Game Dev "Nintendo's out here making people look like fools on hardware that's literally tenfold what the Switch is"

Gojiira said:
You can have systems at the expense of texture quality, lighting, performance, etc etc everything has a cost.
Theres a reason TotK looks like a PS2 game…
If devs wanted to do a physics heavy game on current consoles they absolutely could. While its a marvel I wish people would stop the hyperbole, yes its cool but its no more impressive than say the water physics Hydrophobia had like a decade ago, or the seemless dimension hopping in Rift Apart more recently.
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I think people are saying that they prefer when more focus is put on these systems rather than texture quality, lighting, and performance. Of course, Nintendo could sacrifice less with better hardware, but it is like other games on more powerful systems put all of their eggs on the latter and skimp out on interesting gameplay systems. Most gameplay revolves around stats and watching numbers go up. Of course, Nintendo isn't the only one who are making games with interesting systems, nor are they the first.
 
NeverYouMind said:
For someone that plays Action RPGs for combat like me and is averse to puzzles, TOTK mechanics suck ass. For someone that loves platforming games, ToTK mechanics suck ass.

ToTK is a one-trick pony. It does that trick really well, but like card tricks, I couldn't give a rat's ass about it.
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Lol, cute.
 
Silver Wattle said:
Zelda does nothing new, the developers just invested time and effort into making the physics a gameplay mechanic, again nothing we haven't seen before.
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You're writing it off as if we get games like this all the time.
Sony just put out an entire show of GaaS movie trailers, and cinematic big budget movie games with zero gameplay.
Microsoft just shit out Red Fall. AAA third parties doing dumbed down copy/paste gameplay.

Nobody else in the AAA console business even bothers with physics, or letting players figure things out on their own.

Nintendo deserves every bit of credit for still making real videogames. They're on an entirely different level than Sony and Microsoft.
 
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I don't see what's so impossible on it.its called coding and good team that can make it work. Consoles nowadays don't try to innovate because it costs money so we don't see what they could do
 
hussar16 said:
I don't see what's so impossible on it.its called coding and good team that can make it work. Consoles nowadays don't try to innovate because it costs money so we don't see what they could do
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Thats why we have a bunch of games like ToK around… Also the game have 96 on MC and 10M in 3 days… And every game dev/Programmers are praising the game, trust me… Make a game like this is NOT an easy feat at all, top quality coding.
 
This is also the second iteration of a game engine, so they had time to add a bunch of new features and content.

Imagine if they make a third game.
 
They just need to improve the combat system, boss and enemies quality, story presentation and better rewards for exploration to have an almost perfect game with the sequel (hopefully in a much more powerful machine).
 
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NeverYouMind said:
For someone that plays Action RPGs for combat like me and is averse to puzzles, TOTK mechanics suck ass. For someone that loves platforming games, ToTK mechanics suck ass.

ToTK is a one-trick pony. It does that trick really well, but like card tricks, I couldn't give a rat's ass about it.
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I hate mashing buttons aka action RPGs
 
Fredrik said:
That's another reason why they all look like fools now.
Remember this video?

That was 6 years ago, things would be even worse today. Games are more expensive to make but the AAA space hasn't evolved much at all in the last 6 years. Zelda has though. Most AAA games is just smoke and mirrors, pretty surface and nice animations, linear in structure, invisible walls or portals or well-produced cutscenes to mask that it's not really a cohesive fully functional game world.
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Damn, video shows well that Nintendo aims to create "game worlds", others are creating Hollywood sets in a game engine
 
Days like these... said:
I only have a switch that video was pretty jarring I figured ps5 would be doing same things as Zelda in terms of physics
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It's not a hardware limitation but that's Horizon Zero Dawn on PS4.
There is a second one:


I think the big difference in general in the AAA space is that there is an extreme focus on the surface, has been for like a decade or two. There were games on PS2 that did more things with physics than even 2023 games.
 
Krathoon said:
No. I am ALIVE!
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Good designers, you can have most advance tech but if you dont have good designers then they are not going take advantage of all that tech.

Horizon had budget, tech and resources and what exactly do with it? nothing other than making eye candy.


Same with Team ICO, on goddamn PS2 they made unbelievably interesting mechanics with impressive scale, good designers make impressive game even on low power machines.
 
Lots of salt and denial going on in this thread. It's understandable given where we are, as a lot of posters here obsess over graphics and power instead of things like mechanics, game design and content quality.
 
