• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

GAF Indie Game Development Thread 2: High Res Work for Low Res Pay

Status
Not open for further replies.

Ito

Member
Hey GAF:

One of the projects I'm collaborating in as freelance artist is looking for voice actors and actresses.

It's a small game intended for arcade cabinets (as far as I know) and they're looking for:

-3 male voice actors (one Brittish, other Irish/Scottish, and other American).
-4 female voice actresses (two Brittish and two American).

It would be a short gig, and all the lines are ready to be recorded. It's a paid job of course. I know the CEO personally and he can be trusted (I've been working with him for over 6 months).


If anyone is interested, please send me a PM so we can talk further into detail.
 

Five

Banned
Most is done with realistic textures and regular models, first I played around with taking those textures and making them more painterly but it isn't really worth the effort since it looks almost the same at the end because the post processing effects are so heavy. There are some things that don't look good without the post processing shader like some blending of the textures and faked drop shadows where it blends and that water splash meshes are pretty simple bashed together.
For this particular painting/level I'm aiming for something semi realistic painterly to really try pushing it in that direction but I also like to make totally abstract simplistic paintings.

That's really cool! Thanks for explaining. You're doing an amazing job, so please keep on sharing.
 
This really reminds me of Dragon Warrior on the NES, love the look. Is this like a Tactics-style game?

Yes, it's a tactics-style game. And I imagine the reason it reminds you of Dragon Quest is because those orange knights are placeholder art from the SNES version of Dragon Quest. I also referenced the first town when creating the tileset, to help me fill it out with the pieces I'll probably need:

DragonWarrior-Brecconary.png
Eb5yHCr.gif

Though I've been using a different layout lately, to help highlight some tiles I'll need when I start drawing again (like prison bars, more room objects to visually identify the difference between an armor shop versus a pharmacy, etc).

 
Starting to polish up and add in tile and background art for some of the stages in GunWorld 2.

I'm looking for some people who might be willing to do some playtesting periodically, our first playtest build will be next week and will include 2 levels.

Going right from the hip here. This:

That's not even interpretation. Way too close to the sun, dude. Way too damn close.
 
Going right from the hip here. This:


That's not even interpretation. Way too close to the sun, dude. Way too damn close.

I need to redraw that sky for sure.

The tiles are similar too, but those were drawn in house. I don't think the background layers are that similar other than the color selection. It's a really limited palette, makes it hard to find good colors for showing depth across multiple layers. They picked a great series of colors. I guess I don't know what to say, I'm a Shovel Knight fan but this was really an accident. I can also say this is the only one of ten levels in GW2 that looks like a Shovel Knight level (I just double checked to make sure!). I don't know how I didn't notice this.

EDIT: Trying to take a real deep look at those two pictures and if I'm being honest and (hopefully) not oblivious, I don't think they are that similar other than the sky. My tiles are very different, they even use a different color choice. My background layers use some similar colors (limited pallette) but also uses more colors and the trees and landscape look completely different.

I can see why the comparison is there now (after somebody made it), but I really don't think they look alike other than the sky, which I'm still absolutely going to redraw.
 
Way more than clouds, IMO. Even the spiky teal/green BG layer not only sports the same color but the same design. The only major difference are the trees - they are a different shape. This is definitely flying too close to the sun, if I'm being honest. I don't know who does your art when you say "in house" but whoever it is will get you in trouble. I don't like bagging on people's work but that's just flat out tracing and moving a few pixels for a majority of the composition. If it's the same guy that traced sprites for Glitch Warrior then I'd look elsewhere. The two-headed fire breathing duck was a copy/pasta of the dog from MM2. Even the eyes were the same. Animations on main character and other stuff.

I'd get to cracking down on that stuff because not only is it blatant - its just not right. Interpretation can be a powerful tool but this doesn't even begin to expand on someone else's ideas, it just shuffles them around a bit. Dangerous ground. I don't want to be a dick by speaking out but this is a bit much.

Pull from film, literature, music, theatre, but definitely not from other games like this. Use them as inspiration, not drawing boards.

