Drinky Crow
Banned
Less DFS praise, more Insert Credit bashing! WHAT DO I PAY YOU SLOBS FOR.
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FW: A message for David Smith
- Thread starter WarPig
- Start date
My favorite Insert Credit piece was the Viewtiful Joe review where they criticized it as "a failed experiment in post-modern gaming," or something like that.
EDIT: OK, so the review in question was positive. My mistake. Nevertheless:
EDIT: OK, so the review in question was positive. My mistake. Nevertheless:
BuddyChrist83 said:
Naw, you didn't scare me, I was just like "who is this guy who's trying to get me to get him into the Sony press conference?"
The weird thing was, it turned out that WE weren't on the list either. Nich and Alex and I had to buttonhole Ryan Bowling and beg him to let us in. Bizarro.
Drinky, I hate to say it, but I think bashing Insert Credit is kinda passe at this point. With Brandon Sheffield getting a real job, I believe the site may actually be going gently into that good night sometime soon...
In re: the legendary Love Hina review, I both like and hate it, because while the top half is a lot of fun, the bottom half should have been replaced by a blanket admission along the lines of "I'm a laserdisc guy, I don't give a good goddamn about the technical aspects of DVDs, so fuck off and read the Anime on DVD guy if you want your cartoon reviews from a gearhead with no taste whatsoever."
The funny part is, I eventually gave up and essentially did that when I reviewed Weiss Kreuz later on...
DFS.
BTW, IGN seems to have taken it down, but you can see the Love Hina review:
http://web.archive.org/web/20021016170739/http://dvd.ign.com/articles/317653p1.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20021016170739/http://dvd.ign.com/articles/317653p1.html
BuddyChrist83 said:
Ain't no thing. First day of E3 is rough on everyone.
My pull in this business is greatly exaggerated by anyone who claims I have any pull in this business at all. I have a modest reputation for getting my facts straight and delivering copy on time, plus another modest reputation for being a filthy-mouthed prick with no respect for his superiors, plus no reputation whatsoever with the publisher PR reps who REALLY control this dodge.
Fire me from a full-time gig and there's no way I could make a living freelance, which is not the case with someone like, say, Doug Perry, whose writing may be roundly dissed by forums like these, but who has roughly twelve grillion times the connections as one such as I.
DFS.
FoneBone said:
You can find it through Google, too. The review's not gone, it just got taken out of the archive indexes.
The funny thing is, Bandai has me on their comp list now 'cuz of the anime page I write for OPM. I'm not sure if they just think I'm a different David Smith, or what.
DFS.
Drinky Crow
Banned
I think this article, grounded entirely in the author's self-love and peppered with accessible academic references, summarizes exactly what makes IC's authors so collectively silly: http://www.insertcredit.com/features/ishmael/
Best of all, it has no real POINT beyond a torturously shallow and uninsightful perspective on "art". The irony is that he claims good art is about communication -- izzat so, smarty man? How about you write me up some art that contains a decent fucking review of ANYTHING on your edgy postmodern website, eh? You can keep all the meta bullshit, though; self-referential gags and fourth wall asides are just so fucking Parker Posey.
Um, right.
Best of all, it has no real POINT beyond a torturously shallow and uninsightful perspective on "art". The irony is that he claims good art is about communication -- izzat so, smarty man? How about you write me up some art that contains a decent fucking review of ANYTHING on your edgy postmodern website, eh? You can keep all the meta bullshit, though; self-referential gags and fourth wall asides are just so fucking Parker Posey.
Um, right.
TekunoRobby
Tag of Excellence
The Drinky Crow IC-slams and the Dave Smith Love Hina review turned this thread into forum gold. I am both impressed and very grateful.
You professional review-jockeys must have a motley crew following you everywhere plotting your deaths.
You professional review-jockeys must have a motley crew following you everywhere plotting your deaths.
No, it does seem to have been taken down. Google link:WarPig said:
http://dvd.ign.com/articles/317653p1.html
Just gets a 404.
By the way, on the topic of injecting one's personality into a review, I'd like to introduce one of my two personal icons of media criticism (the other being Joe Bob Briggs): Dean Rasmussen of the Death Valley Driver Video Review.
