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FW: A message for David Smith

WarPig

Member
-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Orland [mailto:CENSORED]
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 1:29 PM
To: Feedback
Subject: A message for David Smith

Dear Mr. Smith,

This is Kyle Orland of The Video Game Ombudsman (http://vgombud.blogspot.com). I sent a message similar to this one to your 1up account but have yet to receive a reply. I hope this one will reach you.

I recently got an e-mail from a reader that's finally pushed me to take a look at the redesigned 1up.com. The message is copied below and also available on his LiveJournal at http://www.livejournal.com/users/heygabe/94625.html#cutid1. I'm hoping you'll be able to offer up comments in response to his charges. If I do not hear back from you this week, I will be forced to adress Gabe's concerns without your input.

Fell free to respond to anything Gabe says, but I'm interested in the following issues that Gabe brings up in particular:

* Is writing for a blog significantly different than writing a review? Does writing for one influence style in the other?
* Are 1up's reviews designed to be controversial? To get discussion going? Is it fair to say that they include what Gabe calls "flame bait?"
* Gabe accuses 1up of becoming a cult of personality of sorts, in which the style and personality of the reviewer overshines the content of the review (and the game). Is this a fair criticism?

Thanks in advance.

-Kyle Orland

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Gabe Wollenburg <CENSORED>
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 19:26:14 -0500
Subject: 1up?
To: GOT IT THIS TIME, AND ANYWAY, IT'S PROBABLY ALL OVER HIS BLOG

"The carrot's on the end of a bloody long stick, to put it succinctly."

From David Smith's review of Star Ocean: Till the end of time. http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3134164&did=1

I have long disliked the writing of David Smith, but this is tertiary to the subject I wish to discuss here. Reading Smith's review made me take stock in the state of 1up.com and Video Game Journalism as a whole.

1up.com is not so much about video game journalism as it is about being host to some of the Internet's video game personalities? The sites not-so-recent relaunch, I think, suggests this, as 1up.com V.2 seems to be more like a creepy bastard child of Friendster, LiveJournal and Gamespot.

Smith is just one of many sort-of-famous Internet people who staff 1up.com, including Jeremy Parish (Toastyfrog) and Nich Maragos (Crunk). Missing from this list are the obviously insane including Eric and Chet from the defunct Old Man Murray and Tim Rogers of Insert Credit. However, Portal Of Evil alum SeanBaby suckles at the Ziff teat as one of 1up's prominent bloggers. From this we can deduce that while insanity is clearly off 1up's list, Kicking ass isn't. Rock on, Sean.

I think 1up is more about personality than about journalism. I don't think that there is anything inherently wrong with that... in fact, I think journalism could use a goodly dose of personality if it expects to remain viable to a new generation of readers. (A debate for another time.)

The point is this: If 1up reviews are going to be considered blog entries, then they should be made more obviously so. A clever phrase like Smith's mid-review rip on Tales of Symphonia's tenancy to rely on stereotypes (a "boiler explosion at the typecasting plant," Smith called
it) has a place in a blog, where a little flame bait is not only anticipated, but required, really. Outside the context of a blog, however, it doesn't make as much sense.

However, there isn't anything wrong, I think, with reporters who let a little personality shine through in their work. In this regard, I firmly believe that Journalists live and die by thier personalities. In Smith's case, I suggest someone call the coroner. Perhaps his Nippophile-centric, ad hominem, hipster tone test markets well with the l337's and other crucial demographics, I don't know. I don't like David Smith's writing. I don't know him as a person, but I would guess we wouldn't likely be friends.

This isn't a problem for me. I simply will continue to ignore Smith's work. Typically, I only read his stuff when I haven't bothered to check the byline. (And, it should be mentioned, I typically only check the byline when I want to answer the question, "What jackass wrote this?")

