We don't need more hyperbole in these discussions. Please don't talk about the game based on hearsay.
It's messy. For example, there's a glitch where you turn human after being summoned that was common enough some people thought it was a feature.
From Software responds to Dark Souls II graphics downgrade concerns
- Thread starter Poetic.Injustice
- Start date
This whole thing is really blown out of proportion. But I guess a Dark Souls backlash was inevitable. When anything becomes too popular, only a matter of time til it gets some push back.
The game looks better than Demon Souls and Dark Souls, and runs well. And it plays just as good. I'd rather the game run better with some slight graphic cuts, than be a frame rate nightmare.
Next time any developer shows any initial game footage, they should just drop a disclaimer that the final version may not look that way. Dealing with the gaming community is like walking on eggshells sometimes, smh.
The game looks better than Demon Souls and Dark Souls, and runs well. And it plays just as good. I'd rather the game run better with some slight graphic cuts, than be a frame rate nightmare.
Next time any developer shows any initial game footage, they should just drop a disclaimer that the final version may not look that way. Dealing with the gaming community is like walking on eggshells sometimes, smh.
DrROBschiz
Member
New engine
Maybe thr consequences of the engine switch were not perceived
They focused on PC and had to optimize the new engine for consoles...
Hard to say what happened without honest insider commentary
PetriP-TNT
Member
Bwahahaha.
So I just looked at the screenshots on the back of the black armor editon. They're two really small screens that barely show any of the environment. They don't appear to be pre-downgrade areas with the nicer lighting effects. What screenshots on the back of the box are people referring to when they say it represents an earlier version? Does the normal version have different screenshots?
zephervack
Member
My issue with this is that before (think Killzone 2), they would release CGI videos without HUD and you knew it was a target render.
What they did here is show us something that looked amazing with HUD and said it was playable, then made a huge switch.
DrROBschiz
Member
This is what worries me far more
For them to switch engines, build on pc and not deliver something fundamentally better that could be easily ported to next gen would seriously irk me
I don't get why everyone is so worked up about this.
Game looks better than the previous Souls games. Yeah it doesn't look as good as the reveal but the game is awesome. And if you're so worried about devs lying or misleading you, wait til reviews and impressions come out before buying games. I bet most of the people complaining bought it anyway and are enjoying the game itself even though it is downgraded in the graphics department.
Game looks better than the previous Souls games. Yeah it doesn't look as good as the reveal but the game is awesome. And if you're so worried about devs lying or misleading you, wait til reviews and impressions come out before buying games. I bet most of the people complaining bought it anyway and are enjoying the game itself even though it is downgraded in the graphics department.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Quoting this for emphasis. I'm pretty shocked by the frame rate in the 360 version, to be honest. I went in expecting 30 at most, with requisite struggles in particular areas. And yes, the tearing is nowhere near as bad either. Good stuff. Hopefully the PC version fixes some of the shoddy textures and adds more dynamic lighting/AO and I'm good to go on double dipping.
Fair enough. But I cant deal with it. I'm a paying consumer and want the best experience possible and what From showed over and over again until the very last day before releasing DS2 to retail was a deception. They showed us a really good looking and graphically improved game to the end and the marketing used the "beta" screens and videos too. This game was playable on PS3 with that fidelity at TGS too.
A case like this is something that doesnt happen really often, and its up to us costumers to show From and Namco, that we care about things like this. I'm sad of those apologies and excuses with PR bla bla bla and marketing shit. Dark Souls is a series that has its target audience not within some FIFA or CoD gamers, but more devoted core gamers and things like this downgrade are coupled with a harsh backlash. The game could be as good as it wants and the fact that DS2 is great makes it worse because I want that game to have the look it deserves and what was shown for nearly a year.
RockTurtle
Member
should have stuck it out with the same guy
*or get those two guys to start working on a new chromehounds*
It would be pretty disappointing, after seeing what that one dragon skeleton room looks like in the game..but I'm going to expect the worst and maybe be surprised.
