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GAF Canada: Paul Martin to Address the Canadian Public...on TV!
- Thread starter Memles
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OpinionatedCyborg
Member
Memles said:
BRIAN MULROONEY DID IT, AM I RITE? LOLZ
Speaking of lyin' Brian, the reason Harper won't get a majority is because of him. Thanks for:
-Adding more debt to the country than ALL peace time Prime Ministers combined, lol
-Nearly tearing Quebec from Canada by giving them blow jobs at every opportunity, lol.
-Getting involved with free trade. "The Canadians don't know what they've signed! In 20 years, they will be sucked into the US economy, lol," - Clayton Yeuttor, US Trade Representative
-Adding GST to compensate for the money lost to free trade, lol
-Patronaging it up with more than 500 patronage appoints just as he was about to crash n burn, lol
-All this, and much, much more
Brian Mulrooney once said "Give us 20 years, and you will not recognize this country." He wasn't joking. We gave him 11, and Canada's been reeling ever since. The above quote wasn't Brian speaking positively about the future. It was Brian threatening us with extinction.
It's the likes of Brian Mulrooney, and now the corrupt Liberal party, that make me such a cynic. Ah well, I'd rather be a cynic who eventually gets the truth, than a blind follower who'll quickly forget the mistakes made in the past. Fact is, if a politician isn't a douchebag at the start of their career, they will be by the end of it
OpinionatedCyborg said:BRIAN MULROONEY DID IT, AM I RITE? LOLZ
Speaking of lyin' Brian, the reason Harper won't get a majority is because of him. Thanks for:
-Adding more debt to the country than ALL peace time Prime Ministers combined, lol
-Nearly tearing Quebec from Canada by giving them blow jobs at every opportunity, lol.
-Getting involved with free trade. "The Canadians don't know what they've signed! In 20 years, they will be sucked into the US economy, lol," - Clayton Yeuttor, US Trade Representative
-Adding GST to compensate for the money lost to free trade, lol
-Patronaging it up with more than 500 patronage appoints just as he was about to crash n burn, lol
-All this, and much, much more
Brian Mulrooney once said "Give us 20 years, and you will not recognize this country." He wasn't joking. We gave him 11, and Canada's been reeling ever since. The above quote wasn't Brian speaking positively about the future. It was Brian threatening us with extinction.
It's the likes of Brian Mulrooney, and now the corrupt Liberal party, that make me such a cynic. Ah well, I'd rather be a cynic who eventually gets the truth, than a blind follower who'll quickly forget the mistakes made in the past. Fact is, if a politician isn't a douchebag at the start of their career, they will be by the end of it
Mulrooney was a jerk off. But Free Trade is good. We should go for free trade with China next
. GST is bullshit just like ANY tax is bullshit. We should all follow Alberta's example.
Fatghost28 said:Mulrooney was a jerk off. But Free Trade is good. We should go for free trade with China next
GST is bullshit just like ANY tax is bullshit. We should all follow Alberta's example.
Yeah...once you figure out a way to insert oil under every other province, get back to me on that one.
I thought it was the easiest way to say 'This is silly' without insulting you.Boogie said:C'mon, Socreges, you're an articulate guy, spit out what's on your mind. I won't be offended :lol
I think noting the "freedom, terror, liberty", etc thing that Bush does is very on point. You trying to draw a parallel to Martin required heavy exaggeration and came across as whiney.
I've actually been thinking about how desperately Canada needs an authoritarian government.... I'm on board.OpinionatedCyborg said:
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
If every province was blessed with vast, easily mined oil reserves like Alberta, then yeah, we could all follow Alberta's example.
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
Oh and wtf @ "every tax is bullshit." Taxes are part of the social contract we have with our governemnt to protect and provide us with services. If you'd rather not pay taxes, tear up that social contract, throw out all your belongings, and begin a life on the streets.
Socreges said:I thought it was the easiest way to say 'This is silly' without insulting you.
I think noting the "freedom, terror, liberty", etc thing that Bush does is very on point. You trying to draw a parallel to Martin required heavy exaggeration and came across as whiney.
I've actually been thinking about how desperately Canada needs an authoritarian government.... I'm on board.
Fair enough. I agree on Bush's rhetoric, and I admit to the heavy exaggeration too, but I object to the "whiney" label
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
NetMapel said:
Jesusland's troups are ready for deployment
Quit whining, bitch.
OpinionatedCyborg said:
After April I'll be a bit milder about taxes. But fuck we're over taxed here.
The government should just insure that the roads are maintained (which Ontario has done a shitty job of) That I don't have to worry about criminals running around (which the country has done a shitty job of lately, with bullshit sentancing). The government should make sure our borders are secure and should facilitate trade domestically and internationally. Finally, the government should allow me security of my person and my property.
All the rest I really don't think I should be paying government to do.
Boogie said:
I'm a douche cuz my hard earned money should be spent the way I want and not the way Paul Martin wants, even though HE moved his corporation's assets to another country to avoid paying Canadian taxes?
Which admittedly is a good idea and something I would have done if I didn't require licensing here to do what I do.
