Support NeoGAF

[AdventureMike]

I think people are mad because they kept promoting and showing fake screen shots/ videos, not because the graphics suck.

This is exactly it.

The argument that people are angry over graphics needs to end here. This drivvle is being pushed and muddying the waters for the entire conversation. Other gaffers are coming in late in the thread and wondering why people are freaking out over a game that "Still looks pretty good."

It does! That was never the argument. The problem was that people were misled by bullshots right up until they loaded the game on their console. This has caused people to question either A) their purchases, B) whether they are going to purchase the game now that they've been misled and/or whether the PC version will look as good and C) whether they should trust marketing materials from any other Bamco/FROM games in the future.

The "fucking nerds whining over graphics" straw man has been being pushed by a few individuals that don't want negative opinions about their favorite series mussing up their launch party.

 

[Squalor]

Is this deception not used in almost all gaming products nowadays, and always has been? We constantly see bullshots of games that don't look like the final product. They hit a bump in the road with development and this statement shows they're being honest about it.

Why are you accepting this now commonplace deception as though it's okay?

People have a right to be upset about this, especially because it is becoming so prevalent. If people don't make a fuss about it, there is no impetus for companies to be truthful in the future.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Is this deception not used in almost all gaming products nowadays, and always has been? We constantly see bullshots of games that don't look like the final product. They hit a bump in the road with development and this statement shows they're being honest about it.

A shitty thing being commonplace doesn't really make it less shitty.

If only they'd stuck to their guns and the game ran at 20fps, we'd all be so much better off.

Well, there's always the PS3 version.

 

[RockTurtle]

remind me again,

the original director for the souls series was replaced by 2 directors from BAMCO or was it a FROM decision?

 

[GuardianE]

Considering the framerate in the console versions right now, I'm okay with the downgrades. Seriously, it's variable, but actually goes 45-60fps in some enclosed areas. That's a huge change from the original Dark Souls.

I'm sure From isn't happy about making the sacrifices either.

 

[Misterinenja]

They did show a lot of gameplay footage from the final version well before the release.

People are basically crying over Namco putting an old screenshot on the game box at this point. Yeah they downgraded the graphics and it sucks but this drama is crazy. Expecting an apology from a company over this. Hilarious!

If the graphical quality isn't good enough for you don't buy the game or wait for the PC version. Or just get over yourselves and get back to drooling over gifs of pretty games like you're supposed to do here in Gaming Side.

 

[outunderthestars]

Well, that's Bamco's fault, not From's. For all we know, From might not have had a damn clue what Bamco was up to with the marketing, while Bamco was more than happy to parade an older build to make the game look good.

Can you provide any proof of this outside of your love of From's earlier games? I know fans want to deflect any criticism away from a beloved developer, but is there any evidence that From somehow did not know what assets and trailers were being used?

 

[Aspirations26]

Everyone can bitch about this all they want. I'd rather have downgraded lighting than blighttown framerate again. Now for the pc version, I guess we will see what happens.

Btw, I played the beta and it ran like shit. So I'm happy they made these changes to the console version, it runs so much better.

 

[snesfanboy]

Not so much, because the game was pretty bad. We are talking about one of the best games in recent years with DS2. Its something different here.

i have just ordered the game, i have never played the beta so seeing the game run will not make me go "hey, the lighting here is off"

i've seen 2 camps here, those that don't mind and those that mind that the graphics have been downscaled

to me, the quality of the gameplay has to be seen completely separated from the issue of the grapics quality

couple of things to think over

1) if a company like EA had done the exact same thing as From/Bandai Namco, they would have could a shitstorm from just about everyone, because they are already painted with the black brush, it seems to me that From are regarded as some kind of heroes here and are forgiven for it
2) everyone here who has played Demon's Souls and Dark Souls, and loved it, would have bought this game if the quality of the graphics themselves (not the art, not the framerate, but textures and such) would have been of PS2/early Xbox360-PS3 quality if it was shown like that from the beginning

the issue here is that the graphical downgrade (that was maybe necessary) hasn't been mentioned, because they thought it would give their game a disadvantage or made it look bad, because they probably think that all potential new customers are vapid graphics whores and their PR/marketing department strongly advices against this

Dark Souls has entered the realm of AAA games (in terms of succes), From is probably finally making some decent money with their games and with such things come some filthy business practices along, we'll all have to deal with it

 

[Feindflug]

Framerate is really bad for me on my digital copy. I'd hazard a guess that it's below 25 most of the time.

