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[Dascu]

Oh, thanks for the heads up, lll look into that. Indie royal is Desura-based, and deals with that version of the game, so its just the groupees greenlight bundle i need to look into.

For what it's worth, the Valve guide also suggests against big sales on your game within the first two months of launch. Though I understand you're going to try to leverage this into Greenlight campaign support, so I don't know.

Personally my opinion is just that, next to the entire debate on bundles devaluating indie games, I don't see that much opportunity for exposure. I look at some of these lesser-known bundles and they just strike me as a list of games I've never heard of before and are probably not even that good since they're already "bundle fodder".

 

[superNESjoe]

So I launched a Kickstarter last year which failed, but we still released the game and have actually just launched it on Steam last week.

We're preparing for a Kickstarter for our second game, and were wondering if anyone here had any tips. Should the fact that we've released a retail game (in spite of a failed Kickstarter) help out our cred here, or is that completely irrelevant?

We had issues last time with press just not wanting to cover Kickstarter games anymore, what marketing/exposure has helped you guys out?

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Personally my opinion is just that, next to the entire debate on bundles devaluating indie games, I don't see that much opportunity for exposure. I look at some of these lesser-known bundles and they just strike me as a list of games I've never heard of before and are probably not even that good since they're already "bundle fodder".

Its sad to say, but these are my feelings too. I get multiple emails daily about new bundles, to the extent I don't even bother clicking to see whats inside them anymore (outside of the Humble bundles, and even they seem to have noticably dropped in quality of offering recenty)

 

[OldmanAndroid]

For what it's worth, the Valve guide also suggests against big sales on your game within the first two months of launch. Though I understand you're going to try to leverage this into Greenlight campaign support, so I don't know.

Personally my opinion is just that, next to the entire debate on bundles devaluating indie games, I don't see that much opportunity for exposure. I look at some of these lesser-known bundles and they just strike me as a list of games I've never heard of before and are probably not even that good since they're already "bundle fodder".

Ok, thanks so much, good to know. I guess just being on steam is like the best exposure you can get.

 

[Dascu]

Ok, thanks so much, good to know. I guess just being on steam is like the best exposure you can get.

Eh! Lower your expectations.

Honestly, it's an uphill battle and I don't think any one way is without its downsides.

With Malebolgia, I am going to try my luck by making a nice pretty trailer, spamming journalists/youtubers/curators and hope they pick it up on their sites.That seems like the best kind of exposure, that gives your product some quality assurance without wasting keys and potential customers on dirt-cheap bundles.

My experience of course is terribly limited, but I do feel that there's one wisdom with game development, marketing and publicity in the light of all the changes to the market on indie games and Greenlight: Nothing has actually changed.

Exposure and development is easier, but it's also easier for everyone else, which consequently kind of cancels out that perceived benefit. You're reaching more consumers and you can put your games on more distribution platforms, but so can everyone else. Instead of not being seen, you're now being drowned out by everyone else who wants to be seen. The net result benefit is minor.

 

[superNESjoe]

Eh! Lower your expectations.

Honestly, it's an uphill battle and I don't think any one way is without its downsides.

With Malebolgia, I am going to try my luck by making a nice pretty trailer, spamming journalists/youtubers/curators and hope they pick it up on their sites.That seems like the best kind of exposure, that gives your product some quality assurance without wasting keys and potential customers on dirt-cheap bundles.

My experience of course is terribly limited, but I do feel that there's one wisdom with game development, marketing and publicity in the light of all the changes to the market on indie games and Greenlight: Nothing has actually changed.

Exposure and development is easier, but it's also easier for everyone else, which consequently kind of cancels out that perceived benefit. You're reaching more consumers and you can put your games on more distribution platforms, but so can everyone else. Instead of not being seen, you're now being drowned out by everyone else who wants to be seen. The net result benefit is minor.

I agree with and share similar experiences with the release of my game.

 

[HellBlazer]

I'd like to ask some advice here. Right now, Malebolgia is in Early Access and it offers about half of the game playable. Would it be a smart idea to make the entire game playable in future updates, or would it be wiser to keep a big portion of content locked until the full store release?

