Xamtheking
Member
So you wanna give scum free candy?
I will admit the fake arso claim is possible, but I'd still like to hear from others.
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Gafia 2: The Bride of Gafia |Mafia OT| One Wedding, Many Funerals
- Thread starter RetroMG
- Start date
I will admit the fake arso claim is possible, but I'd still like to hear from others.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
What's the free candy? I prefer the pure scum hunt to having this wild card in play, if that is what he is.
Xamtheking
Member
I don't think he's scum off the claim alone
I'd rather find scum that has been acting scummy this game
Also
This discussion really has me fired up
Hey guys, what's happened while I was sleeping--
*Sees Camjo-Z claim*
Uhh... well this is my reaction at the moment.
*Sees Camjo-Z claim*
Uhh... well this is my reaction at the moment.
I mean, like seriously, wtf. Why the hell did Camjo claim Arsonist? There was some heat on him being possibly scum, but absolutely zero heat on being Arsonist. He was not in the suspect Arsonist list at all, since we assumed that Arsonist could only target people on the same table. Surely Camjo must have understood that people wouldn't be all happy with him claiming Arsonist, especially after so many players were trying to lynch AB, a potential arsonist candidate.
Something does not add up here. What was his motivation to claim Arsonist?
Something does not add up here. What was his motivation to claim Arsonist?
I do think it's interesting that Launch puts out the idea that AB the arsonist was blocked, only for the Arsonist claimer to come out and say they were blocked.
Claims so far:
Launchpad - Claims 1-shot table scrambler, power works during night, but command is sent during the day. Affects 1 table of Launch's choosing. Flavor is ScraftyDevil, power or alignment hasn't been proven yet.
Xamtheking - Claims 2-shot table scrambler, power works during day. Affects both tables. Flavor is SalvaPot, power is proven, alignment is not.
Terrabyte - Claims motion detector, is informed if there is acitivity in the seats next to him, but won't know if someone is targeting, or is being targeted. So far power or alignment is not proven. Claims Roytheone as the flavor.
nin1000 - Claims the same power, Ultron as flavor. Power nor alignment isn't proven so far.
Ourobolus - Claims drink giver, neutral survivor/cowlicker. Cabot as Flavor. Power confirmed, alignment is not.
Burbeting - Claims even night commuter, Crab as flavor. Power nor alignment isn't proven.
Camjo-Z - Claims Neutral Arsonist with no quota, needs to burn everyone. Kingkitty as flavor. Power and Alignment not proven.
--
Also:
Xamtheking & CzarTim claims being given a drink, n1 and n2 respectably. Ty4on and SalvaPot claim to have been given a drink in n3, claim that the flavor makes the drinks sound not dangerous.
Roytheone & Ourobolus claim to have been doused, n1 and n2 respectably. Seems to be connected to an arsonist, but we don't know for sure. Camjo claims to have been blocked in N3, so nobody was doused during the night.
---
People with no claim/has only soft claimed ordinary
01. AbsolutBro [m]
03. BananaSpacePrincess [f]
06. CzarTim [m]
07. Fireblend [m]
12. RobotNinjaHornets [m]
13. Roytheone [m]
14. Salvapot [m]
16. Timeaisis [m]
17. Ty4on [m]
Launchpad - Claims 1-shot table scrambler, power works during night, but command is sent during the day. Affects 1 table of Launch's choosing. Flavor is ScraftyDevil, power or alignment hasn't been proven yet.
Xamtheking - Claims 2-shot table scrambler, power works during day. Affects both tables. Flavor is SalvaPot, power is proven, alignment is not.
Terrabyte - Claims motion detector, is informed if there is acitivity in the seats next to him, but won't know if someone is targeting, or is being targeted. So far power or alignment is not proven. Claims Roytheone as the flavor.
nin1000 - Claims the same power, Ultron as flavor. Power nor alignment isn't proven so far.
Ourobolus - Claims drink giver, neutral survivor/cowlicker. Cabot as Flavor. Power confirmed, alignment is not.
Burbeting - Claims even night commuter, Crab as flavor. Power nor alignment isn't proven.
Camjo-Z - Claims Neutral Arsonist with no quota, needs to burn everyone. Kingkitty as flavor. Power and Alignment not proven.
--
Also:
Xamtheking & CzarTim claims being given a drink, n1 and n2 respectably. Ty4on and SalvaPot claim to have been given a drink in n3, claim that the flavor makes the drinks sound not dangerous.
Roytheone & Ourobolus claim to have been doused, n1 and n2 respectably. Seems to be connected to an arsonist, but we don't know for sure. Camjo claims to have been blocked in N3, so nobody was doused during the night.