Just my .02
 
Way more than clouds, IMO. Even the spiky teal/green BG layer not only sports the same color but the same design. The only major difference are the trees - they are a different shape. This is definitely flying too close to the sun, if I'm being honest. I don't know who does your art when you say "in house" but whoever it is will get you in trouble. I don't like bagging on people's work but that's just flat out tracing and moving a few pixels for a majority of the composition. If it's the same guy that traced sprites for Glitch Warrior then I'd look elsewhere. The two-headed fire breathing duck was a copy/pasta of the dog from MM2. Even the eyes were the same. Animations on main character and other stuff.

I'd get to cracking down on that stuff because not only is it blatant - its just not right. Interpretation can be a powerful tool but this doesn't even begin to expand on someone else's ideas, it just shuffles them around a bit. Dangerous ground. I don't want to be a dick by speaking out but this is a bit much.

Pull from film, literature, music, theatre, but definitely not from other games like this. Use them as inspiration, not drawing boards.

Just my .02

The issues with some of our previous art have been addressed. We have a new artist, we can't have issues like people thinking we've ripped off or stolen assets, so you'll understand why I take this accusation so personally right now.

34B97Nn.png


I've highlighted a couple of different portions of the two screenshots you used as comparisons, ignoring the clouds because I've already stated that it was unintentional but still going to be redrawn.

In the top comparison we see both the trees and horizon line that Shovel Knight's style uses. While the use of a dark teal with a lighter green highlight is similar, you'll notice that even within the very limited NES color palette we didn't even end up using the same colors, just a similar idea. You'll also notice we use more colors. You've already stated the trees are completely different but I'm still pointing that out, they're more than just "round", the texturing style and use of the dark colors for detailing/depth is completely different in the two art styles.

The horizon lines used in Shovel Knight in this forested stage are straight, with horizontal accent lines to provide minor detail/depth. The way our horizon is drawn is only similar in the sense that it reuses the two colors we used for the first layer of trees (just as Shovel Knight did). I'd hardly say that using colors to display depth in this fashion is something Shovel Knight invented. Aside from the two-color depth, you'll see the horizons are not the same at all. Our horizon has jagged geometry and a completely different method of showcasing detail/depth in the floor. Although I sit here pretty upset to see them using a similar "spiky teal background" I'm still going to defend that it was something we drew on our own. Why is it the same teal? Because we both used the same color palette and there's really only one teal. Why even use teal? Probably the same reason they did, because the selection of colors pretty much forces you to. Why is it spiky? Because it's a hill with trees on it and using two-tone colors for that deep of depth just makes the screen busy. I'd be happy to export that background asset, you won't find any two pixels that are alike on the Shovel Knight background. Like the sky though, it's pretty similar, so it'll probably be redrawn.

I blew up the tiles used in Shovel Knight for grass and dirt to compare to the tiles used in GunWorld 2 for grass and dirt. Again, they both use a two-tone brown and green, but the texturing is completely different. Shovel Knight doesn't draw rocks in a similar texture to the way that we do (at least not in this shot you provided).

You're going to see similarities to other games in GunWorld 2. It's made to look like an exaggerated NES game, and we've used a lot of the same inspirations Shovel Knight did, so it's no surprise that some methods are similar (the use of two-tone colors for texturing), but they aren't identical, and they absolutely aren't altered or stolen assets.

I thought long and hard about whether or not I should take that comparison shot completely to heart, which is why I've analyzed their tiles and backgrounds against ours, and I stand by what we've produced and take offense to the accusation that any assets are being stolen. The sky is way too similar, and I'm thankful that was brought to my attention because it's being redrawn, but there was nothing malicious about its production.

If I'm absolutely crazy then I need to hear it now before it bites me in the ass later, but I strongly believe our assets are different enough that with that sky redrawn you wouldn't even fight to make this comparison again. I believe that even more so having double checked all of our artwork for other stages in the game specifically against Shovel Knight and find nothing else similar. It's this one scene that looks similar but it's not the same.
 
Can I get some more input on here? I think it'd be beneficial to have more voices.

I definitely think they look extremely close, but that's not entirely your fault. The limited color palette and same area theme are definitely not helping, but I agree that the overall vibe is that of "heavily inspired-by" at the very least.

