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GAF Indie Game Development Thread 2: High Res Work for Low Res Pay
- Thread starter Jacksinthe
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Cancel and leave the adress there?
I doubt Google will do anything about it. There isn't a way they can verify anything either way.
Whitebison
Member
I still can't decide between Unity or Gamemaker for a 2D pixel art action-rpg...
Recently posted the first Devlog for my new game over at TIGSource.
http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=47258.0
Some GIFs:
The game's called Ice Caves of Europa. I'm using Unity 5.
http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=47258.0
Some GIFs:
The game's called Ice Caves of Europa. I'm using Unity 5.
Mr. Luchador
Member
Both are free to try, so why not try them both and see which one you feel more comfortable with.
---
I'm sort of wondering how well Unity would handle a Football Manager-esque Management/Simulator game. GameMaker seems decent for it, but I've never seen anything attempted in Unity like it.
Jacksinthe
Banned
"Handle" depends entirely how you code it and Unity is a lot more flexible with C# than GM is with GML.
Unity is far more robust in tools, power and scalability than GM and can serve far more purposes. I am fairly confident most who roll 2D are moving away from GM to Unity and those who roll 3D are slowly edging towards UE4 - from basic musings of indie devs on "the streets".
After my project is done I plan to make a concerted effort to learn Unity and C#. It's a bit scary, I don't see myself as much of a programmer, but I never thought I'd be able to achieve everything I have so far so I suppose anything is possible if the desire is there.
Mr. Luchador
Member
I did a bit of reading around after I posted this, and it seems from a memory point of view Unity would be better as GM can be a bit greedy with file sizes and consumption. I think Unity handles SQL/Database calling better too, but can't confirm if this is true. I know you have to download an extension and .dll for GameMaker to be able to do this.
Some GIFs:
The game's called Ice Caves of Europa. I'm using Unity 5.
Just wanted to give some positive feedback based on those GIFs.
What is the main gameplay element? mastering the controls?
Oppo
Member
Jacksinthe
Banned
You can do it. Game logic is the hardest part. Coding is a mere pittance in that pot.
I believe so as well. I haven't personally compared the two, though.
Brother Ashodin is using Unity and PlayMaker for (FFS HURRY UP SO I CAN PLAY IT FFFFFUUUUUUU) Apexicon.
timetokill
Banned
Looks awesome. Love that water reaction.
What's the question homie?
Oppo
Member
Ok, so here's what I'm trying to do:
This is a quadrant of the interface screen. It's a space game, so this is dealing with power management to various systems. There's a Master Pool of energy at the bottom, up to 30 points for now. And then up to 8 subsystems, the first four of which (left side) are on every ship, and the other 4 being systems you can add later. (Ignore the visual state of the circles/count at bottom; they would normally show what's "left" to assign out of the pool. Also not totally sure how I should do this contruct, maybe just 30 separate buttons or something. It's a slider right now but the player won't actually need that functionality in the end, just on subsystems.) Closest game analog to how this works is probably FTL.
So right now I'm using various FSM states and a PowerManager GameObject with it's own (complex) FSM on there. I am messaging changes between sliders; the slider itself is a PreFab and then I alter instances of that.
So I have most of this working, but I'm having a little trouble with a few aspects. I'm not quite sure how to do the differential math on the sliders (Every Frame) state to update multiple things simultaneously (I have it close, though; the system power and an individual subsystem slider do track properly right now). I am using Unity 4.6+ uGUI components with the PlayMaker proxy attached where appropriate.
So what I'm trying to figure out is – there are of course many ways to do this, but I want to do it the right way. I am trying to keep individual FSMs on PreFabs like subsystem sliders as simple as possible, passing everything to go_EnergyManager to update. I'm also not sure how to limit the addition of energy to a subsystem based on the Master. I assume I'll have to basically do a check if MasterEnergy is greater than 0 to perform the action.
ThePhotoshop
Member
That's me. And thank you for posting it!
Yeah I would setup the energy meter as the master check, making the other FSMs "look" at the variable of "energy" it has and making sure that it is >0. If it is, then the Slider should be allowed to move, otherwise, make an event that if the player tries to move the slider, it returns it to the original spot being moved from and implement a message saying "no energy left".
If you're using buttons to click, just have the buttons update the energy level when clicked on individually. I'm thinking you could possibly work it so each whole system distribution is one huge button, then segment each "clickspot" is a separate invisible Label or something that when clicked on, changes the state of the button as a whole, possibly reducing draw count (having lots of little buttons).