---
People with no claim/has only soft claimed ordinary
01. AbsolutBro [m]
03. BananaSpacePrincess [f]
06. CzarTim [m]
07. Fireblend [m]
12. RobotNinjaHornets [m]
13. Roytheone [m]
14. Salvapot [m]
16. Timeaisis [m]
17. Ty4on [m]
We found the arsonist????
I don't believe for one second you really want to help town. I don't believe you have to kill everyone. Trusting you, an neutral with a killing power that is cornered, would be incredibly stupid. Hell, you even said that you want to help town and only kill people town is ok with, but literally a sentence before that you said you tried to kill me (without thinking I am scum) and Ourob (which is an almost confirmed pretty harmless neutral). That makes no sense. I don't trust you. I think you are partially lying about your power and your win condition and this is a gamble to help achieve it. You also confessed trying to kill me last night. So:
Vote: Camjo-Z
I will echo Tim his question though: you claim that hyper tried to douse himself, but that was not allowed and Retro RNG'd the douse and moved it to me, right? But if launch is speaking the truth, then he shuffled all actions and the douse moved from me to.....me? Let's ask statistics about this:
P(douse moves from hyper to me)=1/20= 0.05
P(douse moves to me thanks to launch)= 1/10= 0.1
P(douse moves to me first and then moves to me again)= 0.05 * 0.1= 0.005= 0,5 %
That has a 0,5% chance of happening. Yeah....no, just no.
Also, I don't think it needs to be said but we have seen people claim for less: If you are the roleblocker and blocked camjo-z, don't claim. Just stay hidden and keep up the good work!
So you were OK with him igniting tonight, killing one person that is seen by town by most and another one that is almost confirmed to be a pretty harmless neutral for now? What? Do you think I am scum? Do you think ourob is a danger for town at this point? Because else that makes no sense. This combined with your scum hunting which is almost exclusively based on your power results which are extremely vague, my slight town read on you dropped so hard it left a small crater.
Bananaspaceprincess
Neo Member
First of all, sorry for not being around the last couple of days. There was a national holiday in Germany and I was afk for most of the time. I have to add, that I'm never on mobile because my phone is ancient and it's a pain in the ass to even load the gafia side let alone post!
I understand your frustration with me but I might be able to be helpful after all...
I am generally a very low poster (proven in past games) I know that it looks like I am blending but I really am not doing that intentionally. As I said above I am never on mobile and that just makes it harder to follow the thread during the day when I am not at home.
So until yesterday I was called out a couple of times for being not active enough but never somebody actually started put pressure on me. That's because there were always more suspicious targets to go after. And they turned out to be exactly what they were called out to be!
Today that changed and I wondered what has changed now.... Oh right the lost partner was found! Mafia knows now that I am not the one they have to try to protect, right? So why not start pushing a lynch against BSP now. She is already suspicious and maybe we can use her as a protective shield... I know this is a "who to believe"- mind game here but I even if I get lynched this list will get you information for the day after!
All right then, who do we have here:
1. Burb -> he voted for me, claims commuter and trys to cover the fact that he wasn't calling Kalor out immediately after he claimed claiming commuter seems so odd I don't even know where to start. And of course it's on even nights so he just could not be the one who moved on N1... Could it be possible for Mafia and lost partner to be given the same fake claim?
2. Xam -> he is willing to vote me + he believes Camjos claim and he wants him to stay alive. Mafia would want a neutral who can help eliminate town to stay alive of course!! Plus he was the last one voting for Wee, when Wee was pretty much out of the game already. Not more to say there.
3. Fire -> Scum vibe not as strong as with the others but he is willing to vote me out (even with Camjo around)
4. CzarTim -> Same as Fire. Sees Camjo as bigger threat but is willing to vote me tomorrow.
I assume
there is only 2 -3 scum left. And I do think at least one or two are on that list!
Anyway for now my vote goes to Camjo
Vote: Camjo-Z
Well this:
Answer these questions please. But I think it's time for you to go anyway.
I understand your frustration with me but I might be able to be helpful after all...
I am generally a very low poster (proven in past games) I know that it looks like I am blending but I really am not doing that intentionally. As I said above I am never on mobile and that just makes it harder to follow the thread during the day when I am not at home.
So until yesterday I was called out a couple of times for being not active enough but never somebody actually started put pressure on me. That's because there were always more suspicious targets to go after. And they turned out to be exactly what they were called out to be!