I'm not an artist, so I can't really offer too much advice, but maybe you could add other tile variations (stone, mud, etc.) to break out of the "grass, dirt and wood" tileset that's showcased in both screenshots.
 
I definitely think they look extremely close, but that's not entirely your fault. The limited color palette and same area theme are definitely not helping, but I agree that the overall vibe is that of "heavily inspired-by" at the very least.

I'm not an artist, so I can't really offer too much advice, but maybe you could add other tile variations (stone, mud, etc.) to break out of the "grass, dirt and wood" tileset that's showcased in both screenshots.

I'll be making some more comparisons to other parts of this level in Shovel Knight in particular, and am gonna make some changes where I feel necessary. What I found issue with was the accusation that the majority of the artwork was simply stolen from SK with some pixels moved around. That's not the case and I think I explained that well enough in my previous post.
 

Jobbs

Banned
This is how my penis plant ended up, to anyone who was in my caffiene fueled bizarre 3am stream last night. I started out cranked out of my head, and after an hour I was crashing hard.

So, yea, I did finish the penis after I got up.

CJhW0SlUMAIryyV.png
 
This is how my penis plant ended up, to anyone who was in my caffiene fueled bizarre 3am stream last night. I started out cranked out of my head, and after an hour I was crashing hard.

So, yea, I did finish the penis after I got up.

CJhW0SlUMAIryyV.png

it's like you planted obvious innuendos in your post
 

mStudios

Member
This is how my penis plant ended up, to anyone who was in my caffiene fueled bizarre 3am stream last night. I started out cranked out of my head, and after an hour I was crashing hard.

So, yea, I did finish the penis after I got up.

CJhW0SlUMAIryyV.png

4/10 Not enough plant-penises -IGN.com
 

Jintor

Member
in non dick related news, with lil's help I fixed my hitbox problem, and also I'm going to bitsummit tomorrow and will hopefully meet lots of indies and people and whatnot yay!
 
I'll be making some more comparisons to other parts of this level in Shovel Knight in particular, and am gonna make some changes where I feel necessary. What I found issue with was the accusation that the majority of the artwork was simply stolen from SK with some pixels moved around. That's not the case and I think I explained that well enough in my previous post.

I hate to make you go through this again, man, but that looks way too similar to be an accident. You've already accepted that the sky is too similar, but look even closer at the sky in the comparison shot that Absinthe posted, specifically at the right set of clouds. The shape is nearly the exact same.

Further, here is another shot from the intro level of Shovel Knight:


You can see it now, right? The intro level of Shovel Knight has an outside area that has more of a dirt tile, which Absinthe posted, but it also has more of an underground area that has this more rocky tile. And this is the tile that looks almost exactly like the one from your game. Even the grass is the same - flat on top, jagged on the bottom, and a darker shade of green at the bottom near the jaggedness. Blow those tiles up and compare those, like you did in your earlier post.

And yes, this is from the final build.

Here's another comparison, for a look at another specific spot:


In the shot from your game, look what the green frog on the right is standing on. It's a two-tile-wide pillar that starts of a lighter brown and gets darker as it goes down. Now look at the Shovel Knight pic, at the two-tile-wide pillar to the right of the further-right ladder. Again, nearly the exact same. =/

I hate to break it to ya, but this isn't a coincidence. I know it's the project you're working on, so it's hard to see it for what it is, but this is too obvious. You shouldn't be offended by Absinthe. They're right: Way too close to the sun.

edit: Erm, I'm new to the posting images thing. Any reason why I can't click on mine to make them bigger?
 
I hate to make you go through this again, man, but that looks way too similar to be an accident. You've already accepted that the sky is too similar, but look even closer at the sky in the comparison shot that Absinthe posted, specifically at the right set of clouds. The shape is nearly the exact same.

Further, here is another shot from the intro level of Shovel Knight:



You can see it now, right? The intro level of Shovel Knight has an outside area that has more of a dirt tile, which Absinthe posted, but it also has more of an underground area that has this more rocky tile. And this is the tile that looks almost exactly like the one from your game. Even the grass is the same - flat on top, jagged on the bottom, and a darker shade of green at the bottom near the jaggedness. Blow those tiles up and compare those, like you did in your earlier post.