Up to you really.
If you're using buttons to click, just have the buttons update the energy level when clicked on individually. I'm thinking you could possibly work it so each whole system distribution is one huge button, then segment each "clickspot" is a separate invisible Label or something that when clicked on, changes the state of the button as a whole, possibly reducing draw count (having lots of little buttons).
Up to you really.
I was looking at my unlisted videos (of which there are quite a few) and I can't remember if I ever showed you guys this or not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byOGmCvfFkI
This video demonstrates some of the trickier enemies in the depths of the "bug tunnels", a largely optional type of area in the game that is intended to be difficult. These enemies actually have a few additional moves (including kind of a "frenzy" mode) that they didn't get a chance to do in this video.
I made the placeholder sounds myself, intending to demonstrate the kind of unnatural "howling" I wanted them to do, which isn't the type of sound you'd normally expect from a crustacean looking thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byOGmCvfFkI
This video demonstrates some of the trickier enemies in the depths of the "bug tunnels", a largely optional type of area in the game that is intended to be difficult. These enemies actually have a few additional moves (including kind of a "frenzy" mode) that they didn't get a chance to do in this video.
I made the placeholder sounds myself, intending to demonstrate the kind of unnatural "howling" I wanted them to do, which isn't the type of sound you'd normally expect from a crustacean looking thing.
GAH YOU'RE MAKING ME WANT TO PLAY IT
Hopefully I'll have something substantial to show IndieGAF soon. My mediocrity will be known to all
Hopefully the theme posts haven't annoyed anyone this week. Final round of Ludum Dare voting:
I'm just happy that "Companion" and "An Unconventional Weapon" did so well on their respective days. I don't feel like the themes I vote for often end up near the top like that. There are a few themes I wouldn't mind from the final day, so it'd be really neat if one of them made it.
I'm just happy that "Companion" and "An Unconventional Weapon" did so well on their respective days. I don't feel like the themes I vote for often end up near the top like that. There are a few themes I wouldn't mind from the final day, so it'd be really neat if one of them made it.
HellBlazer
Member
Not super inspired for Ludum Dare but I'll try to come up with something...
Thanks, yes mastering flying well is the main focus, although exploration and careful observation are key in the single-player story missions too. There will also be timetrial levels where you just have to go as fast as possible to set a high score on the leaderboard.
I've spent a bit of time this evening teaching myself how to use Sonar X3 again to hopefully save a little time for the jam. I have bad memories of wasting a bunch of time trying to figure out simple things like "How do I do an automation volume fade at the end of a track", which is really simple when things work properly.
One neat discovery: When I record a MIDI sample, it shows up on a timeline, and it has the little notes, and that's great. But what if I want to create a MIDI file from it? Do I have to save the whole project? I don't see any simple right click menu option to export that data by itself. I'm doomed!
...but then I did some searching on the internet and found out that if you drag and drop the block of MIDI data into Windows explorer, it automatically creates a new MIDI file containing that data. Magic! This allowed me to immediately load the new MIDI file into Z3TA+2 to act as a synth pattern, which is what I wanted to do in the first place.
Also, if you want to quickly create more rows for the step sequencer, hold down the INSERT key on the keyboard. Otherwise it takes forever. You can also hold DELETE to delete a bunch of rows.
One neat discovery: When I record a MIDI sample, it shows up on a timeline, and it has the little notes, and that's great. But what if I want to create a MIDI file from it? Do I have to save the whole project? I don't see any simple right click menu option to export that data by itself. I'm doomed!
...but then I did some searching on the internet and found out that if you drag and drop the block of MIDI data into Windows explorer, it automatically creates a new MIDI file containing that data. Magic! This allowed me to immediately load the new MIDI file into Z3TA+2 to act as a synth pattern, which is what I wanted to do in the first place.
Also, if you want to quickly create more rows for the step sequencer, hold down the INSERT key on the keyboard. Otherwise it takes forever. You can also hold DELETE to delete a bunch of rows.
Oppo
Member
thanks man. I got a pretty good answer on the PM forum as well if you're interested.
http://hutonggames.com/playmakerforum/index.php?topic=10113.0
I was trying to avoid having a 'snap back' behaviour when the user over spends energy on a subsystem mid-action. I thought that would be an annoying UX but perhaps it's not so bad if I play a nasty sound effect or something.
hobblygobbly
Member
To the 3D modellers, I have a question. Say I need to fill a face, do I need to select all vertices for the face or just the amount that will allow me to fill the face? I'm a programmer and really never done any 3D modelling before (I'm trying to learn, it's quite fun so far)
To demonstrate this rectangle:
Should I just select these four corners?
