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GAF Indie Game Development Thread 2: High Res Work for Low Res Pay

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_machine

Member
Nearly two months since the last update, but our new update about being Greenlit and our experiences with Casual Connect and Indie Prize is live on IndieDB

And since Indie Development is about celebrating the little things, we also decided to celebrate the Greenlight with a little cake:
cakeu5uff.jpg
 
Thanks guys. I guess I'll go back to the other plan I have in my brain of looking into doing a kickstarter for a Primtive + version should the game get a good response on PC.

And why free? You have the lack of self confidence reason, namely 'I don't know that I feel that I can make something that justifies being sold', but I like to think the bigger reason is my VR evangelism. I've been riding the current VR train since Carmack demoed Doom 3 at E3. If I can make something fun enough, that's interesting enough in VR then it gives people who buy a Rift more to do and makes that purchase more worthwhile... hopefully.

My goal here is mainly to get as many people to play the game as possible, rather than to make X amount of money. I really like my day job, and I don't know if there will be other projects after this one. I mean, I'm more confident of that now, but making a game was never an ambition before VR and before I got this idea.

The fantasy would be to work with Sony say, to give them something free they could point to as value add for Morpheus. But yeah, I don't have $15,000.
If that is your end goal, you will probably not spend a dime. Maybe on the initial setup, LLC and basics, but you will probably get help. Sony does have a Pub Fund.
 
I've gone straight back to basics, and started re-doing the basic movement system in a new project (temporarily), this time focused entirely on ground movement being driven entirely by root motion, and using the newest version of the sample assets beta third-person character as a base, turns out it got some extra useful functionality, including the ability to adjust the root motion independently from the animations. I've now got the basic movement system working properly, and a double-tap/stick tap system for sprinting, similar to Kid Icarus: Uprising, so I don't need to bother with having sprint as a separate button anymore. Had to adjust the animation speeds for the strafing animations so their root motion was similar no matter which direction you're moving and so it's not really any faster than the regular movement animations, as well. But, right now, the basic movement system is basically Kid Icarus Uprising with slightly more realistic (but faster) movement and a crouch button. I'm pretty happy with it so far. Also, I implemented moving platform support, and a slope limit. There's also a physics bug (apparently hard-coded in Unity's rigidbody component) I noticed where the player can jump a bit higher when in a corner unless the objects they're colliding with are both kinematic rigidbodies, but that's not really that much of a problem when the game involves parkour anyway, the player can't exactly parkour on corners.

Next up, re-implementing the parkour system and shooting. Hopefully, the end result should be cleaner and much more stable, which is fantastic.
 
If that is your end goal, you will probably not spend a dime. Maybe on the initial setup, LLC and basics, but you will probably get help. Sony does have a Pub Fund.

Hopefully if I can get enough interest in the PC version, I can leverage that to talk to someone who can help me make that happen. It's pretty daunting to think about that stuff though.
 

Korten

Banned
Do you guys think the fact that my game, is only 640 x 480 will turn people off? The game is mean't to be played in a window, since when you make it full screen it looks all blurry due to it stretching out.
 
Do you guys think the fact that my game, is only 640 x 480 will turn people off? The game is mean't to be played in a window, since when you make it full screen it looks all blurry due to it stretching out.

It might be worth considering offering more resolutions but all locked at multiples of 640x480 so that the image is always rendered correctly - bear in mind there are people out there with crazy high resolution monitors that probably don't want to play something the size of a postage stamp
 

Korten

Banned
It might be worth considering offering more resolutions but all locked at multiples of 640x480 so that the image is always rendered correctly - bear in mind there are people out there with crazy high resolution monitors that probably don't want to play something the size of a postage stamp

Hm... See, when you increase the resolution in RPG Maker... Yes your getting more resolution but the sprites don't scale. So if you make the game 1920 x 1080, you just see more of the map your on. This will make all of the text in the game very small and the UI (while it won't like bad) will be stretched out. If also have a map that isn't the size of what your screen is, then suddenly you will see the edge of the map and it looks odd.