They gave them the time to polish it and make it all work. They literally spent an extra year on just that and had the first game as a starting point too.

We should all applaud this work. More publishers might do the same
 
It's not that other teams can't do this, they just choose to have another approach. Sandbox vs theme park design has been a theme for a long, long time. This is also why teams didn't just throwaway their designs after BotW came along. Very different design philosophies that usually don't align all that well. Now at least we have great games for both styles for those that like 'em.
 
lughnasadh123 said:
It's not that other teams can't do this, they just choose to have another approach. Sandbox vs theme park design has been a theme for a long, long time. This is also why teams didn't just throwaway their designs after BotW came along. Very different design philosophies that usually don't align all that well. Now at least we have great games for both styles for those that like 'em.
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there is clearly a more risky design and let's face it most games don't follow that high risk high reward model.

I personally play games for an interactive experience not just being on rails being pushed through a story.

TOtk is a sandbox but it also has a lot of toys in it that even the theme parks don't put in their games.
 
StueyDuck said:
Immersion is an extremely subjective thing. So your argument is that it makes you feel good?

I'm saying that rdr2 is technically more of an impressive game because it has lots of technical aspects that are far greater and far surpass anything in gaming, even totk. Which has nice physics and some building mechanics.

You may feel immersed sticking a fake penis on a plank but it's not technically anything special where as many have said prior. A multitude of pc/survival games have those elements of gameplay.
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For me RDR2's fatal flaw is that it has all these systems to make you feel like you're truly in a cowboy simulation and then it has these inconsistent world rule breaking implementations that spoil the feeling that you're really in that world, like legendary Beasts that are a pushover, hunting which looks like a skill activity but is too easy and key rewards which you should lose if you're careless but instead magically appear somewhere else.

You can disagree but my point was that TOTK's systems are incredibly consistent and never break immersion- in fact they enhance it....it's partly because the world itself is Sci fi fantasy but I've never once thought about putting it down while it came into my mind only a few hours into RDR2....After I was told I could pick up my lost pelt someplace I'd never heard off I turned the game off and never returned.

As pretty as RDR2 is...TOTK'S gameplay and immersion is far superior. My opinion. Nothing more.
 
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Marvel14 said:
For me RDR2's fatal flaw is that it has all these systems to make you feel like you're truly in a cowboy simulation and then it has these inconsistent world rule breaking implementations that spoil the feeling that you're really in that world, like legendary Beasts that are a pushover, hunting which looks like a skill activity but is too easy and key rewards which you should lose if you're careless but instead magically appear somewhere else.

You can disagree but my point was that TOTK's systems are incredibly consistent and never break immersion- in fact they enhance it....it's partly because the world itself is Sci fi fantasy but I've never once thought about putting it down while it came into my mind only a few hours into RDR2....After I was told I could pick up my lost pelt someplace I'd never heard off I turned the game off and never returned.

As pretty as RDR2 is...TOTK'S gameplay and immersion is far superior. My opinion. Nothing more.
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The consistency is the key. From the animation to the sound design. Everything system is working off each other.
 
"The things that Tears of the Kingdom is doing, it just shouldn't be possible on the Switch."

Terrible take. It implies that physics simulation for hundreds of NPCs, cars and other static/dynamic bodies in GTA IV on PS3 was run and solved by a very smart fairy.
Even though you can't glue two objects together in GTA IV you still have to "just" simulate a believable physical world.
 
MujkicHaris said:
"The things that Tears of the Kingdom is doing, it just shouldn't be possible on the Switch."

Terrible take. It implies that physics simulation for hundreds of NPCs, cars and other static/dynamic bodies in GTA IV on PS3 was run and solved by a very smart fairy.
Even though you can't glue two objects together in GTA IV you still have to "just" simulate a believable physical world.
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The level of interaction and possibilities isn't even close.

You have no physics manipulation tools in GTA.

The model is easier to predict and therefor less likely to break.

If you put an ultra hand ability in GTA and all the parts that are supposed to work it's highly unlikely it would work.

In fact in an interview this is basically exactly what they did to botw to get the tools into TOTk.

A developer made a car. It worked and they then gave those tools to the player.

This wouldn't have been possible if the system didn't already work in the original.

GTA doesn't have materials, weight, temperature etc etc
 
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StueyDuck said:
Immersion is an extremely subjective thing. So your argument is that it makes you feel good?

I'm saying that rdr2 is technically more of an impressive game because it has lots of technical aspects that are far greater and far surpass anything in gaming, even totk. Which has nice physics and some building mechanics.

