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GAF Canada: Paul Martin to Address the Canadian Public...on TV!

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Azih

Member
You know Fatghost, what you're proposing is basically very similar to the American Health care system and uh.. they spend MORE than we do (as percentage of GDP) and have worse average care.

Sure rich Americans have some of the best healthcare in the world, but poor americans get fucked.

Edit: And by lowering taxes governments wouldn't be ABLE to subsidse health care premiums for poor Canadians.

PLUS you've heard of the horror stories that come out of private retirement homes? say hello to that kinda cost cutting all across your brand spanking new privatised system.

What's next? Paying for ambulance rides? Oh wait, THAT'S ALREADY TRUE in the U.S!

How about getting the plug pulled on your comatose body if you can't afford the hospital bed? YEEHAW TEXAS WILL BE OUR ROLE MODEL!



Frankly I don't see why you don't want to learn from the Scanadinavian countries who have kickass healthcare and way higher taxes.
 

Fatghost

Gas Guzzler
Azih said:
You know Fatghost, what you're proposing is basically very similar to the American Health care system and uh.. they spend MORE than we do (as percentage of GDP) and have worse average care.

Sure rich Americans have some of the best healthcare in the world, but poor americans get fucked.


No, what I'm proposing is different in a few ways. The americans have a poorly implemented two tier system (private/medicaid). What I'm proposing is a single tier, fully privatized system with a subsidy.
 

Azih

Member
Missed my edit:


Edit: And by lowering taxes governments wouldn't be ABLE to subsidse health care premiums for poor Canadians.

PLUS you've heard of the horror stories that come out of private retirement homes? say hello to that kinda cost cutting all across your brand spanking new privatised system.

What's next? Paying for ambulance rides? Oh wait, THAT'S ALREADY TRUE in the U.S!

How about getting the plug pulled on your comatose body if you can't afford the hospital bed? YEEHAW TEXAS WILL BE OUR ROLE MODEL!



Frankly I don't see why you don't want to learn from the Scanadinavian countries who have kickass healthcare and way higher taxes.
 
Frankly i dont go see the doctor often i wouldnt mind lower taxes and paying a bit for healthcare when i need it. Dont want it US levels tho.
 

Suranga3

Member
I voted NPD last election, I'm going to change it up this time, toss up between the green party and the marijuana party.
 

NetMapel

Guilty White Male Mods Gave Me This Tag
Kabuki Waq said:
Frankly i dont go see the doctor often i wouldnt mind lower taxes and paying a bit for healthcare when i need it. Dont want it US levels tho.
Then you might be quite dissapointed when people richer than you kept on nodging into the line in front of you :p
 

Shinobi

Member
Fatghost28 said:
Doesn't matter how you vote. It's up to you. You could be polite and thank me for funding your education and health care though if you're gonna insist on free riding on me ;)

Edit: Just caught your edit, and frankly this is something about Canada I don't understand. It's like it's a given that we must as Canadians believe in socialized health care. It's as if Socialized Health Care(tm) is the defining characteristic of Canada, and frankly that's fucking sad. Our system is a cash hog, it's bloated, it doesn't work well, doctors and nurses don't get paid what they deserve, the infrastructure is crumbling, the delivery mechanisms are unwieldy, entire communities are not served well or even at all, and yet we spend more per capita on health care than almost every other country. Our system doesn't fucking work and yet most Canadians would say health care is our fucking national identity.

I don't get it. I just don't. Don't any of you want a health care system where you could see a doctor within an hour or get treatment within a reasonable time? A system where you're getting value for your money and where you can get a doctor no matter where you live?

Because as someone who has medical conditions, I can tell you we already HAVE a two tiered system. The very wealthy or desperate just go outside the country for treatment, or else have connections within the system where a doctor makes room in their schedule to see someone, while everyone else is frozen out of the system.

On point...anyone who thinks the current medical system is something to be proud of has their head so far up their own ass they could lick their own ribs. Which isn't to say I believe it should be privitized, but in it's current state it's a complete and utter piece of shit. And that's got nothing to do with the Conservatives. For what we pay in taxes, we deserve far, FAR better. But there's little chance of us demanding that, being a nation of pussies.

Liberals have been nothing but a fraud for a good decade. They rode into power following the worst PM in history on a pack of lies (aka the red book) they didn't even need to make, and have been stealing ever since. And Ontario in particular has been getting assfucked by this government for years. So fuck 'em. If Harper and the Conservatives can ensure that Ontario is no longer paying out $23 billion more to Ottawa then they're taking in, then so be it.

Everybody right now only cares about what they want, so I'm using the same tact now. Oh BTW, fuck same sex marriage...wanna live in holy matrimony as Peter and Paul, go to fucking Holland. Couldn't give a fuck about that overblown issue.

My biggest problem with Harper and co is the fear that they'd bend over and take Bush's log up their ass on any little matter that DC wants, which was certainly the case with Tony Blair regarding Iraq. I'm not interested in compromising or affliating with those dickweeds on any level if it means selling yourself out. But that's about it...the way some people talk, you'd think the Conservatives were the second coming of the nazi party. Though I guess when you've got renmants of the Reform party in the midst, it's hard to blame them. :lol
 

Draff

Member
1. The problem with your idea of a system is that private healthcare won't solve the situation in rural areas; clinics won't set up in areas that they don't deem "profitable".