So the original resolution of 544 x 416

zmob.png


vs 640 x 480.

0mob.png
 
Hm... See, when you increase the resolution in RPG Maker... Yes your getting more resolution but the sprites don't scale.

I'm not super-familiar with RPG maker, but it doesn't have any options to scale the entire screen by multiplying the native resolution rather than 'reframing' it?
 
Thanks guys. I guess I'll go back to the other plan I have in my brain of looking into doing a kickstarter for a Primtive + version should the game get a good response on PC.

And why free? You have the lack of self confidence reason, namely 'I don't know that I feel that I can make something that justifies being sold', but I like to think the bigger reason is my VR evangelism. I've been riding the current VR train since Carmack demoed Doom 3 at E3. If I can make something fun enough, that's interesting enough in VR then it gives people who buy a Rift more to do and makes that purchase more worthwhile... hopefully.

My goal here is mainly to get as many people to play the game as possible, rather than to make X amount of money. I really like my day job, and I don't know if there will be other projects after this one. I mean, I'm more confident of that now, but making a game was never an ambition before VR and before I got this idea.

The fantasy would be to work with Sony say, to give them something free they could point to as value add for Morpheus. But yeah, I don't have $15,000.

I'm already supporting Morpheus with VizionEck, so our incredibly similar art styles might make that a hard sell for you.

If you're just wanting the most people to play it, then have you thought of going the opposite direction and making a mobile port? Plus Samsung has Gear VR which you could support.
 

Korten

Banned
I'm not super-familiar with RPG maker, but it doesn't have any options to scale the entire screen by multiplying the native resolution rather than 'reframing' it?

Sadly no. It's actually built into the system of RPG Maker to only go up to 640 x 480. Anything else requires hacking of the actual engine code which is against the TOS. Though I did find a script just now (literally) that allows for this:

Look at this short album of other types, you can find the default full screen in there as well.
http://imgur.com/a/qFXB4#0

2mob.png


Now whats the difference now? Well this is in a way, playing in window mode, but adding black bars to make it full screen. This is a lot better than the default full screen because it doesn't do that whole thing where it makes your desktop temporarly lower resolution. If you get what I mean..?

Granted, this still makes it still some pixelated when it comes to things like text, but it still looks pretty decent imo.
 
I'm already supporting Morpheus with VizionEck, so our incredibly similar art styles might make that a hard sell for you.

If you're just wanting the most people to play it, then have you thought of going the opposite direction and making a mobile port? Plus Samsung has Gear VR which you could support.

I do have an android build, which I haven't been planning on doing anything with other than using it to demo the game on my tablet, but yeah, it's another valid option. Performance right now isn't anywhere it would needs to be for VR on that version.
 

missile

Member
Greetings again fellow indie gaffers!

I'm looking for thoughts on pixel art games and dealing with modern screens. I've already released a pixel art game on modern systems, Volgarr the Viking, however I've never been sure I handled this issue well, and have been thinking recently about better possible ways to handle it in the future.

The problem with making retro-style games for modern systems is that screens come in many resolutions, and in multiple aspect rations. Back in the day (and currently for handhelds like the 3DS, but only if you aren't going multi-platform), game developers knew exactly how big the screen was going to be, and could actually build gameplay elements around the screen. They would know how far away an enemy would be from the player and still be on screen or not, for example, and could change enemy behavior based on that. Its much harder to do that now, and there's multiple solutions to deal with that problem, and I'm curious what you all think are the best ways to deal with it.

Here's what I did with Volgarr:

* The game can be displayed at whatever resolution you want - in windowed mode on a PC you can literally resize the window to almost any bizarre shape you want, short of very extreme aspect ratios (more than 2:1 ratio).

* Black bars on the sides or top/bottom of the screen are not used, the game fills the full resolution.

