- It still runs like shit (on PS3).
- They kept showing a version of the game that clearly doesn't look like the final product.
From Software responds to Dark Souls II graphics downgrade concerns
- Thread starter Poetic.Injustice
- Start date
entremet
Member
Yep. It's getting insane. I like good graphics as much as the next guy, but it's just all too much.
Candescence
Member
Nevermind that this is nothing like the Colonial Marines debacle. Colonial Marines was in development hell, was outsourced, and came out a piece of shit overall. Dark Souls II is still a great game overall at least, it's just that From likely had to strip away graphical details to make the game run at playable framerates at the last minute, and Bamco decided to keep promoting the old version, possibly without From's knowledge.
Yes, that's the reason I am hopeful.
It could still be capped at 60 FPS because they physics spazz out above it or something like that. But I really want to believe that when they made an entirely new engine they made it truly independent of the frame time interval.
120 FPS Souls would be awesome.
That was an entirely different game. The demo made by Gearbox was completely scrapped, and the developer they hired on rebuilt it... sort of. Not really comparable to downgrading a game so it can run on previous gen consoles.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
I hope that at the very least they make the torch mechanic relevant.
You really think they altered entire geometry and altered the lighting in a major way at the last minute?
They shouldn't lie.
These guys are professionals. They have enough experience with this franchise and developing in general to know what is feasible in the long run. Don't market it as being graphically amazing, then deliver something lesser and claim graphics aren't a big deal.
TheFNEffecT
Member
Drooling at the thought of it.....
I think people are mad because they kept promoting and showing fake screen shots/ videos, not because the graphics suck.
Isn't that the exact same reason they gabe for the locked resolution in DS1 PC? We're fucked."Continuity in graphical quality"
Yeah, that is a jerky way to open up a response. Have fun with your pitchforks guys.
DrROBschiz
Member
Maybe its graphically amazing on PC
Why not market that achievement? They should have never marketed the console versions the way they did I guess.
Oh well
HDgaming42
Member
BINGO!!
JFYI, your "oh well" is something other people feel a little more strongly about.
Except that we've seen *tons* of console screenshots that showed the game indeed didn't look great.
Pretty much every Dark Souls 2 screenshot thread was filled with 'this is ugly' comments and rightfully so.
kinda, from watching the aliens comparisons it looks like that game got a pretty massive visual downgrade too
personally i don't mind that they downgraded the graphics, if it didn't run properly then that's game development for you. if they removed the torch mechanic, well maybe it wasn't a fun mechanic to begin with. like, tomb of giants was one of my favorite areas in dks1 but it was gimmicky and probably wouldn't work if it was lengthier. again, that's game development
the big issue is how they sadvertised it as such 'til the last minute. it's bullshit and they deserve every bit of backlash they get
i'll still buy dks2 because i live for this type of game but it's a huge shame for from's to be tainted by this shit (which they're not victims of, 'course)
Screw you From. Shady practices such as this really makes me sad and for me taints a really great game.
I won't buy DSII and probably won't ever because I don't want to support this shit.
It is going to be interesting when it releases on PC. Not only because of the promised graphics upgrades, but also how this situation is going to affect it's piracy rate.
Already, I am hearing friends that going to pirate it instead of buying because they have heard about the graphics downgrades.
Really sad. Kinda hurts that this has happened to my most anticipated game of 2014.
I won't buy DSII and probably won't ever because I don't want to support this shit.
It is going to be interesting when it releases on PC. Not only because of the promised graphics upgrades, but also how this situation is going to affect it's piracy rate.
Already, I am hearing friends that going to pirate it instead of buying because they have heard about the graphics downgrades.
Really sad. Kinda hurts that this has happened to my most anticipated game of 2014.
Raven77
Member
Here is a quick summary for all of you who weren't in the other threads:
- The game was shown with the better graphics running on PS3 hardware this year. Framerate was about the same as retail version.
- The graphical difference is enormous. It's not just lighting or textures. Entire areas look geometrically different. As in, the level was rebuilt which takes LOTS of time.
- FROM and NAMCO continue to market the game with the better looking version that consumers are not receiving.
These are the sticking points that have people angry. As a consumer, unless you enjoy being lied to, you should also, at the very least, be mildly dissapointed with FROM and NAMCO.
- The game was shown with the better graphics running on PS3 hardware this year. Framerate was about the same as retail version.
- The graphical difference is enormous. It's not just lighting or textures. Entire areas look geometrically different. As in, the level was rebuilt which takes LOTS of time.
- FROM and NAMCO continue to market the game with the better looking version that consumers are not receiving.
These are the sticking points that have people angry. As a consumer, unless you enjoy being lied to, you should also, at the very least, be mildly dissapointed with FROM and NAMCO.