After playing the 360 version there is no way I'm going back to the PS3 version, the difference is really big between the two. In fact the 360 version in some areas is running at >40fps almost all the time plus the controls feel much tighter too. If From decides to cap the frame-rate at 30fps the game would literally run at steady 30fps 99% of the time.

Anyone who has the choice between the two version should go with the 360 version unless he/she has a really big problem with tearing (which is not as noticeable as it is on the streams and youtube videos I've seen)...the game plays much better on the 360, plain and simple.

Also wtf to the guys saying that Demon's (lol) and Dark look better, the improvement in IQ alone is pretty big and graphics quality wise as a whole DS2 is at least comparable to the first game with some areas looking much better than everything in the first game.

 

[zkylon]

Everyone can bitch about this all they want. I'd rather have downgraded lighting than blighttown framerate again. Now for the pc version, I guess we will see what happens.

uhh there's people already saying framerate's consistently shit

game on consoles is basically ugly blightown

 

[hohoXD123]

Is this deception not used in almost all gaming products nowadays, and always has been? We constantly see bullshots of games that don't look like the final product. They hit a bump in the road with development and this statement shows they're being honest about it.

The fact that there are many games which don't resort to bullshots should be proof enough that this isn't some inevitable part of game development, but a shameful business practice which needs to be stamped out. Also, the issue here isn't just the use of bullshots, but that they were used right up until release, at least in many other games using bullshots we find out well in advance.

 

[marrec]

They did show a lot of gameplay footage from the final version well before the release.

People are basically crying over Namco putting an old screenshot on the game box at this point. Yeah they downgraded the graphics and it sucks but this drama is crazy. Expecting an apology from a company over this. Hilarious!

If the graphical quality isn't good enough for you don't buy the game or wait for the PC version. Or just get over yourselves and get back to drooling over gifs of pretty games like you're supposed to do here in Gaming Side.

People aren't used to hashtags not being listened too.

 

[GuardianE]

uhh there's people already saying framerate's consistently shit

game on consoles is basically ugly blightown

Maybe that's in an area I haven't reached yet, but so far Dark Souls II has a framerate average far far higher than Dark Souls.

 

[jacobeid]

This is a pretty bad answer that doesn't address concerns about the PC version.

 

[jyx]

"25 people in the west wont buy our game. buhu"

 

[Aspirations26]

uhh there's people already saying framerate's consistently shit

game on consoles is basically ugly blightown

Did you play it? The framerate isn't perfect of course, but it's never as bad as blighttown.

 

[Seanspeed]

Would be interested in seeing some pre-release screenshots which looked very similar to the final game.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=767774&highlight=dark+souls

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=752909&highlight=dark+souls

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=715640&highlight=dark+souls

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=707089&highlight=dark+souls

I don't know how close these are to the final game, but its certainly been known that the game doesn't look great for a while now.

 

[SJRB]

uhh there's people already saying framerate's consistently shit

game on consoles is basically ugly blightown

That's an overstatement at best, a gross lie at worst.

 

[Renekton]

uhh there's people already saying framerate's consistently shit

game on consoles is basically ugly blightown

It runs pretty okay for me, although PS3 version dips more than X360.

 

[Toxi]

uhh there's people already saying framerate's consistently shit

game on consoles is basically ugly blightown

Except it's not. Have you actually played Blighttown on consoles? Or the rest of Dark Souls and Demon's Souls?

 

[Zombie James]

A balance so delicate it can completly fall apart without notice, warning, or explanation.

 

[jet1911]

Yep. It's getting insane. I like good graphics as much as the next guy, but it's just all too much.

It's getting annoying lately. Something isn't the way it was showed 2 months ago? Those fucking liars! Crazy hyperboles are way better than common sense right?