Today that changed and I wondered what has changed now.... Oh right the lost partner was found! Mafia knows now that I am not the one they have to try to protect, right? So why not start pushing a lynch against BSP now. She is already suspicious and maybe we can use her as a protective shield... I know this is a "who to believe"- mind game here but I even if I get lynched this list will get you information for the day after!
All right then, who do we have here:
1. Burb -> he voted for me, claims commuter and trys to cover the fact that he wasn't calling Kalor out immediately after he claimed claiming commuter seems so odd I don't even know where to start. And of course it's on even nights so he just could not be the one who moved on N1... Could it be possible for Mafia and lost partner to be given the same fake claim?
2. Xam -> he is willing to vote me + he believes Camjos claim and he wants him to stay alive. Mafia would want a neutral who can help eliminate town to stay alive of course!! Plus he was the last one voting for Wee, when Wee was pretty much out of the game already. Not more to say there.
3. Fire -> Scum vibe not as strong as with the others but he is willing to vote me out (even with Camjo around)
4. CzarTim -> Same as Fire. Sees Camjo as bigger threat but is willing to vote me tomorrow.
I assume
hope
Anyway for now my vote goes to Camjo
Vote: Camjo-Z
Well this:
Answer these questions please. But I think it's time for you to go anyway.
Camjo said:
-Hyper targets himself
-Retro chooses RNG target X
-Launch shuffles X to X'
-X' is doused
We don't know if Camjo is talking about X or X' and to me it seems weird to me for Retro to reveal that X. Retro could also just have skipped the whole ordeal and used the RNG target directly because Camjo's "choice" was RNG to begin with and RNG + RNG would be redundant.
You're also calculating the chance of him hitting you and only you. You could have asked the same question if anyone else on table 2 were doused. I think it's more relevant to ask ourselves how likely it is for Launch's switch to switch someone back to their own seat which is 10%. That doesn't count hitting table 1 because it's irrelevant. Then we wouldn't ask ourselves this question and it'd tell nothing about Launch's power.
Wait, weren't you very doubtful of Launch speaking the truth about his power? And on board with trusting Camjo? But when I present how unlikely scenario it is assuming Launch is speaking the truth, you suddenly go with the "camjo is lying" scenario and not the "Launch is lying" scenario? That's weird.
Retro should have 100 % revealed that X to hyper/camjo. If you RNG an input command for someone for whatever reason, you tell that person what the result was of that RNG. It would be weird for that person not to know the action he send in that night, wouldn't it? That the target got RNG'd again after that because of some role is irrelevant to that. Hell, it may even make it MORE IMPORTANT to tell hyper/camjo their original target, since they can't figure it out themselves thanks to Launch his role. Their original X target is information they have a right to, and can use to figure out if Launch is lying or not, it is not irrelevant information at all. Denying them that would be weird and unfair. And I don't think Retro is unfair (but he is weird
Yes, I was. I don't believe launch.
Also, you are right we can ask that question for everyone on table 2. So let's do that shall we?
P(someone on table 2 gets hit with first RNG)= (10/20)=0.5
P(then that person gets hit with the second RNG too)= 1/10= 0.1
P(someone at table 2 gets hit with the first RNG and then with the second RNG)= 0.05= 5 %
Still very unlikely.
P(someone on table 2 gets hit with first RNG)= (10/20)=0.5
P(then that person gets hit with the second RNG too)= 1/10= 0.1
P(someone at table 2 gets hit with the first RNG and then with the second RNG)= 0.05= 5 %
Still very unlikely.
That's not an answer to my question why you suddenly go for the "camjo is lying" scenario.
This is also not an answer to my question WHY you would be ok with that.
You are responding to my questions, but not actually answering them.
Because Its OK in my book for you guys to die. And because I see that there is no other scenario than a camjo lynch at this point. He could have just shut up and not told anything. But he did and that's his own fault.
No one said this would be pretty Roy. You should know that. I still think we would be better with an Timeasis lynch since my D1 readings are still up in the air. But no one seems to care.
The camjo kill is OK for now since I know he moved on D2 and put heat him him aswell the last day. He either is the arsonist or he is he mafia goon who did the kill d2.
The camjo kill is OK for now since I know he moved on D2 and put heat him him aswell the last day. He either is the arsonist or he is he mafia goon who did the kill d2.
Why were you pro-camjo earlier today, though?
He told me his plan yesterday. Me and Bronx were for the plan since he said he would ignite this night. With Ouro and Roy not in the game it would have been easier to try to make this thing work. He claimed and i still though It could work. Well the backlash was to be expected but what made me rethink everything was that he got blocked. Up to this point there was no one who claimed to have been blocked. So I think he is not telling the truth about him really being the arsonist.