Or should I select all of them like this by using loop select (or manually since there's so few or whatever)
To demonstrate this rectangle:
Should I just select these four corners?
Or should I select all of them like this by using loop select (or manually since there's so few or whatever)
That's blender right? You should select each group of four verts and fill them to create a face. Now I don't remember if selecting all six verts will create 3 faces or just one big face (which is not good IIRC). If you only join the four verts like in the first pic you'll end up with a face that's separated from the four inner verts, an it'll mess up the shading.To the 3D modellers, I have a question. Say I need to fill a face, do I need to select all vertices for the face or just the amount that will allow me to fill the face? I'm a programmer and really never done any 3D modelling before (I'm trying to learn, it's quite fun so far)
To demonstrate this rectangle:
Should I just select these four corners?
Or should I select all of them like this such as loop select?
Edit: You can use Bridge Edge Loops (Ctrl+E) to easily join them and have three faces in one move
hobblygobbly
Member
Great this makes sense and yep it's blender. Yeah it does make one big face by selecting all six.
Didn't know of bridge edge loops, it's much more useful for what I'm trying to do now - thanks. So many tools in these 3D modelling programs it's difficult to get to know all of them. Takes time/practice to explore everything I guess. With the bridge edge loops I got what I want easily:
Great this makes sense and yep it's blender. Yeah it does make one big face by selecting all six.
Didn't know of bridge edge loops, it's much more useful for what I'm trying to do now - thanks. So many tools in these 3D modelling programs it's difficult to get to know all of them. Takes time/practice to explore everything I guess. With the bridge edge loops I got what I want easily:
You're welcome.
Bridge Edge Loops will be your best friend when you'll use the subdivision surface modifier and you'll want to remove extra faces that don't add much detail.
SeanNoonan
Member
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Blender is amazingly powerful, and an absolute bastard to learn, because almost everything is hidden away, and its bowing under the weight of its own legacy.
For example, this seemingly calm, well thought out, rational and sympathetic video by a well known Blender user created an absolute shitstorm amongst current users, many of whose arguments basically boiled down to "I had to learn Blenders uniquely bastard-hard ways of doing things, and I don't want anyone else having an easier time" which is absolutely mental.
AlejandroDaJ
Neo Member
Do you guys have any advice on how you go about finding beta-testers? I've started testing simultaneous iOS/Android/PC/Mac/Linux builds and my circle of friends seems to be tapped out.
Candescence
Member
Turns out that particular proposal had several problems, despite its good intentions, and lacked flexibility. And basically, despite the 2.5 improvements, Blender still feels like its interface is a huge hurdle to overcome for new users, but existing community also seems to be actively hostile to the prospect of further ease of use improvements.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Yeah, there's no magic bullet, but the debate over something like making Blender work correctly if you wanted to set left click to be select an item like every other application on the planet does is like a freaking jihad amongst large and vocal portions of the userbase.
It's really a shame, because frankly, outside of the UI Blender is a poster child for FOSS applications
I really like Blender, and after almost an year of using I'm pretty decent too. But I'm thinking about switching to Maya/3DSMax because some things seem to be better organized/more streamlined.
I haven't done it yet only because I know lots of shortcuts in Blender already. lol
I haven't done it yet only because I know lots of shortcuts in Blender already. lol
The price can't be beat though.
What about Maya LT or Modo? Imho Maya/3DS Max are just way too expensive and they are subscription only starting this year :s.
I get a three years license for free as a student. Might as well use it.
I get a three years license for free as a student. Might as well use them.
Sure for learning thats okay, but thats about it ^^.
That was intense.
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Those of you making a Metroidvania or Zelda-like game: what's your approach to determine in which order the player will find the upgrades/weapons/items that'll lead him to overcome all the previous obstacles? Do you sort them by the power/grade of the upgrade? Do you look to other similar games? Do you wait till you have all the layout for all your levels and then choose acordingly?
liliththepale
Banned
Some of it depends on complexity. Certain moves are harder to perform and only useful in already difficult situations. Some powers obviate or upgrade earlier powers, so obviously those should come later.