 

[SargerusBR]

remind me again,

the original director for the souls series was replaced by 2 directors from BAMCO or was it a FROM decision?

The 2 directors are FROM employees and worked on Armored Core and Another Century

 

[elyetis]

If only they'd stuck to their guns and the game ran at 20fps, we'd all be so much better off.

If the game ran at 20fps on my computer ( marketed as lead platform ), I would lower the graphic options.

Some people appear to have forgotten that being a gamer is about being a fan of gaming, not just being a fan of graphics or moaning the loudest at the least provocation.

Yup people complaining are people who only care about graphism; that's why I complain about that DS2 case, while also 'promoting' a game like One Way Heroics ( just because of how much I only care about the fact it look sooo good ).

 

[Candescence]

Can you provide any proof of this outside of your love of From's earlier games? I know fans want to deflect any criticism away from a beloved developer, but is there any evidence that From somehow did not know what assets and trailers were being used?

I don't have proof, but it's fairly easy to infer - marketing is the publisher's job, not the developer's, for starters. And why would the developer bother checking the marketing material for their own game? Especially for changes that were probably at the last minute and practically an obvious rush-job?

The outrage is somewhat justified, but for God's sake, let's not accuse the developer of something that can be more easily explained by Bamco's marketing department being a great big bag of dicks. Halon's Razor is in effect here, to some degree at least, From probably didn't realize how much of a stink would be raised over this, and might still not be aware of how much people are upset.

 

[Haunted]

Well, there's always the PS3 version.

ice cold

A balance so delicate it can completly fall apart without notice, warning, or explanation.

Game should cost a dollar less for each lit sconce they removed!

 

[sirap]

Game runs terrible on the PS3, frequent dips to lower 20s

Still, I love the game. Can't wait for the PC version..if I can't have the original lighting/assets atleast I'll have 4k.

 

[RK9039]

PS3 still averages around 25fps right? and went down to 14fps in the comparison video.

Enjoy the balance. I think there's a ring in the game that increases the fps, I believe it's called the Ring of Greater Balance.

 

[zkylon]

Maybe that's in an area I haven't reached yet, but so far Dark Souls II has a framerate average far far higher than Dark Souls.

Did you play it? The framerate isn't perfect of course, but it's never as bad as blighttown.

That's an overstatement at best, a gross lie at worst.

It runs pretty okay for me, although PS3 version dips more than X360.

Except it's not. Have you actually played Blighttown on consoles? Or the rest of Dark Souls and Demon's Souls?

just relaying what i've read yo

should've added an "apparently" to my second sentence doe

 

[butts]

The downgrade sucks but it's pretty gross that everyone immediately jumps to assuming this is all evil intent. Most likely they were struggling to hit the mark for large sections of the game and in the end things didn't work out.

Still hopeful the PC version can bring back some that was lost.

 

[ScriptedReality]

The downgrade sucks but it's pretty gross that everyone immediately jumps to assuming this is all evil intent. Most likely they were struggling to hit the mark for large sections of the game and in the end things didn't work out.

Still hopeful the PC version can bring back some that was lost.

The problem is them using the better footage for promotion.

 

[legacyzero]

Well, this was expected...

 

[ZeroRay]

PS3 runs in the upper 20's most of the time. FROM should have at least given an option to disable VSYNC on PS3 but considering the options they gave for DS1 on PC...

 

[Sullichin]

uhh there's people already saying framerate's consistently shit

game on consoles is basically ugly blightown

just relaying what i've read yo

It's absolutely not as bad as Blighttown on PS3. I don't think I could take a whole game that runs that poorly. Overall it feels smoother to me than the first game on PS3, but with frequent noticeable drops.

 

[TatteredHat]

I'm very curious how certain people are coming up with sub 20-fps experiences on the PS3 version, I've clocked in over 60 hours so far and never have I had anything even remotely as bad as Blighttown, I've barely encountered frame-drops at all.

 

[zkylon]

It's absolutely not as bad as Blighttown on PS3. I don't think I could take a whole game that runs that poorly. Overall it feels smoother to me than the first game on PS3, but with frequent noticeable drops.

yea in general i didn't think it'd be taken that extreme, my bad for the way i put it

was just trying to say that it wasn't performing or looking well overall

 

[Haunted]

The problem is them using the better footage for promotion.