Where I have a problem, I guess, is when that personality drive starts to infiltrate my print media. Consider page 20 of the October 2004 EGM, where 1up-er Raychul Moore is made an Internet T&A celeb. Miss Moore, by all accounts, enjoys a good romp with Resident Evil, but has less to say about that than she does about plugging her lingerie group on Yahoo. Do we really need this in EGM? It's about as meaningful and as useful as EGM's stupid horoscopes. Instead, why not dedicate the space to something insightful to readers? If it were my ship to run, I'd make the Seanbaby section two pages or something—because in Seanbaby's case, personality carries the whole show. You'd never read an EGM review of Barbie's Pleasure Cruise Advance DX otherwise, would you?

Thanks for your time and consideration,

Gabriel D. W. Wollenburg
 

bishoptl

Banstick Emeritus
One of these days I'll pull out the GA hatemail from the Ninja Gaiden C-minus fiasco. Saved the good ones - they were good.

I feel him on the whole "D-list celebrities mention a game once so suddenly they're JUST LIKE US" nonsense though. It was transparent in Incite and it's transparent in EGM.
 
bishoptl said:
One of these days I'll pull out the GA hatemail from the Ninja Gaiden C-minus fiasco. Saved the good ones - they were good.

I feel him on the whole "D-list celebrities mention a game once so suddenly they're JUST LIKE US" nonsense though. It was transparent in Incite and it's transparent in EGM.

do it now man it has been long enough we need a good laugh
 

TekunoRobby

Tag of Excellence
Gabe said:
I don't like David Smith's writing. I don't know him as a person, but I would guess we wouldn't likely be friends.
That was a great line, ha ha.

Where is Che, WE NEED HIS INPUT STAT!.

You need to post the reply or else this thread is only half done.
 

WarPig

Member
The reply is up there in the second post. You think I actually want to personally talk to the guy?

DFS.
 

Goreomedy

Console Market Analyst
David Smith's game impressions are like Oklahoma weather. If you don't like it, just hang around a while and it'll change!

:D
 

bishoptl

Banstick Emeritus
I dunno about posting this Gabe guy's e-mail address though. I may be wrong, but I'm assuming that his mail was sent in confidence. Judgment call.
 

Goreomedy

Console Market Analyst
bishoptl said:
I dunno about posting this Gabe guy's e-mail address though. I may be wrong, but I'm assuming that his mail was sent in confidence. Judgment call.

Too late. I've already signed him up for the NAMBLA bulletin.
 

WarPig

Member
bishoptl said:
I dunno about posting this Gabe guy's e-mail address though. I may be wrong, but I'm assuming that his mail was sent in confidence. Judgment call.

Point. I see a guy with a LiveJournal, I automatically think "hopeless attention whore," but I shoulda snipped that in the first place.

DFS.
 
I wonder what would happen if Kyle ever got a real job and had to stop working on this wanky-senior-thesis-in-perpetuity he calls his blog.

How DARE you use evocative phrases in your writing! Didn't you know interesting turns-of-phrase have no place in gaming journalism? Cut all the metaphors and get back to tuning your Ferrari.
 

Soul4ger

Member
WarPig said:
Point. I see a guy with a LiveJournal, I automatically think "hopeless attention whore," but I shoulda snipped that in the first place.

DFS.

Strangely enough, I'm almost positive at least 33% of the 1UP staff has a LiveJournal or something akin to one. And for the record, I'm excluding the 1UP blogs. Though I always kinda thought they were similar... I guess the joke's on me!

Tim Rogers = David Smith? A definite possibility, says me!
 
D

Deleted member 1235

Unconfirmed Member
you also didn't censor that kyle guys email address the second time.
 

WarPig

Member
Soul4ger said:
Tim Rogers = David Smith? A definite possibility, says me!

No, Tim and I have actually been spotted in the same place at the same time. I also don't wear a scarf.

DFS.
 

Sho Nuff

Banned
Soul4ger said:
Tim Rogers = David Smith? A definite possibility, says me!

That's not funny, man!