If you're going to scale them by power, I would put it on a bell curve. That way the awesome power ups that make the game feel like it finally truly opened up come somewhere in the middle, not at the end when there's hardly any game left.
Friends in AliasxD
Started working on may user interface again....
You should share moire often!
BomberMouse
Member
I see what you did there...
GAH YOU'RE MAKING ME WANT TO PLAY IT
Hopefully I'll have something substantial to show IndieGAF soon. My mediocrity will be known to all
Thanks guys!
To address that question, honestly, I think when it comes to making this type of game there's not necessarily a right way to do it, but I'd definitely suggest planning your powers and getting them working in some form BEFORE designing your full map. Imagine what the game will be like to play, imagine your powers, make the powers work, then design the map and think about what points you want to cordon off for each power.
I'm getting a bit tired of overly relying on this sort of "can go here or can't based on a power" metroidvania stuff, though. I mean, it's fine sometimes, but designing the whole game around this I feel is getting kind of old. Something often feels kind of stale or artificial about this (for me) when it's overly relied on as structure.
I have a feeling I'll be drifting towards opening maps to more "you could go here any time you want, but it'll be hard as fuck if you go too soon" as opposed to "you can, and therefore must, go to this place once you have this power" as I do this more. "Hard locks" by power to control certain aspect of game flow are fine, but I don't want to overly rely on it. It feels more exciting if you aren't sure whether or not you "should" be in an area. I love that feeling when I play a game.
Incidentally, I also want to find clever ways to make a map feel like a "home", like a place, by finding interesting ways to make the same locations visited and the same locations interesting to visit. That's one of my design goals next time I make a game -- To have the user going through the same areas but have it feel purposeful and interesting.
liliththepale
Banned
For me, that depends on how useful the power is outside of gating mechanisms. Dashing and mid-air jumps are great powers that enhance mobility in almost all situations, so they're great for that. What I don't particularly care for is "this bomb/weapon isn't the right type to break through this door/rubble", because then it's no better than a lock and key.
I'm guilty of some of this in my current game, (there are some walls that can be removed with anything, others that require a certain other thing, and no reason outside of "video games") but doing the current game has given me ideas about what I'd like to do next time.
I think a more open ended goal sounds interesting. I'm sure I have a very idealized memory of Metroid 2, since I haven't played it since I was 10, but the idea that you go out and your goal is to kill all 100 Metroids all over the map, and do it however you can in whatever order you want, sounds like the more exciting way to design a game (speaking in broad terms).
I realize Metroid 2 may be more structured and linear than I remember it being, which is why I dare not play it again and ruin my child-like fascination with it.
liliththepale
Banned
Different strokes for different folks. Certainly "every item is awesome" is limiting as well. This is the trap that Bloodborne fell into, and a lot of people prefer the diversity of items in Dark Souls even though much of that is wading through shit.
Not that I'm saying make shit power ups, but they don't all have to be the awesome. The game I'm working on has three power ups in total, earned between the four worlds (compare to the warp rooms in Crash Bandicoot 3), whereas a game like Axiom Verge has a couple dozen different power ups. Then you have a game like Ori which has five main powers I think and a couple dozen optional powers.
There are lots of valid routes to take.
Not that I'm saying make shit power ups, but they don't all have to be the awesome. The game I'm working on has three power ups in total, earned between the four worlds (compare to the warp rooms in Crash Bandicoot 3), whereas a game like Axiom Verge has a couple dozen different power ups. Then you have a game like Ori which has five main powers I think and a couple dozen optional powers.
There are lots of valid routes to take.
I like variety and items/equipment of varying levels of usefulness. That's something I actually love. Gives you options, ways to express yourself, ways to play the game how you want. Makes the world feel more real. Incidentally, I've rebuked Bloodborne over and over for its streamlining of stuff like this.
I'm just sort of growing weary of Metroidvanias and how I feel so many of them feel as if they allow fake freedom. You can go where you want, but not really, you really have to go along this predetermined path that is orchestrated by the order at which you acquire the power ups and the highly arbitrary way they're utilized in the level design. Again, I'm guilty of this too in my game, but next time things will be approached a bit differently.
liliththepale
Banned
Well it's a lot easier to design things that way, so it's an easy trap. Personally, I enjoy it as long as there's freedom within each segment, even if you can't choose the order of the segments.
Since they are using Unity I imagine they use something like additive level loading. Source: my ass.
There is a way to find out but I'm not going to mention it here :X
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