For what it's worth I'm 40 hours in and no enemy has done this so far.
From Software responds to Dark Souls II graphics downgrade concerns
- Thread starter Poetic.Injustice
- Start date
For what it's worth I'm 40 hours in and no enemy has done this so far.
SeventhSon
Member
Where is this information? If true, it makes perfect sense to me. It feels like DSII was made by a "B team."
I'm still going to buy this game when it releases on PC just because the previous was one of my favourites from last gen, but seeing all these weird animations and reading about how the world doesn't feel as connected and how the lore is mostly below par (My biggest fear when hearing about DaS2 being ages into the future was that all the ties to the previous game were just going to be "oh it's so long ago it's name has been forgotten ooOOoo" which seems to be what it is for the most part so far), is pretty saddening honestly, especially with that post about most of the main people who make the souls games what they are not being a part of this makes it all feel a bit phoned in.
Not that bothered about the graphics and lighting downgrades though. Well, the graphics downgrades are disappointing if they make their way over to PC as well but as far as the lighting goes, replacing my shield with a torch for a load of dark areas just doesn't sound fun.
Not that bothered about the graphics and lighting downgrades though. Well, the graphics downgrades are disappointing if they make their way over to PC as well but as far as the lighting goes, replacing my shield with a torch for a load of dark areas just doesn't sound fun.
Reubeucent
Neo Member
And I won't be buying DS2 because of this bait and switch. Tired of developers just lying to their fans and then going, "oh, gee, sorry we lied to you..." and then the defense force coming in to form a bulwark of ignorance just because the devs admitted to outright lying. Like that earns them any sort of respect on any level.
I'm sure some of the people in this thread have see the specs on steam or elsewhere for the PC version. Do you really think those recommended specs are needed to run a game that looks like this, if it runs correctly? Add that on top of them removing the higher quality screen shots from the steam page, the month and a half of a delay for the PC release and what do you get? A shitty port.
I'm sure some of the people in this thread have see the specs on steam or elsewhere for the PC version. Do you really think those recommended specs are needed to run a game that looks like this, if it runs correctly? Add that on top of them removing the higher quality screen shots from the steam page, the month and a half of a delay for the PC release and what do you get? A shitty port.
Down here, someone compared the credits to the other 2 Souls games.
Not many from previous games worked on DS2. I'm surprised DS2 turned out as well as it did, without Miyazaki and others.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
The lighting effects downgrades were minor if anything. They are still there, just not as strong or pronounced in some areas,
Playing through all those areas (represented by tiny compressed gifs posted here) & I barely noticed them looking that different from the original footage.
Without Miyazaki? Look at the list again.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
Can you take a direct screen grab of the area where
Darkdiver Grandahl
The textures look incredibly good in that area, especially when they are all lit up by the lighting to the portal.
luckygodzilla
Member
Well that's odd. I've played roughly 90 hours myself, and the only enemy I have ever seen fall off a cliff was one of those mummy knights in lost Bastille. Honestly the pathfinding for dark souls 2 is (in my opinion) leaps and bounds better than the first one.
Still, I'm interested in seeing if I can replicate these pathing errors later tonight, are there any areas where this happens frequently?
While i do understand the frustration, and the downgrade IS disappointing.
The souls series thrived on the backs of consumers who were willing to value gameplay and core mechanics over graphical fidelity.
Honestly, once you get over the graphics, the game is great. It's more souls, what more could you have possibly needed...
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
I can't tell you how many bloodstains I seen of players doing the exact same thing.
Can't really blame the A.I. for falling into a pit or rolling back over an edge when real humans being aren't any better.
I personally never saw an enemy die from going into the depths in the Shrine of Amana, but I must have died over a dozen times to that.
sublimit
Banned
Yes without Miyazaki.Stop playing dumb.
http://www.edge-online.com/features...m-dark-souls-ii-and-the-future-of-the-series/
RoboGeorgeForeman
Banned
The boss fights that I had issues were the Ruin Sentinels (one pathed into a pillar the entire fight while the other wouldn't stop blocking unless I was half the boss room away), The Rotten (walked into the boss fog gate for half of the fight while I tee'd off on its backside). I had mummies and royal soldiers walking off ledges primarily in Lost Bastille and Sinner's Rise, but also the turtle knights in Forest of Fallen Giants and the katana wielding enemies in Iron Keep. It happened quite a few times in other places, but those were the ones that instantly come to mind.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
luckygodzilla
Member
Christ, that's some nasty sounding stuff with the bosses. Wonder what caused it since this is my first time hearing about it. I'll be sure to check out the other areas later today.
