The art I chose for Hyrum didn't even have a green head. Drove me nuts.
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GAF MAFIA |OT| Season 4 Review Thread | "YES, SOMEHOW I AM THE PROBLEM HERE"
- Thread starter YesNOnoNOYes
- Start date
The art I chose for Hyrum didn't even have a green head. Drove me nuts.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
ok so i assume we're all done with this review thread now?
to recap, i captured the minutes here:
if i need to add any other points as a note for the future let me know
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on another note, please check the second post. we have now nine games submitted with one additional one in the pipeline from scrafty (theme is bloodborne)
that means the overseer team will need to assess those submitted games and make a decision which one will run for S5. reviewing things will take time as there will be back and forth adjustments to the game designs, so i think it'd be a good time now to appoint them overseers
crab, the moderator's chat has sort of come up with the following names for the panel of overseers: Ourobolus, nin1000, retroMG.... and yourself?
i also note royal flush and squidy volunteered to help out on that front, but well, someone needs to make a call on that, at some point in time. but i just thought i should pointed out these things. yeenz never ignore anyone :>
to recap, i captured the minutes here:
if i need to add any other points as a note for the future let me know
-
on another note, please check the second post. we have now nine games submitted with one additional one in the pipeline from scrafty (theme is bloodborne)
that means the overseer team will need to assess those submitted games and make a decision which one will run for S5. reviewing things will take time as there will be back and forth adjustments to the game designs, so i think it'd be a good time now to appoint them overseers
crab, the moderator's chat has sort of come up with the following names for the panel of overseers: Ourobolus, nin1000, retroMG.... and yourself?
i also note royal flush and squidy volunteered to help out on that front, but well, someone needs to make a call on that, at some point in time. but i just thought i should pointed out these things. yeenz never ignore anyone :>
spiders have 8 eights for a reasons :3
64 what?
Hyperactivity
Banned
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
oww oww
mah legs~
damn u rebelz
imma shut u all down with my super-hyper-death-star-version-four-that-is-bigger-than-the-last-one
jes' wach' me u foolz
mah legs~
damn u rebelz
imma shut u all down with my super-hyper-death-star-version-four-that-is-bigger-than-the-last-one
jes' wach' me u foolz
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
- Encrypting messages should be forbidden
---
On another note, I want to shed light on something that bothered me back then:
El Topo "I'll be extremely busy"
and
El Topo dropping out
Without the reset he would've dropped out in the middle of the game, which was predictable. Personally I hate to see players being replaced because it can change the whole game. If you know you can't put in the effort or you'll be indisposed, don't join a game. Maybe it is just me, because everybody seemed cool with it. Just wanted to mention it.
Of course there are times unforeseeable things happen in life and RL always has priority over some free time forum game, so that's a completely different matter.
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Also I'm a big supporter of not changing ongoing countdowns. Day start and ends will vary and early starts are always welcomed, no problem with that, but building up anticipation and postponing an hour before the original countdown runs out is sort of depressing
Also I'm a big supporter of not changing ongoing countdowns. Day start and ends will vary and early starts are always welcomed, no problem with that, but building up anticipation and postponing an hour before the original countdown runs out is sort of depressing
I'm against early or late starts in all honesty. Night time is boring for some and I get that, but that is time that scum chat, masons, gossips, lovers, whatever do have to talk and talking while the game is not being actively played is different than discussing things on the fly while new developments are occurring.
Hyperactivity
Banned
early starts are TERRIBLE
Late starts might be required for properly sorting through night actions
too bad so sad in the 2nd one
Late starts might be required for properly sorting through night actions
too bad so sad in the 2nd one
It should just be a rule that night actions have to be locked in an hour beforehand. An hour should be plenty of time to figure out how night actions interact (should know this beforehand anyway
) and players should know better than to be sending in commands at the buzzer.Blargonaut
Banned
I choose to be more of a test pilot than an analyst, but
A parting comment... Season 4 totes felt like a speedrun session, pretty good yet pretty hasty
In the Potterverse game, I know I waspartly *cough* responsible for this upcoming point but a lot of Season 4's gameplay felt to me as revolving excruciatingly around unprovoked Role-claims
emphasis pls
Dear Players, kindly remember dat Spiderman quote, k. Sometimes, the illusion of power can be more practically powerful than any actual Role assignment. It's a role you're playing! The scrub-tiers on either side of you don't need the truth to get them talking. THEY DUNNO SHIT. If you can't break it, fake it
That goes for prospective hosts in their worldbuilding flavour too, I guess!
