I have to call bullshit on that, because they were going for balance in graphical quality!
So they lowered those parts we saw, to make them stand out less!
From Software responds to Dark Souls II graphics downgrade concerns
- Thread starter Poetic.Injustice
- Start date
I have to call bullshit on that, because they were going for balance in graphical quality!
So they lowered those parts we saw, to make them stand out less!
That's crazy talk.
Art direction wise in a lot of areas of course. Dark Souls 2 still has some pretty damn amazing art direction as well. The opening areas of DS II (Things Betwixt and Majula) 'destroy' the Asylum and Firelink Shrine in my opinion. If I'm speaking about purely graphics, which I was, than it's no contest. Plus I can actually play DS II at a decent framerate on the 360 version, that helps a lot in the looks department.
swazzyswess
Member
Yeah, Programmer #86 at From has really been screwing over consumers for years and deserves to be called lazy by some internet warrior. Are you fucking serious?
It looks even better with dsfix and hd graphics/ui mod.
CountAntonius
Member
I agree with both of these points. There is a middle ground somewhere where you simply ask for an explanation without attacking people and making up conspiracy theories.
From what I've gathered the parts that ended up looking worse where mostly the ones that were supposed to be bathed in better lighting. Looks like they didn't have the time to tweak those areas when they realized the lighting was too much for the console versions.
This is more of a publisher and marketing problem, than a developer problem.
They didn't downgrade the game for fun or lazyness, but they did continue using the bullshit promotional material to net more sales from misinformed people.
DrROBschiz
Member
Thats the TGS demo exactly
Not the full retail review copy all the other major outlets got.
look at the footage
If anything its a commentary video on old footage. Not a full copy of the game
CheesecakeRecipe
Stormy Grey
About as serious as your corporate apologist attitude is, sure.
swazzyswess
Member
From Software isn't a corporation.
CheesecakeRecipe
Stormy Grey
And this is why no one takes what you have to say seriously.
swazzyswess
Member
A corporation is a business entity whose owners are separate and distinct from its operators. Can you go out and buy From stock?
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Absolute horseshit.
What the hell...
Only the bolded happened for me. The rest, nope. I really wonder what's wrong with your disc/PS3....
The most egregious were the delay in showing the menu after you hit start, and the loading times. The sound effects de-synch happened to me as well but really rarely, and only in some specific parts.
I'm not saying your experience isn't true or valid, but it's definitely anecdotal. I have played most of the game (not beaten yet but close) on PS3 and my experience vastly differs from yours.
If only. That would be reasonable enough. Now it's "at worst, vitriolic hyperbolic rage and talk of lawsuits".
Indeed. So I really gotta wonder at people raging at the false advertisement; where were those people in those screenshots threads? Were they saying "nuh uh this game looks good, can't wait"? So confusing. First the game looks like shit. Then it's released, and the retail version often looks better than some of those screenshots, but some other places look worse and it's suddenly OMG LIES? I don't get it.
Hahahaha
You might want to just not repeat disinformation next time? Calling the game "an ugly Blighttown" is a complete lie. The framerate has been 95% stable for me. I noticed some rare dips every now and then, and nothing ever as bad as Blighttown.
I wouldn't go that far. I agree Shaded Woods looks crappy, I couldn't help but notice the bland texture. I thought Tseldora was cool looking for the most part though. I thought Harvest Valley looked far worse than Tseldora, to be honest. But other than these two places, I think the game looks fine, not enough to say "staggeringly inconsistent".
Indeed.
What? Which boss is that? Spoiler-tag if necessary.
Agreed 100%. Calling Dark Souls 2 a "lazy" product is infuriating. So much amazing content in this game, both artistic and gameplay-wise. Man.
So people are attacking the devs now?
C'mon, it's the consoles that aren't powerful enough, would any of you think that it would be better to have a good looking game at a shitty framerate? Not me, hopefully DS2 will come out on the new twins, too.
EDIT: Oh, and I hope the PC version will hold up against these old trailers.
C'mon, it's the consoles that aren't powerful enough, would any of you think that it would be better to have a good looking game at a shitty framerate? Not me, hopefully DS2 will come out on the new twins, too.
EDIT: Oh, and I hope the PC version will hold up against these old trailers.
Lucent
Member
Definitely wasn't that way for me at all. At all. Was smooth just as any other area I was in. Even the Gutter, which kind of reminded me of blight town, wasn't like this.
I seriously think it's from a system to system basis or something. Everyone seems to be having different problems.
I understand the arguments against From, I'm sure it sucked just as much for them to not be able to hit their original aims.