* No matter what resolution you use, the size of Volgarr (the character) relative to the size of the screen/window remains consistent - I felt this was important so that players with different resolutions couldn't have a significant advantage over other players just by virtue of being able to see more at once. This does mean, however, that at wider aspect ratios players can see more to the left or right of them, and at more standard aspect ratios, they can see more above and below them instead, so the levels had to be carefully designed checking that players see what they should (and don't see what they shouldn't) at multiple aspect ratios (something, again, the actual original developers of old games in the past didn't have to worry about!).

* To display the original art at the resolution and aspect ratio requested, the art of course has to be stretched (or possibly shrunk, though that was rare as the base art resolution was pretty small). This usually meant an uneven stretch, meaning by default (point filter) the result would have "fat" and "thin" pixels, which many consider to be butchering the original pixel art. To handle this, a bilinear filtering option was added, but that caused the game to look somewhat "blurry" instead. Eventually, I added another filter option that stretches the image by an integer value first, like x2 or x3, and then stretches the result of that pass to the final resolution with bilinear filtering, to reduce the blurriness of straight bilinear but still eliminate the uneven pixel sizes (I got this idea from MAME's source code actually).

So, how do you others working on pixel-art-based games deal with this? Black bars? Only supporting specific resolutions and using even scaling like x2? Advanced stretching filters with shaders? Just let higher resolutions display more at once? And what about different aspect ratios? Or porting to different systems like a 3DS or whatever that doesn't have the same aspect ratio as, say, an XBox One?

I don't see a lot of talk about this so maybe I just completely overlooked the obvious solution, but I spent a huge amount of time trying myself to figure this out and am starting to wonder if there just isn't a good solution and no matter what I do someone is going to complain about how I handled it (people complaining their device can't display the resolution I picked to support, like say a netbook with 1024x600, or people complaining about my stretching method ruining the nice pixel art with blurriness or uneven pixel sizes, or complaining about their resolution makes the art too small or too big if I use a fixed scaling factor, or complaining about black bars instead of using the full screen, etc etc). Yet I've played a fair number of pixel art indie games where I never really noticed any problems with the art being blurry or stretching funny with uneven pixels despite playing on a modern device, so maybe I really am missing the magic bullet trick to this?

I hear you. That's why I work so hard on the Retro Spectral Analyser / RSA.
Images will be pre-filtered -> reconstructed -> resampled -> filtered to best
possible match a given resolution. The hard work is to get the filters right.
I build all the filters myself, from scratch - full frequency approach. So in
the end, after having modeled the filters with the RSA tool, you may end up
with different sets of filter coefficients for each resolution your game may
run on. I also want to support filtering of wrapped pictures, which is hard.
Need them for my CRT simulator. But man, filter design is serious business
'tell ya.
 
Sorry if I've missed the discussion on this one, but I wonder what the sale of GameMaker Studio will lead to for the developers who us it. Seems odd that it's now in the hands of a Casino Company.

GameMaker 2.0 expected to launch later this year

Yesterday online gaming and sports betting software firm PlayTech acquired YoYo Games for £10.65m, a fee which could go up depending on performance. Following the deal, CEO of the GameMaker tools firm Sandy Duncan also departed the firm.

To find out more about the deal, we spoke to a spokesperson at the company on how it will affect the popular tool's future and the developers using it.

http://www.develop-online.net/inter...yoyo-games-and-what-it-means-for-devs/0203243
 
Welp. That took a whopping 48 hours for our app to show up on stores we never submitted it to who are now selling our fucking game.

Amazing.

Fuck mobile.
 
So... I'm going to apply for a UE4 dev grant. Cause why the heck not? Sounds like it could potentially provide those funds for a console version.
 

mStudios

Member
I just wanna say something

Fear:Nostalgia
. An Interactive Visual Novel for WiiU & PC Coming December of this year.
nENcE9u.jpg

A taste of the artstyle
(yup, the neck is too long)
 

GulAtiCa

Member
Finally got done compiling a list of all the words I need translated for when I get my game out in Europe. Seems it's only 1123 words. Much smaller then I originally thought.

