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GAF Indie Game Development Thread 2: High Res Work for Low Res Pay

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J

Jobbs

Banned
liliththepale said:
Matt got some shit when he first posted his aberration screens in here too, but he stuck to his guns. The people who dislike chromatic aberration are very vocal but they're in the minority.
Click to expand...

I don't want to rehash the whole thing, but the amount of shit I got for posting my chromatic aberration -- just thinking it was a cool effect I figured out -- was bordering on bizarre. I was accused of all kinds of treachery. I think we have enough time and distance from the event that we can look back on it for historical purposes as long as we don't rehash the argument. XD

but, yeah, I changed nothing, and no one who has played the game has pointed out or complained about the effect, so I'm not worried. It mainly happens along with some disturbance -- taking damage, being stunned, the screen shaking, etc, and it goes along with sort of the 80s low fi motif of the game.
 
E

EDarkness

Member
Ashodin said:
Would think that the game that employ the technique would sell less as a result. Nope.
Click to expand...

People will play "hit" games regardless of graphical effects or even if they don't play the best. Gameplay does top all. Doesn't mean that lots of people liked the effects. I played some games where the effects make me feel strange looking at them...especially blur. <shrug> Letting people know about it, will hopefully allow them to consider it in the future. Heh, I know I've decided against using it in my game.
 
T

timetokill

Banned
Ashodin said:
Would think that the game that employ the technique would sell less as a result. Nope.
Click to expand...

Not really. I'd imagine a lot of people fall into the following categories:
- Don't like the effect but don't know what it is
- Don't like something about the image but can't pinpoint it
- Don't like it but don't care enough to say anything

Anyway, I'm not saying Jobbs should remove it -- it's his game, after all. But I'm hearing these complaints more often, not less.
 
F

Fushichou187

Member
Jobbs said:
but, yeah, I changed nothing, and no one who has played the game has pointed out or complained about the effect, so I'm not worried. It mainly happens along with some disturbance -- taking damage, being stunned, the screen shaking, etc, and it goes along with sort of the 80s low fi motif of the game.
Click to expand...

Game is gorgeous and was a joy to watch streams of during the Beta.
 
C

cbox

Member
Jobbs said:
I don't want to rehash the whole thing, but the amount of shit I got for posting my chromatic aberration -- just thinking it was a cool effect I figured out -- was bordering on bizarre. I was accused of all kinds of treachery. I think we have enough time and distance from the event that we can look back on it for historical purposes as long as we don't rehash the argument. XD

but, yeah, I changed nothing, and no one who has played the game has pointed out or complained about the effect, so I'm not worried. It mainly happens along with some disturbance -- taking damage, being stunned, the screen shaking, etc, and it goes along with sort of the 80s low fi motif of the game.
Click to expand...

Eh, if we changed our games based on everyone's requests, they'd all be the same. Stick to your guns, ghost song is fucking gorgeous.
 
A

Ashodin

Member
Been working on the chatbox for the story scene, and I just fixed a problem which was making it hard to put in new lines by forcibly editing the script myself (which is a feat for me!)

The result: lovely multi lined text!

Vvkk34d.gif
 
H

Hopeford

Member
Ashodin said:
Been working on the chatbox for the story scene, and I just fixed a problem which was making it hard to put in new lines by forcibly editing the script myself (which is a feat for me!)

The result: lovely multi lined text!

Vvkk34d.gif
Click to expand...

I like the way that looks, that textbox looks really nice.
 
N

Nätso

Member
Jobbs said:
I don't want to rehash the whole thing, but the amount of shit I got for posting my chromatic aberration -- just thinking it was a cool effect I figured out -- was bordering on bizarre. I was accused of all kinds of treachery
.
Click to expand...

In all honesty, I think it makes sense.

I personally don't like the way that it looks, but that's because it makes me uncomfortable. Things are slightly harder to make out, and it feels like something is wrong.

Now, with that said, I do like its addition. That may sound backwards, but players should not enjoy getting hurt in your game. It should be something to avoid.

The chromatic aberration reinforces this. It's more information telling the player that something is not right.

I may not like when my screen flashes red in an FPS, but when that happens, I more easily understand that I'm getting harmed.

Now there may be people who just can't stand the way it looks or become physically uncomfortable when they see it, but that's another issue.