Might as well put the whole game on there, I think. Early Access buyers have already paid for the whole thing and, one would assume, they want to contribute a bit to development, so it seems like a good opportunity to get feedback and bug reports on the entirety of the game.

 

[Blizzard]

I added a pushing feature yesterday. Adding win condition checking and related functionality, plus maybe one enhancement to mouse controls, are my goals for today.

Currently, a unit that is blocked from being pushed takes extra damage (think a metal "CLANG" or "CRUNCH" sound effect). I don't know if I'll keep that, everything may get rebalanced, and so forth, but that's the current setup.

 

[plagiarize]

All together now...

"AAAAAAaaaaannnndddd I'll seeeeeee yoooooouuuuu..."

 

[Ranger X]

I want to ask you guys something.

Knowing you can't pay people, how do you proceed for extra testing, walkthroughs, etc?
I mean, what's your experience with this? If this is indie dev secrets territory, are you willing to PM me?

I am at that point where I need more eyes than mine. Need someone to fuck my game up.
I could release finish it and release it at some point without that step but I am sure there would be fuck ups that are far from my perception of quality you see.

 

[Jacksinthe]

I want to ask you guys something.

Knowing you can't pay people, how do you proceed for extra testing, walkthroughs, etc?
I mean, what's your experience with this? If this is indie dev secrets territory, are you willing to PM me?

I am at that point where I need more eyes than mine. Need someone to fuck my game up.
I could release finish it and release it at some point without that step but I am sure there would be fuck ups that are far from my perception of quality you see.

I asked peeps. Post here. Some contacted me on twitter out of the blue, etc.

 

[Lautaro]

I want to ask you guys something.

Knowing you can't pay people, how do you proceed for extra testing, walkthroughs, etc?
I mean, what's your experience with this? If this is indie dev secrets territory, are you willing to PM me?

I am at that point where I need more eyes than mine. Need someone to fuck my game up.
I could release finish it and release it at some point without that step but I am sure there would be fuck ups that are far from my perception of quality you see.

I released my prototype in IndieDB, Twitter and Reddit (/r/gamedev) and so far people has given me useful feedback.

Hell, some guy took the trouble of making a 30 minute private video showing himself playing my prototype (spoiler: he "wasn't impressed") and watching it was like trying to swallow rocks but at the same time it was pretty useful.

 

[Ranger X]

Hell, some guy took the trouble of making a 30 minute private video showing himself playing my prototype (spoiler: he "wasn't impressed") and watching it was like trying to swallow rocks but at the same time it was pretty useful.

You've got to be kidding me. LOL
What's hard on my side though is to know the right time to come out on all website and stuff. Because I do this in freetime. Can work mad on it during a week. It can happen I don't work on it for 2 weeks. So I kinda want to be further down the read from where the public sees. So I can accelerate or brake, always being surfing before the wave.

 

[plagiarize]

Here's some WIP video of the Twin Peaks reference I'm putting at the end of level 7 of Primitive.

I'm really happy with how well kicking over the can to fill up the circle of rocks with oil turned out. I've already tweaked the floor and curtains since I recorded this (but it's been uploading) to be more accurate.

But anyways. I'm pretty proud of this, so I figured I'd share it.

 

[Ranger X]

Here's some WIP video of the Twin Peaks reference I'm putting at the end of level 7 of Primitive.

I'm really happy with how well kicking over the can to fill up the circle of rocks with oil turned out. I've already tweaked the floor and curtains since I recorded this (but it's been uploading) to be more accurate.

But anyways. I'm pretty proud of this, so I figured I'd share it.

The room after is seizures room though.

 

[Diablohead]

So I launched a Kickstarter last year which failed, but we still released the game and have actually just launched it on Steam last week.

We're preparing for a Kickstarter for our second game, and were wondering if anyone here had any tips. Should the fact that we've released a retail game (in spite of a failed Kickstarter) help out our cred here, or is that completely irrelevant?

We had issues last time with press just not wanting to cover Kickstarter games anymore, what marketing/exposure has helped you guys out?

i'd say don't ask for much, money helps just don't expect 20k + I guess, I see a lot of kickstarters with a team of a few ask for that and fail.

 

[plagiarize]

The room after is seizures room though.