I look forward to seeing what's in store for S5
Particularly with the Avalon experiment
And here's to WAAAAAYY more recruits, because I'm super hella fatigued of all your ol' familiar-ass mugs
btw S5 is the Season a GAF mod will join us, I feel it
See you next mission!
edit: Could I be added to the Avalon spec thread, please? I mean, not that I'll comment or anything >_>
edit 2: Actually, wasn't Amirox a player in S1?
A parting comment... Season 4 totes felt like a speedrun session, pretty good yet pretty hasty
In the Potterverse game, I know I was
emphasis pls
Dear Players, kindly remember dat Spiderman quote, k. Sometimes, the illusion of power can be more practically powerful than any actual Role assignment. It's a role you're playing! The scrub-tiers on either side of you don't need the truth to get them talking. THEY DUNNO SHIT. If you can't break it, fake it
That goes for prospective hosts in their worldbuilding flavour too, I guess!
I look forward to seeing what's in store for S5
Particularly with the Avalon experiment
And here's to WAAAAAYY more recruits, because I'm super hella fatigued of all your ol' familiar-ass mugs
btw S5 is the Season a GAF mod will join us, I feel it
See you next mission!
edit: Could I be added to the Avalon spec thread, please?
I mean, not that I'll comment or anything >_>edit 2: Actually, wasn't Amirox a player in S1?
How bad is the ban if I get them lynched?
1 week for every day that the game lasts from the lynch.
Pushing for that day 1 lynch. Let's go.
Mod is assigned the role of lynch bomb. Mixes it up a bit and turns it into a ban bomb.
Blargonaut
Banned
...did I say test pilot
Number of player slots for the game: 23
People who have been told about, consulted, or hinted information about your set-up: no one
Theme: [REDACTED]
Game Category: to be determined
No promises. There's a lot of work to be done on it yet balance-wise, but expect a more, uh, classy game, with a very simple gimmick available to all players from its start.
edit: TY for adding it to the list, yeeny!
Number of player slots for the game: 23
People who have been told about, consulted, or hinted information about your set-up: no one
Theme: [REDACTED]
Game Category: to be determined
No promises. There's a lot of work to be done on it yet balance-wise, but expect a more, uh, classy game, with a very simple gimmick available to all players from its start.
edit: TY for adding it to the list, yeeny!
I think this would lend a certain thrill to the game, actually, especially if it was randomized.
Let's say we all agree that lynchings risk bannings beforehand. It'd be like playing internet Russian Roulette.
Blargonaut
Banned
Blargonaut
Banned
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
I enjoyed Harry Potter very much. There were some minor problems which could be improved, but Salva and Nin were great and did everything to make this a very pleasent game. Again thank you very much guys!
- Encrypting messages should be forbidden
---
On another note, I want to shed light on something that bothered me back then:
El Topo "I'll be extremely busy"
and
El Topo dropping out
Without the reset he would've dropped out in the middle of the game, which was predictable. Personally I hate to see players being replaced because it can change the whole game. If you know you can't put in the effort or you'll be indisposed, don't join a game. Maybe it is just me, because everybody seemed cool with it. Just wanted to mention it.
Of course there are times unforeseeable things happen in life and RL always has priority over some free time forum game, so that's a completely different matter.
---
Also I'm a big supporter of not changing ongoing countdowns. Day start and ends will vary and early starts are always welcomed, no problem with that, but building up anticipation and postponing an hour before the original countdown runs out is sort of depressing
thanks gorlakie, i'll add the encryption thingo on to the minutes and good pick up about committing to play only when you have the time for it. i agree~
Blargonaut
Banned
hmmm
Actually, I think I'll slate my [REDACTED] game for Season 5.5 or 6, as there are enough game-runners for the upcoming S5 already
Actually, I think I'll slate my [REDACTED] game for Season 5.5 or 6, as there are enough game-runners for the upcoming S5 already
* scum should post at least once per night fase in the scum chat, just like how everyone is expected to post at least once during the day fase.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
Phase.
I feel like a jerk correcting a mistake knowing it's not his primary language.
Seriously, though, THIS. If you are in scum chat and not communicating with your partners, you deserve to lose.
Indeed, you deserve to lose, but that means your teammates will also lose which really sucks for them
Don't worry, I also feel that you are a jerk
Hyperactivity
Banned
I see that GAFIA is agreed on lynching the first mod that joins us XD
I guess now we just wait
I guess now we just wait
ScraftyDevil
Banned
I don't think any of the games this season were particularly unbalanced. Some lucky/unlucky breaks might've given the illusion of imbalance but technically speaking they all seemed sound.
Terrabyte20xx
Junior Wrestlemania XXX Champion
The truth is you can have the greatest balence of all time, but someone will always do something you didn't account for.
you would be wrong then.
This is not an argument against making games balanced.