It's doubly ironic because From made their name with the Souls games by respecting the player's intelligence.

If only that same respect for the customer would extend to the marketing department. :/

 

[RK9039]

I'm very curious how certain people are coming up with sub 20-fps experiences on the PS3 version, I've clocked in over 60 hours so far and never have I had anything even remotely as bad as Blighttown, I've barely encountered frame-drops at all.

Most people who haven't played the game are going by this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YJPVIA8nmM

 

[fuzzyreactor]

I'm very curious how certain people are coming up with sub 20-fps experiences on the PS3 version, I've clocked in over 60 hours so far and never have I had anything even remotely as bad as Blighttown, I've barely encountered frame-drops at all.

Same here.

Strangely it seems like the performance of the game got better as I played it more, even going back to earlier areas.


It is w/o question smoother than Dark Souls 1 was

 

[Momentary]

Why are people mad that 8 year old hardware is struggling with a new game that was ported from the PC version?

 

[Windom Earle]

Downgraded and still a technical mess. I am disappoint.

 

[fuzzyreactor]

Downgraded and still a technical mess. I am disappoint.

Not really a technical mess but okay

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

Then I think it's only good for the future, moving forward, that only gameplay that is ready to be shown, be put out on display. Not all the glitz and glamor that will never be when it hits retail. Maybe we should be in the era of release now (Apple mantra) instead of release [insert month, date, year].

 

[zma1013]

I'm very curious how certain people are coming up with sub 20-fps experiences on the PS3 version, I've clocked in over 60 hours so far and never have I had anything even remotely as bad as Blighttown, I've barely encountered frame-drops at all.

I haven't seen anything as bad as Blighttown either and I haven't really seen any frame-drops, that is to say, I haven't seen the framerate noticeably go down from it's basic average... but that seems to imply that its general average is good in the first place. The whole game on PS3 just simply seems to be running at a low framerate most of the time. Somewhere in the mid 20s I'd guess without having something to make actual measurements. Def. not 30.

 

[zephervack]

Then I think it's only good for the future, moving forward, that only gameplay that is ready to be shown, be put out on display. Not all the glitz and glamor that will never be when it hits retail. Maybe we should be in the era of release now (Apple mantra) instead of release [insert month, date, year].

No, the problem is that games used to get better looking as time went by, not worse.

And not worse to this degree, the game looks completely different than their promotional material. Its obvious none of their promo stuff ran on the machines they were targeting for the actual product.

 

[butts]

The problem is them using the better footage for promotion.

I get that but I guess I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming they struggled up until the end to make that footage possible until the very end.

 

[nbthedude]

Can you provide any proof of this outside of your love of From's earlier games? I know fans want to deflect any criticism away from a beloved developer, but is there any evidence that From somehow did not know what assets and trailers were being used?

Can you provide any evidence that EITHER Namco or From clearly represented video of the game as from the final or near final console version as looking like the earlier versions?

Nobody has sufficiently demonstrated that Namco said "Here is a video of the final/near final game on console" yet everyone immediately jumps to the idea that they are trying to intentionally scam and deceive people. It's a kangaroo court if I ever saw one. I know it's more fun to be outraged, but I wish calmer heads would eventually prevail.

People who are bummed at how the final game turned out are completely understandable and I sympathize, especially if a PS3 or 360 is their only option. But all this other rage about their version of the game not looking like some poorly defined build on some undefined platform at some point in development is absurd.

 

[marrec]

Not really a technical mess but okay

The longer this goes unanswered the more and more ridiculous the hyperbole will get! We demand retribution!

 

[Kieli]

A developer with a minimum of 5+ years of experience not knowing the limits of the PS3?

Shocking.

Spoiler

Even if they're not tech wizards, I highly doubt From didn't know what they could and couldn't do on the PS3 well before release date. I still firmly stand by my opinion that the demo/trailers leading up to release were never made for release. I don't have proof of this, and I don't care if you don't share my opinion.