I also can't promise that anything that I've stated is accurate; You probably know better than I do.

I just thought it might help to hear another point of view ^ ^
 
B

Blizzard

Banned
liliththepale said:
Matt got some shit when he first posted his aberration screens in here too, but he stuck to his guns. The people who dislike chromatic aberration are very vocal but they're in the minority.
Click to expand...
I avoid commenting on it in this thread because I don't want to be rude, and I just figure some games aren't aimed at me. I'm not the audience. I don't plan to buy or play games that bother me or are painful to me when I look at them, whether or not I'm a minority.

I don't know if there are other people like me who also don't comment -- it can be tough to determine a general minority or majority from a message board, since I figure if I don't have something nice to say, perhaps I shouldn't say anything sometimes. The result of this can be that 8 people don't say something, and 2 people say something positive...resulting in 100% positive comments. :p

Jobbs' game won't sell better or worse because I personally don't want to play it, so it's certainly their choice on whatever they make.
 
C

Coxy

Member
There's a bunch of links in the OP about making your own music but do you guys have any good suggestions on places to hire someone?
 
L

liliththepale

Banned
Blizzard said:
I avoid commenting on it in this thread because I don't want to be rude, and I just figure some games aren't aimed at me. I'm not the audience. I don't plan to buy or play games that bother me or are painful to me when I look at them, whether or not I'm a minority.

I don't know if there are other people like me who also don't comment -- it can be tough to determine a general minority or majority from a message board, since I figure if I don't have something nice to say, perhaps I shouldn't say anything sometimes. The result of this can be that 8 people don't say something, and 2 people say something positive...resulting in 100% positive comments. :p

Jobbs' game won't sell better or worse because I personally don't want to play it, so it's certainly their choice on whatever they make.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's rude if you frame it properly, as you have here.

3D cinema and VR give me a headache, so I totally sympathize, but I'm not going to ask that others stop enjoying it. I'm grateful that I can continue to enjoy 2D games and cinema, and likewise it probably wouldn't hurt to have a toggle option for chromatic aberration and similar effects; I just get worked up when people clamor that it should be excised whole cloth or is an inherently bad visual effect.

Coxy said:
There's a bunch of links in the OP about making your own music but do you guys have any good suggestions on places to hire someone?
Click to expand...

A couple of musicians have posted throughout the thread. You can try reading through the pages. Sorry I can't be any more specific than that, since I know it's a lot to go through, but I don't remember any of them more specifically.
 
A

anteevy

Member
Just playing around with some CA. What do you think?

rpgca.jpg


j/k but I think I'll add a room with extreme CA to the game just for fellow gaffers. :D
 
J

Jacksinthe

Banned
I use CA strictly for damage. I also use a brightening vignette that looks at the brightest foreground colors and desaturates them, then apply slight blur to edges, then tile the blur in a final pass which looks similar to the quad-halo pattern on the top of this bro's staff:

latest


I keep it subtle, only affects bright colors on screen, at the outer edges and lasts 0.5s before returning to normal.

I also use a bloom for the same duration when picking up a health item but apply it to the entire screen, again only looking at the brightest colors. I was looking to emulate the glow the programs had when drinking from the power stream in the original Tron, although for a much shorter duration.

I also use a pretty much non noticeable grain with Unity's standard plugin. Even with it being largely invisible it helps tone down saturation and gives a more tangible look to sprites. A bit of muting rather than actual "grain".

I don't think there is anything wrong with effects like these, when used sparingly. Some games just do not look right with them, though. Bloodborne's CA just looks like smudge to me while I have found it used perfectly in The Order. Works for some if dialed in right, not for others depending on the aesthetic and how far you turn that dial.

I like it, depending on the game and its use.
 
B

BriareosGAF

Member
Yeah, I work in AAA and lurk in the thread, keep an eye on what folks are working on, get inspired. I do have my own little side engine, of course, but haven't got to the point where there's anything I want to share yet. Some day.
 
J

Jacksinthe

Banned
BriareosGAF said:
Yeah, I work in AAA and lurk in the thread, keep an eye on what folks are working on, get inspired. I do have my own little side engine, of course, but haven't got to the point where there's anything I want to share yet. Some day.
Click to expand...
You mean steal material. We're on to you. You can't hide from us.
 