It's been tweaked to have less bright red and wider chevrons on the floor. Though to be honest, quite a lot of the game is seizures

Edit: Right now I'm freaking out because the game crashed and this level seems to be corrupt... eurgh. My back up is from before all this work. I'm seeing what I can recover right now.

Second edit: Aaaaaand we're okay. Thank fuck for that. There's a handy dandy backup folder with archived autosaves. Just had to grab the latest one and rename it. Thank god for that.

Decorating...

 

[Ranger X]

Decorating...

I like it though

 

[charsace]

In Unity what would be the best way to set up a rigidbody character controller with location based damage? Would I have to parent a game object with the main game object? This would kind of be hard to manage.

 

[Jacksinthe]

It's been tweaked to have less bright red and wider chevrons on the floor. Though to be honest, quite a lot of the game is seizures

Edit: Right now I'm freaking out because the game crashed and this level seems to be corrupt... eurgh. My back up is from before all this work. I'm seeing what I can recover right now.

Second edit: Aaaaaand we're okay. Thank fuck for that. There's a handy dandy backup folder with archived autosaves. Just had to grab the latest one and rename it. Thank god for that.



Decorating...

+9001

 

[okiemok]

I want to ask you guys something.

Knowing you can't pay people, how do you proceed for extra testing, walkthroughs, etc?

I am at that point where I need more eyes than mine. Need someone to fuck my game up.

I could release finish it and release it at some point without that step but I am sure there would be fuck ups that are far from my perception of quality you see.

It really kind of depends on how far along you are. If you are alpha, you need a handful of loyal gluttons for punishment. Beta you need several.

For Alpha, you need people you will trust to hit it for you...and hit it again after you change it. Not many, but they need to be on it more than once.

For a beta, I would suggest you call for beta testers and give the game to them. Promise them keys for the final. And run them in groups of 20/per cycle with like a new cycle every 3-4 weeks. This way, it is new to group one - you fix their issues, then the second group gets the "fixed" and finds more issues (group 1 becomes less effective as they know the problems and sub-consciously or not so subconsciously avoid them). But as you move on you pick up some real helpful guys along the way, and some that hardly do anything. Cost of free labor.

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

It's been tweaked to have less bright red and wider chevrons on the floor. Though to be honest, quite a lot of the game is seizures

Edit: Right now I'm freaking out because the game crashed and this level seems to be corrupt... eurgh. My back up is from before all this work. I'm seeing what I can recover right now.

Second edit: Aaaaaand we're okay. Thank fuck for that. There's a handy dandy backup folder with archived autosaves. Just had to grab the latest one and rename it. Thank god for that.



Decorating...

Mmm, that floor and the red walls. Reference to twin peaks?

 

[plagiarize]

+9001

Tweaked the room to make it more accurately sized. Added the table, the globe lamp, and what's probably going to be a placeholder 'statue', although I might leave it. It kind of makes me laugh.

Mmm, that floor and the red walls. Reference to twin peaks?

I'm not sure how well you know the series (or Fire Walk With Me) but yes. The video I linked earlier on the page has another couple of references. Just three small areas at the end of a level, but as a huge fan of the show (going to the Twin Peaks Fest for... uhm, I think the eighth time this summer).

 

[Rubikant]

I want to ask you guys something.

Knowing you can't pay people, how do you proceed for extra testing, walkthroughs, etc?
I mean, what's your experience with this? If this is indie dev secrets territory, are you willing to PM me?

I am at that point where I need more eyes than mine. Need someone to fuck my game up.
I could release finish it and release it at some point without that step but I am sure there would be fuck ups that are far from my perception of quality you see.

The real trick is to get people to pay YOU to beta test your game for you... figure that one out!

I feel a bit guilty about it but that's what ended up working for our game by having a Kickstarter tier that gave beta tester access. I saw quite a few kickstarter games offering beta tester slots as a higher tier so I didn't feel too bad about it... As long as you make it seem like they are getting something special out of it ('sneak peak', exclusive access to a beta tester forum where they can interact directly with you, special credits mention, etc) people seem to think its worth paying for - heck I've contributed to the "beta tester tier" on a few kickstarter games myself!