But some of you weekend warriors are acting like right fucking cunts. Jesus, does perspective even exist in your world or is some elaborate Internet joke I'm not in on?
But some of you weekend warriors are acting like right fucking cunts. Jesus, does perspective even exist in your world or is some elaborate Internet joke I'm not in on?
From were still promoting the game as if it was like the old version a week before the release of the game, Just remember these things can only be published by From permission.
Nothing about that sentiment has anything to do with being a corporate apologist - it's called having tact and not blindly insulting people over the internet flippantly. The level of discourse in this thread is really disheartening, even if there is a legitimate issue here it's long been buried by nastiness and baseless speculation.
dynamitejim
Member
The TGS demo was being played September 19th, less than a month later was the Japanese PS3 network test. The network test had the downgraded lighting, but still had the deep black levels. So we know the downgrading of the lighting effect preceded the downplaying of the darkness in the game. Not to mention, of the thousands of people who played the network test or watched footage of it, no one seemed to notice the difference in the torch/bonfire lighting effect. The idea of a bait and switch seems silly in light of the fact people were seeing what was basically the retail version ~5 months before release.
I think you mean publishers, and the executives behind all of this. The developers themselves are not to blame. The execs who approve of marketing and the people publishing the game are to blame.
As a developer, I think we all know that we would love nothing more than to be super open with the public about what is going on. We'd love nothing more than to have people sit down and listen to the reasons we had to do things. Unfortunately, developers don't get to do that, they aren't allowed to do that, lest they get some sort of retribution from the people who sign their paychecks. It's bad business sometimes to be so open, and so therefore the business people up above dont allow the devs to be open.
CheesecakeRecipe
Stormy Grey
Sorry I don't find nit-picking at a piece of terminology when he's been weakly defending this practice since it first hit the road to be a legitimate thing to respond to.
The downgradathon has been seen several times by multiple different companies in a very short timespan. After all of the shit people have put up with over the previous gen, some of us are a little tired of it. FROM and Namco are both at blame here and their joint "statement" makes that ever more clear. They may be one of the good guys but this is not, in any way, a good guy move.
DrROBschiz
Member
I dont think the malice is justified still
There is clearly some media and marketing confusion between the two disparate versions of the game
We wont get true closure and answers until the PC version hits either way but my predicr after seeing everything is that the TGS build is the PC equivalent
The April reveal is a nice proof of concept as intended
And lastly the compromising console version wasn't truly revealed until the network test.
All that said this is the optimistic approach and
Yes From/Bamco should have been much more clear about version disparities during the development and marketing of the game.
This all folows the happy assumption that the PC version will be awesome
There is clearly some media and marketing confusion between the two disparate versions of the game
We wont get true closure and answers until the PC version hits either way but my predicr after seeing everything is that the TGS build is the PC equivalent
The April reveal is a nice proof of concept as intended
And lastly the compromising console version wasn't truly revealed until the network test.
All that said this is the optimistic approach and
Yes From/Bamco should have been much more clear about version disparities during the development and marketing of the game.
This all folows the happy assumption that the PC version will be awesome
End result of this for me: I will be wary of From's trailers and prerelease material in the future. (I do this already for pretty much every game company)
Gonna go back to playing this game now. Curious to know how many people in this thread have spent more time in the thread than playing the game.
Gonna go back to playing this game now. Curious to know how many people in this thread have spent more time in the thread than playing the game.
CadetMahoney
Member
PS4 edition, now with lighting DLC option.
CheesecakeRecipe
Stormy Grey
A much more elegant man than I. I will defer to your post and take my leave here, as to not mud the waters any further.
I hate doing this up-posting shit but you posted mere seconds afterwords so
I won't point a finger of blame at one employee over another nor am I going to start a pitchfork mob on QA dude #11's house. I do ask that a development house as a whole, however, do their best to keep their final product as it was shown off and talked about extensively in the reveal interviews. I do not feel like this was "their best" and there are all manner of reasons why this could be. I may never know exactly why beyond speculation from players.
throwawayname
Member
I really really want the pc version to look as good as possible but something tells me that it will be just like the console versions in 1080p/60fps and it makes me sad.
A storm is coming...
A storm is coming...
Garcia
Member
Yes, I agree that the visual fidelity of several areas in Dark Souls 2 are leaps ahead of those in the first game (console version), no way to counter that. We can always agree to disagree when it comes to personal taste, however. For me, the transition from Things Betwixt to Majula was the first sign of what would later become a very schizophrenic game without any sense of cohesion or direction.