2. And with private clinics, they have profit in mind. So in reality, they may save a few dollars and reduce patient testing, etc.

3. Even with insurance, who would control the prices? I mean, I have dental insurance but the price of a cleanup WITH insurance seems like what I should pay without insurance even though it's mostly covered.

It only SEEMS like a good idea until you're in a position to use health care. We shouldn't move to a situation where people are reluctant to go to the doctor to save money.
 

bishoptl

Banstick Emeritus
TheOMan said:
However, who would you rather have in power Bishop?
ME. Like you said, all of the other choices are really no choice at all. God, sometimes this country makes me want to strangle a manatee in the nude.....argh...
 

Memles

Member
explodet said:
Martin to Canadians: "Up yours, Gagliano!"

EDIT: Man, Harper is just savaging Martin. This could be getting personal.

Harper took full advantage of Martin's play to save face and rightfully eviscerated him. I still think he's wrong for the country, but Martin dropped the ball with this move and Harper picked it up and nailed him in the face with it.
 

Boogie

Member
Memles said:
Harper took full advantage of Martin's play to save face and rightfully eviscerated him. I still think he's wrong for the country, but Martin dropped the ball with this move and Harper picked it up and nailed him in the face with it.

Ooh, what's happened? I was at Jiu-jitsu, so I'm in the dark.
 

Memles

Member
Boogie said:
Ooh, what's happened? I was at Jiu-jitsu, so I'm in the dark.

First, if you want all the details, transcripts of all three mostly English speeches are at www.globeandmail.com. Crappy Real Video available at CBC of all 4.

Martin: "We will call an election one month after the Gomery Inquiry and let Canada decide then"
Harper: "The Liberals are trying to buy time to clean up their own mess, not the nation's. They're corrupt, not Canada, and *Insert Party Line*"
Duceppe: "Liberals are traitorous bastards who should rot in hell" (Or: Party Line)
Layton: "What we should really be worried about is Smog and other important issues of a social nature"
 

Laurent

Member
c_invivo.jpg


LIBÉREZ-NOUS DES LIBÉRAUX!
 

Shinobi

Member
Boogie said:
I just read the transcripts.

I know I'm biased, but it seems like Harper really owned Martin there.

Even Mrs Martin knows her hubby got owned tonight. Stupid move on his part.

BTW, it's pretty funny that the Liberals want the opposition to wait until the inquiry is done before forcing an election. It was barely a year ago that the same opposition wanted the Liberals to postpone last year's election before the inquiry was complete. Of course Martin and co felt there was no need for Canada to wait, went ahead and called it. But now we should wait till the inquiry is done to get a new election...yeah, okay. As the bullshit continues...
 

Laurent

Member
I am all with making fun of this stupid move, but religious comments should have been used while laughing of the Conservative Party... Anyway...
 

Azih

Member
Yeah. Martin got a black eye as he couldn't talk about anything except the scandal while the other two talked about things that the government should be doing.
 

Memles

Member
Laurent said:
I am all with making fun of this stupid move, but religious comments should have been used while laughing of the Conservative Party... Anyway...

...where did I tallk about religion, exactly? I said "Hell" and that was it...there was no religious comment in there. I was stressing how very angry Duceppe seemed, more than anything else. His speech was one of frustration, anger and almost rage against the Liberals...if you see religion in every use of the word hell, I'm confused but at least understand your confusion.
 

Laurent

Member
Memles said:
...where did I tallk about religion, exactly? I said "Hell" and that was it...there was no religious comment in there. I was stressing how very angry Duceppe seemed, more than anything else. His speech was one of frustration, anger and almost rage against the Liberals...if you see religion in every use of the word hell, I'm confused but at least understand your confusion.
Well, you can't really talk about HELL without stating your religious belief... It seems obvious to me!
 

Memles

Member
Laurent said:
Well, you can't really talk about HELL without stating your religious belief... It seems obvious to me!

Wait a second...you're saying that hell isn't a secular ideal?

Do tell, because as far as I'm concerned Hell has become as far removed from religion as it could possibly get.
 

Laurent

Member
Memles said:
Wait a second...you're saying that hell isn't a secular ideal?

Do tell, because as far as I'm concerned Hell has become as far removed from religion as it could possibly get.
This may not be an internationnal convention. One thing is for sure, you can't talk about HELL in french without refering to a religious belief... I wasn't aware that this concept was removed from it's religious rooth in the english language...
 

Memles

Member
Laurent said:
This may not be an internationnal convention. One thing is for sure, you can't talk about HELL in french without refering to a religious belief... I wasn't aware that this concept was removed from it's religious rooth in the english language...

It is impossible to remove the roots of something...but at the same time people forget it. When people say "Go to hell" they are not silently plotting an actual descent into the Earth and the religious meanings of the term. I'm not saying that "Hell" as an idea has becoming secular, but the word itself is more of a less offensive expletive than it is a representation of faith.
 

Laurent

Member
Memles said:
It is impossible to remove the roots of something...but at the same time people forget it. When people say "Go to hell" they are not silently plotting an actual descent into the Earth and the religious meanings of the term. I'm not saying that "Hell" as an idea has becoming secular, but the word itself is more of a less offensive expletive than it is a representation of faith.
That expression in french (which is a version of "Va donc chez le diable!") isn't used anymore nowdays... Anyway, sorry for taking that thing too seriously!
 
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