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From Tupac to Rosa Parks: KY county clerk Kim Davis says "Only God can judge me now"
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ryutaro's mama
Member
Guys, is it bad I am taking pleasure in the bitter tears people have all over the internet tonight at not understanding the concept of "separation of church and state"?
benjipwns
Banned
And the other half end in death.
They don't even know what judges do
ryutaro's mama
Member
People are using terms like "wicked" "corrupt" and "sent by the devil" to describe the judge!!!
It's amazing!
I'm looking this from Korea and its honestly embarrassing the hell out of me.
I'm really not looking forward to coming back in December.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Heh.
I was in the UK last year for extended time during Fergueson and it was so embarrassing having people ask me if the live feeds were what it's like in America for Black people. They were genuinely curious.
I was in no hurry to return to the US.
User 100115
Banned
The person I was arguing with earlier said that since separation of church and state isn't explicit in the Constitution, it doesn't count.
ryutaro's mama
Member
You're arguing with an idiot, I'm afraid.
I find this whole thing to be hilarious. The logic here is so basic yet people think there is an actual argument to be made on her behalf.
Box of Kittens
Banned
Glad you liked it. Sometimes when I write a long post like that I worry no one will read it or be interested.
Southern Republicans do tend to be on the conservative side compared to Republicans from other regions but they're not as far from what you might consider the mainstream of the party as many Southern Democrats are. Partly because the South is one of the party's strongest regions in many ways so it has a lot of influence on the party as a whole.
Also, I should make sure not to overstate the case on Southern Democrats. Plenty of them are moderate-to-liberal. It's just that there's still a sizable number who are registered as Democrats or identify as Democrats yet vote like Republicans.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
We're discussing the "absence" (statutory term) of the "clerk" (constitutional term). The clerk is a person. She's absent in jail (at least arguably so).
Well, maybe I am. But it seems to me that (a) it is a matter of fact whether the clerk - the actual person - is absent or not and (b) it is essentially the judge/executive's call whether he steps in or not.
It doesn't. But it does help resolve the meaning of "clerk" - I brought this point up because the statute distinguishes between the clerk in subsection (a) and the deputies in subsection (c).
Anyway, we've probably banged this particular drum enough for now - let's see what happens, eh?
EDIT: It looks like this argument was actually brought up during the hearing:
So, looks like Kim Davis sided with me and the judge sided with you! I lose. And because of that, you're right - it is a bit of a grey area.
However, I'm not sure whether she raised that argument in anticipation of being jailed or in anticipation of being free to do the job except for marriage licenses.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Awesome! I love seeing these discriminating bigots be put in their place. Your religious beliefs are not above the law or human rights.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Holy crap what is that from? Why do people think she's forever entitle to this job? Almost all jobs require the works to change, grow, and adapt, and she clearly couldn't and refused. As another poster said, she didn't even bother delegating the task if it came down to a personal stance.
From someone who I assume has never been employed
Holy shit I can't breathe!
https://twitter.com/nexttokimdavis
Sitnexto Kim Davis ‏@nexttokimdavis 5h5 hours ago
.@IStandwKimDavis have fun standing in prison. I'll sit on the couch with a glass o white zin, @TimGunn and my first husband. #halfdayfriday
Sitnexto Kim Davis ‏@nexttokimdavis 9h9 hours ago
.@ScottyRad As long as I get off by noon for Labor Day weekend, I will FUCKING MARRY ANYONE TO EACH OTHER
Sitnexto Kim Davis ‏@nexttokimdavis 10h10 hours ago
.@CarlyFiorina I want to go to jail and get a million dollars, too. AND I DO MY FUCKING JOB. WANNA GET MARRIED? COME ON DOWN!