Hyperactivity
Banned
I would seriously disagree, but it's already been covered in this thread
I've been thinking of volunteering as a kind of game tester. Not like a veteran saying X is flawed because of Y, but going through all the scenarios and asking questions to help creators tackle unforeseen consequences or unclear mechanics.
The latter crops up every now and then where the creators have a vision, but don't communicate it in a way the player understand (my immediate thought was the double lynch in NV and the map in DR).
I think maybe being sent individual PMs (role and spell) and day updates (when someone activates a universal ability like double night kill for scum) first so I'm not "blinded" by already knowing how things work behind the scenes. Standard stuff is obviously redundant.
I still want to play a game though, so I don't want to volunteer for all S5 games.
It's funny because (I think) you are still talking about Night Vale but HP was really the only one with huge issues.
I am not JUST talking about NV but NV was massively flawed in it's own way.
Terrabyte20xx
Junior Wrestlemania XXX Champion
I'm not saying that, what I am saying is that a percieved imbalance is not always due to the set up, sometimes the doc, the back up doc, and the back up back up doc die first.
Eh, I'll disagree. HP definitely had some balance issues, and while I think Night Vale had some issues, they weren't as crucial to scum's loss as much as the communication/play of scum. Woof2 was mostly balanced, though the gossip arsonist, while funny, probably shouldn't have been in play.
I think the way the play was going in Night Vale we would have lost with a balanced game but I think the game was more or less unwinnable for scum given two competent teams.
Part of it was also luck (Mazre selecting Sorian for chat), and some was also error from the mod's part (Sorry, Retro. Shit happens).
Hyperactivity
Banned
Gonna interject and say (haven't read either Star Wars or the OG game), Animal Crossing and Election were, imo, the most balanced games we've had.
So yeah
Didn't follow Night Vale too closely, only sorta know the set-up
It was very similar to Animal Crossing. Town got the Cop instead of Scum, but Scum got one of town's Gossips and a Godfather.
It also got a scum team that didn't coordinate or communicate, a hidden partner that antagonized his teammates, and a really solid town lineup. Oh, and yes a rookie gamerunner who did screw something up.
I've accepted responsibility for the things I did wrong, (Sorry again, Mazre, that really was my bad,) but Palmer, Ouro, Launchpad, and Yeeny all looked at the game at various stages, and at the time, they cleared it to run.
I'm not gong to say NV was perfect, but it was far from awful. Perhaps we should now move forward and fix future mistakes, rather than concentrating on old ones.
That's going back a ways. I'm going from memory here.
We had some sort of weird grid structure
Town:
2 gossips that were space limited, which gives the idea that they're both town-sided credence
Someone who could activate a double vote as a roommate with scum
Someone who denied a night kill after being night killed
An even night immune player (who triggered an action on the night they were immune)
An odd night immune player ^^
two people who could detect nearby activity.
Mafia:
Someone who activated an additional night kill after being lynched
A role-cop who was roommates with a town power role
someone who is immune to being detected at night.
a lost partner (Darryl!!!!!!!!!!)
A lot of town powers depend on the board, the two gossips and the two light sleepers so we can see that the board acts as a balancing agent on the power of these roles but also provides legitimacy to their presence. IE a second gossip claiming is more likely to be believed as town thanks to the limitations imposed on the board. Even between them they don't have access to the entire pool of players. Likewise light sleepers can only detect nearby actions leaving certain players uncovered.
So what happens n1? mafia picks a target for invest and a target for kill. At worst they get something like hit odd night immune, and investigate someone with a power they don't understand like hoarder. there's one player immune each night so 1 out of all the kill targets seems like a low probability.
Meanwhile for town gossips invite a player each and???? not much happens on that front, mafia can fairly easily bullshit.
So as the game goes on what happens? It seems if you don't hit the light sleepers early but kill targets around them they become increasingly capable of pinpointing town. Eventually the roommates get lynched because the game setup paints a giant target on them, doubly true once one the town roommate uses his one-time power making the cost of doing so much less for town.
So the key points of failure are the roomies and maybe the light sleepers? Gossip roles allow chat to continue at night but it's usefulness is marginal at best and depends vastly on the gossip player or other players in the gossip chat.
A lost partner is also a little weak in a game where, if I remember correctly, the playercount would potentially support 5 scum.
All in all I think it was a fairly town-sided game but not quite as town-sided as say Archer. Mafia can win the game but the roommates situation hurts them while a pair of light sleepers and various kill denying abilities draw the game out when they're already numerically behind. The other thing to note is that a significant amount of the balancing comes from the organization of the game board which kark put some thought into.
Yes please, agreed! We've talked about the old games to death, I'm tired of it, need to move on and make more fantastic games!