I never really thought it was a graphics point, more than a visual aesthetic. For me, Dark Souls 2 is off in many ways not because graphics are bad or even because there's a huge difference between what they showed previously and what is now, but because there's no actual grounded feeling to the world. I often get the feeling that different teams worked on different levels not knowing what the big picture should look like and then they just stitched them together. It feels like different basic levels without the progression/world part. It's not like Demon Souls where you have different worlds; here you just have different levels on the same platter. There's no feeling of going deeper (except in few areas). And while there are some stunning moments in Dark Souls 2, they could've been so much better if charged with the right background. (comparing the Drangleic Castle reveal with Anor Londo - one was "wow. cool. I think I'm close to finishing the game", while the other was "holy fucking shit how. what is this place?!" and then "ahm...guys don't leave me here, how will I go back?!") My main problem is more with art direction than with graphic power.
That being said, I do have a huge problem with the backtracking from the torch mechanic since I go to so many areas where I told myself "oh...I think this was one of those rooms where I think it was supposed to be dark". (including
).
What also bothers me is the opportunity this world offers. Drangleic is really really interesting and yet I feel more like a Kratos type of figure killing hordes to reach the end of the game than I feel as a a lost soul or possible intruder in a world that is punishing and shies away its secrets from an intruder like me. The only thing I go by now, lore/story wise, is progression through time, the fact that time shifts from going to one place to the other (not only location changes, but also time which is what destroyed the world and people). But even so, if that's what they really wanted, they screwed up with an amazing idea of knowing the worlds history.
Also, direction wise, when I realised the bonfire became a simple checkpoint stop (which was right from the beginning), I realised I'm playing a knockoff.
Anyway, I'm having a lot of fun with this game and I think for me that's the problem. It became less of an experience and more of an actual simple game for me. Good gameplay, good mechanics, love the simplicity of PvP. It has its own faults like any other game that we can fight about graphics, animation, bla bla bla. And I as others, stumble upon and fight about these trivial problems that were never problems before (as pinpointed by many people), because the core of it is not there anymore.
That being said, I do have a huge problem with the backtracking from the torch mechanic since I go to so many areas where I told myself "oh...I think this was one of those rooms where I think it was supposed to be dark". (including
the gutter or the giants in black gulch or even Lost Sinner for that matter where the torch trick didn't make that much difference for me - one of the easiest bosses in the game - but then again the 4 "great" souls are quite easy bosses
What also bothers me is the opportunity this world offers. Drangleic is really really interesting and yet I feel more like a Kratos type of figure killing hordes to reach the end of the game than I feel as a a lost soul or possible intruder in a world that is punishing and shies away its secrets from an intruder like me. The only thing I go by now, lore/story wise, is progression through time, the fact that time shifts from going to one place to the other (not only location changes, but also time which is what destroyed the world and people). But even so, if that's what they really wanted, they screwed up with an amazing idea of knowing the worlds history.
Giants memories are complete shit and again such wasted opportunities
Anyway, I'm having a lot of fun with this game and I think for me that's the problem. It became less of an experience and more of an actual simple game for me. Good gameplay, good mechanics, love the simplicity of PvP. It has its own faults like any other game that we can fight about graphics, animation, bla bla bla. And I as others, stumble upon and fight about these trivial problems that were never problems before (as pinpointed by many people), because the core of it is not there anymore.
While the souls series weren't ground breaking graphically, they never looked bad. The quality of the immersion of those world was a direct result of the quality of the artistic (and technical) direction. Especially Dark Souls which often looks extremely good for a PS360 game.
Look does matter for Souls, it's what make this world so fascinating to explore, and we expected better than a sharp bait and switch downgrade.
People shitting on a game that has some of the best gameplay of the entire last generation, one of if not THE best melee combat in an action RPG ever and some of the greatest, most innovative use of multiplayer (messages, invasions, pools of blood) in any game ever.
...and that because of.... graphics and (playable) framerate. Seriously. Downgrades happen. You guys should be thanking From for making a great game and a sequel thats as good as if not better than the first. But noooo lets talk about how the right knee of that one enemy doesnt move as it should and lets forget everything good about the game and not play it because the screens and videos are a lie.
...and that because of.... graphics and (playable) framerate. Seriously. Downgrades happen. You guys should be thanking From for making a great game and a sequel thats as good as if not better than the first. But noooo lets talk about how the right knee of that one enemy doesnt move as it should and lets forget everything good about the game and not play it because the screens and videos are a lie.