If he is thought. It's pretty dumb camjo. Sorry but that claim was dumb.
Would have been a pretty funny experiment but town is being town and wants to win safe. I understand that and respect it.
The claim that he got blocked is interesting. My first reaction was to think that the roleblocker would be scum, but now I'm not so sure. What bothers me most is that Camjo got seemingly blocked. Until he claimed, it seemed like most people were agreeing on either AB, Czar or possibly Launch being the arsonist, so it would have been most logical for the blocker to target those people. Yet, if we assume Camjo is not lying, Camjo was targeted.
Retro should have 100 % revealed that X to hyper/camjo. If you RNG an input command for someone for whatever reason, you tell that person what the result was of that RNG. It would be weird for that person not to know the action he send in that night, wouldn't it? That the target got RNG'd again after that because of some role is irrelevant to that. Hell, it may even make it MORE IMPORTANT to tell hyper/camjo their original target, since they can't figure it out themselves thanks to Launch his role. Their original X target is information they have a right to, and can use to figure out if Launch is lying or not, it is not irrelevant information at all. Denying them that would be weird and unfair. And I don't think Retro is unfair (but he is weird
Caaaaaamjooooo! Did you get a note of whom you ''''''''''''''''''''''''targeted''''''''''''''''''''''''?
Camjo had a lot of suspicion on him of being scum though. Maybe the roleblocker wanted to go for blocking scum instead of going for the arsonist?
I did. My day where I have to rest gets bumped a day earlier.
Xamtheking
Member
Are you notified when this happens?
I already told everybody my motivation. It's foolproof since I can't douse and ignite at the same time. There's no way I'll manage to douse everybody while also igniting before everyone realizes they were doused and lynches me first. It's literally impossible for me to "cheat" town at this point. Like, even if I did ignite at some point, it'd be totally pointless since I 100% can't win with mafia, where I can at least attempt a cheesy ending with town.
Heck, why do you think I was going after Ouro yesterday, or why I was going to ignite today? He's claimed my exact role, except it's way easier since he gives two drinks a night and doesn't hurt anybody. I was like "now why the fuck are there two neutrals who have the same win condition, but one has to work way harder to get it?" It seemed more than a little scummy.
No, what's stupid is how town is trying to turbo an arso who's offering to townside. Like, I'm literally doing all I can to assist and people are still forcing me to turn into the unhelpful neutral by wasting today's lynch. Maf are delighted that you'll have squandered a day of discussion on this shit and given them another free kill, so congrats on that.
What are you even talking about? So you did all that math to prove that I'm lying, but don't even question why I would choose to come up with the most convoluted fucking explanation possible for the D1 douse instead of just saying "Hyper targeted someone at Table B and it hit roy"? No critical thinking to be found here, I swear.
Target gets notified of the douse so no, I don't get a confirmation. I just wait to see it in the thread.
Xamtheking
Member
Camjo, town has tunnel vision so hard we underground now
Like
So hard
Like
So hard
I am notified if I accidentally made myself drink (I asked), but it hasn't happened, because tonight is my first break and it hasn't changed since the beginning of the game.
four legs good two legs bad
You could have claimed being doused today knowing full well that your ignite didn't go through so no one should have been doused.
Did Retro reply with something like:
"Because you can't target yourself I RNG'd your target"
Or did you deduce that yourself?
You mean like how you were going to give scum a free kill yesterday by killing me?
I could have claimed doused, but I'd rather help town than just try to hide some more and kill everybody while other townies get lynched for being suspected arsonists. I know, inconceivable, liar, blah blah blah whatever. Also, I already told nin yesterday that I was arso before I knew that I'd be blocked today, so I couldn't very well change my tune now.
I wasn't a replacement yet when roy was doused. I don't know if Hyper got notified, he sent me a catch up PM but his word on the subject were (paraphrased) "you'll see Roy was hit today, I decided to roll with it".
already explained why i was going to ignite in the post you just quoted, please read.
You should be able to verify that with retro. Any pm Hyper got regarding his targets, you should have gotten when you subbed in.
And yes, I saw that you were willing to sacrifice me because you thought Ourob may be lying about his win condition. So you took the risk of giving scum a free kill because you didn't trust a neutral claim. I am willing to risk giving scum a free kill since I don't trust your claim.
Forgot about that gossip, but play2win and all that.
That second paragraph tho.... Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Interesting
Like Roy said, get Retro to confirm if it functioned as if you had effectivly targeted Roy and how much you're allowed to know about that.