Candescence
Member
The end result reeks of a rush job - leaving the textures as-is without modifying them to accommodate the scaled-down lighting, for starters. And altering/removing geometry to reduce the polygon count isn't remotely difficult or time consuming, especially if the pieces of the environment that were actually removed were separate objects - in modern level editors, entire levels are generally a whole bunch of bits and pieces as separate objects, with larger, connected pieces of geometry generally being much, much simpler.
Zero fucks given by them, zero fucks given by me. Too busy getting my ass handed to me.
Actually, a dark souls game is about the only thing I would forgive this kind of bait and switch since Im just grateful I get to play it. Hear that From? Im bending over! Remove my wallet and fill me to the brim with DLC!
Actually, a dark souls game is about the only thing I would forgive this kind of bait and switch since Im just grateful I get to play it. Hear that From? Im bending over! Remove my wallet and fill me to the brim with DLC!
I agree, gimme my sticky white stuff back
bitoriginal
Member
The faux outrage in this thread is pathetic. This happens in the development of many games, and quite frankly the souls series was never a graphical showcase in the first place. It's always been about the gameplay, the challenge, the lore and the learning experience - all of which stack up against Demons and Dark.
DSII achieves its look from the dark fantasy art it's inspired by, not by a lighting engine that would have crippled the frame rate on current gen consoles. The game is great, it's a souls game through and through, and the graphics are on par/better than previous iterations. Get off your soapbox people, and judge the game on what you have rather than what you don't have.
DSII achieves its look from the dark fantasy art it's inspired by, not by a lighting engine that would have crippled the frame rate on current gen consoles. The game is great, it's a souls game through and through, and the graphics are on par/better than previous iterations. Get off your soapbox people, and judge the game on what you have rather than what you don't have.
Why wouldn't they? It rarely gets out, but it's definitely not out of ordinary to have to make drastic cuts at the end of development due to unexpected problems and especially since they had most of the features working at some point having to strip away things at the last minute would certainly result in a drastic drop in quality we've seen so far. Marketing with the old stuff is certainly questionable, but it's fair to note that the marketing material is usually done way before the game goes gold so there's little time to come up with totally new material and it happens because there's hardly any consequence to showing off touched-up or purely marketing material because that happens in pretty much every gametrailer. Something that should definitely change, but given the pressure the publisher has and lack of consequence isn't pointing in the right direction.
HDgaming42
Member
We were shown console specific screenshots that showed the same areas as the moving PS3 demo footage that clearly showed the lighting, torch mechanic, texturing and asset downgrades?
A clear comparison? Because if we were--I missed that...
Saying that people in a thread called it ugly doesn't really make all of this go away.
zephervack
Member
This is exactly the answer I was expecting, they were never going to say anything else.
At least they know tons of people noticed what they did.
If the PC version looks the same as the console... I dont even know, hopefully we can get another campaign going.
At least they know tons of people noticed what they did.
If the PC version looks the same as the console... I dont even know, hopefully we can get another campaign going.
This is why I cannot get fully behind this "movement". The mere idea that we are trying to equal situations like Aliens:Colonial marines to DS2 is -way- out of proportion and merit.
Should the PR people held accountable for any real misleadings? Sure! But:
a) That would be Namco, not From Software. And a lot of people seems to be happy to mix both in the blender. If we are talking about justice and doing the 'right thing', then do not do this. It's lazy, and .. misleading.
b) From is not, and has never been a AAA company focused on graphics. Sure, if DS2 becomes a resounding sucess (sells wise), I will be the first to ask them to step up their game for future titles. But asking them to provide a fully polished product is actually ridiculous. They are not a big company, technical wise, graphics have never been their forte, and as far as I can heard, there does not seem to be too many "show stopper" bugs, or blighttown situations. That's acceptable for those kind of companies. Like GSC (Stalker series), you take the quirks and lows because the rest of their games are quite good and innovative.
c) If I'm understanding correctly, what people are actually asking, is to make sure the PR add the legend "work in progress/target render, not accurate reflection of the final product" to any early promotional material. If that's right, then just say that.
It's will make the whole situation clearer and enhance the possibility of actually getting a desired result.
Why maybe ? I mean it's the lead platform ( which mean so much, right ?), got delayed to make the PC version optimal, and the steam page is still using pre-downgrade trailers to sell the game.
The true 'shitstorm' is not there yet, but will most likely begin april 25.
JimmyRustler
Member
Ok, I guess that was the last game I preordered from them then.
I don't care how good the game is (and it is pretty good), these shady practices are not ok and shouldn't be supported.
I don't care how good the game is (and it is pretty good), these shady practices are not ok and shouldn't be supported.
DrROBschiz
Member
Thats where reasonable reflection come in.
The game performs favorably alongside its predecessors on the platform and its good. Not to mention the high fidelity PC version on thr horizon.
