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GAF Indie Game Development Thread 2: High Res Work for Low Res Pay
- Thread starter Jacksinthe
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That's interesting to hear because what you see in here is really what you get in the game... I'm not really sure exactly what you'd like me to showcase more prominently. Menus, dialog choices? I feel as those would bog down the rhythm. I'd rather pique the interest, and let the player get the detailed info from the available links if he wants to know more. I would understand your concerns if the mechanics weren't covered in detail elsewhere, but...
Of course, that's in big part because I consider this a thematic trailer (even though it showcases basically all gameplay, apart from when Honey talks), in opposition to a mechanics-focused trailer, which is what I have planned next (and a last for characters). If at this stage you want to learn more about the game, the recommended next step is to check the site, which has all the information that would be *way* too tedious to feature in a single trailer!
Though really, on the site and what you'll see in the mechanic trailer will be very similar to this, albeit on longer time frames to showcase how dialog progression and menu based choices selection affect your performance in the beat'em all segment...
I honestly don't know. Would a first reveal trailer be better off explaining in minute detail the mechanics? I feel the mechanics here are implied to those already familiar with the genres, and for those who are not, it's better to grab curiosity however else, rather than drowning everyone in detail upfront (especially if said detail is available elsewhere). But maybe that's not the right way to go? I'd love to hear arguments to the opposite!
I'd also love to hear from those who played the prototype, see if they feel the trailer showcases their experience or if there's stuff in the game that requires more projection?
But all in all: thanks :-D lots of food for thought!
ken_matthews
Member
I am probably not your target audience because honestly, I didn't even know about the visual novel genre till I started following this thread about a year ago. I am sure fans of the genre get it right away. But for those of us who are unfamiliar with it, but still have open minds and enjoy good stories, you may have to sit us down and explain it to us like we were children. I guess it depends on who you are attempting to attract.
Ha ha, I see :-D well, tough luck, I'm treating you like adults, deal with it!
More seriously, I think I get what you mean, though really, I don't believe vns to be a mechanically intense genre requiring detailed explanation. Much like, say, in an RPG, trailers wouldn't focus on the dialog system, unless said system was especially new and a design focus.
Basically, the way it works is you move through dialog, presented as text boxes, and make occasional choices (menus). Those choices affect where you go/what happens/what you do, but it's all text boxes all the same. As for the beat'em all bits... Think SNES beat'em ups, and you've probably got a pretty close mental image :-D
Did you check the site like I suggested, out of curiosity? If you did, did it answer your questions? (If you're still unclear after seeing the site, that's more of a problem for me to fix ASAP!)
ken_matthews
Member
Yeah, the website is great. After reading the FAQ, I feel I know what to expect
Well done. Looks great!
Theanine3D
Member
Just discovered this JavaScript plug-in for UE4, thought it was neat. If any of you have wanted to try UE4 but were turned off by C++, this might be something for you.
If Blueprint didn't exist, I'd probably use it.
https://github.com/ncsoft/Unreal.js
If Blueprint didn't exist, I'd probably use it.
https://github.com/ncsoft/Unreal.js
How do you find blueprint and UE4 in general? I watched some tutorials, and as someone who already relies on visual scripting in stencyl, it looked appealing.
Theanine3D
Member
I can't compare directly to Stencyl as I haven't used it, but I will say that Blueprint has been amazing for me. I come from an art/design background and the most "complex" programming I've ever done is simple website-related Javascript / PHP stuff. Blueprint has been really intuitive and easy to use.
My entire game is coded using Blueprint - everything from the random level generator, to the UI - and there hasn't really been a moment where I felt I was limited in what I could do with it. It's very tightly integrated into the engine so almost everything you can do in C++ you can do in Blueprint. Nodes are all in easy-to-understand human-readable English, and most nodes have tooltips that explain what the node does more in-depth.
The best aspect of Blueprint is that it makes debugging and bugfixing very easy. If there's a bug in your code, you can visually track down the exact spot in the logic chain where it is occurring. Debugging is one of those headache-inducing reasons I never pursued programming as a career (tracking down bugs in a long wall of text/code made me want to throw my computer out the window, I just don't have the patience for it), but it hasn't been a problem at all for me with UE4 and Blueprint.