Still, it certainly is interesting that you can not only get testing for free, but even sometimes get it with the testers paying you, some games even make people "apply" to be an unpaid tester to prove themselves as worthy testers to the dev, like submitting a paragraph of "why I would be a good tester for this game" (I'm also guilty of doing this for another indie game because I just really really wanted to see it succeed), while on the flip side of course large game companies pay out a lot of money for testing. Its a crazy world!

 

[Jacksinthe]

Infinite Cosmos up on Google play. Woot. Amazon appstore should be launching it soon and iOS taking forever to exit review mode.

Exciting.

Also been working on a proper vertical slice for (NAME) with legit art and FX this time. Been keeping it under wraps for the relaunch but I've addressed almost every concern thrown my way and its playing wonderfully. Almost everything has been reworked from the ground up since my last pre-alpha posted here and I'm super happy with how its sitting.

I want to show it so damn bad but I don't want bits and pieces floating around. Hoping to finish at least 4 fully playable levels before the relaunch. Lots of work to do yet but we are moving along nicely. Very happy with how things are moving along.

 

[Blizzard]

The real trick is to get people to pay YOU to beta test your game for you... figure that one out!

I feel a bit guilty about it but that's what ended up working for our game by having a Kickstarter tier that gave beta tester access. I saw quite a few kickstarter games offering beta tester slots as a higher tier so I didn't feel too bad about it... As long as you make it seem like they are getting something special out of it ('sneak peak', exclusive access to a beta tester forum where they can interact directly with you, special credits mention, etc) people seem to think its worth paying for - heck I've contributed to the "beta tester tier" on a few kickstarter games myself!

Still, it certainly is interesting that you can not only get testing for free, but even sometimes get it with the testers paying you, some games even make people "apply" to be an unpaid tester to prove themselves as worthy testers to the dev, like submitting a paragraph of "why I would be a good tester for this game" (I'm also guilty of doing this for another indie game because I just really really wanted to see it succeed), while on the flip side of course large game companies pay out a lot of money for testing. Its a crazy world!

This can also be a common criticism of independently developed games -- charging people to beta test through early access etc., giving such games a bad name as a whole.

So it's POSSIBLE, but try to be nice to your players if you do it.

 

[Ranger X]

I'm shaking before a Kickstarter. I am me, I don't have a team. I do this free time. (imagining myself I have a life lol). I can schedule this game's release precisely. Can't start promising stuff in a Kickstarter. Or am wrong. lol

 

[SeanNoonan]

Feeling like it's time I moved on from supporting Jack B. Nimble to starting my next game. I didn't make a lot of money from it, but enough to cover costs - next game will be basically free to make (excluding the cost of my time)...


Also... pixel daily!

 

[Burt]

Feeling like it's time I moved on from supporting Jack B. Nimble to starting my next game. I didn't make a lot of money from it, but enough to cover costs - next game will be basically free to make (excluding the cost of my time)...


Also... pixel daily!

Cute.

And speaking of daily pixel stuff, I just spent... way, way, way too long trying to figure out how to make and making (one-third of) a 64x64 mountain tileset. Shit is teeeedious. And I know I don't like it and am going to get it replaced at some point, which makes my headache that much worse.

 

[SeanNoonan]

Cute.

And speaking of daily pixel stuff, I just spent... way, way, way too long trying to figure out how to make and making (one-third of) a 64x64 mountain tileset. Shit is teeeedious. And I know I don't like it and am going to get it replaced at some point, which makes my headache that much worse.

Flip it horizontally - that's how I find most of my annoyances.

 

[_machine]

Feeling like it's time I moved on from supporting Jack B. Nimble to starting my next game. I didn't make a lot of money from it, but enough to cover costs - next game will be basically free to make (excluding the cost of my time)...

Are you going to do a detailed postmortem or anything like that?

I would love to hear something like that because I've been contemplating on doing a little solo project after Ancestory is released and there is a bit more spare time. I strive to make the most out of my game projects (release them publicly) so it might be helpful for planning that project so that it can realistically find itself on some store platform.

 

[Burt]

Flip it horizontally - that's how I find most of my annoyances.