The level of detail and craftsmanship put into the Undead Asylum is leaps ahead of that of Things Betwixt. They way From elegantly compensated all the repeated textures in Dark Souls 1 by adding stochastic geometry here and there speaks of an attention to detail that's missing in most locations of DS2.
Even Lost Izalith with all of its technical problems was a surreal and imaginative location and that's something I feel is (edit) mostly missing in the sequel.
The whole game? Every zone?
They just don't care it seems.
We got the biggest downgrade in gaming since Aliens: Colonial Marines and From decided to not even say it's done for performance reasons but kept on bullshitting people because it seems like VG sites went soft on them (and some even defending them) and so From knew they can get with it.
The funniest thing in their response this is they mentioned resources when they hired Blur Studio (people say they are expensive as hell) to make a big VGA CGI trailer for them.
TriniTrin
war of titties grampa
Just so I am clear, people are mad that FROM promoted graphics and things that were not in the final version.... That makes sense, your media for marketing and promotion should be accurate to the final version of the game.
That is what people are mad about right? How can people try to defend that?
That is what people are mad about right? How can people try to defend that?
Garcia
Member
My favorite location in Dark Souls 2 was the
Dragons Shrine.
Iron Keep
Majula (exteriors)
Cathedral of Blue
copelandmaster
Member
Awesome work again.
;_;
This is terrible.
However, the way the shadows taper off on the border between the light and dark areas in the retail version looks neat.
Too bad everything else is so unbalanced looking.
Hey now young man, remember where we are before speaking, "This is a neutral ground where facts and evidence, presented within the confines of civil, inclusive discourse, prevail through careful moderation."
I've only been on GAF for a little over a year now, but I've finally manage to find the bad parts bumped up to the front page that everyone whispers about.
TheCongressman1
Member
I don't appreciate Namco's response. It sidesteps the issue completely, whether that is on purpose or not.
I don't see how people keep missing what the point of all this is, someone explains it almost every 4 posts.
I don't see how people keep missing what the point of all this is, someone explains it almost every 4 posts.
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
Look at the sequence when he goes to the door. The textures and details like specular maps compared to the TGS footage.
One corridor vs an entire area:
PC April reveal:
TGS:
Retail:
quoted for truth.
Nope. False. Only some bonfires cast dynamic shadows.
lazer_bean
Member
oh you know a lot of people here can actually read GAF and do lots of other things at the same time. They work, they play, they eat, etc...
example:
three hours ago:
and one hour ago:
there's nothing wrong with multitasking
MikeXXIeaf
Banned
That doesn't justify the assumption that what you saw wasn't the PC version, or that reveal tailer was running on PS4/One. What I definitely don't understand is why that assumption is supposed to be excusable.
Well i'm actually not gonna buy the game (at full price) if the downgrade is that drastic on PC too, so that's an easy guess.
lazer_bean
Member
what and... what ?!
The asumption that the gameplay footage we saw was not the PC version ?
The asumption now is that it was the pc version. Everyone is hoping that it is the pc version. When i say "everyone" it's just pc gamers. Console gamers got what we got (I still haven't got it).
I never heard of the asumption that the reveal trailer was running on ps4/One. It was a CG trailer so I don't see how it would matter because no one expects CG qualitygameplay on a ps3 but really I haven't read any post saying that it was running on ps4/One.
I don't think they'll port DkSII to next gen platforms at all.
I don't understand the end of your post. Actually I'm not sure I understood the rest of it either.
oh you know a lot of people here can actually read GAF and do lots of other things at the same time. They work, they play, they eat, etc...
example:
three hours ago:
and one hour ago:
there's nothing wrong with multitasking
lol!
I keep doing some problems, then checking back on this thread
CountAntonius
Member
They did always say they would share more about the PC version closer to release. Hopefully that means weeks before and not minutes lol.
Yeah. The game has way better IQ than Dark Souls 1 on consoles as well (it's not sub hd anymore) and runs better (at least on 360). IMO it looks a lot better, I really can't agree with people that say it looks worse than ds1.
Oh yeah, forgot to mention, I've only played it with DSFix at 60fps, didn't even try it without it. But other than DSFix, the only mods I use are for high res text and PS3 buttons.
I guess that's a fair response. It's vague but It confirms they couldn't get the thing to run any better then that.
I will be very upset if the PC version has nothing new to offer however. If they are going the parity route then what the hell is the point of this month and a half long delay?
I will be very upset if the PC version has nothing new to offer however. If they are going the parity route then what the hell is the point of this month and a half long delay?
Well I'm glad that you admitted that.
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