S

SquirrelWide

Member
Jobbs said:
this is a scanlines effect I was trying (not sure yet if that'll stick around) *and* CA... see if you can spot it http://www.gfycat.com/DeadLongBullmastiff



thank you! :)
Click to expand...

Spotted it on the portal. I did it's placement there. Someone in the CA thread mentioned they'd want to see that as a configurable option. That just seems like a lot more work because then you have to make sure assets look right both w/ and w/o CA. I've done graphics stuff, but no CA. Does that seem right?

Edit: Now seeing it on the whole screen after more than just glancing at it. As a thought, I'd be curious to see what it looks like on only the portal. I'd have to play / stare at it for a bit, but it might be distracting if it's the whole screen. Then again, I could absolutely love it.
 
M

Mr. Luchador

Member
Any good tutorials out there for making a simulator game such as Football Manager, Total Extreme Wrestling, Out of the Park Baseball? I can't wrap my head around how you'd assign the attribute values to different people.
 
H

hobblygobbly

Member
Been trying to get a "pixel art in 3D"/low-res look this morning, the models are normal models. Can't really get what I'm looking for but it's a start I guess, it just begins to look bad from far away so it's not ideal for large open spaces, it can be made to look good I guess as a dungeon crawler with some nice textures/lighting (and using dithering with the lights). The lighting looks out of place and too smooth because I haven't tried dithering yet.

lhF1wbg.png

tMCrIYn.jpg

A5fBHv7.jpg

jZobtp9.jpg

zOeR7k0.jpg

iWu3PFG.jpg
Click to expand...
This is what happens when it's a bit far, further it gets it just becomes a blurred mess and don't really know how to fix that due to the nature of it.
1lFve78.jpg


Just a bit of fun, maybe too much of a novelty than being practical/useful I guess. Kinda looks okay on the robot model at times.
 
S

sharath_kumar

Neo Member
Guys, I would like your feedback for our game in Android play store called Hunter vs Demons: Platforming game [https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...om.HunterArena ]

The game is an infinite running, platforming game, which requires you to shoot arrows to kill demons, free angels and levelling up to become master of your own destiny. Though it includes in-app purchases to quickly level up, it is not necessary to complete the game. Skill is enough.

What do you think about it?

If this is a wrong thread, please let me know. I will delete my post and post it to an appropriate thread.
 
C

Conkersbadfurday

Member
Bit over a month ago, a small publishing company contacted me in regards to the video game I've been working on. We chatted, sent em a demo, and then they went silent for like three weeks. Just got an email that we'll have a yes or no by Monday.

So that's the nerve wracking thing going for me when it comes to game stuff now. I hope they say yes and want to help fund my project, but given how silent they've been...yeah. Hopes ain't high.
 
N

Nätso

Member
hobblygobbly said:
This is what happens when it's a bit far, further it gets it just becomes a blurred mess and don't really know how to fix that due to the nature of it.
1lFve78.jpg
Click to expand...

I kinda like what you're doing here.

It's a little hard to read, but I think that might be because the shadows on the model blend in with the shadows of the background.

Does it look better with a bigger contrast in color?

The glow effect on the model's limbs also muddy things up a bit.

Conkersbadfurday said:
Bit over a month ago, a small publishing company contacted me in regards to the video game I've been working on. We chatted, sent em a demo, and then they went silent for like three weeks. Just got an email that we'll have a yes or no by Monday.

So that's the nerve wracking thing going for me when it comes to game stuff now. I hope they say yes and want to help fund my project, but given how silent they've been...yeah. Hopes ain't high.
Click to expand...

You will still have your talent and you will still have your game, even if they say 'no'.

Try not to stress out too much! I know that sounds ridiculous (esp. with money involved!), but if they say 'no', it might be discouraging, but it doesn't mean that your game is bad.

Either way, I sincerely wish you the best!
 
L

liliththepale

Banned
Does anyone have any tips for "desynchronizing" enemies? I don't know if that's the right word for it, but what I'm talking about is when you attack a group of identical enemies at the same time so they all play the exact same hit stun or death animation together. No matter how good the animation, it ends up looking super artificial, so I'm looking for ways to break up that parallel movement.