There's an official thread for dick sucking/gameplay discussion, they continued to use the "good" shots up until release to promote the game.
Souls fans really can't take any criticism can they.
DarkoMaledictus
Tier Whore
Dude, that would some hardcore banning reason lol!
John Rabbit
Banned
hey man i like the game a lot too, but you're being hyperbolic in the worst way.
sublimit
Banned
Well said man!
Sure gameplay,level design and controls are king (especially in the Souls games) but when you have shitty animations,when your character feels as if he is weightless and runs/walks as if on ice then it is very easy for the immersion to break.
Demon's and Dark may not had particularly good textures but the light and especially the animations were some of the best i've ever seen in any game.I've said this a million times already but in Demon's and Dark when your character walked you could feel and see the weight of each step regardless of equipment weight.And personally this immersed me in the games even more.
In DS2 this weight simply doesn't exist.
Stealthcobra
Member
i wish this thread was about helping people with the game instead of bitching about something that isn't going to change. great game...i'm loving it. All marketing is misleading...get over it. does a big mac look like its commercial? or does a big king look like its commercial? soooo many examples of this happens all time time in various different industries. hell i'm still waiting on my nike shoes to help me play basketball better...lol.
I assume you haven't played the previous Souls games, cause Demon Souls came out in 2009. That's 5 years away from being innovative. Don't get me wrong, it's still great. As for the best gameplay, I just have to say bold claims but hats off for personal opinion.
Read my previous post though, it's not about "the right knee of that one enemy" and if we do get to talk about that and we never got to that point before is because the previous Souls game gave us so much, we would call any imperfection perfect. I as many others were in love with the previous games and I as many others are not with the sequel (still great game) which gives us reasons to nitpick (maybe also to satisfy our disappointment, we try to search for reasons).
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I like Dark Souls 2 better than 1, think the Souls games are probably the best 10 games of the generation, and I can admit Dark Souls 2 is kind of a mess.
The framerate never hits blighttown, but it's far messier than DS1 and yes -that affects gameplay-.
The art direction is a mess because much of it was created with effects and lighting ripped out at the last moment, altering the mood of much of the game. Souls games are heavily about their mood.
The lore is a mess and more fragmented than Dark Souls or even Demon's Souls. It feels like it was put together by people who weren't quite sure what the Dark Souls 1 team was going for, and kind of screwed it up.
That DS2 remains as good as it is in spite of how sketchy many aspects are, is a testament to the fundamental design of the Souls series. But there sure is a lot to legitimately criticize.
I understand your concern and they really shouldn't have promoted the game with the high res pictures. They should have addressed all that before.
But, in the end, the game is still great. Its just a question to put everything in a balance and see whats better for you. Downgrade, bad framerate, screen lies X gameplay, lengthy game and so on.
Again, they shouldn't have lied about this but maybe they deserve a chance since the game is fun and the combat is satisfying. The PC port is probably not going to be great and people will be angry. That will happen and they should be angry because the PC can do so much more. But, then again, maybe they should play the game since the sword combat is good and the game is very rewarding, even if the framerate isnt good and the resolution isnt that good for a PC.
Stealthcobra
Member
Are we playing the same game? runs/walks on ice? I wish.
What do you mean by helping people with the game? You understand the root of this thread right?
I would be amazed if you weren't in some way employed by Bamco or From, yeah sure they fucked us but who cares!
I don't think anyone is criticizing Souls fans themselves in this thread. You mean Souls fans think criticizing From Software is pointless because the game is still fun regardless of a graphical "downgrade" I think.
Agh, I feel stupid now, his name wasn't in red so I glazed over it, my bad.
sublimit
Banned
Are you fucking kidding me man?
Just look at how the character slides his feet when strafing (at 30:12):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk6UQg-hHfQ
In comparison just check Dark Souls 1 strafing and how much more weight the strafing animations have (at 1:37) :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXD9C0S2S70
XANDER CAGE
Member
Why are people trying to make arguments about gameplay in a thread specifically about the stuff surrounding the graphics? There are plenty of other threads dedicated to talking about the game itself. The game being good doesn't mean this stuff isn't worth discussing, especially since From/Namco themselves have confirmed there was a change, Forbes posted an interview with an apparent insider, and Steam just updated and removed the pre-release images.
It's not like there's nothing to discuss about this.
It's not like there's nothing to discuss about this.
Yes there is. It looks and plays like a Souls game. The 'downgrade' everyone speaks of doesn't exist. There were previous builds that may have looked better in some specific areas, but aside from a tweaked lighting engine, there is no actual proof of some global downgrade for the whole game.