DVDVR #135: "CIMA ranas Magnum's head into the turnbuckle after being shot in by Masaaki. Masaaki and Darkness double team Dragon Kid- Powerbombing him after taking his knee out. Darkness Dragon goes up top to finish off the Underling of Good while Masaaki holds him. Darkness tells Masaaki to move him back a little and move him back a little more and THEN JUMPS ONTO THE CAGE AND ESCAPES! Masaaki is going apeshit because he has been left out to dry. THEN IT GETS MOTHERFUCKING GREAT."
SMACKDOWN WORKRATE REPORT 5/2: "Funaki replaces Josh and WE- you and I- ARE FUCKING MOTHERFUCKING PISSED! Funaki has no odd chemistry with anyone. THE GIANT DOESN'T WANT TO FUCK FUNAKI. FUCK THIS SHIT! FUCK THIS! FUCK. THIS. FUCK. THIS. SHIT. WHAT THE FUCK?!?!"
DVDVR 132 : "Ultimo/Bucanero/Satanico have the FUCKING MOTHERFUCKING DOGFUCKINGLY GREAT matching Infernales Jackets and the jackets rule it so hard that it takes seconds for me to become agitated by the relentless sexuality of their unbelievably hot escorts. Tarzan Boy comes out with the pants that have the the sun emblazoned on his dick- thus exemplifying every man in the joint via his tiny tights. LL, Garza and Tarzan Boy are wearing the tiniest pants in the building and that is SO saying something at this little conflagration. This match rules and Infernales beats the fuck out of everybody male with a buttock hanging out the bottom of their shorts."
NITRO WORKRATE REPORT 2/8/99: "This shit sucks. US wrestling has always been behind the curve in the ring, but at least we USED to try to keep up. Now US wrestling promotions don't give a shit. They don't want to get it done in the ring, so they want to pass off The Sport Of Kings as a half-assed version of the New Adventures Of Sinbad. It's a disgrace to bad American television, not just what made wrestling great back when people who could work a match were the focal point. Fuck the WCW and the WWF."
It bums me out that there is no publication in this business yet where I am allowed say "FUCKING MOTHERFUCKING DOGFUCKINGLY GREAT" in a review and get paid for it.
DFS.
DVDVR #135: "CIMA ranas Magnum's head into the turnbuckle after being shot in by Masaaki. Masaaki and Darkness double team Dragon Kid- Powerbombing him after taking his knee out. Darkness Dragon goes up top to finish off the Underling of Good while Masaaki holds him. Darkness tells Masaaki to move him back a little and move him back a little more and THEN JUMPS ONTO THE CAGE AND ESCAPES! Masaaki is going apeshit because he has been left out to dry. THEN IT GETS MOTHERFUCKING GREAT."
SMACKDOWN WORKRATE REPORT 5/2: "Funaki replaces Josh and WE- you and I- ARE FUCKING MOTHERFUCKING PISSED! Funaki has no odd chemistry with anyone. THE GIANT DOESN'T WANT TO FUCK FUNAKI. FUCK THIS SHIT! FUCK THIS! FUCK. THIS. FUCK. THIS. SHIT. WHAT THE FUCK?!?!"
DVDVR 132 : "Ultimo/Bucanero/Satanico have the FUCKING MOTHERFUCKING DOGFUCKINGLY GREAT matching Infernales Jackets and the jackets rule it so hard that it takes seconds for me to become agitated by the relentless sexuality of their unbelievably hot escorts. Tarzan Boy comes out with the pants that have the the sun emblazoned on his dick- thus exemplifying every man in the joint via his tiny tights. LL, Garza and Tarzan Boy are wearing the tiniest pants in the building and that is SO saying something at this little conflagration. This match rules and Infernales beats the fuck out of everybody male with a buttock hanging out the bottom of their shorts."
NITRO WORKRATE REPORT 2/8/99: "This shit sucks. US wrestling has always been behind the curve in the ring, but at least we USED to try to keep up. Now US wrestling promotions don't give a shit. They don't want to get it done in the ring, so they want to pass off The Sport Of Kings as a half-assed version of the New Adventures Of Sinbad. It's a disgrace to bad American television, not just what made wrestling great back when people who could work a match were the focal point. Fuck the WCW and the WWF."