You may feel immersed sticking a fake penis on a plank but it's not technically anything special where as many have said prior. A multitude of pc/survival games have those elements of gameplay.
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The whole RDR2 so called "immersion" breaks down when start mission and you have to do EXACTY what the game tells you do to by letter and if you do not the mission failed and whole wanted system is just down right doesn't make any sense.

RDR 2 want to be both linear cinematic game and open word simulation at the same time but those separate game design choice don't work together well. Most its called "immersion" is about graphics rather than actual game mechanics physics working together.

 
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daveonezero said:
The level of interaction and possibilities isn't even close.

You have no physics manipulation tools in GTA.

The model is easier to predict and therefor less likely to break.

If you put an ultra hand ability in GTA and all the parts that are supposed to work it's highly unlikely it would work.

In fact in an interview this is basically exactly what they did to botw to get the tools into TOTk.

A developer made a car. It worked and they then gave those tools to the player.

This wouldn't have been possible if the system didn't already work in the original.

GTA doesn't have materials, weight, temperature etc etc
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When you hit another car with yours, that isn't physics manipulation?

If you hit a guy and the solver throws him on street and a car hits him, that's not manipulation? Stacking cars and then shooting one to cause physical reaction isn't manipulation?

What? You need a special UI where you can drag the NPC by applying force with a cursor?
 
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daveonezero said:
there is clearly a more risky design and let's face it most games don't follow that high risk high reward model.

I personally play games for an interactive experience not just being on rails being pushed through a story.

TOtk is a sandbox but it also has a lot of toys in it that even the theme parks don't put in their games.
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I don't know if making a sequel that doubles down on success of their previous game is particularly risky. It sounds like a great strategy other devs do as well.

Very few of the open world games I've played has railed me through the story. Instead it's always been there at the peripheral when I want it with lots of times for me to go off and wander around, explore, quest, gather, and what not. The plus being there's a quest line to actually go through rather than being built to aimlessly wander around. I love having gameplay AND a solid story to experience. That's why I play games for.

TotK has more toys in it than theme park games exactly because it's a sandbox.
 
MujkicHaris said:
When you hit another car with yours, that isn't physics manipulation?

If you hit a guy and the solver throws him on street and a car hits him, that's not manipulation? Stacking cars and then shooting one to cause physical reaction isn't manipulation?

What? You need a special UI where you can drag the NPC by applying force with a cursor?
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It is but it is limited like I said.

The depth of the system is clearly not on the same level.

I'm saying if you put some tools in there the system would probably break. Maybe I'm wrong but are there modded videos of people making machines in gta?
 
Silver Wattle said:
Denial? About what exactly? Please go into detail.
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Oh let me count the ways:

  1. That a game with hardware less capable than last gen consoles has gameplay and technical systems and QA polish that critics, gamers and developers are considering superior to what is being produced by games this gen.
  2. That visual fidelity can be less important than gameplay and if it doesn't significantly detract from gameplay it doesn't matter enough to give the game a poor score or discredit it.
  3. That the gameplay in this game is excellent and 90% of gamers love it.
  4. That the game deserves 90-95%of the praise it's getting and is most likely GOTY and in contention for GOATG and GOAT.
  5. That they wish they had such a well received game on their hardware of choice this year, or indeed in some cases this gen.
I' m sure there are more but that's as specific as I can get.
 
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daveonezero said:
It is but it is limited like I said.

The depth of the system is clearly not on the same level.

I'm saying if you put some tools in there the system would probably break. Maybe I'm wrong but are there modded videos of people making machines in gta?
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You really missed the point of my original post. The author of video celebrates new Zelda physics like it's something impossible, alien and I just mentioned that GTA IV on way less powerful system delivered a full physics world simulation. Now, that was impressive and almost impossible.
 
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I think Nintendo probably hired this guy to pull it off. It is an amazing technical feat that how much they crammed into one single cartridge.
Although I am much more of a Sega fan growing up, I have to admit Nintendo really knows how to polish a game.
They got the talents, money - and also smart leadership who can make right decisions. Really a big Kudo to them.
 
I remember being blown away by the physics simulation in Half-Life 2 back in the day. I think Tears of the Kingdom somewhat crosses paths with HL2 with its gameplay elements and design.