As for UE4 in general, it's great. I've made several Oculus demos with it before my current project (Lolly Paw Joe), and the packaging / shipping process was a very smooth experience for all of them. The only complaint I have with the engine is that the editor can be crashy, for no apparent reason much of the time. I do save often, so it hasn't been a major issue, and some or all of the crashing may just be my PC being in dire need of replacement.
Mental Atrophy
Banned
Still in the very early stages of my online RPG manager battle simulator thinger, but the combat scene module has the most critical parts done.
Video: output_014.webm
Video: output_014.webm
Yeah this is good to hear and is in line with some of my research. I understand a fair bit of programming concepts but I don't program per se (the reason I'm like this is because I've really only ever used Stencyl). I definitely plan to look into UE4 next year.
Thank you both :-D
Well, that's it, trailer's now out in the wilds! Serious thanks to all of you here, it feels like I unlocked a new achievement on the Path to GameDev, even if it's "only" a trailer.
Back to the game proper, then!
I attempted to come up with a remedy to this particular problem. I changed the spin graphic to have no shading, then spawned a static shading graphic over top of it so that the shading stays on bottom.
http://www.gfycat.com/TartBabyishGrison
It's not 100% seamless, but I think it is preferable to the original situation.
superNESjoe
Member
GunWorld 2 is getting ready for release early next year on Xbox One and I'm looking to do some guest/crossover NPCs for an arcade in the main hub area.
Anyone interested in doing a cross promotion and having your character be a guest NPC?
Anyone interested in doing a cross promotion and having your character be a guest NPC?
Very interesting... I'm actually doing something similar ! What engine are you using ?
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Everyone keeps saying UE4 Blueprint is easy, but it keeps ruining my day.
Easy and hard are relative for most anything. People also have differing task complexities which might be part of it.
This is a good place to ask. What genre and complexity is your game, if I may ask? Do you have programming experience? Do you want to learn programming, or try to use visual scripting?
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Question about a thing I'm prototyping, should I just ditch the dungeon crawler first person view if, while thematically appropriate (we're spinning the dungeon crawler subgenre), visually it doesn't really mix, and would seem way too busy? I'm trying to be vague because I don't want to give shit away but also do appreciate feedback.
This is 100% the right place to ask. Not only is this thread for hobby dev, a lot of actual GAFDev do post here.
This is 100% the right place to ask. Not only is this thread for hobby dev, a lot of actual GAFDev do post here.
I'd love for the mascot for Billionaire Banshee to be in the game. I can put your lead, or another character in my follow up too, if you like.
superNESjoe
Member
Absolutely, what kind of game are you looking to make? Remember if it's your first game try to keep it simple, it makes it much easier to realistic see it to conclusion and not hit a wall and feel discouraged.
That sounds great! This is the card game that has Octodad in it if I remember correctly, right? If so I think President Eagle (an anthropomorphic Bald Eagle) would be a pretty good fit for that. I'll PM you my email address so we can sort out the details.
I have a couple more NPC slots to fill in the hub town and would love to put other GAFdev characters in there!
Yup, Octodad and Juan from Guacamelee among more are in the game.
Gamemaker people:
I'm scripting the animation part of my character right now, switching between sprites depending on whether the character is moving, jumping, etc. Is it the GM way to just hardcode stuff? sprite index names and image index frames?
I don't want one of my sprites to loop so I'm doing stuff like if sprite_index is that sprite, and image_index is hardcoded last frame number, set image_speed to zero, else, do something else (and remember to set image_speed back to "normal"). Is there a better way to do it?
I get that GM is supposedly easy to learn/use/script in general (and that's one of the main reasons I'm using it), but it's hard to fight OO practices. =)
I'm scripting the animation part of my character right now, switching between sprites depending on whether the character is moving, jumping, etc. Is it the GM way to just hardcode stuff? sprite index names and image index frames?
I don't want one of my sprites to loop so I'm doing stuff like if sprite_index is that sprite, and image_index is hardcoded last frame number, set image_speed to zero, else, do something else (and remember to set image_speed back to "normal"). Is there a better way to do it?