Sitnexto Kim Davis ‏@nexttokimdavis 12h12 hours ago
.@IStandwKimDavis I am Christian and I am being persecuted by NOT BEING ABLE TO LOOK UP FUCKING CHILI RECIPES FOR MY LABOR DAY LAKE PICNIC
https://twitter.com/nexttokimdavis
Sitnexto Kim Davis ‏@nexttokimdavis 5h5 hours ago
.@IStandwKimDavis have fun standing in prison. I'll sit on the couch with a glass o white zin, @TimGunn and my first husband. #halfdayfriday
Sitnexto Kim Davis ‏@nexttokimdavis 9h9 hours ago
.@ScottyRad As long as I get off by noon for Labor Day weekend, I will FUCKING MARRY ANYONE TO EACH OTHER
Sitnexto Kim Davis ‏@nexttokimdavis 10h10 hours ago
.@CarlyFiorina I want to go to jail and get a million dollars, too. AND I DO MY FUCKING JOB. WANNA GET MARRIED? COME ON DOWN!
Sitnexto Kim Davis ‏@nexttokimdavis 12h12 hours ago
.@IStandwKimDavis I am Christian and I am being persecuted by NOT BEING ABLE TO LOOK UP FUCKING CHILI RECIPES FOR MY LABOR DAY LAKE PICNIC
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
It's a bit too over the top, without it adding to the satire.
But, the concept is gold. And there are some good lines
Some good continuity which is often lacking from parody twitter accounts too.
God is on Kim's side though so you win by default
Hellwarden
Member
If he is on her side, why hasn't he gone old testament level of wrath yet?
Has he sent a plague down upon her enemies yet?
Exactly, under that mentality, I'd make this argument.
When i joined the military, ISIS didn't exist, therefore, if i get tasked on a deployment to fight ISIS, I can refuse to go and not get in trouble because I feel that ISIS is a regional issue and the US shouldn't be dealing with it.
Its 100% asinine.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
IMO the constitution needs to be amended.
The 1st amendment should be stated that you have religious freedom "as long as it doesn't impede, harm, or disrupt the livelihood or well being of others."
Otherwise, people can claim their religious rights are violated for anything.
The 1st amendment should be stated that you have religious freedom "as long as it doesn't impede, harm, or disrupt the livelihood or well being of others."
Otherwise, people can claim their religious rights are violated for anything.
timetokill
Banned
People always claim their religious rights are being violated.
But it really doesn't need to be amended. It already says what it needs to say. In fact, adding additional text would probably only serve to dilute it, and that's really not what we want. People could stretch the word "impede" or "disrupt" into all sorts of things.
The constitution already does basically say this. That plus civil rights legislation. The problem is that people just don't want to listen and they put their god before country.
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
So of course Ted Cruz is throwing the full force of his fuckery behind this lady.
I'm thankful he'll never be relevant beyond Texas but whhhhhy do we have to deal with him??
I'm thankful he'll never be relevant beyond Texas but whhhhhy do we have to deal with him??
There's a person in our offices whose defense is "In God We trust is on our money!!!"
Sigh....
maquiladora
Member
Core principles of the Abrahamic religions do impede, harm and disrupt the well being of people.
People have this insane notion that the USA is a Christian nation, founded on Christian beliefs.
They want a theocratic government where God is the end all, be all and if you disagree, well to bad.
That's why conservative Christians get so butt hurt about things like this. It doesn't fit the narrow world view that they want to impose on everyone.
The first amendment is fine how it is. It's purpose is to prevent a religion from being like the church of England back in the day. It entire purpose is to keep church and state separate.
UncleSporky
Member
IIRC the phrase only shows up in private communication written by Jefferson, but people like to discuss it as if it was made explicit in the founding documents.
This only says that the US wasn't founded under the banner of a specific religion, not that a religion couldn't be allowed to affect matters of state. Additionally, as stated on that page, it was amended before it was ratified to eliminate that language.
I'm not on this woman's side but "separation of church and state" is less explicit than people like to make it out to be. It's never stated outright. But this is a subject much bigger than this thread.
aspiegamer
Member
Activists don't see race! You racist!
