buying.

 

[U-R]

Translation: "Metacritic says we got away with it!"

Edit: I really hope that they planned an enhanced xbone/ps4 version and then ported that on PC. That or Durante.