I get that GM is supposedly easy to learn/use/script in general (and that's one of the main reasons I'm using it), but it's hard to fight OO practices. =)
Genre would be ideally an endless JRPG, I only have very basic programming experience (a semester of java programming, combined with 10-20 hours of messing around in programs like rpg maker) but I want to change that. but mostly I want to work on this game because I can't find anything like it to play :/
coolio
I did keep in mind that I should start simple, and thus my ideal was to create a mobile like endless JRPG, but alas... my aspersions are still to make a unique experience and blew it well past simple but I figure I can do the game in stages.
With that in mind a lot of the complexity to the game would merely be different weapons to create and items and what not. Though I suppose I might as well give a basic run down of what I want to do.
So it would be an endless JRPG partially inspired by the disgaea games (those are srpg this would be jrpg)
So the basic game idea is you would create a party of characters and go into the dungeon, collect treasure, fight enemies, and ultimately fight a boss before returning to the base upon completion of the dungeon. There would be a story to go through for the first 100 dungeon floors (each floor would be designed to be beat in 5-10 min so a couple chests, a couple basic enemy encounters and then a boss), but it would continue past that with just events every 500 or so. The main grab for the game would be to continue to get more powerful while working towards filling in compendiums.
There would be multiple character classes to choose from, but the main focus would actually be on the equipment.
ideally there would be multiple types of armor/weapons/items that come in many tiers and rarity. When ever you beat a boss you would get a token, and those tokens could be used to enter an enemy rush mode on an item to level up an item. The item level limit would be based upon rarity, and if you reach the limit you could spend gold to restart at level 1 with the next tier of rarity. I'd also want the items to have a usage exp gauge that unlocks abilities, and at max level you can spend gold to transform it into the next tier resting the usage gauge but not the levels. This is likely hands down going to be the hardest part as I want the items to basically have two different level gauges that control different factors as I want everything you do to be working towards either getting more powerful or getting more items filled out on the compendium.
The randomly generated dungeons could be tricky as well, though logically if this is a pain I could just make a couple hundred small dungeons by hand and randomly choose them.
really the scope of the game can easily change as I get better at creation as I could keep it simple with a single class at first and just have weapons/armor to level up (for starting maybe like 2 weapons and 2 armor and have that be it) and only like 10 dungeon floors and as I get better add more classes more weapons/armor/items. (I bolded this so the base goal wasn't lost in my sea of text >.<)
The ideal form would have multiple classes (some hidden and unlocked via certain goals/quest/progression) that has a level up system that unlocks abilities/passive skills ext and potentially even have a reincarnation system in place similar to disgaea to get even more powerful.
with the weapons/armor and what not while the level up systems are my main goal to hopefully program ultimately I would like to take them even one more step farther and have a system similar to ff7's materia where different equipment have various amounts of slots that would allow me to slot in small trinkets that can level up and add some skills to a character or add passive buffs.
I have current access to a few game engines/art programs
my current plan is to make a PC version but given the concept was originally my design for what mobile game would I like to play, I would like to export to android eventually.
My thoughts were since it's a jrpg at heart that a version of rpg maker would be better (I haven't looked into the newest one but I know it exports to android) but Gamemaker looks like it can do an rpg decently as well.
I suppose my question is what game engine would you guys recommend for a project like this(either one I already have the license for or a different one doesn't matter just figured I would list what I have). I understand that even what I have here will likely be a ton of work and learning no matter what the engine, but I know choosing an engine that fits your ideals helps quite a bit with ease of creation.
hopefully this all makes sense. if not just ask and I will clarify.
Mental Atrophy
Banned
The online RPG manager battle simulator thinger engine. Mine.
For someone who is new to programming, I feel like any sort of JRPG is going to be a TON easier with RPGMaker. Otherwise you will at best be looking for libraries/plugins to do all the map and RPG functionality for you, or slowly learning to create them yourself.
I don't know if RPGMaker supports endless, randomly-generated dungeons though.