It bums me out that there is no publication in this business yet where I am allowed say "FUCKING MOTHERFUCKING DOGFUCKINGLY GREAT" in a review and get paid for it.
DFS.
IC doesn't bug me nearly as much as VGO. IC is just ... misguided, at times. perhaps at most times. but whatever. people do what they want to do. they don't harm nobody!
on the other hand, the VGO is an arrogant little prick. as was pointed out, we're all arrogant pricks... but i daresay that many of us have put in the time and effort and have the expertise and understanding to actually have earned the right to be arrogant pricks to a greater or lesser extent. (was that convoluted enough for you?)
sure, when i was in college, i was a know-it-all arrogant little prick with a chip on my shoulder. now, i'm a fairly-knowledgable and experienced, much more modest arrogant prick who only turns his sights onto those who deserve it. and not even all of them, for the sake of decorum.
hrm, shane is right -- this place is a slippery fucking slope. i should really stop posting.
on the other hand, the VGO is an arrogant little prick. as was pointed out, we're all arrogant pricks... but i daresay that many of us have put in the time and effort and have the expertise and understanding to actually have earned the right to be arrogant pricks to a greater or lesser extent. (was that convoluted enough for you?)
sure, when i was in college, i was a know-it-all arrogant little prick with a chip on my shoulder. now, i'm a fairly-knowledgable and experienced, much more modest arrogant prick who only turns his sights onto those who deserve it. and not even all of them, for the sake of decorum.
hrm, shane is right -- this place is a slippery fucking slope. i should really stop posting.
Most ombudsmen are selected from within the senior staff of the newspaper or broadcaster they monitor. A few are on fixed-term, noncancelable contracts. In any case, they typically have deep experience in journalism and are chosen also because they have the ability to relate easily and undefensively to readers.
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Who appointed this fellow to such a position? Did you all get together one E3 and decide what the industry needs is someone who can't afford a domain to needle you with criticisms regarding writing style?
---
Who appointed this fellow to such a position? Did you all get together one E3 and decide what the industry needs is someone who can't afford a domain to needle you with criticisms regarding writing style?
JackFrost2012
Banned
8bit said:
He's self-appointed.
JackFrost2012
Banned
8bit said:
Yes, and I encourage you to do so.
I'll agree that game mags feature lots of childish things in them, some mags are worse offenders than others - the swimsuit edition of PSM for instance... but a lot of reviews have been pretty decent. I'm happy to see that the latest XBN magazine gave The Guy Game a 0, for instance. The SO3 one is fine, but he spent too much time analyzing the flaws instead of concentrating on the positives. My biggest complaint about magazine reviews is they always try to attract the lowest common denominator with their reviews (giving inflated scores to 'big name' titles, unless they happen to be Driv3r or Enter The Matrix bad), they'll complain about how video games lack innovation and are just the same old thing, yet give a generic racer (Burnout 3) or the latest Madden, a 10/10, but Katamari Damacy, one of the most original games in years, an 8/10 or something.
And I happen to like IC's style of writing, you don't read the reviews to determine whether or not you want to play the game, you read them for entertainment, like a piece of fiction. I like IC's reviews (favorite being the Phantasy Star Collection review), because it gives you more insight into the person's life and helps me relate more to the author, instead of giving out a laundry list of flaws and positives and a few "witty" catchphrases. When reading Eric Jon's Phantasy Star 2 review, I was reminded of many of the feelings I had when I first played that game, and it gave me an even greater sense of nostalgia. I think a lot of people here are missing the point...
And I happen to like IC's style of writing, you don't read the reviews to determine whether or not you want to play the game, you read them for entertainment, like a piece of fiction. I like IC's reviews (favorite being the Phantasy Star Collection review), because it gives you more insight into the person's life and helps me relate more to the author, instead of giving out a laundry list of flaws and positives and a few "witty" catchphrases. When reading Eric Jon's Phantasy Star 2 review, I was reminded of many of the feelings I had when I first played that game, and it gave me an even greater sense of nostalgia. I think a lot of people here are missing the point...
