Game journalists think Little Mac is OP in Smash, publish actual articles about it

"Noob Killer" characters really are something that a developer has to take a good long look at when balancing a fighting game. For my purposes, I'd define a noob killer (NK) as a character that has a relatively simple to execute game plan and combines that with high effectiveness against players who are still learning game mechanics. High level play is not considered in this equation at all. I don't play smash, but this sounds like what Little Mac is from the descriptions in this thread.

NK characters can be very effective as "skill gate-keepers" to opening up high level play. Vanilla MvC3 Sentinal's Hyper Armor will punish the crap out of you if you are not patient and you just push buttons. He teaches you patience. Flowchart vanilla SFIV Ken teaches you the importance of bait. Make the opponent guess and commit to their high damage / high priority / long recovery move, then repeatedly punish them for it. So these NK characters are useful, right?

The tricky thing is that you want your game to sell, and to get any type of mass market players at the beginner and low intermediate stages still need to have fun. If the rookie ranks are populated with a massive percentage of a NK character who is frustrating to play against then players are going to desert the game in droves. That is why sometimes these characters need to get nerfed, even if they are not that powerful at high level. Gotta have the new players learn, but can't get them too frustrated by the process.
 
Mr.Monitor said:
I do agree that game journalists are generally incompetent idiots who suck at videogames, but this brings up an interesting question. Should Nintendo be balancing these games for hardcore players, or just for more general audiences?
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if Brawl was balanced around casual audiences they would've nerfed Ike

think about that
 
TheFightingFish said:
"Noob Killer" characters really are something that a developer has to take a good long look at when balancing a fighting game. For my purposes, I'd define a noob killer (NK) as a character that has a relatively simple to execute game plan and combines that with high effectiveness against players who are still learning game mechanics. High level play is not considered in this equation at all. I don't play smash, but this sounds like what Little Mac is from the descriptions in this thread.

NK characters can be very effective as "skill gate-keepers" to opening up high level play. Vanilla MvC3 Sentinal's Hyper Armor will punish the crap out of you if you are not patient and you just push buttons. He teaches you patience. Flowchart vanilla SFIV Ken teaches you the importance of bait. Make the opponent guess and commit to their high damage / high priority / long recovery move, then repeatedly punish them for it. So these NK characters are useful, right?

The tricky thing is that you want your game to sell, and to get any type of mass market players at the beginner and low intermediate stages still need to have fun. If the rookie ranks are populated with a massive percentage of a NK character who is frustrating to play against then players are going to desert the game in droves. That is why sometimes these characters need to get nerfed, even if they are not that powerful at high level. Gotta have the new players learn, but can't get them too frustrated by the process.
Click to expand...


Great, constructive post. I almost hate to admit it: but I mostly agree. I'd rather see resources from Nintendo make efforts to educate mainstream player bases to help them improve their gameplay and feel less entitled, though. That's a better, more long-term, morally significant solution in my eyes
 
Kimosabae said:
Great, constructive post. I almost hate to admit it: but I mostly agree. I'd rather see resources from Nintendo make efforts to educate mainstream player bases to help them improve their gameplay and del less entitled, though.
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Keits went into detail about how they had to rework Baz in Divekick because the original version just caused people to just not want to play the game.
 
kirblar said:
Keits went into detail about how they had to rework Baz in Divekick because the original version just caused people to just not want to play the game.
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Still have yet to play this game and still debate with myself whether or not I want to, every time someone mentions it.
 
People who say this are usually the people who play the game competitively (the NO FUN ALLOWED) way. No items, final destination only.

If you play that way, you're an idiot.

That's the boring way to play Smash. If you play it the way it's meant to be played, with items on and hectic shit everywhere, then you'd never complain about a character being over powered.
 
Unless you got a tiny range throw any dodge from anywhere if timed right will set you up nice for a throw into an Up Smash for juggle marathons on the Mac Attack.

Little Mac is fine. He teaches you how to play the game. Block, bait, dodge roll, whif punish shoot to extend juggles and don't forget to use grabs as launcher setups for other moves. No one else breaks a beginner player's bad habits as perfectly as Little Mac. If you play your tools fully he is not a problem. Just a very linear character you have to respect is going to force you to utilize more than just your offensive moves in a match. You don't respect what he is teaching you then you folks can't really respect complaints about how "good" Little Mac is. Upper Mid Tier at best. He has no off stage chase game and has to completely rely on offense and pressure. Break his momentum and he starts to come apart.
 
MiguelMexMIstery said:
Eh I dunno. I think Bowser is the who's most powerful. Like, I can KO two CPUs in the first 10 seconds of the match with him.
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Bowser is the most annoying. He recovers at 150% from smash attacks and comes right back in the level. Mac is strong and in 4player matches it easy to lose track of him then end up uppercutted but 1on1 he's easy.
 
Haziq said:
People who say this are usually the people who play the game competitively (the NO FUN ALLOWED) way. No items, final destination only.

If you play that way, you're an idiot.

That's the boring way to play Smash. If you play it the way it's meant to be played, with items on and hectic shit everywhere, then you'd never complain about a character being over powered.
Click to expand...

Can you demonstrate this with a researched argument like the way people can demonstrate when a character in overpowered in a "no fun allowed" setting? Or is this just a gut feeling based on contempt? (Can you also prove character balance doesn't get worse?)
 
Speaking of Samus, I played one online and it was extremely unfun to fight...just rolled, spammed missiles, charged, over, and over, and over. It made me want to quit.

The one Little Mac I played was basically the same. Just wasn't fun.

In both cases I was Alph, who really can't pick Pikmin on FD with both of them bearing down on me so that might've been why.
 
Haziq said:
People who say this are usually the people who play the game competitively (the NO FUN ALLOWED) way. No items, final destination only.

If you play that way, you're an idiot.

That's the boring way to play Smash. If you play it the way it's meant to be played, with items on and hectic shit everywhere, then you'd never complain about a character being over powered.
Click to expand...
The only right way to play smash is to turn off all items but pokeballs and to put the item drop rate on max.

I'm kidding of course, but it's hella fun
 
Haziq said:
People who say this are usually the people who play the game competitively (the NO FUN ALLOWED) way. No items, final destination only.

If you play that way, you're an idiot.

That's the boring way to play Smash. If you play it the way it's meant to be played, with items on and hectic shit everywhere, then you'd never complain about a character being over powered.
Click to expand...
If this is true, then please explain to me why so many guys who played almost exclusively FFAs, all items on, etc. complained about Ike in Brawl.

P.S. Very few actual competitive players are complaining about Little Mac.
 
Haziq said:
People who say this are usually the people who play the game competitively (the NO FUN ALLOWED) way. No items, final destination only.

If you play that way, you're an idiot.

That's the boring way to play Smash. If you play it the way it's meant to be played, with items on and hectic shit everywhere, then you'd never complain about a character being over powered.
Click to expand...

Are you being sarcastic or are you just being an ass?
 
Haziq said:
People who say this are usually the people who play the game competitively (the NO FUN ALLOWED) way. No items, final destination only.

If you play that way, you're an idiot.

That's the boring way to play Smash. If you play it the way it's meant to be played, with items on and hectic shit everywhere, then you'd never complain about a character being over powered.
Click to expand...

lmao how can a post be so wrong
 
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