There are a whole lot of things that aren't explicitly mentioned in the Constitution, and it's actually designed to handle that! The bizarro 9th Amendment is a sort of catch all of "you have rights that we don't outline by default, but if someone questions it we'll have to talk about it" ((HEAVILY paraphrasing)). It then goes to the judiciary whose job it is to decide if things are permissible under the Constitution (the existing rules). Time and time again SCOTUS has discussed the matter of faith interjecting into business of the State and it's been universally clear for the entire history of this country that the as-written covers these situations just fine. If people still have an issue with it, they can try to amend the Constitution so that it becomes Constitutional by definition. This is why people who call SCOTUS rulings unconstitutional are silly. It simply is.
If you want to talk the language of these people (called "originalists") and what they think of many other Amendments, you can tell them that Jefferson described the Establishment Clause to be a protection of Government from religion. England having an official State religion was a big factor in this being included, as was the hodgepodge of different persecuted religious minorities that had population concentrations in specific Colonies. Everyone had to be on equal terms and without risk of possible later persecution. Today we have the lovely catch-all conservative phrase "Sharia Law" to describe people trying to interject religious principles as written law. This woman, in very generic terms, was attempting to practice [Evangelical] Sharia Law in her county.
TLDR, it's been run through the system many times before and the system has always spat out the same result. No need to fix what's not broken. Judges are doing their jobs and in this case enforcing the Law against those who refuse to obey.
SolarMystic
Member
She works for the government, she has to abide by their laws. This is not some private organization she is working for.
She's elected, she can't be fired. Shes has to be voted out by the general assembly and they're out of session till January.
that's one of the stupidest things i've ever heard
Law changes all the time, her job was comply with the law whatever the law was
I can't believe how many times this has to be restated.
Yep, and jobs change all the time too. People resign their positions when those changes are too much for them.
Bananajama
Banned
Wait wait wait
If we're created in God's image
Does that mean God is bi?
Or Sometimes Straight, Sometimes Gay, Sometimes Bi
Or all 3 at the same time?
If we're created in God's image
Does that mean God is bi?
Or Sometimes Straight, Sometimes Gay, Sometimes Bi
Or all 3 at the same time?
SolarMystic
Member
Ah, thanks for clearing that up for me. Wasn't aware clerks were voted in to office, not to familiar with local elections.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
This might be the most idiotic comparison I've ever seen. How does one make such an absurd leap? Sheesh..I'm hoping you don't have to deal with this person in a daily..
Agreed..holy shit..agreed!
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
The Associated Press ‏@AP 1m1 minute ago
BREAKING: With defiant county clerk behind bars, gay Kentucky couple receives marriage license.
In jail and the other clerks are issuing marriage licenses. What a waste of time and money this circus has been.
BREAKING: With defiant county clerk behind bars, gay Kentucky couple receives marriage license.
In jail and the other clerks are issuing marriage licenses. What a waste of time and money this circus has been.
Least100Seraphs
Neo Member
My understanding would be that
a) she can't fire them until she resumes her duties, which can't happen until she is no longer in contempt (aka she has to approve/issue licences)
b) if somehow she did fire them, and then refused to issue licences, she would be back in contempt, only this time it would be even clearer that the clerk is "absent", which would in turn make it easier for a judge executive to issue licences.
a) she can't fire them until she resumes her duties, which can't happen until she is no longer in contempt (aka she has to approve/issue licences)
b) if somehow she did fire them, and then refused to issue licences, she would be back in contempt, only this time it would be even clearer that the clerk is "absent", which would in turn make it easier for a judge executive to issue licences.
It's a bit too over the top, without it adding to the satire.
But, the concept is gold. And there are some good lines
Some good continuity which is often lacking from parody twitter accounts too.
I usually have no problem with overused profanity but the account would have been funnier if it was played straight rather than with the comedic timing of a Lets Player, imo.
There are a few great tweets if I remove the obligatory "FUCKING" escalation.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
The profile blurb and the Splenda tweet are my favorite.
License obtained.
Whether it stands-up to scrutiny on its validity.. we shall see.
yasssssssssssssssssssssss <3
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