Here's something you might want to try: Use the RPGMaker version you already have. Instead of your full idea, try to pick an incredibly tiny idea and see how fast/slow it is to create. For example, make it a weekend challenge to have a character start in a house, be given a backstory by a NPC, travel to a cave, and defeat a boss.
If that's easy, try adding a town into the middle, with a quest or two. etc. That should at least give you an idea of how the tool might work out.
Thanks for the response. I was leaning towards rpgmaker for that exact reason, plus a lot of the art programs I have support that.
as for it not supporting endless, if it doesn't it doesn't, like I said I could just ultimately design a ton of dungeons by hand if need be. Do you know if you can easily move a project from one rpg maker to the next one?
superNESjoe
Member
Zulux your idea is really complex for a first project. An RPG of any kind is usually the key factor in people getting in over their heads when they want to start making games. Everything you said is going to be really difficult to wrap your head around.
I'd suggest starting way, way more simple. If you want to do RPG then start with some basic weekend/week challenges in RPG Maker. Otherwise start in Game Maker learning the basics by remaking classic arcade games.
You'll get there, but honestly for a project like that you are at the very least 6 months away (likely more) of hard work in Game Maker.
I'd suggest starting way, way more simple. If you want to do RPG then start with some basic weekend/week challenges in RPG Maker. Otherwise start in Game Maker learning the basics by remaking classic arcade games.
You'll get there, but honestly for a project like that you are at the very least 6 months away (likely more) of hard work in Game Maker.
Sorry, I don't personally have any knowledge/experience with RPG Maker. Hopefully some other people can also provide input for you though.
So now I'm getting spammed by bloggers and tumbler.. ers? with key requests.
I mean, it doesn't bother me but people should at least try to make a shitty youtube channel if they want free games, having only a blog is kind of lazy.
Anyway, I finally got a new patch for Nomad Fleet, I hope it serves to show my customers that I haven't abandoned the project, I only got slower because having a day job sucks.
Good luck to everyone in the sales!
I mean, it doesn't bother me but people should at least try to make a shitty youtube channel if they want free games, having only a blog is kind of lazy.
Anyway, I finally got a new patch for Nomad Fleet, I hope it serves to show my customers that I haven't abandoned the project, I only got slower because having a day job sucks.
Good luck to everyone in the sales!
superNESjoe
Member
I got bombarded when I released GunWorld on Xbox. Barely any of the people I gave keys to did any coverage at all.
In my case I had good luck with small youtubers only, journalists and big youtubers didn't gave a shit. I'll try again when I leave Early Access but only so I can say that I did try everything because I expect nothing of the media.
Diablohead
Member
this looks a lot nicer to me, thanks for making the change! you could have ignored me and left it alone but you did not.
superNESjoe
Member
That was my strategy too, but I also got a ton of requests. Maybe a couple hundred. I was semi selective in who I gave codes to but still got basically zero coverage. I'm trying to start promoting GunWorld 2 early but don't really know where to start.
Been working on updating the Dire Bat's behaviors. Now they teleport away with a poof if they hit you.
edit: just realized we need a new thread soon!
I love the art in this game, always have.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Been working on updating the Dire Bat's behaviors. Now they teleport away with a poof if they hit you.
edit: just realized we need a new thread soon!
Looks fucking amazing, Ash.
The RNG seems to be the only thing that I'd think you should stay away from as a beginner.
Other than that, I don't see why those other features should be an issue. Just make sure you get a skilled team. I'd think this would be an easy three-person team game to make. And don't be afraid of scaling down. You'll be amazed at how easy it is to come to terms with it.
Been working on updating the Dire Bat's behaviors. Now they teleport away with a poof if they hit you.
edit: just realized we need a new thread soon!
Love the impact reaction
BigWeather
Member
What is that created with, Ash?
Thanks
Because making gifs is so habitual at this point...
This gif in different lighting shows off the shadow layer better.
http://www.gfycat.com/TediousFakeAiredale
I made this gif and noticed how odd it looks when it walks up or down an angle.
http://www.gfycat.com/TatteredHappygoluckyCob
So I allowed it to rotate itself when going over an angled surface:
http://www.gfycat.com/WetAlertCrab
Not perfect... But as long as I'm using totally static traditional 2d animation, there'll never be perfect solutions for stuff like this.