Burnout 3 is generic? I must've missed that inbetween all the insane crashing and tug of war battles with other cars.
To get to the real point, though; that's not the point. Should Katamari score principle points just because it's very original, even if it's less fun than the "generic" BO3? Personally, I can't yet say which I had/have the most fun with, but Katamari was over way too quickly to warrant a 10/10. If originality has to be taken into account, so does longevity and other "asides". And I don't think I've ever read a review complaining about how all games lack innovation.
To get to the real point, though; that's not the point. Should Katamari score principle points just because it's very original, even if it's less fun than the "generic" BO3? Personally, I can't yet say which I had/have the most fun with, but Katamari was over way too quickly to warrant a 10/10. If originality has to be taken into account, so does longevity and other "asides". And I don't think I've ever read a review complaining about how all games lack innovation.
JackFrost2012
Banned
djtiesto said:
But I don't want to be best friends with the authors. I just wanna know about the damned game.
Well, you can check Gamespot/IGN/Gamespy and like 1000 sites for doing that, that will offer, preview, pre-preview, repreviews, reviews, director´s cut review, videos, video review and pictures. No matter how good or bad is the reviewer, I´m sure you will get a good idea of the game.
Seriuosly, I don´t blame IC being that way, I´m totally agree with ferricide. They do what they want and what they do is different, you can like it or not, but I find nice a place that speak about the games nobody speak and that make its reviews like nobody does (I don´t read them as reviews, I like to read them as features or essays).
BTW, that Love Hina review is brilliant, thank you for the laughs
Speaking of the Sony press conference, what the hell was that outfit DFS was wearing? I vaguely remember it being some sort of boyscout uniform with decorations or some such.
Re: the Love Hina review. I had my email published in the mailbag about it although I was basically the sole person who typed up a coherent reply that didnt amount to "U SUX."
Re: the Love Hina review. I had my email published in the mailbag about it although I was basically the sole person who typed up a coherent reply that didnt amount to "U SUX."
JackFrost2012
Banned
Gaijin To Ronin said:
Oh, I don't blame them. But, then, I don't read the site, either.
FortNinety
Member
The idea behind Kyle's site, I have to admit, is sound. I too feel that video game writers should be held accountable for what they write. I think the whole attitude of "it's only about video games" when it comes to accuracy and other legitimate "journalistic" concerns is a total cop-out. If more people took what they're doing seriously, perhaps we wouldn't have such poor writing or reviews that are glaringly flawed.
That being said, I can't admire Kyle going after David Smith since there's seem to be a tinge of sensationalism involved, and perhaps some jealousy as well.
And even though I said that game writers should take their work seriously, they should never take themselves too seriously. And anyone who writes a blog should never criticize anyone else who writes a blog (even if there is a major corporation behind it, cuz seriously... big business is behind everything).
Regarding Insert Credit, I myself am a regular member of their boards, and someone who might be writing a piece or two for the site in the near future, and all I can say is that it's definitely not everyone's cup of tea. I've never met Tim, and I'm not into his style of writing, but I think different ways to approaching the material should be approached. But even I'll admit the talk there gets a bit too "postmodern" for my tastes, though I'd like to think the folks who are there know this.
That being said, I can't admire Kyle going after David Smith since there's seem to be a tinge of sensationalism involved, and perhaps some jealousy as well.
And even though I said that game writers should take their work seriously, they should never take themselves too seriously. And anyone who writes a blog should never criticize anyone else who writes a blog (even if there is a major corporation behind it, cuz seriously... big business is behind everything).
Regarding Insert Credit, I myself am a regular member of their boards, and someone who might be writing a piece or two for the site in the near future, and all I can say is that it's definitely not everyone's cup of tea. I've never met Tim, and I'm not into his style of writing, but I think different ways to approaching the material should be approached. But even I'll admit the talk there gets a bit too "postmodern" for my tastes, though I'd like to think the folks who are there know this.