It isn't that easy. If we extrapolate from Kalor's role we see a hint of passive town roles and most normal roles (doctor, cop, blocker, tracker) will need a second source to figure out if their targets were switched. The only evidence we have against Launch comes from less conventional, neutral roles and even then it's not conclusive because X can switch to itself ~10% of the time.
Current vote count:
camjo-z (6) WARNING: Three votes to majority!
ourobolus 2359
launchpadmcq 2360
timeaisis 2372
roytheone 2408
bananaspaceprincess 2410
nin1000 2413
launchpadmcq (2)
terrabyte20xx 2275
nin1000 2343 (2413)
absolutbro 2364
czartim (1)
xamtheking 2315
bananaspaceprincess (1)
burbeting 2327
timeasis (0)
nin1000 2291 (2343)
absolutbro (0)
launchpadmcq 2296 (2360)
The following players do not have an active vote:
Camjo-Z
CzarTim
Fireblend
Salvapot
Seath
Ty4on
Due to the US holiday, I will be unavailable for most of the day. If majority occurs, I will leave it to the other mods, (Sorian, Palmer, Swamped, etc) to either end the day or wait for me to become available.
camjo-z (6) WARNING: Three votes to majority!
ourobolus 2359
launchpadmcq 2360
timeaisis 2372
roytheone 2408
bananaspaceprincess 2410
nin1000 2413
launchpadmcq (2)
terrabyte20xx 2275
absolutbro 2364
czartim (1)
xamtheking 2315
bananaspaceprincess (1)
burbeting 2327
timeasis (0)
absolutbro (0)
The following players do not have an active vote:
Camjo-Z
CzarTim
Fireblend
Salvapot
Seath
Ty4on
Due to the US holiday, I will be unavailable for most of the day. If majority occurs, I will leave it to the other mods, (Sorian, Palmer, Swamped, etc) to either end the day or wait for me to become available.
Xamtheking
Member
Ooooh, we have turbo warnings now. I love this new tech.
*starts slow clapping*
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
There's just something really fishy about this whole roleclaim... I just don't buy it. I still think AB could be the arso.
I mean, let's say you're the roleblocker, right? You probably want to intercept the arso, so you go for the likeliest suspects based on what was discussed in the previous day phase (AB or Tim). You don't go for Camjo unless you are deaf to all the discussion we've had in this game, or if you have a really strong vendetta against him for some reason. I mean, if it's table restricted, ok I would understand. The RB is sitting in table 1. But he still has a bunch of other options there that are sketchy (albeit, Camjo was the sketchiest) that I find it improbable that the RB would target Camjo, or at least as probable as others. But again, that's an if. I would be shocked if the RB is table restricted in this game; it would not feel very balanced because he/she wouldn't be able to help half the players at any given time. I would expect something extra to give them a leg up.
What's even stranger is that he came up with this plan with Bronx and Nin to not ignite, and then he tries to ignite. Like, what? Even if he's telling the truth, how do you trust this guy? lol
Really, this looks like a half-cocked fake roleclaim that he spun up to get us to move on from the arso and ignore him, seeing as how the arso had doused 2 non-scums already. He saw that no one had claimed to be doused then ran with it. However, it backfired because we don't want to lose Roy or Ouro and the arso isn't a role we can just trust with no reservations.
I mean, let's say you're the roleblocker, right? You probably want to intercept the arso, so you go for the likeliest suspects based on what was discussed in the previous day phase (AB or Tim). You don't go for Camjo unless you are deaf to all the discussion we've had in this game, or if you have a really strong vendetta against him for some reason. I mean, if it's table restricted, ok I would understand. The RB is sitting in table 1. But he still has a bunch of other options there that are sketchy (albeit, Camjo was the sketchiest) that I find it improbable that the RB would target Camjo, or at least as probable as others. But again, that's an if. I would be shocked if the RB is table restricted in this game; it would not feel very balanced because he/she wouldn't be able to help half the players at any given time. I would expect something extra to give them a leg up.
What's even stranger is that he came up with this plan with Bronx and Nin to not ignite, and then he tries to ignite. Like, what? Even if he's telling the truth, how do you trust this guy? lol
Really, this looks like a half-cocked fake roleclaim that he spun up to get us to move on from the arso and ignore him, seeing as how the arso had doused 2 non-scums already. He saw that no one had claimed to be doused then ran with it. However, it backfired because we don't want to lose Roy or Ouro and the arso isn't a role we can just trust with no reservations.
I love you too Nin <3
Xamtheking
Member
Launch, did AB break his hand giving you a knuckle sandwich to the face?
You're so adamant about him being the arso.
You're so adamant about him being the arso.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
I said 'could'.