HDgaming42
Member
Would it be fair to characterize your position as "Lying is bad, but I like the game, so I'm OK with the lying?"
Because I think there are a number of people in this thread who are actually huge fans of this series who feel being lied to is a pretty big deal. They are not about to shrug, pay full price and suddenly wax poetic about how blessed they are that FROM finally found them worthy of another game.
Your enjoyment of the series apparently trumps your desire to be treated with respect. Not everyone is wired that way.
And before this sparks yet another repeat of the other three threads on this topic, for the millionth time--this isn't about the downgrade--it is how it was handled.
Garcia
Member
I wonder... Isnt' that |OT| thread visible enough for you? Do you realize why this thread exists? Weren't you around when the discussion got started inside that |OT|?
Leave the |OT| for praising and helping each other. This thread exists for separate reasons.
Just canceled by pre-order on Green Man Gaming. I'll regret missing the $38 purchase price if the PC release turns out to be more than an uprezzed version of the ugly 360/PS3 port but it's looking less likely every day.
I'm not going to support Namco's deceptive advertising of the console release and the utter lack of transparency regarding the PC version.
I'm not going to support Namco's deceptive advertising of the console release and the utter lack of transparency regarding the PC version.
Hi Kazaam, sorry I was talking about the Souls games as the franchise, I did play Demons Souls back in 2009. I still think the message/invasion/pool of blood system is miles ahead of what we can call innovative nowadays
I understand some of the criticism but maaaybe sometimes you guys go too far. Some of the animations are rough and some boss battles arent that great. Dark Souls was amazing, for instance, but the last couple of areas seemed rushed and very, very boring. At least DS2 doesnt have that imo, all the areas (okay, except Shrine) are very nice to visit.XANDER CAGE
Member
Good thing this thread has mostly been dedicated to pointing out those tweaks, specific areas, and builds then. There was/is plenty to talk about. It doesn't have anything to do with whether or not the game is still fun (I wouldn't be on NG+ if it wasn't) and it doesn't make it any less disappointing that the PC version apparently won't have the effects some people were hoping for.
Facism
Member
You mean like the official thread? If you don't want to read criticism or concern over the game, make a conscious decision to stay out of threads aimed at discussing them?
It's great that you're loving the game. It's not so great that you're bringing a dismissive tone marred with strawmen.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Here you go:
Dark Souls 2:
Dark Souls 1:
I'm trying really hard to notice some difference, but the speed of strafing on the bottom gif is a little too fast to make comparisons
If you'd like, I can remake the gifs with YouTube playing at a lower speed, if you'd think that would help. It's fairly obvious to me, and maybe watching the whole video (image at those parts) might make it more apparent for you.
Ha! My pleasure, anytime! It's much easier to show things with gifs, and it's definitely much easier for people who don't want to leave the page and see it on loop.
sublimit
Banned
Here you go:
Dark Souls 2:
Dark Souls 1:
Shoutouts to boutdown!
Dark Souls 2 looks a lot less spastic. Not sure if that's the point you were trying to make.
Hello fellow gaffer and giantbomb fan.
I understand what you are trying to say. In my opinion, I dont think its right or wrong to buy the game based on how the downgrade was handled. It depends from person to person. What I dont think its right is that, sometimes, people will start saying the game sucks, every animation is bad and say anything bad about the game only to make it look worse and reinforce the downgrade situation.
In my case, I kind of knew what to expect from the game from my experience with Demons Souls and Dark Souls, so I was happy with the purchase - downgrades and all. I wouldnt buy a product or be okay with it if it didnt treat me, consumers and even other developers in general with the respect we deserve. But it needs to be something more than the downgrade or how they handled it to get me pissed. For example, something like Infestation on Steam would piss me off more than the downgrade problem (and someone gifted me that argh...), or a game full of glitches or the online mode not working. I didnt buy DS2 because of lightning effects or perfect animations. They are not the best but get the job done, in my opinion. Even with the downgrades I was still able to enjoy the game so I dont think From was disrespectful, at least to me. Once again, it depends and other people can get annoyed by that.
Garcia
Member
Here you go:
Dark Souls 2:
Dark Souls 1:
Shoutouts to boutdown!
It stands out immediately: In Dark Souls your character's feet respect their relative position on the ground while in Dark Souls 2 the movement is totally independent of the surface.
I don't know man. I'm not seeing any differences other than the player in the DS1 pic plays like a spaz. In both look like the travel independently to me.
*snipped the rest of the post because it could probably interpreted as thread whining*
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