And yes, this is from the final build.

Here's another comparison, for a look at another specific spot:



In the shot from your game, look what the green frog on the right is standing on. It's a two-tile-wide pillar that starts of a lighter brown and gets darker as it goes down. Now look at the Shovel Knight pic, at the two-tile-wide pillar to the right of the further-right ladder. Again, nearly the exact same. =/

I hate to break it to ya, but this isn't a coincidence. I know it's the project you're working on, so it's hard to see it for what it is, but this is too obvious. You shouldn't be offended by Absinthe. They're right: Way too close to the sun.

edit: Erm, I'm new to the posting images thing. Any reason why I can't click on mine to make them bigger?

I can make arguments as to how they aren't alike from Absinthe's screenshot, but not those. All I can say is what the fuck.

Here's a screenshot from our last game, which is what I was supplying as an example of how I wanted to do rock textures this time around.

ss_5ff710640aaf76abb8661ca96b91cd08d49a6006.1920x1080.jpg


I always drew rock textures in 2d like this, I wanted our new artist to do the same. SK can't be the only game that does this?

Again, I haven't played SK in a while but I compared it to all of our other levels today and the only one with a similar theme and style is this forest, and I don't know why I didn't notice it in the past few months but this is a problem. I skimmed other forest images but didn't zoom in thinking they all looked like that first shot.

So yeah, this is a problem. I'm going to have to redraw these personally, and have an unpleasant conversation.
 
I can make arguments as to how they aren't alike from Absinthe's screenshot, but not those. All I can say is what the fuck.

Here's a screenshot from our last game, which is what I was supplying as an example of how I wanted to do rock textures this time around.

ss_5ff710640aaf76abb8661ca96b91cd08d49a6006.1920x1080.jpg


I always drew rock textures in 2d like this, I wanted our new artist to do the same. SK can't be the only game that does this?

Again, I haven't played SK in a while but I compared it to all of our other levels today and the only one with a similar theme and style is this forest, and I don't know why I didn't notice it in the past few months but this is a problem. I skimmed other forest images but didn't zoom in thinking they all looked like that first shot.

So yeah, this is a problem. I'm going to have to redraw these personally, and have an unpleasant conversation.

I'm glad you can see it now. Like you said earlier, better to hear it now than to have it come back and bite your ass later.

I hope this doesn't shake things up too much for you.
 

Jobbs

Banned
You also got your #1 reason right there why Nintendo wont allow it on their consoles ;)

I'd be more concerned about the presence of the words "cunt" and "fuck" in the script, (among other profanities) but either way I wasn't aware Nintendo blocked M rated games from their system.
 

Jobbs

Banned
After the whole Super Mario 64 "hot tea and scones" hidden minigame with Princess Peach, Nintendo takes adult content very seriously.

There are M rated games on their system right now.

My game has average video game violence, a plant that looks sort of phallic, and a whole bunch of profanity (mainly from one character). Basically Ellie level profanity. The game isn't hateful or mean spirited in tone. It actually has a very hopeful and nice story. I honestly don't see a problem.
 
Any OpenGL cracks here?
Trying to implement asynchronous resource loading, but running into problems with OpenGL Contexts and multithreading :/

Any help would be appreciated :)
 
Any OpenGL cracks here?
Trying to implement asynchronous resource loading, but running into problems with OpenGL Contexts and multithreading :/

Any help would be appreciated :)
This thread is largely not programming related. Good lord do I feel your pain with multithreaded OpenGL programming. OpenGL was not designed with multithreading in mind for sure. There are a few programmers around so if you care to elaborate more in this thread, I'll see if I have any input. Others certainly might. The description as it stands is too vague for me to say anything.

Without knowing what is tripping you up, I fail to see what OpenGL has to do with resource loading. In general for a strat I would have a default asset loaded into memory first for textures, meshes, etc, send off the load request to a worker thread, and have that thread swap the pointers to the loaded items once they're available.