It sucks how it was marketed but not THAT bad. If it wasn't marketed at all everyone would be happy to have it.
I get the disappointment about a lack of transparency but this is far less offensive than what we saw in Colonial Marines
The backlash seems to outweigh the issue itself.
outunderthestars
Banned
The number of stawmen arguments in this thread is staggering. Again, people are not upset at the final product. They are upset at the intentional deception that was and is still being used to market the game to consumers.
HDgaming42
Member
Not as bad as Colonial Marines so...not an issue?
I'm really trying to understand your point...
Haunted
Member
Things change, yes. Developers get praised when their game looks better than the WIP they showed before and devs get criticised when the game looks worse. It's not like the typical gamer (or GAFer) is an enigma, the psychology is pretty easy to understand. It's not like this kind of backlash has never happened before.
The burger promo shots people are using to defend deceitful advertising are actually a perfect example of that. No one is going to look at the sloppy burger on their tray looking much worse than the food they had advertised to them and then go ahead and praise the cook.
You have no real evidence for number 2 because
1) You don't know if the PC version looks like that footage or not
2) You have no evidence From claimed some of those videos were later or final builds. I believe even the purported "month before launch" Playstation Access stuff (which is a shill site by nature and should never be viewed by anybody as a good source for reliable info) is now thought to have come from older footage/build.
This doesn't explain the brightening of the ambient lighting in the game, From Software/Namco. You know, that little change that made your often touted torch-mechanic pretty much obsolete save for very few instances. The main reason I continue to light torches is to make the levels look better.
Also, as numerous poeple have already noted: stop advertising the game with screenshots that are misrepresenting the game.
Also, as numerous poeple have already noted: stop advertising the game with screenshots that are misrepresenting the game.
Too bad the game is lacking in the art department as well. Some areas are downright hideous. Blighttown and Lost Izalith are masterpieces compared to shit like the Shaded Woods or Tseldora. Seriously, at least the past Souls games were somewhat consistent despite the highs and lows but DS2 is all over the place.
You aren't seeing the bigger picture.
This isn't about comparing it to Colonial Marines.
This is about how this blatantly false marketing is becoming commonplace in the industry.
XANDER CAGE
Member
I'm sure someone could have guessed this response word for word before it was made, but at least they said something, I suppose.
I still think the whole thing is pretty disappointing. We'll probably never get a Dark Souls 2 with the level of detail seen in the preview builds, or with a relevant torch mechanic. Ah well.
I still think the whole thing is pretty disappointing. We'll probably never get a Dark Souls 2 with the level of detail seen in the preview builds, or with a relevant torch mechanic. Ah well.
bitoriginal
Member
Is this deception not used in almost all gaming products nowadays, and always has been? We constantly see bullshots of games that don't look like the final product. They hit a bump in the road with development and this statement shows they're being honest about it.
Would be interested in seeing some pre-release screenshots which looked very similar to the final game.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Thankyou. This post articulates my feelings exactly.
Getting very tiresome constantly having the "corporate apologist" or "fanboy" retort used in absence of any actual rebuttal to counter-argument.
Some people appear to have forgotten that being a gamer is about being a fan of gaming, not just being a fan of graphics or moaning the loudest at the least provocation.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
If only they'd stuck to their guns and the game ran at 20fps, we'd all be so much better off.
Haunted
Member
"Everyone does it" is about the poorest excuse for a shitty business practice I can think of.
Raven77
Member
This is just a testament to how messed up this industry is. Deception is so common place that the average gamer seems to not even care that they were lied to. Imagine if the music industry previewed new upcoming albums then didn't include some of the songs previewed.
This behavior wouldn't be tolerated in any other industry. Which I think is a real statement on just how much people love gaming. They are willing to overlook these things for the love we have for our favorite hobby.
This behavior wouldn't be tolerated in any other industry. Which I think is a real statement on just how much people love gaming. They are willing to overlook these things for the love we have for our favorite hobby.
Candescence
Member
Well, that's Bamco's fault, not From's. For all we know, From might not have had a damn clue what Bamco was up to with the marketing, while Bamco was more than happy to parade an older build to make the game look good.
RockTurtle
Member
i blame the true culprit for this
SCaMCO
SCaMCO
outunderthestars
Banned
They are being honest about it after they have sold over half a million copies of their product. They could have easily put out a final trailer a week or two before launch, but chose not to. They chose to continue promoting a product based on a build of the game that did not exist.
I don't know how many times this has to be repeated: this (and the fact that it were shown running on PS3 and people actually played it on their own PS3s during the network test / beta) is the point of this and the previous threads and NOT "buh buh but the game's still fine" / "why u care bout grapix so much??!" / "this is not as bad as Alien CM".
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