BTW, I say we give the Ombudsman an account here at GA. He could finally have a forum for his...okay, I don't know if it's rage at a seemingly corrupt industry or jealousy for not getting hired. Anyway, I just think it'd be funny.
 

WarPig

Member
Soul4ger said:
I was just trying to be funny!

Funny story about Tim, though. I'm walking down an alley in Akihabara with an expat friend of mine. Suddenly the guy yanks me into a side street, hides his face, and tells me not to look in a certain direction.

Why? Because he saw Tim coming down the street, and was deathly afraid of being ensnared in a conversation.

DFS.
 

Soul4ger

Member
WarPig said:
Funny story about Tim, though. I'm walking down an alley in Akihabara with an expat friend of mine. Suddenly the guy yanks me into a side street, hides his face, and tells me not to look in a certain direction.

Why? Because he saw Tim coming down the street, and was deathly afraid of being ensnared in a conversation.

DFS.

Is he as long-winded and pretentious when he actually talks? Don't get me wrong, I've chatted with Tim online a few times and he seems nice enough, but... I can't deal with 47-page articles on Madden 2004.
 

WarPig

Member
Soul4ger said:
Is he as long-winded and pretentious when he actually talks? Don't get me wrong, I've chatted with Tim online a few times and he seems nice enough, but... I can't deal with 47-page articles on Madden 2004.

That's the point, I don't know -- we managed to successfully evade him.

DFS.
 

Soul4ger

Member
WarPig said:
That's the point, I don't know -- we managed to successfully evade him.

DFS.

Kinda strange that you were in the middle of fucking Tokyo and the one person you happen to almost run into is Tim Rogers, don't you think? Ah, well, I'll assume your amigos avoidance points to him being a chatty dude.
 

jooey

The Motorcycle That Wouldn't Slow Down
Finally, I wanted to say if you're an executive from 1up.com. I would happily blog at your site if you were to pay me.

I dunno about blogging but I'd pay him to sugarcoat my list of people I hate on the internet as well as he did his.
 

Soul4ger

Member
Where I have a problem, I guess, is when that personality drive starts to infiltrate my print media. Consider page 20 of the October 2004 EGM, where 1up-er Raychul Moore is made an Internet T&A celeb. Miss Moore, by all accounts, enjoys a good romp with Resident Evil, but has less to say about that than she does about plugging her lingerie group on Yahoo. Do we really need this in EGM? It's about as meaningful and as useful as EGM's stupid horoscopes. Instead, why not dedicate the space to something insightful to readers? If it were my ship to run, I'd make the Seanbaby section two pages or something—because in Seanbaby's case, personality carries the whole show. You'd never read an EGM review of Barbie's Pleasure Cruise Advance DX otherwise, would you?

Holy shit, I just read this part! ...He makes some sense...
 

WarPig

Member
Soul4ger said:
Kinda strange that you were in the middle of fucking Tokyo and the one person you happen to almost run into is Tim Rogers, don't you think? Ah, well, I'll assume your amigos avoidance points to him being a chatty dude.

It's not that surprising. I've run into lots of people there -- Rogers, my boy Colin, Anoop, this one guy who used to work for UGA, etc. Akihabara is a kind of Nexus of Ex-Pat Nerd Realities.

DFS.
 

ferricide

Member
the VGO routinely makes me want to say things that would be best left unsaid. i will thus leave them unsaid! however, you can imagine them. imagine very, very colorful things.
 
ferricide said:
the VGO routinely makes me want to say things that would be best left unsaid. i will thus leave them unsaid! however, you can imagine them. imagine very, very colorful things.

Yeah, I have a very, uh, creative reply sitting in my Drafts folder, unsent.

Summary: What an arrogant prick!
 

Soul4ger

Member
JackFrost2012 said:
Yeah, I have a very, uh, creative reply sitting in my Drafts folder, unsent.

Summary: What an arrogant prick!

If reading this forum has taught me one thing, besides how to love, it's that we're all pretty arrogant... At least, that's the way I see it!
 