Oh yeah, nothing like thinking you have something like a face all sorted out and then you flip it and realize you've drawn Sloth from the Goonies. It isn't so much that sort of stuff for this though, since a mountain range is so asymmetrical by default, it's just a matter of settling on a style of mountain and not drawing it like total crap, which is a matter of iteration as much as anything.

 

[SeanNoonan]

Are you going to do a detailed postmortem or anything like that?

Yeah, I've been meaning to write up my first 30 days actually. The only reason I haven't is because any time writing takes me away from development I'll be sure to post it here when I do though!

I posted a couple of my previous game jam post mortems over at my blog - so I'll probably do something in a similar vein.

 

[octopiggy]

Feeling like it's time I moved on from supporting Jack B. Nimble to starting my next game. I didn't make a lot of money from it, but enough to cover costs - next game will be basically free to make (excluding the cost of my time)...


Also... pixel daily!

I like your pixel art style. Do you have all your dailies in one place to browse through?

edit: nvm. Found it - http://pixeldailies.tumblr.com/

 

[Feep]

One week remains.

COMMENCE THE PRESS TOUR

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

One week remains.

COMMENCE THE PRESS TOUR

Don't forget to send death threats to gabe newell on twitter

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

I'm not sure how well you know the series (or Fire Walk With Me) but yes. The video I linked earlier on the page has another couple of references. Just three small areas at the end of a level, but as a huge fan of the show (going to the Twin Peaks Fest for... uhm, I think the eighth time this summer).

Havent seen the whole series, but know the important aspects of it (maybe I give it a shot soon and start watchig it).
And I love when devs do tributes to their favourite things in their games, so other fans can discover them, I do it a lot also, becuase when Im playing games is something I like so I want to give that kind of discovery and hapinnes I have to the people that play my games.

 

[Jacksinthe]

One week remains.

COMMENCE THE PRESS TOUR

May the Force be with you as it exists in episodes 4-6.

 

[StrangeADT]

Well, the fun part is when you overcome the challenge and gain that insight and awesome feels. There's no better feeling imo. The pain and frustration is just proof you earned it. At this point, I'd lose all self respect if I gave up and migrated to unity or something like that. Not that there's anything wrong with using an external engine, it's just not for me.

Also, while it is a learning experience, the goal is still to make a "proper" game

#2 scares me. I usually do things deliberately sloppily the first time around, counting on something not to work. So if it does work perfectly, I get worried.

You should try making some tests to validate whatever you can. Not always easy with games but still possible for some of the code. I recommend the catch testing framework by Phil Nash.

How I use it is I have my engine code split up until many visual studio projects that create static libraries and then I have a test project for each of these libraries. Whenever I build my solution, I have the project dependencies set up so that it first builds the .lib projects and then the test executable. Then, as a post build step for the test executables I run those tests and if any failures occur then it will fail the build with the error message from the test executable in the build window. I can then double click on any of the error messages (more than one test may fail of course) and it takes me straight to the falling test. It is a lot of work to test, but once you have the tests it allows you to make those sweeping engine changes with much less fear. No, you can't test everything, but you can certainly try to test as much as is reasonable.

Another thing this helps me with is keeping dependencies at bay. My first engine was tangled together and too many things knew about each other, so compilation dependencies got out of hand and thus caused longer build times than really should have been necessary.

 

[akami]

I wanted to share some progress on the game, the area three background.

And the Area three enemies, the slimes.

Regarding the female character, we just wanted to have an extra character as a reward and I thought that a female archer would be cool.

 

[superNESjoe]

i'd say don't ask for much, money helps just don't expect 20k + I guess, I see a lot of kickstarters with a team of a few ask for that and fail.

Yeah, the budget is pretty short that we're seeking. Our Kickstarter goal is going to be $8,000.

 

[SeanNoonan]

I like your pixel art style. Do you have all your dailies in one place to browse through?

edit: nvm. Found it - http://pixeldailies.tumblr.com/

My style still varies quite a bit - I'm pretty new to this, still finding my feet. My stuff can also be found here: http://www.pixeljoint.com/p/49411.htm

 

[Korten]

So I may need a tip from the pixel artist in the thread...

So today I did this in my game:

I think it looks nice. It also helps tell who is talking, since the player can be named anything. Though it will most likely be just for important npc's and not randoms. But I haven't decided. Anyway this made me ponder about my custom characters that I plan on using for the main characters.