Edit: when I say default assets loaded, I mean that if you want async loading, spawn your objects with either the proper asset if already loaded, or with a default set of assets that are already preloaded whilst adding the load request to a queue. Then you can just make the default assets one of the first things you load during startup.
 
This thread is largely not programming related. Good lord do I feel your pain with multithreaded OpenGL programming. OpenGL was not designed with multithreading in mind for sure. There are a few programmers around so if you care to elaborate more in this thread, I'll see if I have any input. Others certainly might. The description as it stands is too vague for me to say anything.

Well what I'm trying to do is loading in Textures at runtime, meaning decompressing a PNG and then generating mipmaps, binding the texture and setting all the texParameters.

This takes up to a second, depending on the texture of course, so doing it while running the game is a no go, so I'm trying to do this on another Thread, or atleast I'd like to, but you can't make gl* calls on a different context so I'm kinda limited.
 
Well what I'm trying to do is loading in Textures at runtime, meaning decompressing a PNG and then generating mipmaps, binding the texture and setting all the texParameters.

This takes up to a second, depending on the texture of course, so doing it while running the game is a no go, so I'm trying to do this on another Thread, or atleast I'd like to, but you can't make gl* calls on a different context so I'm kinda limited.
Is this with already separating the disk load? Because that is going to be the most expensive operation. I don't know enough about OpenGL (only used OpenGL ES 2.0 a little bit, primarily DX experience) to say for sure but it seems like you would be able to do most of this in a worker thread without worrying about the OpenGL state and just perform the state dependent bits based off of a dirty flag in your texture class in your main OpenGL draw call submission thread.
 

Popstar

Member
Well what I'm trying to do is loading in Textures at runtime, meaning decompressing a PNG and then generating mipmaps, binding the texture and setting all the texParameters.

This takes up to a second, depending on the texture of course, so doing it while running the game is a no go, so I'm trying to do this on another Thread, or atleast I'd like to, but you can't make gl* calls on a different context so I'm kinda limited.
Do all your OpenGL calls from a single thread and save yourself grief. You can still do the file i/o and decompression in a separate thread. Just queue the actual upload of the texture and go through your queue every frame from your main rendering thread.
 
That's basically what I gathered as well, the problem is I don't really know how to generate Mipmaps without GL, but I guess there's a way to do that, so thanks guys! :)

Yeah File I/O takes most of the time, but generating those mipmaps on larger textures can also take up to 40ms, so that's what I'd really like to optimize.
 

Popstar

Member
Generating mipmaps shouldn't take 40ms. What method are you using to make them?

(You're not using gluBuild2DMipmaps are you?)
 
Generating mipmaps shouldn't take 40ms. What method are you using to make them?

(You're not using gluBuild2DMipmaps are you?)

I'm just using glGenerateMipmap(GL_TEXTURE_2D) and I just checked and it's strange, some textures take 0 while some take 16 with my current textures, but nothing in between.
16 would still be a whole frame though, sadly :(

But yeah, 40ms on a 2048x2048 texture, urgh.
 
This is how my penis plant ended up, to anyone who was in my caffiene fueled bizarre 3am stream last night. I started out cranked out of my head, and after an hour I was crashing hard.

So, yea, I did finish the penis after I got up.

CJhW0SlUMAIryyV.png

I like the way you conveniently overlooked mentioning the sperm-plants surrounding it...
 
I brought up some stuff from this thread to my artist and they adamantly denied anything was stolen or edited. I guess I really can't believe it's a coincidence though. I tried to explain that and they quit.

The positive? My studio still owns all the work they produced so far. The negative? Now I'm paranoid that some of the other stuff might be closely emulating something from another game. I spent a large portion of the night and morning so far comparing against Shovel Knight specifically, since that's the game that our forest stage looked most like, and haven't found anything else similar. I'm confident if they were using SK as a "inspiration", that was the only level they did so for.