Boogie said:
Doesn't matter how you vote. It's up to you. You could be polite and thank me for funding your education and health care though if you're gonna insist on free riding on me
Edit: Just caught your edit, and frankly this is something about Canada I don't understand. It's like it's a given that we must as Canadians believe in socialized health care. It's as if Socialized Health Care(tm) is the defining characteristic of Canada, and frankly that's fucking sad. Our system is a cash hog, it's bloated, it doesn't work well, doctors and nurses don't get paid what they deserve, the infrastructure is crumbling, the delivery mechanisms are unwieldy, entire communities are not served well or even at all, and yet we spend more per capita on health care than almost every other country. Our system doesn't fucking work and yet most Canadians would say health care is our fucking national identity.
I don't get it. I just don't. Don't any of you want a health care system where you could see a doctor within an hour or get treatment within a reasonable time? A system where you're getting value for your money and where you can get a doctor no matter where you live?
Because as someone who has medical conditions, I can tell you we already HAVE a two tiered system. The very wealthy or desperate just go outside the country for treatment, or else have connections within the system where a doctor makes room in their schedule to see someone, while everyone else is frozen out of the system.
Fatghost28 said:= Shorter winters and longer hotter summers?
Canada would only improve if such a thing could come to pass.
It equals "Flooding"...duh. And that means your business holding will be ruined and then you'll be on welfare and then you'll realize that, like Jersey Girl and Penny-Arcade, it's not FOR you. Government doesn't exist to appease the highest tax bracket, it exists for all Canadians. That's why special interests, aka the Rich and Successful, aren't allowed to govern the decisions of a nation.
Okay, let us consider something. There are many pros and cons about privatizing our health care system. The major pro is that we might not have to wait for too long in order to get a doctor's appointment. The con is that if something bad does unfortunately happen to you, then your bill would be astronaumical. Not saying you will get into an accident or something, but think about when you get older and require medical attention. Judging from our American counterparts, your saving will definitely not be able to cover your medical bills, and that is considering no serious accidents happen to you. Many people died because they couldn't afford their medicines and so on ! So, ultimately, are you willing to gamble your life on that, or pay the tax annually and feel safe about your health and know that you will be taken care of shall something happens to you ?Memles said:
There is also the option of privatizing our education... well, do you want to pay tuition money for your primary school and highschool ? Also, the tuition for your post-secondary education will most likely increase significantly because of that. In the end, you want to have government supported education... because I cannot imagine it being privatized.
Lastly, privatizing R&D !?!? Well... government will then have to spend tons of money to buy the inventions from private research centres. I don't see how that can work to our benefits.
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
You know, perhaps we should give Harper a chance. After all, with the shitty streak of PM's the Conservatives have going for them, the odds that their next PM will be decent is in their favour. Johnny Mac am cry
NetMapel said:
There is a simple way around the cost of private health care. Critical Illness Insurance, a QUALITY disability insurance plan, and health insurance (again, a quality plan). Not relying solely on crappy group plans your employer might provide.
All government needs to do is to subsidize the premiums for any Canadians who are in a lower income bracket and/or have an ailment or condition that makes them a substandard risk (but not subsidize smokers, drug users, or the morbidly obese). The government pays a percentage of the premium but not the entire premium, so you discourage frivolous claims.
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
NetMapel said:
The solution to our flagging health care system would appear to be a tier for those who want to pay for their health care, and one for those who don't. I believe all Canadians have a right to free, quality health care, but I'm not sure I'm opposed to offering streamlined care to the rich either. While it's quite morally ambiguous, why shouldn't the rich be allowed to seek quick treatment if they're footing the bill? Hell, half the time they travel to the States to receive surgery. At least with a two tiered system, we'd be keeping our doctors in Canada, and taking some of the burden off universal health care. What do ya'll think?
Fatghost28 said:
Okay...I said that I hope all of your holdings are by the ocean, so that when the floods come they get ruined, so karma bites you in the essay for referring to Kyoto as shit. I wasn't actually insinuating flooding would ruin you.
Government IS Special interest groups...but when those groups represent all aspects of the population and there is a general liberal underpinning to the basic constitution of the state and the social programs that have been part of Canada for generations, that isn't a problem. It's when one specific interest group is able to control everything, such as The Rich, that the problems arise and lower income brackets get screwed by money-grabbing douchebags.
And, conservatives, I hate to break this to you but Stephen Harper could never hold a majority in the House of Commons. Their lack of support in BC, Atlantic Canada and Quebec will keep that from being a realization. They would have to take all of Ontario to really have a shot of forming a government. If Harper comes to power, it will be in a minority situation, where many of these brilliant plans for heath care and the like will more or less be impossible to move through the house, especially consideriing that the NDP, Liberals and the Bloc all lean to the left on social issues.
The problem is though, the poor or lower-income bracket probably do not have the money to buy those insurance and stuff. How awful would you be if you are ill and the doctor won't perform treatment on you simply because the doctor doesn't think you won't be able to afford the treatment ?Fatghost28 said:
Fatghost28 said:
That's nice. Have a cookie.