DrROBschiz
Member
They still delivered a stellar product
It would be different if this was a perfect storm of bad circumstances but people are quickly focusing on Bamcos lack of transparency I marketing materials
Thats really the only negative aspect of an otherwise great release.
SweetJohnnyCage
Member
"Continuity in graphical quality"
Did you ever go to Blighttown on 360 or PS3 in DS1? As long as that never happens again in DS2 (which it doesn't), I'm totally fine with the performance of the game on consoles.
I'm trying to figure out who you're talking about. It's not From, unless you seriously believe Demon's Souls was their first PS3 game.
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
Maybe the reason why they looked better as they came out was because they showed them in their true form at the events, not the hypothetical of what it could be but scaled down come launch. I just think we need to be 100% real so we know what to expect. I'm not begging for them to be super specific on tech stuff but for the what we are going to see... Make it transparent.
No-Mans Wharf on PS3 has some serious surpassing Blighttown potential.
Althernatively, they could show the fucking game that will be released before it's released. Even Ubisoft does this, the company that has made a science out of bullshit pre-release promotional material; The same company that caused GAF to lose its collective shit with the Watch Dogs downgrade (which, again, was revealed far before the release date).
They delivered a good product this time.
We shouldn't treat any companies any differently because of who the company is or because of the overall quality of the product.
It's an insidious thing to do, and no one should do it.
TatteredHat
Member
There's nothing as horrid as Lost Izalith in DS2, I'd consider the game a huge improvement on that point alone.
FairXchange
Member
They addressed the downgrade, the game is still absolutely incredible, not sure what more there is to say or discuss. I'm sure those waiting on the PC version will get the definitive version in terms of graphics.
dragonfart28
Banned
This never would have been an issue if they didn't set the expectation at the beginning.
Probably would have sold the same amount.
Probably would have sold the same amount.
MMaRsu
Gold Member
They don't give a fuck. I tweeted a reviewer who has been in the business of reviewing games for over 15 years now, and he works for the biggest gaming site in The Netherlands.
Sadly, he did also not give a fuck as he stated that there was not one moment that the downgraded lightning engine made the game worse. I replied and said he needs to inform the public and visitors of his site... He did put out a tweet saying that the lightning engine was downgraded but no mention in a review or anything.
The press doesn't give a fuck, they seem to be some goddamn lapdogs for publishers or something. I really am thinking of starting a gaming website where reviewers are just bloody honest and don't give a fuck about what publishers/devs think.
Moon_frogger
Member
I'm ok with this. Actually, I'm so done with this it's not even funny.
This is maybe honestly the first time there have been a huge upswell on GAF that I look at with complete befuddlement. Yeah the Mass Effect 3 stuff was overblown but that ending was shit. And Bioshock Infinite had some great visual and audio design and solid mechanics, but it was rightly lampooned for bad storytelling and level design. And anything involving not being able to actually play the games you buy on launch because servers are borked is absolute bullshit that should never be viewed as acceptable.
But um, pre-release footage from undefined platforms at an unspecified point of a game's development not looking like the final build of a particular version of the game is a crazy thing to rage about as far as I'm concerned. Especially when the underlying game is still really good. People have seemingly lost their damn minds with some of these comments.
Beerman462
Member
To me the frame-rate was pretty bad in the tutorial area. I'm 30 hours in now and it seems to hold 30fps mostly.
Really? Had no framerate issues there whatsoever. Under what conditions was the framerate in that area worse than Blighttown for you?
lazer_bean
Member
the only DSII back cover I could find is this one:
edit: ah sorry got the wrong one!
On amazon, of all the 38 images there are for dark souls 2 ps3, not one features actual ps3 gameplay
TatteredHat
Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that looks like a Dark Souls 1 cover. EDIT: ah, you linked the wrong one.
Until you managed single digits, you have not even reached Upper Blighttown level.
It seems to be a mix of both. And then some really crazy nutters who think they made a fake version of the game just to trick people.