Bringing me to my post, I want to apologize again to Absinthe. I was focusing on the differences and even though I acknowledged the similarities it took more screenshots for me to realize there was no way that was an accident. I'm working on redrawing some of the tiles and backgrounds for our forest stage and could use some other eyes to help me make sure this stage gets distanced enough. Unfortunately, if you use GunWorld 1 as a reference, I like drawing the insides of walls in the same way old NES RPGs did, by having the inner wall pattern go for a tile or so and go into black. I think it keeps the screen from being too busy. Clearly Yacht Club likes doing the same thing so now I'm paranoid that anything I draw using that style will look too much like Shovel Knight.

My other issue is trying to find a color other than teal for the third background layer. There's only that one teal in the pallette and with this level theme it is just the best combination of colors. Here's some comparisons with some new tiles, clouds, and different colors for the third layer. Input would be massively appreciated.


EDIT: Thinking now maybe it'd be a good idea to change the third BG layer into black, and use that to try and make the forest look deep instead. Here's a shot from the same location as yesterday. Any input on changes?

 

kiguel182

Member
With this semester done I can finally go back to work on my prototype. Feels good.

Alt ought it doesn't compare to anything here I'm excited to finish at least two more levels so I can put here to get some feedback.

It's a kinda of maze/puzzle/reflexes based game that I'm using to focus more on level design compared to my first game.

Anyway, hopefully I'll have a build soon here to test and see if this is fun and how can I improve going forward.

I'll also work on doing a little devblog post detailing the process so far to what I have now.

Not a very substantial upgrade but hey, it's the news I have right now ahah
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Still not quite where we should be; the UI is missing stuff and polish (feedback is still very much appreciated), the online is bugging out at different places with shipping build and stand-alone editor, but here goes anyway:

On the positive side, all the active minion skills and their respective art is just waiting for QA, most of the unlockables / player progression art is done, probably all of the launch spell card textures and effects are done and the desert level is shaping up really nicely.

Haha, actually once the online works we could use some EU - USA connection testing, but that is when the damn thing starts working again...

EDIT: Do'h, actually forgot to have a minion selected to show the command card too...brb
EDIT2: Don't mind the end turn button, that's legacy stuff

Well here's another one, though we really need to take a pass at the visual cues like movement range, side indicator (that's toggleable at least), elder minion particles etc:

Looking great, obviously. What does each box in the UI represent? I will say that you are covering up a ton of your gorgeous, gorgeous real estate with UI elements. I want to see more of the screen and those boxes sort of keep catching my eye, if that makes any sense.
 

_machine

Member
Looking great, obviously. What does each box in the UI represent? I will say that you are covering up a ton of your gorgeous, gorgeous real estate with UI elements. I want to see more of the screen and those boxes sort of keep catching my eye, if that makes any sense.
It's not so obvious to us at times, especially when we keep breaking stuff instead of improving :)

Basically the elements are the hand (the cards in the bottom middle), "mana/turn element" that controls your turn actions, "command card" which is where the character specific information and skill button is visible when you have a character selected, "victory bar" where the player points and game time is visible, "enemy element" which display the information about your opponent". Some of these are still missing some information that requires networking stuff that I can't do, but that's the basic gist of it.

I do agree that they do take quite a bit of screen estate and I think already did a bit of scaling down. I'd love to include an option of user-determined UI scaling, but it will require some time and RND to see if we can pull it off so it's not top priority. Both those screenshots look superbusy though and we do intend to clean it up some more. Glad you like it; I'll try to get some much better shots next week together with some action footage since the game still doesn't function quite as it should, but we have hopefully now debugged the main reasons for it. Wind/Apex clothing seems to have broken with 4.8 too; anything above 0 at wind strength and all of our cloths in the menu start jiggling like crazy.

---

It's been one of those weeks that not many minutes have passed without cursing at UE4. For my part it's been mainly aimed at the changes in UMG scaling that have messed up our text layouts and I still haven't found a reliable way to get text to center/align/scale properly in some elements, and there hasn't been any guides as to the whole ordeal and what the update did in detail. They also added a "Hierarchical Level-Of-Detail System" that combines meshes into drawcall lods automatically, which on paper sounds great, but there is absolutely no documentation and whilst it looks like it helps, the problem is that I have no idea how to approach optimizing it and building the LOD/Lighting combination takes upwards to an hour to do and comparing results is nigh impossible.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom