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[VisceralBowl]

Does anybody have experience with gathering new devs/team members locally? Specifically in areas without a whole lot of people.

Tips appreciated.

 

[OldmanAndroid]

Here's a short video of my game, Checkmate!

The audio gets desynched as it goes, but I spent like two hours trying to fix it and got it as close as I could. :/

I have the game up on FGL.com, a site where you can sell Flash games to sites like Kongregate and Newgrounds, but I'm really nervous about actually putting it up for sale. I'm worried that nobody's going to want to buy it.

Looks pretty good, unique. Hope you get a cheque, mate! Did you ever consider calling it Chesstris (like tetris)?

 

[Nibel]

Here's a short video of my game, Checkmate!

The audio gets desynched as it goes, but I spent like two hours trying to fix it and got it as close as I could. :/

I have the game up on FGL.com, a site where you can sell Flash games to sites like Kongregate and Newgrounds, but I'm really nervous about actually putting it up for sale. I'm worried that nobody's going to want to buy it.

Can't view the video

And don't be scared; if you believe in your project, then others will as well.

 

[alexfont]

GAF indies, I need your help!

My game is in beta stage on both Android and iOS, and I'm looking for some feedback.
My previous post was ignored. I know the game isn't much, but come on people, give a little help here.
You don't even need to test the game. Checking if it's not crashing is good enough. This is important mainly in Android with all those different devices.

This is the game logo. I don't want to post gameplay pictures, or else you will run away from this like the plague.

Those who are interested, please send me a PM with the platform you own and the email (so I can grant the access in google play and in the iOS app store).

Note to Android users: I have already a problem reported about an issue with the game speed being too fast making the game unplayable. This is a bug I haven't yet tracked down.

Note to iOS users: if you want to post scores to the leaderboards you will have to enable the sandbox mode for game center. Settings->Game Center->Developer->Sandbox.

Thanks!!

Simple but yet very addicted game.

Notice that game music still plays if I'm already listening music, on both Android and iOS.
Other than that everything seems to be in-place.

Keep up the great work and let us know the release date.

 

[Jellycrackers]

Hey Indie Dev Gaf!

I'm a music composer and producer and I want to write all original scores for video games. I've seen lots of talent and really cool games being worked on in here and I want to see if any of you indie devs are looking for a composer to work with.

Here's my portfolio website (I DO own my domain name, it just hasn't finished transferring yet)

I'd like to at least talk to a couple of the teams represented here and try to work out a deal.

A little about my music: I write primarily hybrid orchestral/electronic cinematic music. The genres I'm best at are Science Fiction Action/Adventure, horror, or mystery. However I'm diverse, as I write music for a library company that puts music in TV shows ranging from Jersey Shore to Nature Shows.

I hope some of you will listen, think about it, and send me a PM or email so we can get to know each other a little more. Thanks!

 

[Jobbs]

A little about my music: I write primarily hybrid orchestral/electronic cinematic music. The genres I'm best at are Science Fiction Action/Adventure, horror, or mystery. However I'm diverse, as I write music for a library company that puts music in TV shows ranging from Jersey Shore to Nature Shows.

I hope some of you will listen, think about it, and send me a PM or email so we can get to know each other a little more. Thanks!

I am listening. really nice stuff.

do you play any actual instruments and ever use these in your recordings? or is it all electronic?

 

[Jellycrackers]

I am listening. really nice stuff.

do you play any actual instruments and ever use these in your recordings? or is it all electronic?

Thanks! Glad you like it

I play Piano. Some of the tracks feature performances I played myself, but I play them on a midi keyboard straight into the computer.

So I do play, but every sound you've heard on these tracks is either a software synth or a digitally recorded sample of a real instruments performed by midi.

The only exceptions are on the album "Pathways". The track "Outcast" features a live recorded guitar performed by my friend Casey Polk, and the track "Lacrimae" features my sister singing in Latin.

 

[mcteapot]

Dat promo art

This game looks so HYPE!

 

[MagicD]

Hey everyone, even though I've been member on here forever, I don't post very often. That said, I'm super stoked to contribute to this glorious indie thread now that we've 'soft-launched' (in the New Zealand app store) the very first mobile game to come out of our startup studio! The name of the game is "Riff the Robot", and the gameplay is best described as a blend of a ball-bouncing, peg-collecting game crossed with traditional pinball.

http://youtu.be/Mr5FMrWvlUA

To give you guys some insight into the game's creation, here are a few trinkets:
-Made in 1 year by 2.5 guys working out of Starbucks. 1 Programmer (me), 1 Artist/Level Designer, and 1 part time Audio guy.
-Client built with Unity3d. Plugins: NGUI, 2D Toolkit, and Vectrosity
-Server is running on Parse.com
-Prototype took 2 months to "find the fun", but fleshing out the rest of the game took forever!
-Implementing the ability to affect Riff's falling motion by swiping on the screen to fire his side thrusters was an "ah HA!" moment
-Making the marble collection physics feel right took 17 iterations.
-The first "toy" I built was the slingshot, as it was the centerpiece of the whole design
-Mid stream switching from Unity's 3d to 2d physics was hugely painful, but also ultimately the right call as perf improved significantly
-Supporting anonymous, Game Center, and/or Facebook logins is rather complex and absolutely no fun to code up.


And for fun, here's a shot of the early prototype vs the final product:

Prototype:


Final:

 

[Five]

Hey Indie Dev Gaf!

I'm a music composer and producer and I want to write all original scores for video games. I've seen lots of talent and really cool games being worked on in here and I want to see if any of you indie devs are looking for a composer to work with.

I'm very happy with my composer, but I hope you find work because this is really good!

 

[bkw]

Hey everyone, even though I've been member on here forever, I don't post very often. That said, I'm super stoked to contribute to this glorious indie thread now that we've 'soft-launched' (in the New Zealand app store) the very first mobile game to come out of our startup studio! The name of the game is "Riff the Robot", and the gameplay is best described as a blend of a ball-bouncing, peg-collecting game crossed with traditional pinball.

Nice work! Looks like it could be a blast. Really liking the art style. Waiting for it to hit the Canadian app store. =) Thanks for sharing some game creation details as well. That stuff is always interesting to read.

 

[Nibel]

Hey Indie Dev Gaf!

I'm a music composer and producer and I want to write all original scores for video games. I've seen lots of talent and really cool games being worked on in here and I want to see if any of you indie devs are looking for a composer to work with.

Here's my portfolio website (I DO own my domain name, it just hasn't finished transferring yet)

I'd like to at least talk to a couple of the teams represented here and try to work out a deal.

A little about my music: I write primarily hybrid orchestral/electronic cinematic music. The genres I'm best at are Science Fiction Action/Adventure, horror, or mystery. However I'm diverse, as I write music for a library company that puts music in TV shows ranging from Jersey Shore to Nature Shows.

I hope some of you will listen, think about it, and send me a PM or email so we can get to know each other a little more. Thanks!

Man, you are talented as hell.

Edit: Pathways sounds godlike, holy crap.

 

[Jacksinthe]

Slapped an update up - again quote the post to see the link at the bottom.

Changed around a few things based on feedback..

• Must now press against a wall instead of just touch it to wall stick
• Wall dropping now has its own button to ease the wall jump if hitting jump before pressing away
• Melee combat removed entirely, energy cost of abilities adjusted to compensate
• Special attack can be used twice now - only uses half the en cost as before

Again, updated thoughts are appreciated

Link when quoted vvv

 

[Jacksinthe]

Hey Indie Dev Gaf!

I'm a music composer and producer and I want to write all original scores for video games. I've seen lots of talent and really cool games being worked on in here and I want to see if any of you indie devs are looking for a composer to work with.

Here's my portfolio website (I DO own my domain name, it just hasn't finished transferring yet)

I'd like to at least talk to a couple of the teams represented here and try to work out a deal.

A little about my music: I write primarily hybrid orchestral/electronic cinematic music. The genres I'm best at are Science Fiction Action/Adventure, horror, or mystery. However I'm diverse, as I write music for a library company that puts music in TV shows ranging from Jersey Shore to Nature Shows.

I hope some of you will listen, think about it, and send me a PM or email so we can get to know each other a little more. Thanks!

Dude - this is some good stuff going on here. Very good stuff. I loooooove DUNES - I will keep you in mind for future stuff and for friends that need work!

Hey everyone, even though I've been member on here forever, I don't post very often....

Whoa - this looks rad and WELCOME

 

[Blizzard]

Hey everyone, even though I've been member on here forever, I don't post very often. That said, I'm super stoked to contribute to this glorious indie thread now that we've 'soft-launched' (in the New Zealand app store) the very first mobile game to come out of our startup studio! The name of the game is "Riff the Robot", and the gameplay is best described as a blend of a ball-bouncing, peg-collecting game crossed with traditional pinball.

www.youtube.com/embed/NrQsfxD1cAU

To give you guys some insight into the game's creation, here are a few trinkets:
-Made in 1 year by 2.5 guys working out of Starbucks. 1 Programmer (me), 1 Artist/Level Designer, and 1 part time Audio guy.
-Client built with Unity3d. Plugins: NGUI, 2D Toolkit, and Vectrosity
-Server is running on Parse.com
-Prototype took 2 months to "find the fun", but fleshing out the rest of the game took forever!
-Implementing the ability to affect Riff's falling motion by swiping on the screen to fire his side thrusters was an "ah HA!" moment
-Making the marble collection physics feel right took 17 iterations.
-The first "toy" I built was the slingshot, as it was the centerpiece of the whole design
-Mid stream switching from Unity's 3d to 2d physics was hugely painful, but also ultimately the right call as perf improved significantly
-Supporting anonymous, Game Center, and/or Facebook logins is rather complex and absolutely no fun to code up.


And for fun, here's a shot of the early prototype vs the final product:

This fills me with the desire to play Peggle. Was the art style an inspiration? It's so shiny!

 

[MagicD]

Thanks for the complements everyone! I'm very glad to be here...it's been a very long, bumpy road so far...

Yeah, we're big Peggle fans for sure! Also, in my opinion, Cut the Rope still sets the quality bar for polish and visuals, so we took inspiration from there too.

 

[MagicD]

Hey Indie Dev Gaf!

I'm a music composer and producer and I want to write all original scores for video games. I've seen lots of talent and really cool games being worked on in here and I want to see if any of you indie devs are looking for a composer to work with.

Here's my portfolio website (I DO own my domain name, it just hasn't finished transferring yet)

I'd like to at least talk to a couple of the teams represented here and try to work out a deal.

A little about my music: I write primarily hybrid orchestral/electronic cinematic music. The genres I'm best at are Science Fiction Action/Adventure, horror, or mystery. However I'm diverse, as I write music for a library company that puts music in TV shows ranging from Jersey Shore to Nature Shows.

I hope some of you will listen, think about it, and send me a PM or email so we can get to know each other a little more. Thanks!

Wow, every track I've listened to so far, is excellent! Great, great stuff! Anyone looking for a composer needs to have a listen.

 

[Jellycrackers]

I'm very happy with my composer, but I hope you find work because this is really good!

Thanks for the kind words

Man, you are talented as hell.

Edit: Pathways sounds godlike, holy crap.

I'm glad you like it! Also, if you like Pathways, I have Pathways Volume 2 coming out in a few days hopefully

Dude - this is some good stuff going on here. Very good stuff. I loooooove DUNES - I will keep you in mind for future stuff and for friends that need work!

Awesome! I'll always appreciate work of mouth. I'm trying to build up my network and get well known here. Thanks!

Wow, every track I've listened to so far, is excellent! Great, great stuff! Anyone looking for a composer needs to have a listen.

Thank you too! If you know people, send them my portfolio

 

[Kritz]

Slapped an update up - again quote the post to see the link at the bottom.

Changed around a few things based on feedback..

• Must now press against a wall instead of just touch it to wall stick
• Wall dropping now has its own button to ease the wall jump if hitting jump before pressing away
• Melee combat removed entirely, energy cost of abilities adjusted to compensate
• Special attack can be used twice now - only uses half the en cost as before

Again, updated thoughts are appreciated

Link when quoted vvv

- the changes to dash are great. You can really book it now! The tricky part is going to be making levels that work with such a massive movement range.

- I like the new walljumping, it's basically impossible to screw up now, while still staying true to how the controls want you to play it.

- I think I'd like to see some way to climb up ledges instead of having to jump away and then back on, but again, use your own digression for if that'd be an improvement or not.

but yeah for real, game feels good to move about in.

 

[cbox]

Slapped an update up - again quote the post to see the link at the bottom.

Changed around a few things based on feedback..

• Must now press against a wall instead of just touch it to wall stick
• Wall dropping now has its own button to ease the wall jump if hitting jump before pressing away
• Melee combat removed entirely, energy cost of abilities adjusted to compensate
• Special attack can be used twice now - only uses half the en cost as before

Again, updated thoughts are appreciated

Really digging this and I generally don't play platformers. Found my self playing over and over again. It's really nice and fluid and looked great on my monitor. Keep going! I'm with kritz on the jumping after hanging onto a wall. My brain wanted to just jump up straight.

 

[plagiarize]

All in a days work! So I posted the video of the shelf earlier today, but I've finished up a lot more and now have the whole gas station area ready to go. Level 5's environment design is finished (for now) and tomorrow we're on to Level 6. Eight levels left to complete environment design on, so that's a lot of work left, but I'm more than a third of the way done with level design!

I had an estimate on how long the game so far takes, (which should lengthen a bit once there is voice work, which people will hopefully want to listen to) and we're looking at about 45 minutes, or so. I'm really happy with that. I'd love for the finished game to clock in between 2 and 3 hours and be essentially Portal 1 length.

I think I can do it.

I stuck in a tiny bit of sound work into this section, mainly for the video I'm sharing. Just a bit of atmospherics, one line of dialogue and some really lame foley work I did with the recycling... but it's still better than nothing.

First, the video!

You can see the platform section that leads into the convenience store / gas station area. There's a couple of tricky vantablack (IE pitch black) platforms in here. The second one is especially devious. I'm really interested to see how play testers cope with this section. The middle part the low roof prevents you from jumping, so you have to wait for the platform to lower. The platforms up by the roof won't squish you if you hang off the edge of them, but they will push you through them and you'll fall down below.

Once all that platforming is cleared, you can't really hear the dialogue well, because youtube's compression really messes up my audio processing. If you want to hear how it actually sounds, click here.

Anyways... on to the level design work from today.

This is Rowdy's. Rowdy is the name of my cat and he wouldn't get his fat butt out of my face today, so I named this gas station after him.

I made this quick static mesh car. It's a bit fat and boxy, but for something you'll spend a few seconds around I think it'll pass.

Here's the interior of Rowdy's. You can see some cans, bottles, and cereal boxes in here.

This is the devastation the player makes when they fall into the convenience store of Rowdy's gas station through the hidden chute in the ceiling. You can see the freezer / coolers behind the shelves here.

This is Level 5's 'plummet'. It's hidden inside the pillar that holds up the awning above the gas pumps. I added a little musical sting in here.

These more detailed areas take a lot longer than my 'puzzle' sections, but they make me feel like I could use this same art style to do something much more grounded. But right now thoughts of anything other than Primitive are but pipe dreams.

Thanks for watching, reading, listening and continuing to encourage me.

 

[Wreck-It Ralph]

Slapped an update up - again quote the post to see the link at the bottom.

Changed around a few things based on feedback..

• Must now press against a wall instead of just touch it to wall stick
• Wall dropping now has its own button to ease the wall jump if hitting jump before pressing away
• Melee combat removed entirely, energy cost of abilities adjusted to compensate
• Special attack can be used twice now - only uses half the en cost as before

Again, updated thoughts are appreciated

Link when quoted vvv

This is pretty cool. I don't really like the default controls since I prefer moving with the arrow keys, so thanks for providing the option to change them.

Is Unity working well with 2D? I thought it was a 3D only engine. I ask because I'm trying to decide where to move on to after Flash, and I'd like something that works well with 2D. Plus I hear Unity can be ported to consoles fairly easily.

 

[MagicD]

Is Unity working well with 2D? I thought it was a 3D only engine. I ask because I'm trying to decide where to move on to after Flash, and I'd like something that works well with 2D. Plus I hear Unity can be ported to consoles fairly easily.

With the release of unity 4.3 last year, unity now properly supports 2d (both with sprites and optimized 2d physics). Before 4.3 was released, there were user made plugins (e.g. NGUI and 2d toolkit) that allowed Devs to make 2d games, but had a number of workflow quirks. If I was you, I wouldn't hesitate to make a 2d game in modern unity.

 

[plagiarize]

Slapped an update up - again quote the post to see the link at the bottom.

Changed around a few things based on feedback..

• Must now press against a wall instead of just touch it to wall stick
• Wall dropping now has its own button to ease the wall jump if hitting jump before pressing away
• Melee combat removed entirely, energy cost of abilities adjusted to compensate
• Special attack can be used twice now - only uses half the en cost as before

Again, updated thoughts are appreciated

Link when quoted vvv

I really like the super powered up wave beam esque effect on shooting. These tweaked controls were a lot easier for me, so I think they're a big improvement. I'm really looking forwards to see some proper enemies and platforming to get an idea of how these mechanics are going to work in game, but there's definitely potential here.

 

[Jacksinthe]

First:

THANK YOU GUYS FOR THE FEEDBACK HOLY SHIT I'VE HAD SO MUCH PROGRESS!

So how is everyone's performance? Any dips, stutters or anything special? I can't tell if my video card is on the fritz even though its about 2 months old or what. I get some random stuttering here and there but my framerate stays solid in FRAPS, Bandicam and MSI. So it's reading the frames as rock solid but my card might be going bad too soon - the same stuttering watching videos and other things. Anyhow...

New build is up - quote to see.

Changes

• Removed the remove from wall dedicated button
• Fixed some OOPS code in the rain generation that could have potentially led to the bad if it rained long enough

So yeah. Long story short - i generally am against making GOD classes. Too bad, though. I feel it is necessary when needing strict ordering for tight controls and since Unity only allows classes and not individual method custom ordering - I kinda have to.

I rearranged some of the wall stick code to be less instant when you want to remove yourself from the wall. I removed the "predictive" wall-jumping ability which had a few stuck on falling instead of wall bounding when jumping off of a wall. Now the ability to bound or drop from a wall occurs the frame AFTER the stick occurs, not the same frame directly following the stick and not predictive. This failsafes the wall jump enough, IMO. I really disliked needing a second button - it's just my thing (shrug). It is still forgiving to a point. A degree of muscle memory will still serve you best BUT for starters it is much easier to wall jump without falling with a few minutes of practice thanks to a 1 frame delay and removal of my predictive wall jump. I personally feel this is a good blend of failsafe and skill required to master it's efficiency.

WHEW

New build after quote vvv

- the changes to dash are great. You can really book it now! The tricky part is going to be making levels that work with such a massive movement range.

- I like the new walljumping, it's basically impossible to screw up now, while still staying true to how the controls want you to play it.

- I think I'd like to see some way to climb up ledges instead of having to jump away and then back on, but again, use your own digression for if that'd be an improvement or not.

but yeah for real, game feels good to move about in.

Levels will be quite large and have lots of... erm... moving parts. It's always fun playing a level that is defragmenting itself. I had troubles with enemy AI and pathfinding my first run with the File Tree level but I think I can better manage now that I am coding on my own. You'll need the zip plenty

Not sure about the climb. I'm trying to stay true to some of my old faves. Personal preference.

Thank you for the feedback

Really digging this and I generally don't play platformers. Found my self playing over and over again. It's really nice and fluid and looked great on my monitor. Keep going! I'm with kritz on the jumping after hanging onto a wall. My brain wanted to just jump up straight.

Thanks and I am keeping it in mind but I'm not going to lie - a climb up probably won't happen haha. I will be limiting geometry so that it will never be needed unless a player wants to take a shortcut. I'm also considering placing a lock on re-sticking to the same wall so you cannot straight climb a single face - not fully - but prevent the stick from occuring on the same surface at a greater position from your previous stick. I am against invisible walls so I am trying to work mechanics around not needing them.

This is pretty cool. I don't really like the default controls since I prefer moving with the arrow keys, so thanks for providing the option to change them.

Is Unity working well with 2D? I thought it was a 3D only engine. I ask because I'm trying to decide where to move on to after Flash, and I'd like something that works well with 2D. Plus I hear Unity can be ported to consoles fairly easily.

Aye. I prefer the "Arcade" style controls with left hand moves and right hand pushes buttons. All those days playing Gauntlet at the roller rink when I was a kid stuck with me. Just a personal preference.

As MagicD said - Unity has had native 2D functionality since 4.3 last year. I'm pretty sure it's been a year? i think? Not bad. A few quirks here and there that you would expect. Like I can't simply ask the animator what frame of animation is currently playing - i need to reference the renderer to find the sprite name/number. Small things like this but overall it's great. I haven't had a whole lot of 2D issues, rather, just Unity quirks which is par for the course with any off-the-shelf engine. Ups/downs.

I really like the super powered up wave beam esque effect on shooting. These tweaked controls were a lot easier for me, so I think they're a big improvement. I'm really looking forwards to see some proper enemies and platforming to get an idea of how these mechanics are going to work in game, but there's definitely potential here.

I like more or less creating living environments that can change procedurally or with patterns - not everything - but parts of the game will be large and non-linear. A few segments are designed to be completely procedural. Traversal will play a big part and I'd like to make it more involved with combat. Perhaps powerups that not only let you have different shuriken, but different special attacks - however - that would require some forward thinking in terms of level design since it would be a shame to let such speed and movement go to waste without presenting some sort of challenge to the player to weave it in. I prefer my enemies to have AI, from mild to fairly intense. Early on you will be hand-fed the usual dummy fodder but later levels will have nothing but pathfinding wackos intent on smashing you over the head with things. Bosses are all AI based - some bosses will have multiple patterns that are triggered with AI but there will always be a decision made by their controllers before things happen.

Thanks again all! I'm loving the feedback. Maybe in a week or two when I'm satisfied with how he controls I'll put together a proper playground and invite all of GAF to try it for feedback, dunno if that's a good idea but I wouldn't mind at this stage. Just a really small vertical slice of an area that won't be in-game.

 

[plagiarize]

First:

THANK YOU GUYS FOR THE FEEDBACK HOLY SHIT I'VE HAD SO MUCH PROGRESS!

So how is everyone's performance? Any dips, stutters or anything special? I can't tell if my video card is on the fritz even though its about 2 months old or what. I get some random stuttering here and there but my framerate stays solid in FRAPS, Bandicam and MSI. So it's reading the frames as rock solid but my card might be going bad too soon - the same stuttering watching videos and other things. Anyhow...

I was getting a pretty stable 750 fps. Which... you know. It'll *do* I suppose. (My PC is quite beefy).

 

[Kritz]

Not sure about the climb. I'm trying to stay true to some of my old faves. Personal preference.

Yeah, I think sticking to personal vision is important.

I've lost count of how many people want me to add a jump button to CBD... (jump buttons are the worst!)

 

[Blizzard]

Yeah, I think sticking to personal vision is important.

I've lost count of how many people want me to add a jump button to CBD... (jump buttons are the worst!)

I'm trying to stick to some parts of a vision, but I also feel like being user-friendly is very important. Someone else in this thread phrased it as being an advocate for players, perhaps?

I can understand where your players are coming from, since fast-paced games that don't let you jump when you want (Arkham Asylum's lack of a jump button) drive me NUTS. I understand I may not need to jump, but the lack of it can really bother me. Jumping is a very easy to understand, satisfying, instant feedback mechanism for a player.

I think I was okay with the Vanishing of Ethan Carter, oddly enough, perhaps because it wasn't a fast-paced game.

 

[timetokill]

Feep is there a special reaction when you belch into the microphone

Please say yes

 

[Feep]

Feep is there a special reaction when you belch into the microphone

Please say yes

How would I even enter that into the voice recognition system? brbththhbabzzbzzbbhthght?

 

[plagiarize]

I'm trying to stick to some parts of a vision, but I also feel like being user-friendly is very important. Someone else in this thread phrased it as being an advocate for players, perhaps?

I can understand where your players are coming from, since fast-paced games that don't let you jump when you want (Arkham Asylum's lack of a jump button) drive me NUTS. I understand I may not need to jump, but the lack of it can really bother me. Jumping is a very easy to understand, satisfying, instant feedback mechanism for a player.

I think I was okay with the Vanishing of Ethan Carter, oddly enough, perhaps because it wasn't a fast-paced game.

I always want to jump. Even when it's not the most logical thing. I think my favorite 'solution' to that problem was Ghostbusters The Videogame. Even though you're carrying huge amounts of heavy equipment, they still give you a jump button, which... basically you get your feet a few inches off the ground, but your center of mass goes pretty much nowhere. Rather than just being like 'you cannot jump' the game lets you try and shows you why it's basically not going to happen.

I always loved that.

 

[Five]

I remember to this day the first game that I played that didn't have a jump button (Chronicles of Narnia on PS2), and I was so confused.

To this day, it's pretty rare for me to play a game without a jump or hop button. Kart racers have hopping, and even in games that could do without it like GTA and Saint's Row it's still there. I love jumping.

But, like, whatever. I understand how it could detract from some games.

 

[timetokill]

How would I even enter that into the voice recognition system? brbththhbabzzbzzbbhthght?

Maybe more of a long eueueueueuegh sound?

Hey, you're the expert here. Just make it happen. Delay the game if you have to. This is critical! I need my minions to be annoyed.

One of them should also have misophonia and go into rage mode if they hear the player eating or making a lot of lip smacking noises.

Another should be a total dog person that tries to talk to your dog if they hear a dog barking in the background.

Man, I could go on forever. So many fun ideas to break the fourth wall.

 

[_machine]

Uh so this happened after I wanted one of our artists to do a really quick mockup on what kind of props we're adding to the level...

EDIT: Since we're talking about creativity and vision, there's one book that I can heartily recommend to anyone, especially to designer and producers and managers:
Creativity Inc.

 

[Kritz]

I was gonna write a big post about this, but I'll do a smaller* one instead because I'm balls sleepy:

I dislike tradition in games. I don't like doing stuff just because that's how games have always been made. I don't like violence, I don't like failure states, and I really don't like jump buttons. It's not that there's anything inherently wrong with jumping in games. I'm never going to dislike a game that has a jump button, especially not one that's been designed with a jump button as one of its core interactions.

One of my favourite games, Journey, has an excellent jump button. In fact, I would dare say it has one of the best uses of jumping in all of the medium. Here's my quick rundown of the jump in Journey: jumping is mechanically relevant, aside from basic movement, all short-term goals revolve around jumping on things. Jumping is a direct form of progression and a resource, all medium-term goals in Journey revolve around making your jump better. Jumping is narratively relevant, and has its own arc within the story. Journey is the golden standard of a game being about its mechanics. Jumping doesn't just exist for a single reason, jumping is Journey. Jumping is to Journey as stamping passports is to Papers, Please and as walking is to QWOP.

That being said, of course no game needs to go all-in on any one mechanic. The point I was trying to get to though, is that I think it's critically important to think about the types of input you allow in your game. Do they make sense? Do they have a purpose, or are they just there for tradition's sake?

But, as Blizzard mentioned, jumping is one of the more refined, minimalist forms of positive feedback within the entire medium. Press a button, do a hop. Hops are fun. That's pretty much it. I've mentioned the skinner box earlier on this page, and I would argue that jumping in most first person games is 100% a skinner box, and not much else. Press button, get pellet.

Buuuut, in a lot of games it can be a mechanical black sheep. Why can I jump in, I dunno, Payday 2? That's a game about robbing banks and shooting people. You have a bunch of systems that support robbing banks (stealth, unlocking safes, moving around bodies and jewels) and shooting people (you shoot people). Alright, so where does jump come in? You can jump through windows, I guess. The windows that for some reason are at ankle height, that any sane person would just step through. You can hop off some ledges, alright, sure, can kind of use that for sneaking. But that's about it. That game has a jump for no reason other than (1) it makes level design a bit easier, and (2) it's fun to hop. But, really, it's in the game because all games have jump buttons. That's why it's there: it's a default.

So, finally, since I'm so against the jump (I'm not really, but I guess I've gotten this far saying that I am), what do we do to replace the jump in games where it doesn't make sense? Is it a good idea to replace the jump with another skinner boxy button that adds very little, but makes a bit more sense within the scope of your game? Have all the elements of a jump been considered, as to why it's a mechanic people enjoy (it can help game worlds feel less 'static' if the camera's not locked on the Y axis, right)?

Well, people hate headbob. And, besides, headbob isn't even a button press. What about a small hop button? That's pretty funny, and I do like funny things, so that's an acceptable change. Could add headtracking, but that's a bit of a weird one right now.

If we went for skinner box, pressing the jump button could just make the mario coin noise. Coin noises feel good.

I've joked about with this, but I've considered more than once having spacebar in my game be the 'fall over and tumble about' button. It's immediate feedback, it's silly, it's unexpected, it changes your camera's perspective, other players can enjoy it or be annoying with it, it could expand out to surfaces that will knock you over the same way causing you to spill all the stuff you're carrying (and tie into a wet floor system or something?), you could use it to put yourself out if you catch on fire, and it could make a little monkey noise. Monkeys are fun.

You could make it be the 'throw money at people' button from Killing Floor. Throwing money at people is fun.

Hell, it could be the 'slightly bend your knees' button from shovel knight. Do you guys know how often I pressed the down button in shovel knight, just because it made you do a doop? All the time! What a great button! It didn't make sense in the slightest, but at the same time it didn't even need to. Within the context of Shovel Knight, a little doopy dance button made perfect sense! Everyone was dancing in that game! And even that button is kind of harrowing back to Mario where you had a little crouch. Even a game soaked so far into tradition they could have called it Megaman 4 But With Bouncies, there was a little spur of the moment creative decision to map an input in a way that nobody's really thought of.

Anyway, I'll wrap up:

There's nothing inherently wrong with the jump button. I'm not trying to convince anyone that they shouldn't put a jump button in the next game they make, or that the jump button in the next game they play is dumb. Especially not in games where jumping is one of the key elements of a game, such as in STRAFE or Abe Bly's neat lookin' game, or in anyone's game for that matter (It's a different topic, but I think disagreements are fundamental to creativity - if you don't agree with what I've said, great! Means you're thinking of ways I'm wrong, which means you're thinking of ideas! Probably!). But, for realsies, fuck tha status quo, jumping is a suckas game.

*oops

 

[plagiarize]

I was gonna write a big post about this, but I'll do a smaller* one instead because I'm balls sleepy:

Talking of skinner boxes, Ryse doesn't have a jump button, but when you press the counter button outside of doing a counter, Marius bashes his sword and shield together in a really pleasing / macho fashion and I hit that button a lot. Way more than I 'jumped' in Ghostbusters.

Jumping is one of those things, kind of like strafing which we do a lot in games that we only do very rarely in real life. It's absolutely mandatory for Primitive to offer jumping, because its basically a game that is just exploration (no failure states though). The player has very little at their disposal in order to change their perspective and figure out the spaces (that by design don't give you enough visual information by themselves). Jumping isn't just a way of hopping up onto something, or jumping over a hole, it's also a way of changing your perspective vertically.

That said, I don't remember making a decision to include jumping. It is, as you say, a default. I had to map the ability to a button press in the engine, but I didn't have to do anything more than say A=jump.

The games I'm drawing some inspiration from are Portal and The Stanley Parable and that ilk. Mechanically I suppose neither game needs jumping. Portal probably benefits more from it than The Stanley Parable does, where I think jumping is only needed for certain easter eggs. I'm pretty sure you can get most of the endings without ever jumping.

It's weird what is and isn't fun in games. At the end of each level in Primitive, I have the player plummet down a long cylinder that I decorate with some random element of the level they've just played through, because falling and having stuff woosh past you is fun too, even more so in VR.

I've never really thought about why these things are fun though. Fun is a very difficult concept for me to wrap my ahead around, certainly more so now that I'm making a game. My game has a number of parts where you're stumbling around in almost pitch darkness trying to spot a visual clue as to where to go next. Is that fun? Or rewarding?

I honestly don't know. No one has complained about those bits yet, so there's that, but feedback has mostly been from people I know so you do wonder how kind people might be being.

Primitive definitely works better in VR where you can't ever really lose track of your pitch. Playing on a regular screen it's easy to completely lose track of where you're looking and you're just left fumbling around trying to find a visual reference to re anchor yourself.

I worry about that, but the game doesn't really work if I attempt to prevent that from happening. I hope the contrast works. Finding the way out of one of the dark maze sections feels good. Seeing the exit seems to be a moment of triumph for the player. I guess because they've been questioning if they have been progressing or not.

It's all very good food for thought though, so thank you for taking the time to hammer out those thoughts.

Game design is something I've never really picked apart consciously. I've always enjoyed games with commentaries that talk about game design... but Primitive has been very experimental for me. Half the time I have no idea how things are going to compare to the way I imagine them. Sometimes things are much more disorienting than I expected, sometimes much less. Sometimes things are much more difficult. Sometimes things are surprisingly fun (going from a more abstract space into a more recognizable one is *fun* somehow, like the brain is going "I actually know what these things are!").

Prototyping is definitely invaluable. So many more puzzle ideas have made it into the game thanks to how quickly I can prototype something as I'm working.

 

[Blizzard]

I've joked about with this, but I've considered more than once having spacebar in my game be the 'fall over and tumble about' button. It's immediate feedback, it's silly, it's unexpected, it changes your camera's perspective, other players can enjoy it or be annoying with it, it could expand out to surfaces that will knock you over the same way causing you to spill all the stuff you're carrying (and tie into a wet floor system or something?), you could use it to put yourself out if you catch on fire, and it could make a little monkey noise. Monkeys are fun.

*oops

Lots of detail! I have two comments on your post as a whole.

One, you seem very cynical, or perhaps that's just my mental association with anyone who starts talking skinner boxes. Bucking tradition and being a rebel indie developer is great and all...as long as you've thought about WHY tradition was there, and if your alternative is really BETTER. Tradition and the status quo are not inherently bad. Fortunately in your case, it looks like you've thought a lot about it, because sometimes there may be really good reasons why certain things are done. So, good job thinking through it, and maybe it will work out ok for the players.