If anyone can help me translate it from English to French or English to Italian. Please let me know, or of anyone that can help. :)
 
Welp. That took a whopping 48 hours for our app to show up on stores we never submitted it to who are now selling our fucking game.

Amazing.

Fuck mobile.

What in the hell? That sounds terrible.

Finally got done compiling a list of all the words I need translated for when I get my game out in Europe. Seems it's only 1123 words. Much smaller then I originally thought.

If anyone can help me translate it from English to French or English to Italian. Please let me know, or of anyone that can help. :)

Do you have a castillian spanish version already done? If not, I could help.
 
Is that people downloading your app and submitting it as their own? :/
No. Just a store with our app for sale. I don't personally know how people pull APKs but I have seen it happen plenty of times with mobile games on Android.

scary. kinda glad I'm not doing mobile stuff. sounds so trashy.

I'm assuming this is another reason the market turned to free apps with IAP.

What in the hell? That sounds terrible.

I was expecting it but not that quick. Sucks but there's not much I can do other than ask them to remove it. Most of those websites operate outside of the country so it is basically a lost cause.

Next time if I ever do mobile i go free with ADS or IAP. Which will be never.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Finally got done compiling a list of all the words I need translated for when I get my game out in Europe. Seems it's only 1123 words. Much smaller then I originally thought.

If anyone can help me translate it from English to French or English to Italian. Please let me know, or of anyone that can help. :)
I can help with French.
 

Vark

Member
Working on getting all the temp assets out of the game before Moving forward. Did a little work to stress the materials and make it a little more obvious.

IMG_0626.PNG

IMG_0627.PNG

IMG_0628.PNG

IMG_0630.PNG
 
Thanks duder. All good. I imagine PC piracy will be worse. Nothing you can do about it.

But in the other case, other people are making money on your game, right? Or am I mistaken?

I know PC piracy is inevitable but if it's free that's one thing. Somebody else actually selling their product as their own and making money on my work would make me really unhappy.
 
But in the other case, other people are making money on your game, right? Or am I mistaken?

I know PC piracy is inevitable but if it's free that's one thing. Somebody else actually selling their product as their own and making money on my work would make me really unhappy.
They took it down after I requested it, thankfully. Wife works at a law firm and her boss jumped on a template I can spam sites with when she told him. He's a good dude. Told him I'd buy him lunch and he instead requested an iOS code for the game so I said deal.

I applied yesterday to be a Unity Wii U developer (via https://wiiu-developers.nintendo.com/).

Has anyone gone through this process before? How long should I expect to wait before I hear a reply?
Mine took a few months. MS took a few weeks and Sony was literally 1 week from 1st contact to Title approval. All were good experiences dealing with 3rd party relations, timing aside.
 
They took it down after I requested it, thankfully. Wife works at a law firm and her boss jumped on a template I can spam sites with when she told him. He's a good dude. Told him I'd buy him lunch and he instead requested an iOS code for the game so I said deal.

Glad this worked out, that's not a bad contact to have.
 

Haluko

Member
Nice thread, alot of cool work on here. Here are a few concept art images of the main ship I did for a shump I was trying to make. Of course I lost steam on it. The main idea of the game was you had a directional shield available all the time.

ship1.jpg


1399592769851
 

Burt

Member
Nice thread, alot of cool work on here. Here are a few concept art images of the main ship I did for a shump I was trying to make. Of course I lost steam on it. The main idea of the game was you had a directional shield available all the time.

ship1.jpg


1399592769851

This looks interesting. I'm not really a shmup guy, but I like the unique ship design.

Hot fuck. Sorry to hear.


Aye. Its a huge bonus the dude is cool. Most probably wouldn't get involved.

There should be a nuclear option for app store fraud, like the NCAA 'death penalty'. That'd probably require stricter screening for registration/applying in the first place, but still. Just an incredibly scummy thing for someone to do. Glad you had the resources to deal with it.
 