Seriously; we love to hear how you're SO successful that you get raped in income taxes. We feel your pain as we languish with student debt and the lack of funding for important social programs. But, to be honest, I don't really care. I don't care that people with more money than me feel hurt by the government. Why? Because they have more money than me.
Whereas, people who are LESS fortunate...it's like the government has a choice. Rape the rich, or rape the poor. And, the poor has more experience (money) so it will hurt less. Thus, the decision is easy.
It's the way it works, we get you're angry, vote for the Conservatives and enjoy yet another ineffective minority government that will accomplish nothing of what Harper promises.
Health Care will not be fixed by privatization or even some sort of two-tiered system. I mean, it exists already to an extent. I went to a generally affluent high school, and people would have an injury and have an MRI the next day. Why? Because there's a Private MRI Clinic in Halifax. We do not need to create even more ingrained divisions between the rich and the poor than those that exist now; it will only harm our society in terms of equality and the quality of living of the average Canadian.
In reality, the middle class are the ones contributing the most towards our tax. Let's just say you're middle class and you are ill and went to see a doctor. Unfortunately, the clinic happens to be occupied by people who are richer than you. The doctor, of course, examines those who are richer first and left you hanging there for a very long time. I am just more worried about potential bribary and stuff that could happen if our health care system is privatized.OpinionatedCyborg said:
NetMapel said:
Like I said, you have the government subsidize the premiums. For the lowest income brackets, you'd probably have a 10/90 split individual/government subsidy. It would be a few dollars a month. Hell, set it up so that the individual's share comes out of their tax refund instead of their chequing account.
The advantages are that the government wouldn't be paying for the entire system, just the premiums (mostly for lower income brackets, higher income brackets would likely pay their whole deal, with a few exceptions). So that's a lower operating cost for the government. Plus, we could sell off all public holdings like hospitals and clinics and pay down a big chunk of the provincial debt.
With a split premium payment, frivolous claims would be discouraged, and the tax savings even for the middle class and low incomes would probably still make up for or even be higher than their share of the premiums.
Fuck, this new "health premium" in Ontario costs more than a 200,000 Critical Illness policy for a healthy 20 something male even at the lowest income bracket!
Boogie said:Forget Health Care, I'd rather see him try to defend the idea of no government spending on education
To be fair, the federal government does not directly fund education (Transfer Payments to provinces)...but if he's speaking provincially as well then that WOULD be entertaining.
I'm more interested in the fiscal plan that makes it as if all of Canada is built on Oil.
Memles said:
Well, I paid my own way through school by running a small business on the side. Find something you like and are good at and start a business around it. What I did was start a consulting company that helped Canadian companies find businesses in China to set up joint ventures. I used one year's worth of student loans as seed capital (a few thousand bucks Canadian goes a LONG way in China.) and went from there. I'm 25 now and while I'm not doing business to business consulting and brokering anymore (I'm in investments now) I definately think starting that first corporation back then was one of the smartest things I ever did.
I'm not really as angry as it seems like in my posts. I'm doing my income tax right now so it's really just tonight that I'm really mad. I do think we should lower taxes quite a bit though.
We have a two tiered system now. I say, go fully private and subsidize health insurance for people. It's stupid to have the government fully fund the whole system. Costs too much and doesn't deliver enough value. Let private companies run the show, lower costs and seek profit, let competition improve the system and attract more quality people, and just have the government help out with insurance premiums for the people who need it.
I just simply do not think privatizing education completely like US is the way to go. American universities cost A LOT more than the Canadian ones, and they are fully privatized. As for the transfer of payment to provinces, the federal government has actually changed that policy slightly. Now, the federal government will transfer bits of money to the provinces and label which fund can be used on what. So something like the federal government will have calculated the fund needed for Alberta's health care, the government then send that amount of money to Alberta and restrict that money to only health care uses. It's really a hectic system if you ask me.Memles said:
Boogie said:Forget Health Care, I'd rather see him try to defend the idea of no government spending on education
I'll admit, I really haven't thought much about our education system. Give me a few days to think about it and I'm sure I could come up with something good though.
Fatghost28 said:
As an Arts major, this "business" thing you're talking about is an abstract concept...and, for the record, I will have little or no student debt coming out of University because of good fiscal planning from my parents. So, I'm speaking more for the masses than myself.
It's like you keep quoting me as if I disagreed with you! I agree! Although, there are public schools in the states...they're just...you know..."challenged".
Speaking for the masses ? I know more people with student loans than those who do not, and I go to the University of Western Ontario which is suppose to be composed of rich kids ! In reality, most parents don't plan well for the children in terms of their university funding :|Memles said:
Fatghost28 said:
I'll clarify: An Arts Major who actually plans on the insane task of remaining in the Arts after graduating instead of finding a more profitable and business-relate venture, which he thinks would be insanely uninteresting and unnerving for him.
I'll take your sage advice into account...and if the Conservatives come into power, build my palace inland.
NetMapel said:
I meant I was speaking for the masses when I refered to the terror of student debts in society earlier, not that I think most students have no debt.
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