Right now I'm thinking the best bet is two or three alt animations and a little artificial distribution to ensure two mobs adjacent to each other don't cue the same anim, but that adds lots of work for the animator which I figure is why most games don't go the trouble, so I'm wondering if maybe a different solution is available?
 
J

Jobbs

Banned
liliththepale said:
Does anyone have any tips for "desynchronizing" enemies? I don't know if that's the right word for it, but what I'm talking about is when you attack a group of identical enemies at the same time so they all play the exact same hit stun or death animation together. No matter how good the animation, it ends up looking super artificial, so I'm looking for ways to break up that parallel movement.

Right now I'm thinking the best bet is two or three alt animations and a little artificial distribution to ensure two mobs adjacent to each other don't cue the same anim, but that adds lots of work for the animator which I figure is why most games don't go the trouble, so I'm wondering if maybe a different solution is available?
Click to expand...

random numbers. in my "AI" cycles I frequently use random dice rolls to decide durations of things or what action to take. http://www.gfycat.com/OpenUnlinedCarp so for example they don't always perform ground stomp if you're close to them, but they have a high chance to. and when they do it, they don't stomp 5 times, they stomp 3 to 7 times, etc. each time the "AI cycle" starts, it runs through a list of conditions and factors and some of those determine a hard course of action, others simply decide what the chance of various actions are.

in the case of all enemies taking damage from your attack at once and playing the flinch animation at once, that's pretty hard to avoid, and if you look at lots of professional games it's the same deal. castlevania, beatemups, etc.

in the case of death animation, I tend to have random elements (debris/gibs that spawn and move with random ranges) to help break up the synchronicity. I really like the fallout 3 method of exploding enemies - replacing the whole enemy's body with gibs lined up to where the body is and then sending them in various directions.
 
E

EDarkness

Member
Been fooling around with one of the new small zones and while my wife was screwing around in one of the test areas I happened upon this view. I liked it so I made a GIF.

Skullforge_water_3.gif
 
R

Roubjon

Member
Do any of you guys do your game dev work on a laptop? My poor laptop is dying and I need a new one, so I'm trying to figure out which one I should purchase. I really have no idea and could use some help!
 
L

liliththepale

Banned
Jobbs said:
random numbers. in my "AI" cycles I frequently use random dice rolls to decide durations of things or what action to take. http://www.gfycat.com/OpenUnlinedCarp so for example they don't always perform ground stomp if you're close to them, but they have a high chance to. and when they do it, they don't stomp 5 times, they stomp 3 to 7 times, etc. each time the "AI cycle" starts, it runs through a list of conditions and factors and some of those determine a hard course of action, others simply decide what the chance of various actions are.

in the case of all enemies taking damage from your attack at once and playing the flinch animation at once, that's pretty hard to avoid, and if you look at lots of professional games it's the same deal. castlevania, beatemups, etc.

in the case of death animation, I tend to have random elements (debris/gibs that spawn and move with random ranges) to help break up the synchronicity. I really like the fallout 3 method of exploding enemies - replacing the whole enemy's body with gibs lined up to where the body is and then sending them in various directions.
Click to expand...

Yeah, exploding bits definitely can help with the death event. I love having lots of debris lying around the floor after an encounter. It's not a catch-all, but a good place to start.

Mostly though I'm caught up on the flinch animation. It's something I'll have to solve or ignore in the next month or two. But I've been noticing it more and more in games as graphics get better, it's more obvious and more out of place when two creatures are completely synchronized. Playing Bloodborne last night is part of what triggered me asking about it.

Roubjon said:
Do any of you guys do your game dev work on a laptop? My poor laptop is dying and I need a new one, so I'm trying to figure out which one I should purchase. I really have no idea and could use some help!
Click to expand...

I do but I don't really recommend it. I'm not actually mobile enough to truly warrant it. In any case, you really just want a solid gaming computer, and there are already a few threads on this forum for people who are looking to get one.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=745783
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=944920
 
J

Jobbs

Banned
liliththepale said:
Mostly though I'm caught up on the flinch animation.
Click to expand...

show me an example of the perceived problem and I'll tell you.

making alternate flinch animations is one thing, aside from that maybe you could randomize the animation speed or add a tiny random delay before the animation plays and see how that looks.

You could make the first frame of the flinch animation hold for a random amount of time before the rest of the animation plays. That might work. That said, without seeing it I'm kinda flying blind.
 
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