They took it down after I requested it, thankfully. Wife works at a law firm and her boss jumped on a template I can spam sites with when she told him. He's a good dude. Told him I'd buy him lunch and he instead requested an iOS code for the game so I said deal.

Good to hear, and sounds like a great contact to have.
 

Feep

Banned
There are few things that feel worse than reviewers finding bugs. Oh well...I couldn't have delayed the game any longer...time to fix em!
 

GulAtiCa

Member
I applied yesterday to be a Unity Wii U developer (via https://wiiu-developers.nintendo.com/).

Has anyone gone through this process before? How long should I expect to wait before I hear a reply?

Mine took several months, but I applied at very beginning so they were swamped. It shouldn't be more then a few weeks for you hopefully. Keep an eye on your email, as they will likely email you first making sure your still interested and asking when they can call. Call is just a quick hello/etc, after that your in. :)
 

Xtra Mile

Neo Member
Mine took several months, but I applied at very beginning so they were swamped. It shouldn't be more then a few weeks for you hopefully. Keep an eye on your email, as they will likely email you first making sure your still interested and asking when they can call. Call is just a quick hello/etc, after that your in. :)

Hmm, I never got the call or the email. I applied about six months ago. :(
 
Thanks for the replies guys. Yowwch! several weeks to half a year? Guess I won't expect anything for awhile...

@Xtra Mile, at the half year mark I'd suspect they lost your application or something. Might be worth it to resend your application.
 

2+2=5

The Amiga Brotherhood
Finally got done compiling a list of all the words I need translated for when I get my game out in Europe. Seems it's only 1123 words. Much smaller then I originally thought.

If anyone can help me translate it from English to French or English to Italian. Please let me know, or of anyone that can help. :)

I guess i can help with Italian.
 
There are few things that feel worse than reviewers finding bugs. Oh well...I couldn't have delayed the game any longer...time to fix em!

I only had one tester for GunWorld, big mistake. The game went out with bugs I never expected. Had to do five updates pretty rapidly but it's worked out now.
 
We are on track to announce our game in late April, universe willing. Our timeline revolves around teaser screens leading up to the new reveal and a teaser trailer. We will be trying to build support for a few months before launching an official Kickstarter and Greenlight campaign with a first official gameplay trailer.

Going to try tonhit hard and fast with information to build a big wave before our crowdfunding push. We hope it works out because if not - we are pretty much fucked with finances since we can't afford to launch on consoles otherwise. We are hoping this game being officially approved by MS and Sony has some weight to help push it through.

I know ID is great with retweets but I am unsure how they feel about retweeting crowdfunding tweets. Will have to play it by ear. Sony is an unknown in the retweet area. I am willing to leverage their help on social media if I can without going overboard.
 

GulAtiCa

Member
Hmm, I never got the call or the email. I applied about six months ago. :(

I applied at the beginning of December and still no answer, I thought my game was a good candidate for the console (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=364436409) but doesn´t seem so :(.
Try applying again. Sometimes things get lost. Also, always make sure to check your spam folder. Trust me, they won't really reject anyone. I mean, I never made a game yet when I signed up, and I was accepted.

I guess i can help with Italian.
Thanks! I'll PM you.
 
Yeah, one of my best friends tutors in Spanish and already have her working on it. Thanks for the offer though. :)

Cool!
Be sure you have both spanish, castillian spanish and neutral spanish (that is not really neutral as it uses different south american mannerisms) because its pretty different and one side doesnt usually like the other and viceversa.
Scribblenauts games on PC had a lot of problems with the language only being "neutral" spanish and people of Spain couldn't play the game well.

Of course, it depends if the text you are talking about has charisma in it (like story, character dialogs, etc...) or its only menus.

Working on getting all the temp assets out of the game before Moving forward. Did a little work to stress the materials and make it a little more obvious.

IMG_0626.PNG

IMG_0627.PNG

IMG_0628.PNG

IMG_0630.PNG

Love this artstyle!
 
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