Like I said before, I understand people being bummed about the final game not looking as good as they would hope, but the conspiracy/scam stuff is just a bunch of people yelling without providing any substantial evidence that Namco presented versions of the game as final/near final builds of the console version. It's all seemingly a bunch of implications, assumptions and vague associations.
DrROBschiz
Member
See my high expectations immediately focused into the PC version as soon as it was announced.
Especially when they said "New Engine" and "PC Lead Platform"
Somewhere along the line people started expecting great things from the console versions as well. Something went wrong and they should habe never shifted focus the minute they thought the console versions couldn't deliver performance past the preceding games.
Either way I never felt deceived since it was originally marketed as the PC version being the true next gen version visually
I onky expected a slight upgrade from Dark Souls 1 on consoles. What a strange blunder but I suppose I can see the deception angle. Its just that it seems minor. Especially when the sequel is on par or better than the game that came before it
zephervack
Member
No downgrade media shown before release and absolutely no news about the PC version.
I understand if they cant get some of the stuff running on consoles, but if the PC version doesnt look like the previews, then all the stuff they showed was pre-rendered.
So guys, It has been said countless time, but I'll say it again: the problem is NOT the game. The problem is the way it was advertised, which was pure and simply lying. Straight face lying.
Dark Souls have a great community, and those people would buy the game regardless of FAKE new lighting engine or not. So this attitude is downright disrespectful to the community and fans and From together with Namco Bandai completely deserve the backslash they are getting.
The more people defend these practices the more it will happen. Ubisoft deserved it for Watch Dogs, Sony deserved it for Killzone 2 E3 2005 reveal. NamcoBandai and From deserve it for DSII. The game is great, community was there to support it and they did not need to lie.
Dark Souls have a great community, and those people would buy the game regardless of FAKE new lighting engine or not. So this attitude is downright disrespectful to the community and fans and From together with Namco Bandai completely deserve the backslash they are getting.
The more people defend these practices the more it will happen. Ubisoft deserved it for Watch Dogs, Sony deserved it for Killzone 2 E3 2005 reveal. NamcoBandai and From deserve it for DSII. The game is great, community was there to support it and they did not need to lie.
spacemonkeynation
Member
I'm under the impression that none of the media used to advertise the game (including the pictures on the back of the box and on digital distributor's store pages) has been of the final game.* If that's the case I think it's potentially a great case for false advertising, unless From Soft. covered their asses with legal text at the bottom of ads. There is legal precedent involving games in the past that were advertising using CG and not specifying that it did not represent actual gameplay.
*actually are the release trailers the final code? I haven't been following this really closely, just waiting to hear about the PC version.
lazer_bean
Member
yeah but it actually made me realize that I'm not even sure if the screenshots on the back cover of Dark Souls are real either
Depends on what you do there but complex areas and physics force the game to run at low teens in framerate. I cant remember blighttown being that bad. I had some serious input delay too, which is essential for this game. Maybe that made it so bad compared to DS1.
Can't agree with that. There are areas in DS2 that look way worse than anything in previous Souls games, even 5-2 etc. I'm seriously wondering whether interns designed the Shaded Woods/Ruins or Tseldora. Some of that poor texture work is unbelievable. It's as if these areas were left in the "rough 3D sketch" phase and they forgot to do the detail passes on them.
The inconsistency of DS2's art design is staggering.
Yeah no. Completely untrue. Please stop making these false claims, guys. They are not really helping the actual cause here.
Lol I just played No Mans Wharf and that's not true at all
You've more from hyperbole to hyper bowl.
The changes here are much less drastic and a obvious function of chipping away to get back at performance.
ACM had a bull demo created from scratch and the rest of the game was a mess not even accounting for the gfx reduction issues.
MMaRsu
Gold Member
I don't care about the downgrade, I think bullshitting your paying customers is something I'm personally annoyed with. And the fact that nobody from the press is picking this up and making a REAL story about it.
Showing beautiful screenshots and gameplay trailers and then pulling the old switcheroo and releasing a game that looks nothing like previously shown gameplay/screenshots is not OK in my book.
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