Purple Cheeto
Member
Barf. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should do something.
As someone with nearly a decade of pro programming experience who has been working off and on on his own RPG from scratch for a year or more, my suggestion: do something easier.
For the record though, I am using Cocos2d-X because it uses C++, has LUA bindings, has support for Tiled, and compiles relatively painlessly on Windows, Mac OS and iOS (and supposedly other platforms but I've yet to get a working Android build).
A better, more productive suggestion/idea, build one piece of a JRPG at a time as a working, independent system. Then if you manage to build all the ridiculous shit you need you can combine it. But seriously the only thing I've worked on that was more daunting than an RPG was a sports game (although the sports game I worked on actually shipped).
Clearly what we NEED to do is compile a virtual machine into JS using emscripten, and then run UE4 inside of that.
Purple Cheeto
Member
Clearly what we NEED to do is compile a virtual machine into JS using emscripten, and then run UE4 inside of that.
As Jeff Atwood said, "Anything that can be written in Javascript eventually will be written in Javascript".
Theanine3D
Member
It's an option. Not everyone is a pro C++ programmer.
Argh, the game we revealed around E3 was taking too long, so we've decided to release something small in the meantime to get experience of releasing stuff and to not appear idle and boring.
(It's a narrative-driven trivia game with branching paths, we call it "narratrivia")
We created a website and put the game up in Greenlight (like, half an hour ago), and now we're going to be sending emails to press.
Since some of you know how to do this way better than me... What am I doing wrong? What else should I be doing?
(It's a narrative-driven trivia game with branching paths, we call it "narratrivia")
We created a website and put the game up in Greenlight (like, half an hour ago), and now we're going to be sending emails to press.
Since some of you know how to do this way better than me... What am I doing wrong? What else should I be doing?
I want to say again I appreciate all of the responses not just the ones I am responding to.
I fully understand that an rpg is complicated, something simpler would be better as I will likely run hard into a wall and that the first things I create will be garbage it's just more important to get something made. That being said with my personality it would likely be a lot easier for me to spend 100-200 hours on some thing trivial like making damage numbers display in an rpg then it would be to do something like spend an hour designing a platformer level.
In this case would it still be better for me to try to force myself to do something simpler or should I just let my passion run wild and hope that I can use it to bust the walls that I will no undoubtedly face?
I mean I have played around in rpg maker before and it doesn't seem like a single floor dungeon with basic combat and equipment would take super long to do. I goofed around and had a working convo with someone and a single battle in the past.
Would merely aiming to make a single character, go through a single floor dungeon with like 2 doors and a single enemy be simple enough as a first project or should I still go simpler?
JeffG
Member
Always pick something you have a passion for.
There will be tough days...and if you don't give a shit, its easy to quit.
But I would recommend keeping the scope smaller.
Like this. That is a good idea
Document all the "technical" things that your game needs to do. (Inventory system...combat...dialog...etc etc) Create a Proof of concept that demonstrates all those things
glad to hear that might be simple enough and that I indeed should go with my passion.
as for the technical things, I actually do have a multi page document on how systems would work I wrote up a much shorter version for my post lol (and that is with zero dialog done yet as the story is actually one of the least important things to me for this design) but I likely need to go into more detail, and designing a proof of concept for each thing definitely sounds like a good thing to do. My Document likely needs to be broken up a lot more and maybe made into a few documents to the key components , but that would be down the line after I have a grasp of how to make the engine do what I want and what not.
I'll likely try to at least give the simple design a crack tomorrow night and see how it goes. I'm tired of just sitting around wishing I could make one of my game designs a reality, or wishing I would finish one of my novels and what not. I want to create something and have others be able to get enjoyment out of it as I am not getting any younger.
again I appreciate the responses and will likely continue to ask some general design questions here, but I suppose that for the sake of any rpg maker stuff I should use this thread instead
Love the artstyle. But... did you upload the thumbnails of most of the pictures? (Or probably just Steam being slow)
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