WarPig

Member
Soul4ger said:
If reading this forum has taught me one thing, besides how to love, it's that we're all pretty arrogant... At least, that's the way I see it!

Who's got a picture of Rick Martel hawking "Arrogance"? Aha! Found one!

martel1.jpg


DFS.
 
Soul4ger said:
If reading this forum has taught me one thing, besides how to love, it's that we're all pretty arrogant... At least, that's the way I see it!

Oh, this is quite true. Dave and I (and most people here) are certainly arrogant pricks as well. But neither of us has set ourselves up as the Ultimate Arbiter of All Things Videogames.

Kyle's "ombudsman" of the game industry much the same way Joshua Norton's Emperor of the United States - a delusional, self-proclaimed title, nothing more.
 

WarPig

Member
JackFrost2012 said:
Kyle's "ombudsman" of the game industry much the same way Joshua Norton's Emperor of the United States - a delusional, self-proclaimed title, nothing more.

Speaking of delusional, self-proclaimed titles, I should start calling myself Reverend Doktor David Francis Smith again. That always hadda nice ring to it.

Although it doesn't really count as self-proclaimed, since I paid thirty hard American dollars for it.

DFS.
 

Soul4ger

Member
JackFrost2012 said:
Oh, this is quite true. Dave and I (and most people here) are certainly arrogant pricks as well. But neither of us has set ourselves up as the Ultimate Arbiter of All Things Videogames.

Kyle's "ombudsman" of the game industry much the same way Joshua Norton's Emperor of the United States - a delusional, self-proclaimed title, nothing more.

I was in H. British Literature in High School, and this kid said "r-bi-ter." We (my classmates and I) all got a pretty big kick out of that.

I've never visited the guy's site, so I don't know much about him. Which, in turn, makes him fairly inconsequential to me. But, I've never gotten an e-mail from him. Which I guess makes me fairly inconsequential. Or it means I've never done anything overly stupid. In his eyes. Probably the former. Oh, how I yearn for more hatemail.
 

WarPig

Member
Soul4ger said:
Which I guess makes me fairly inconsequential. Or it means I've never done anything overly stupid. In his eyes. Probably the former. Oh, how I yearn for more hatemail.

Nah, it gets old fast. The first few bits are funny, and then it's just depressing. I got my first few bits five years ago, so...

Thankfully, I am inconsequential as a motherfucker, so I don't get much mail of any kind anymore. Which suits me fine.

DFS.
 

B E N K E

Member
Personally as a Swede I enjoy it when Americans use the term "ombudsman". That and smorgasbord (which translates into sandwich table) are the only Swedish words (to my knowledge) that have made it into the English language.

On topic, I think this ombudsman is probably in need of some counseling. He appears to have issues.
 

drohne

hyperbolically metafictive
from "the videogame ombudsman's" frankly unbelievable webpage said:
The Ombudsman Needs A Job!

word.

who cares that much about videogame reviews? i care about videogame reviews just enough to skim them and then complain about the scores on gaf. but i find a good half of the reviews at 1up vaguely irritating as well. they're all preciousness and anime geekery and conceits that aren't even fractionally as clever as their authors clearly think they are. although it's hard to complain when the alternatives are ign or gamespot going on for page after illiterate page.

and david, i think the only sane response to this would be to start working that "swass" jpeg into your reviews somehow.
 
Looks like some fanboi is still aching after David Smith's classic crotch punch of a Love Hina review on IGN. (I'm too lazy to dig it up for the rest of you, but trust me, it's ever so worth it.)

That said, Kyle's a motherfucker. First, for trying to hedge in on my turf as the AR-BI-TER of objective opinion on videogaming. As I've said and as all you motherfuckers have tacitly conceded, I *am* the fucking Metatron when it comes to videogame criticism. When I am wrong, it's because one of you assholes misled me. We'll forget that I liked Unlimited SaGa, and that I once sent a whiny email to Nich bitching about his Hoshigami review. What-ever!