Drinky Crow
Banned
Part of being post-modern is KNOWING that you're being post-modern yet indulging yourself nonetheless.
as long as we're on the subject of insert credit: i've come to the unhappy realization that i like tim rogers. his defense of mgs 2 should've been enough to put me off permanently: it misread kojima's polyglot geekiness as postmodernity, conflated postmodernity with merit, and was generally very silly. but no, i read his e3 dispatch at some point, and i realized that i like tim rogers. because he can be really observant of games. he notices the kinds of things that familiarity has conditioned most of us not to. he said something very nicely observed about neo contra's aesthetic. and i realized that i hadn't noticed neo contra's aesthetic despite having played the demo five or six times. and it was apparent that tim rogers was on to something. that's not an especially good example. but in any case he can say things about games that are genuinely surprising, things i would never have thought of. has greg kasavin ever surprised you?
there was some academic paper about game criticism posted on gaf quite a while back, and of course it was roundly (and perhaps rightly) jeered at. one idea stuck in my head, though: that game criticism is predicated on the fallacy of "the neutrality of the ludic." the idea that because they're just games, we needn't concern ourselves with their content. and certainly i've gotten so hung up on game mechanics and framerates and little correspondences from one game to another that often i don't even notice what a game looks like, let alone what it might be saying. games haven't become neutral to tim rogers. he's capable of looking at them freshly. and observation is the soul of criticism. game criticism is largely unobservant. so yeah, most of what tim rogers writes is insufferably boring and vain and false. but there's talent under there, no matter how deranged, and a lot of us could stand to learn something from it.
actually this touches on why i dislike the gia and a lot of pro game writers. they've wed sophisticated diction to no insight whatsoever, and have convinced themselves that they've made the big step forward. i remember reading something in xbn about the controls in rallisport 2 that was moderately eloquent but completely inane and inappropriate and incommunicative, and i thought it was emblematic. i should go find it. and while some of the gia folks were undeniably clever, they were completely unwilling or unable to turn their intellects on the rich stupidities of the games they'd canonized. it was as if they'd decided what they liked and then started thinking and writing. their sophistication was an edifice built to protect entrenched, unexamined beliefs. totally specious and sophistic. no real observation.
there was some academic paper about game criticism posted on gaf quite a while back, and of course it was roundly (and perhaps rightly) jeered at. one idea stuck in my head, though: that game criticism is predicated on the fallacy of "the neutrality of the ludic." the idea that because they're just games, we needn't concern ourselves with their content. and certainly i've gotten so hung up on game mechanics and framerates and little correspondences from one game to another that often i don't even notice what a game looks like, let alone what it might be saying. games haven't become neutral to tim rogers. he's capable of looking at them freshly. and observation is the soul of criticism. game criticism is largely unobservant. so yeah, most of what tim rogers writes is insufferably boring and vain and false. but there's talent under there, no matter how deranged, and a lot of us could stand to learn something from it.
actually this touches on why i dislike the gia and a lot of pro game writers. they've wed sophisticated diction to no insight whatsoever, and have convinced themselves that they've made the big step forward. i remember reading something in xbn about the controls in rallisport 2 that was moderately eloquent but completely inane and inappropriate and incommunicative, and i thought it was emblematic. i should go find it. and while some of the gia folks were undeniably clever, they were completely unwilling or unable to turn their intellects on the rich stupidities of the games they'd canonized. it was as if they'd decided what they liked and then started thinking and writing. their sophistication was an edifice built to protect entrenched, unexamined beliefs. totally specious and sophistic. no real observation.
Jonnyboy117
Member
DCharlie said:
It was nice knowing him.
Drinky Crow
Banned
drohne: that's exactly my problem with Tim, IC, and even The GIA -- they DO have salient and credible observations about games that you can't often get elsewhere, but these little bon mots are totally buried in long-winded self-gratification. It's one part insight to eight parts self-congratulation for that insight, plus a remaining one part meta gag where they observe that they are being self-congratulatory but that's okay because they're so clever having made that insight in the first place. I honestly *want* to like these guys, but they just can't get over themselves and their insecurities over not being recognized as a "pro" or a quasi-celebrity.
Sorry, as a reader, I don't get how that's better than the stultifying five-paragraph style of the average pro reviewer save that in the logorrhea of the creative ego we occasionally get a real peanut. On the other hand, the constipated "pro" style tends to stink a LOT less and favors measurable quantities over qualitative excess, albeit largely to a fault.