Two, I've figured out the solution for you: Make spacebar the jump button. You do a little hop, like someone mentioned from Ghostbusters, and it plays a Mario-style jump sound effect, generated by http://www.bfxr.net/, but NOT the actual Mario sound effect to avoid copyright problems.

...but after the little hop finishes, your burger person should fall on their face, scattering anything they were carrying everywhere. And potentially do some of the other stuff you mention.

 

[Jacksinthe]

Posted on GAF: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/strafegame/strafe

That's not me.

Unsure what to do about the name. At the very least their site went up after we started production.

 

[cbox]

Posted on GAF: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/strafegame/strafe

That's not me.

Unsure what to do about the name. At the very least their site went up after we started production.

That's honestly pretty shitty, I don't know what I'd do :|

 

[Blizzard]

Posted on GAF: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/strafegame/strafe

That's not me.

Unsure what to do about the name. At the very least their site went up after we started production.

Did you publicize and put up your website before the Kickstarter went up? If so, just politely contact them with the evidence. They probably didn't know and maybe they can change their name.

A single-word name is really tough because it's almost guaranteed it's been used before. There's already at least one WW2-themed flash game called Strafe for example.

 

[snarge]

Posted on GAF: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/strafegame/strafe

That's not me.

Unsure what to do about the name. At the very least their site went up after we started production.

That sucks, and I've been through the exact same thing with a company before. Despite possibly being able to prove we had the name first, it was just easier to change our game name. Of course, it depends on how attached you are to the name.

 

[Jacksinthe]

I think its probably just easier to change our name and I just saw that WW2 shooter. Damn. Its like when looking for a game I tried all sorts of combinations and even have strafegame.com, which, oddly enough, JUST RENEWED TODAY with Google domains.

12 bucks and a cool name out the window. I'll just wind up calling him JUMP GUY by release.

 

[Blizzard]

I think its probably just easier to change our name and I just saw that WW2 shooter. Damn. Its like when looking for a game I tried all sorts of combinations and even have strafegame.com, which, oddly enough, JUST RENEWED TODAY with Google domains.

12 bucks and a cool name out the window. I'll just wind up calling him JUMP GUY by release.

Trying to find a unique name in modern times is the worst, either for a company or for a game.

And here you go: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/jump-guy/id721410809?mt=8

 

[Jacksinthe]

Trying to find a unique name in modern times is the worst, either for a company or for a game.

And here you go: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/jump-guy/id721410809?mt=8

Wow. I'm a programmer, I can't be expected to get creative with names.

private bool iDontKnowWhatToCallThisButThisSeemsOk = true;

SEE? Ah hell. Back to the drawing board. Zip Guy, Special Attack Guy, Blockman, Stickman.

Sucks since STRAFE stood for Subnetwork Trojan Removal And Framework Encapsulation. I should just make a poll haha. Not like the game is anywhere near release, plenty of time for a name change.

 

[taku]

Sucks since STRAFE stood for Subnetwork Trojan Removal And Framework Encapsulation.

And there you have the name of your game!

 

[plagiarize]

Posted on GAF: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/strafegame/strafe

That's not me.

Unsure what to do about the name. At the very least their site went up after we started production.

I know that feeling man. Originally Primitive was called Volume. Then I found out that's what the 'Thomas Was Alone' guy was calling his next game, and it had a similar art style. So naturally, things had to change.

There's something called 'The Primitive Game' but I'm not really bothered by it.

At the end of the day, it's just a name. I know how attached you get. Volume was a much better name, but Primitive is fine, and if it has to change again, it will. The way your game looks and sounds is your brand, much more so than the name.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

The point I was trying to get to though, is that I think it's critically important to think about the types of input you allow in your game. Do they make sense? Do they have a purpose, or are they just there for tradition's sake?

I was once working on a game that was initially designed as a slow paced tactical powers and cooldowns style systems driven third person shooter, that one of the level designers decided absolutely must have jumping in midway through production and took directly to a producer who agreed, and just for the sake of "jumpings cool though" massively added to the complexity of the project and entirely changed the scope and feel with the end result being the entire thing had to be retooled and was eventually shit canned.

I am 100% on the side of not adding things just for the sake of them being there if there aren't any strong design reasons to do so. I can give a laundry list of post-mortem "here are the problems adding jumping caused" if anyones interested.

 

[Nibel]

Posted on GAF: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/strafegame/strafe

That's not me.

Unsure what to do about the name. At the very least their site went up after we started production.

Welp, this is shitty indeed.

 

[Jacksinthe]

Welp.

My game, STRAFE (!STRAFE!, x_-STRAFE-_x, S.T.R.A.F.E.), was just approved for XBOX ONE.

Oh universe, you juvenile bastard!

WHAT THE FUCK.

Today, right? Man I'm laughing so fucking hard right now. This is bonkers.

 

[Jobbs]

Posted on GAF: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/strafegame/strafe

That's not me.

Unsure what to do about the name. At the very least their site went up after we started production.

I'd call it a coincidence.