Second, his site's a joke. Ombudsmanship is about fact-checking, not railing against obvious editorializing. And in case Kyle missed it, reviews are editorials in response to the solicitation of practical advice by the consumer. Basically, I think Kyle's a bit envious of the semi-celebrity accorded a few writers like DFS, Vestal, Parish, Seanbaby et al, and there's no doubt that he's made a sort of sophist's career out of pointing out their status to them, in the shrill cadence of a would-be academic. It's like he wants their jobs, or something. NO WAY!

I've had my problems with The GIA and the cadre of writers that have grown up during its lifespan, but never to the point that I felt they were a dangerous pox of pseudointellectualism such that I'd run shrieking to a self-titled "video game journalism ombudsman" to pull proxy in a forthcoming internet slapfight. (I *do* have a problem with Insert Credit and the fact that I can never find any useful information or opinion anywhere on it unless I dredge through reams of Japanophilic observational humor, idiomatic in-jokes, and hentai worship. And, of course, there's the fact that Tim Rogers is fundamentally unreadable.) I'd venture that my problem with The GIA and its writers was the canonization of the FF and MGS series, which only stood out because those series' particular brand of fan-friendly crap was largely pretentious and wed to decent enough mechanics (unlike, say, Kingdom Hearts or Shenmue).

And that's what I liked about DFS's SO3 review -- the implicit assumption that "if you're an anime-addled college frosh like most of us were at one time, you'll eat this crap up; now, let's talk about the GAME." And how is Tales of Symphonia NOT the most shameless pandering to anime cliche on the market? I'd almost call the game a homage, but it lacks the winking self-awareness of a Nadesico style romp. Dissimilar as it is in theme to Xenogears, it still suffers from that masturbatory delight in the safety of cliches, rather than trying to at least mix the experience up a bit.

Ignoring the fanboy element's the best bet, though. You can't make them happy until they get pedestals of their own from which to champion their love, and the worst thing you can do to 'em is make them feel ignored.
 

TekunoRobby

Tag of Excellence
That was pretty enjoyable to read. Drinky are you really that angry with these group of individuals? I wouldn't know since I don't write video game reviews profesionally (or as professional as a fansite job can get) but they really seem to irritate a good lot of you.
 
I'm chronically irritable. I get doubly irritated when a site has the potential to address the tastes of a niche audience (namely: me) yet squanders it on inside gags and fanboy-friendly rockstar worship.
 

SyNapSe

Member
haha, nice read Drinky.

It seems the original guy is mad that a video game site would try to exude personality, or at least... have their reviewer's exude personality. I guess if we are all interested in getting "unbiased" and bland journalism.. that's great. However, polls would probably show that things like ESPN.. a TV channel once amazingly dedicated to ONLY sports.. really took off during the last 15 or so years by building their analysts, and reporters into quasi-celebrities.
 

DCharlie

And even i am moderately surprised
"Is he as long-winded and pretentious when he actually talks? Don't get me wrong, I've chatted with Tim online a few times and he seems nice enough, but... I can't deal with 47-page articles on Madden 2004."

A fourty seven page review of Madden from Tim would contain one paragraph about the game and fourty six or so pages about some chance encounter with a Korean woman in a cafe with whom he had a life changing conversation about prime numbers.
 

jooey

The Motorcycle That Wouldn't Slow Down
Drinky Crow said:
I'm chronically irritable. I get doubly irritated when a site has the potential to address the tastes of a niche audience (namely: me) yet squanders it on inside gags and fanboy-friendly rockstar worship.

if you call our support number you can qualify for a free box of chamomile tea.
 

BuddyC

Member
I tend to enjoy Mr. Smith's writings. I actaully introduced myself to him outside Sony's E3 2004 press conference, but I think my lack of sleep and frustration with Sony's personnel combined to scare the hell out of him. It's really funny in retrospect though.
 
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