Fluid simulation to be used in a gameplay mechanic could be cool. HL: Alyx had a nice graphical detail with the liquid in bottles:

 
Nooblet said:
Why Pokemon games seem to get the short end of the stick. Every other franchise run and play great.
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Nah fr the only franchise i really like from Nintendo and it has no quality 😂 haven't bought a main game after xy, only remakes for fun & nostalgia reasons.
 
There are games which do physics, or weather, or chemistry as well as Zelda.
There are also fully seamless open world
games with a size comparable to this Zelda (though not much...).
There are games where puzzles can be solved organically with various solutions making use of the mechanics of the game.
There are games with advanced gameplay mechanics which do not break down no matter how complex the contraptions are.

But there are no game doing ALL OF IT AT ONCE and on a 2015 mobile tech at that.

BOTW was seen as a landmark title when it released and one could have expected that other studios would try to scratch that itch given how successful it was. Yet, BOTW had no comparable game until TOTK which goes beyond the first game in every possible way.

It's ok to dislike those games, tastes aren't something needing justification. But there are objective aspects which can't be argued against in good faith, and the fact that Zelda TOTK is a technical marvel in one of those.
 
John Bilbo said:
I remember being blown away by the physics simulation in Half-Life 2 back in the day. I think Tears of the Kingdom somewhat crosses paths with HL2 with its gameplay elements and design.

Fluid simulation to be used in a gameplay mechanic could be cool. HL: Alyx had a nice graphical detail with the liquid in bottles:

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Pretty much.

Valve implements advanced physics mechanics and nobody bats an eye. Nintendo does it and everybody loses their mind.
 
Krappadizzle said:
It really is a remarkable technical achievement. The amount of content and just variety is incredible. I'm very VERY interested in even how this thing was made.
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Yes my friends TOTK has a deeper worlds than GTAV and waaaaaaaaaaaay better gameplay

Rockstar needs to work on their on foots gamepaly
 
Funny because I just got home from speaking to my friend who is lead engineer for a software company that makes systems for medical company. He also creates games on the side and he says the exact same thing. This shouldn't be possible.
 
[h3][/h3]

Even Video Game Developers Can't Believe the New Zelda Exists

The game's physics are impressive enough to fans. To video game makers, they're mind-boggling.
The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom 

The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom
May 26, 2023 at 3:00 PM EDT
Bloomberg

I like to imagine that during the development of the new game The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom, two Nintendo Co. employees had a conversation that went something like this:
Designer: We want to make a big, open world full of quests.
Programmer: Cool, we can do that.
Designer: Plus you can explore the skies.
Programmer: Awesome.
Designer: And the underground.
Programmer: Okay…
Designer: Also, we want to make it so you can launch yourself upward through any ceiling in the game.
Programmer: Tricky, but I think we can make that work.
Designer: And you can rewind time.
Programmer: How many engineers do we have for this?
Designer: And you can smash together almost any object in the game with realistic and unbreakable physics.
Programmer: What.
Designer: We need rockets.
Programmer: I quit.
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Tears of the Kingdom is a tremendous achievement — the type of video game that one can play for hundreds of hours without ever getting bored. It has also been a big success, selling more than 10 million copies in its first three days.
 
It's crazy how big TOTK and how much stuffs in teh game and how SMALL the file size..

Maybe devs should take their time and not rush games out and then follow it with a "were sorry" letter.
 
Fredrik said:
That's another reason why they all look like fools now.
Remember this video?

That was 6 years ago, things would be even worse today. Games are more expensive to make but the AAA space hasn't evolved much at all in the last 6 years. Zelda has though. Most AAA games is just smoke and mirrors, pretty surface and nice animations, linear in structure, invisible walls or portals or well-produced cutscenes to mask that it's not really a cohesive fully functional game world.
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Yep. Been saying this a while. Pretty environments with nice textures that don't react at all to the player or antagonists. They're just solid 3D paintings. Same goes for characters. We've got more polygons, realistic lighting, better textures and art direction and higher frames but game worlds have remained static prisons. Horizon has giant robots shoot you with massive cannons and it leaves no damage on you or the world around you. You hack and slash them with a blade and the best you get is a couple armour plates fly off.
 
Lmao some people here are really salty about all the praise Nintendo gets for making a legit Masterpiece that's recieving universal praise from everyone.
 
First and only warning. Don’t console war.
Who gives a crap how far Nintendo can push a over priced pos console. Guess what a Switch costs $300. A series S costs $300 and blows the crap out of a Switch.

Not hard to push trash tier graphics. The most amazing games were made 20 years ago. Its when devs got these modern day consoles they can't make anything good.
 
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