What I'd like *is* what you suggest: insight, wed to a sharp and concise style. The cats at OMM had that down to almost an art form: when they were on, they were consistently funny but provided some surprising insight into games and the industry, and especially into the nature of gaming fandom. Best of all, they didn't give an fuck what we, the readers, thought: they knew they were right, and didn't waste any additional article space trying to wryly sell you on their qualifications.
Really, I've seen more sharp observations from Vestal, Smith, Orlando, Ricciardi et al on this forum and on the pages of their respective blogs then in any of their print reviews. Which kinda makes this Kyle fellow look even more retarded: the best reviews and insights come from a more personal approach rather than an ascetic adherence to the worst elements of college freshman Comp classes.
Sorry, as a reader, I don't get how that's better than the stultifying five-paragraph style of the average pro reviewer save that in the logorrhea of the creative ego we occasionally get a real peanut. On the other hand, the constipated "pro" style tends to stink a LOT less and favors measurable quantities over qualitative excess, albeit largely to a fault.
What I'd like *is* what you suggest: insight, wed to a sharp and concise style. The cats at OMM had that down to almost an art form: when they were on, they were consistently funny but provided some surprising insight into games and the industry, and especially into the nature of gaming fandom. Best of all, they didn't give an fuck what we, the readers, thought: they knew they were right, and didn't waste any additional article space trying to wryly sell you on their qualifications.
Really, I've seen more sharp observations from Vestal, Smith, Orlando, Ricciardi et al on this forum and on the pages of their respective blogs then in any of their print reviews. Which kinda makes this Kyle fellow look even more retarded: the best reviews and insights come from a more personal approach rather than an ascetic adherence to the worst elements of college freshman Comp classes.
StrikerObi
Member
Jonnyboy117 said:
I concur.
Jonnyboy117
Member
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Totally agree, Drinky. I'm going for that sweet spot in the middle, but man, it's hard.
Totally agree, Drinky. I'm going for that sweet spot in the middle, but man, it's hard.
Drinky Crow
Banned
I just read the Rogers E3 piece and I agree: he makes some really good observations about the Konami content (well, Nano Breaker and Neo Contra), although his gaga antics over Rumble Roses are worthless and largely embarrassing -- that's a case where some real discussion of mechanics might have served him well. Instead, he just wraps up his "ooo, tits!" approach in some safe meta-humor, as though that excuses his screaming erection.
Still, that's a lot of nasty-ass candy shell to crunch through just to get to the chewy center, and quite frankly, I feel all the sicker for it.
Still, that's a lot of nasty-ass candy shell to crunch through just to get to the chewy center, and quite frankly, I feel all the sicker for it.
It's a shame print media and pro web sites aren't "allowed" to describe games the way actual people do. For as many reviews as I've written for GameSpot, you won't find a single cuss word in the lot of 'em. But when my friends and I talk about games, we tend to swear a lot, call 'em names, and invoke allegories to big chested women and/or getting laid.
So I guess I don't mind it when some sites let their writers inject a little personality... just as long as the piece still gets across the information I'm looking for.
By that token, can I just say that playing Finding Nemo: The Continuing Adventures for GBA is a lot like watching my guinea pig take a shit while I'm holding him? It's mildly amusing, but then when I put him back in the cage I have to drop the poop pellet into the garbage and wash my hands because I have an allergy that can get pretty heinous with prolonged exposure. And taping a picture of a tropical fish onto him isn't going to change the fact that if I spend more than 15 minutes too close to him, I'll start to itch like crazy and have trouble breathing.
So I guess I don't mind it when some sites let their writers inject a little personality... just as long as the piece still gets across the information I'm looking for.
By that token, can I just say that playing Finding Nemo: The Continuing Adventures for GBA is a lot like watching my guinea pig take a shit while I'm holding him? It's mildly amusing, but then when I put him back in the cage I have to drop the poop pellet into the garbage and wash my hands because I have an allergy that can get pretty heinous with prolonged exposure. And taping a picture of a tropical fish onto him isn't going to change the fact that if I spend more than 15 minutes too close to him, I'll start to itch like crazy and have trouble breathing.
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