So I made this comparison image, which compares the unique hair styles of the player character, with other sprites. Note: Male 2.0 is my attempt at cleaning up the edges of the hair, the reason it's body is different because I'm entertaining the idea of changing your body based on your advanced class.

So I guess I must ask. Do they look bad? The customs that is? Do they look out of place compared to the originals?

 

[_machine]

So I guess I must ask. Do they look bad? The customs that is? Do they look out of place compared to the originals?

I think they fit quite well, especially the male 2.0, but the hair shading does still look a bit different. Not noticeable at first glance, but it's something I'd try to mimic a bit more.

 

[Blizzard]

Sadness and desolation. Unreproducible bugs are not supposed to happen this early in development! I was setting up my game to test something else, and an animation state got stuck for a few seconds.

Sure, the safety code I added a while back detected it, and moved the stuck state machine onwards again, but I have ZERO explanation for how it could have been possible at the moment. All attempts to reproduce it have failed.

 

[Korten]

I think they fit quite well, especially the male 2.0, but the hair shading does still look a bit different. Not noticeable at first glance, but it's something I'd try to mimic a bit more.

Yeah, that's part I've had trouble with. Thus far I've not been good at mimicking the shading style of the original hairs.

 

[Violet_0]

Yeah, that's part I've had trouble with. Thus far I've not been good at mimicking the shading style of the original hairs.

I'm no expert on pixel art, just a few things I notice
- when you compare the red-haired and pink-haired sprites, they have different style for the highlights - the default ones use a few white pixels while the custom examples have sort of a gradient highlight. The shading is also a bit different.
- the default sprites use less saturated colors, the custom ones have very vibrant red hair (nothing wrong with that). They use the same purple color tone for the shadows but it doesn't work as well with the red hair.
- the custom sprites have more stylized hair with geometrical shapes - avoid straight lines if this isn't intended. It sometimes helps to draw the sprite first and then re-create it with pixels

 

[plagiarize]

Why do I find the per polygon collision option NOW after months of making collision meshes?

It's probably for the best though, since the custom collision meshes have let me better massage and tweak things, but... yeah. I wouldn't have bothered with any of that stuff otherwise. It's not a huge deal, but it's just... yeah. Hah.

And, finally Epic released a preview build that doesn't have a show stopper bug. I am officially not updating until the next official release, and never getting involved with preview builds again. It's been a long few weeks waiting for a version that didn't have a major bug (preview 6 had broken physics and sound. preview 7 couldn't cook or cut builds for sharing).

so yeah, when Epic tell you not to use preview builds for development... don't do that. listen to a moron who ignored the advice.

 

[Kitbash]

And the Area three enemies, the slimes.

I like these guys a lot, especially the green one. Probably because the translucent effect is most noticeable on him. Slimes with skeletons are cool!

 

[plagiarize]

Havent seen the whole series, but know the important aspects of it (maybe I give it a shot soon and start watchig it).
And I love when devs do tributes to their favourite things in their games, so other fans can discover them, I do it a lot also, becuase when Im playing games is something I like so I want to give that kind of discovery and hapinnes I have to the people that play my games.

So far my game has nods to Twin Peaks, Silent Hill 3, the UK kids game show Knightmare, and even more obscure seventies BBC gameshow The Adventure Game. The Twin Peaks reference is probably the most overt, but I've got an overt Resident Evil reference penciled in further down the line.

And we haven't even started writing yet. It's definitely a mix of things that influenced me in various ways. I'll probably end up sneaking in some Crystal Maze at some point, just because that whole TV genre seems to lend itself well to a first person puzzle title. I toyed with the idea of putting in something based on Takeshi's Castle, but decided against it when I couldn't think of interesting gameplay for the concept. Heck, arguably, the all black 'portals' seen in Knightmare could be one of the seeds planted in my brain decades ago with this concept.

Hard to say.

But yeah, watch Twin Peaks. It was life changing for me, and I doubt it'll be for you. But it's good TV and it's coming back next year. So it's a great time to watch. It's on Netflix if you don't want to pick up the amazing Blu-Rays.